Lord Duckhunter Posted 2 February, 2015 Share Posted 2 February, 2015 (edited) The incident happened right in front of where we sit - we sit in Row L so the view was excellent. Bertrand clearly went for and got the ball - it was never a red card as it was nota foul. That was the view of everyone around us who could see it clearly. Oliver is an idiot. Whether he got the ball or not is irrelevant in the modern game. You can get the ball and its a foul if the ref thinks you used excessive force or were reckless. Edited 2 February, 2015 by Lord Duckhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 2 February, 2015 Share Posted 2 February, 2015 Whether he got the ball or not is irrelevant in the modern game. Absolutely, it's what happens after you brush the ball with your laces that counts, if you clatter a player as he did then you're as likely as not to get sent off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 February, 2015 Share Posted 2 February, 2015 The incident happened right in front of where we sit - we sit in Row L so the view was excellent. Bertrand clearly went for and got the ball - it was never a red card as it was nota foul. That was the view of everyone around us who could see it clearly. Oliver is an idiot. He barely touched the ball To anyone that knows the game its a foul and showed plenty of intent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 February, 2015 Share Posted 2 February, 2015 if bertrand clearly touched the ball, how come the other fella had his knees taken out when the ball was on the deck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 2 February, 2015 Share Posted 2 February, 2015 Bad tackle. There had been a bit of needle between the two of them earlier and you can see Bertrand looking at him and timing his challenge to take him out. Silly boy. Ron didn't look too pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 2 February, 2015 Share Posted 2 February, 2015 if bertrand clearly touched the ball, how come the other fella had his knees taken out when the ball was on the deck? Suggest you watch the replay! Betrand's leg bounced up off the ball which is why he ended off taking the player high. A decade ago that would have been seen as a good tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 February, 2015 Share Posted 2 February, 2015 Suggest you watch the replay! Betrand's leg bounced up off the ball which is why he ended off taking the player high. A decade ago that would have been seen as a good tackle. but it is not a decade ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 2 February, 2015 Share Posted 2 February, 2015 but it is not a decade ago I know that but you were disputing the fact that he "clearly played the ball first!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 February, 2015 Share Posted 2 February, 2015 I know that but you were disputing the fact that he "clearly played the ball first!" he dived in hard, played the ball in a way that it took the player out completely from behind. in full speed, it looked red even the club are not bothering to dispute it. tells you something, that does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 wasnt a red card ever and quite stunned amount of morons on here who feel it was I'm quite stunned about the number of morons who don't know the laws of the game. http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_12_fouls_misconduct_en_47379.pdf Careless is a foul, reckless is a yellow card, with excessive force (dangerous) is a red card. Reckless is "acted with complete disregard of the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent" Excessive force is "far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent". It was unnecessarily forceful and never mind "in danger of", he actually injured the opponent, it's a red card every day of the week and has been since the laws were changed to say this about 18 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 Suggest you watch the replay! Betrand's leg bounced up off the ball which is why he ended off taking the player high. A decade ago that would have been seen as a good tackle. If he wasn't able to control where his leg went after glancing the ball he was pretty much meeting all the criteria for unnecessary force and dangerous. You can win the ball completely cleanly but if your follow through endangers an opponent it's a red. As for "a decade ago it would be a good challenge", tell that to Chris Marsden who was sent off for a two footer which finished a yard short of Patrick Vieira, based on his intent alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 The incident happened right in front of where we sit - we sit in Row L so the view was excellent. Bertrand clearly went for and got the ball - it was never a red card as it was nota foul. That was the view of everyone around us who could see it clearly. Oliver is an idiot. He's an idiot enforcing the laws completely accurately, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 Monk, I sit just to the right of the dugout and Monk had a go at him and Bertrand was shouting to Monk that he got the ball or went for the ball. From where I was sitting both players were going hell for leather to reach the loose ball but Bertrand had his eye on the ball the whole time and unfortunately when he slid in for it Barrow came out worse. If Barrow wasn't hurt and just got up it'd have been a yellow or nothing at all. As alluded to earlier on this thread though I watched them having a spat earlier in the game but they made up pretty quickly. I doubt we'll appeal for fear of the additional ban for frivolous appeal. The bit in bold was shown to be blatantly untrue on MotD2 who showed Bertrand looking away from the ball as he ran towards the contact, generously you could claim looking up the wing to where his options were, a cynic would say he was sizing up which bit of Barrow he was going to collect with his follow-through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 The bit in bold was shown to be blatantly untrue on MotD2 who showed Bertrand looking away from the ball as he ran towards the contact, generously you could claim looking up the wing to where his options were, a cynic would say he was sizing up which bit of Barrow he was going to collect with his follow-through. People see what they want to see, if the tackle had been the other way round and Barrow was only given a yellow there'd be a furore to end all furores on this forum. It was a red card, there is no issue really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 People see what they want to see, if the tackle had been the other way round and Barrow was only given a yellow there'd be a furore to end all furores on this forum. It was a red card, there is no issue really. Yup, I was shocked at first, but when you see him go over the ball (even though he touched it) and go through the man there is only ever one outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 Let's face it, Barrow had been an annoying little c*ck all game. Ryan was just waiting for his moment and whilst initially I didn't think it was a red, there was a purpose behind that challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 Let's face it, Barrow had been an annoying little c*ck all game. Ryan was just waiting for his moment and whilst initially I didn't think it was a red, there was a purpose behind that challenge. I do think it was a red, but I'm not sure on this. I saw it as a tired/desperate lunge towards the end of a game that was slipping away, as opposed to a malicious swipe. Just my take though, I could be wrong on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 I actually thought it looked like he slowed down to ensure he made contact. Barrow had been diving and whinging and he wanted to do him. Fair enough and we can't really complain about the red. However, "It's a red all day-long" is, IMO, somewhat glib and fine when looking at the laws in the abstract. The fact is, a lot of times the ref wouldn't have shown the red because they are extremely inconsistent. For that reason I would say we were a bit unlucky. I wouldn't be howling for a red if the Swansea player had done the same thing and I wouldn't have been at all surprised if a red hadn't been shown. Discpline and referreeing in this country is awful. Sterling can slap someone in the face half a yard away from the linesman and get no sanction, whilst in the same game Shelvey did a more ambiguous elbow and got a three game ban after the event. Completely perverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 Modou Barrow set to be available for the Sunderland game having suffered no serious injury following the challenge which saw Ryan Bertrand sent off at St Mary's. So.....four minutes of play acting, a pantomime with a stretcher, an outraged bench ensuring maximum pressure on the ref and we now quietly discover that he's not actually injured.... What a surprise. But all the rolling about and touchline anguish fooled Mr Oliver into thinking he'd been badly hurt and that's what counts - job done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanimal Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 No surprise RB cause Ryan hardly touched him and the diving cheat made a complete meal of it - he should be retrospectively charged IMO, disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 Too right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 Modou Barrow set to be available for the Sunderland game having suffered no serious injury following the challenge which saw Ryan Bertrand sent off at St Mary's. Phew. what a relief. I haven't been able to sleep the past 2 nights with worry and you must also remember how the poor lad was also struck down by that vicious karate chop from Yoshi just outside our penalty area. I expect he's probably considering joining 'arry in retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 Suggest you watch the replay! Betrand's leg bounced up off the ball which is why he ended off taking the player high. A decade ago that would have been seen as a good tackle. Oh behave, it didnt bounce, he tried so hard to make sure he nailed the player he nearly missed the ball. I couldve timed that tackle better, a premiership left back who has shown he is a decent tackler doesnt miss time a tackle by that margin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 I'm quite stunned about the number of morons who don't know the laws of the game. http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_12_fouls_misconduct_en_47379.pdf Careless is a foul, reckless is a yellow card, with excessive force (dangerous) is a red card. Reckless is "acted with complete disregard of the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent" Excessive force is "far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent". It was unnecessarily forceful and never mind "in danger of", he actually injured the opponent, it's a red card every day of the week and has been since the laws were changed to say this about 18 months ago. Exactly Bo doubt they'll say... He won the ball.. As if that is in any way an excuse for the tackle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 3 February, 2015 Share Posted 3 February, 2015 Modou Barrow set to be available for the Sunderland game having suffered no serious injury following the challenge which saw Ryan Bertrand sent off at St Mary's. So.....four minutes of play acting, a pantomime with a stretcher, an outraged bench ensuring maximum pressure on the ref and we now quietly discover that he's not actually injured.... What a surprise. But all the rolling about and touchline anguish fooled Mr Oliver into thinking he'd been badly hurt and that's what counts - job done! Unfortunately I will always say in this situation, if you give the ref an excuse to send you off, or give a penalty or whatever, dont be surprised if he actually takes you up on the offer Regardless of the overreaction, it was at speed and reckless and gave the ref enough excuse to send him off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 4 February, 2015 Share Posted 4 February, 2015 yes I agree Smirk that he gave the ref the opportunity for a yellow or red - but the writhing player and aggressive bench reaction was aimed at influencing the decision. The media was all over the career-ending tackle on the day, but has been very slow to spot the miraculous recovery. It seems that when the stretcher was put away, the air ambulance stood down and the dust settled, the truth is that there was no injury at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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