lordswoodsaints Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 just spoke to somebody who is heavily involved at bournemouth and was told that jake thomsons fitness levels are rubbish,he has been struggling to keep up with the bournemouth lads and looks well off the pace. didnt we have the same accusations aimed at us when kenwyne joined sunderland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 We did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Man Do Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 Extra fitness doesnt seem to have done them much help in the winning games stakes ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 14 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2009 Extra fitness doesnt seem to have done them much help in the winning games stakes ;-) true,but it is a bit of an embarrassment that our great facilities,admired by europe cannot produce a fitter player than a small team down the road who jog up and down the local park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 didnt we have the same accusations aimed at us when kenwyne joined sunderland? Well that's not really surprising is it.KJ didn't want to be here so probably slackassed his way through pre-season. A few rough and tumbles against Norwegian pipe fitters and car salesman don't need much "fitness" do they. Thompson is a young player, may be lacking in physical strength.That"s why he's down in that craphole in the first place.If he was a serious contender for regular first team football in the CCC he wouldn't be down at Bournemouth. He'll have to watch out he doesn't get sand kicked in his face this spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 14 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2009 Well that's not really surprising is it.KJ didn't want to be here so probably slackassed his way through pre-season. A few rough and tumbles against Norwegian pipe fitters and car salesman don't need much "fitness" do they. Thompson is a young player, may be lacking in physical strength.That"s why he's down in that craphole in the first place.If he was a serious contender for regular first team football in the CCC he wouldn't be down at Bournemouth. He'll have to watch out he doesn't get sand kicked in his face this spring. i think the sand thing already happened the other day as they were filmed jogging along the beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 i think the sand thing already happened the other day as they were filmed jogging along the beach. The "sand thing" came from advert that you used to get in magazines for transforming 9 stone weaklings into Schwarzy lookalikes in only 6 weeks. Charles Atlas was that it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 Yes, the shocking truth is that with all the shiny training facilities, our players are not as fit as they should or could be. Why? Possibly because they don't need to move much to practice "pass the ball" - who knows - but whatever, its still an insult to supporters that pay their wages and expect them to keep fit to win games. I must admit to wondering on more than one occasion why our youthful team thats supposed to have loads of pace, often looks like they've just woken up after a night on the tiles and certainly can't run past a defender 8+ years their senior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 Total Football method The Dutch Way. First two years, train with the ball and improve personal skills. Second year, team /tactics and strategy. Maybe some getting together or is that called to Gel as a group. third and fourth year Marine commando course on a weekly basis. Fifth year, win lots of games and work our way up from the Conference. Its called The Five Year Plan.....You lot obviously did not listen to The Lowey and Wildey manifesto......Give the lads time. It will all come together one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 i think the sand thing already happened the other day as they were filmed jogging along the beach. There was a thread on this the other day saying how he came in last after they went for a run on the beach when the ground was frozen. Bit worrying really and only hope he's a one off!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 There was a thread on this the other day saying how he came in last after they went for a run on the beach when the ground was frozen. Bit worrying really and only hope he's a one off!!!!! I think you & I both commented back in pre-season about the whole working with the ball thing.... Is it REALLY only pure co-incidence that our best ever season in the PL came the year WGS had the players running up and down sand dunes until they vomitted, and then made them do more? Somehow time to dust off the sports science equipment Oh I forgot, nobody left at the club who knows how to use it all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 14 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2009 I think you & I both commented back in pre-season about the whole working with the ball thing.... Is it REALLY only pure co-incidence that our best ever season in the PL came the year WGS had the players running up and down sand dunes until they vomitted, and then made them do more? Somehow time to dust off the sports science equipment Oh I forgot, nobody left at the club who knows how to use it all..... i used to run the shop on the sports centre during the strachan era and the players were always jogging around the place for hours,strachan being the front runner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WealdSaint Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 I suspect that we hav'nt had a properly fit squad since WGS left. If I remember correctly from Souness's book that when he was here Lowe said he knew some chaps from Loughborough University that could help with the fitness of the squad and that Souness declined the offer. Obviouly a lot of water has flowed under the Itchen Bridge since then ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 I know, lets take one piece of uncorroborated evidence about one player and use it to castigate the whole team and regime. It's not like we got to the frozen north, outlasted another CCC team, and scored a goal in the last 10 minutes of the game is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 14 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2009 I know, lets take one piece of uncorroborated evidence about one player and use it to castigate the whole team and regime. It's not like we got to the frozen north, outlasted another CCC team, and scored a goal in the last 10 minutes of the game is it? one player being unfit is p1ss poor imo,after all they get paid more than enough to be athletes who should be at peak fitness.the only exception to this should be injury or coming back from an injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 I know, lets take one piece of uncorroborated evidence about one player and use it to castigate the whole team and regime. It's not like we got to the frozen north, outlasted another CCC team, and scored a goal in the last 10 minutes of the game is it? Faz, The worry that some supporters have, is that Thommo, was by far the fittest player at Saints.....Mind you he might have gone downhill since going to the Cherries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 14 January, 2009 Share Posted 14 January, 2009 Yes, the shocking truth is that with all the shiny training facilities, our players are not as fit as they should or could be. Why? Poor coaches. Just like Burley (but not as bad in that respect). What do you expect when you employ inexperienced semi-amateur coaches from a league that has no need for great physical fitness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 i think the sand thing already happened the other day as they were filmed jogging along the beach. Running in sand is a well known technique by athletes. The Aussie John Landy broke Bannister's 4 minute mile record by training to run up and down sand dunes. Perhaps we should train with the Bournemouth squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 I think you & I both commented back in pre-season about the whole working with the ball thing.... Is it REALLY only pure co-incidence that our best ever season in the PL came the year WGS had the players running up and down sand dunes until they vomitted, and then made them do more? Somehow time to dust off the sports science equipment Oh I forgot, nobody left at the club who knows how to use it all..... Good post. I think athletes run on sand also for endurance and building stamina - I read somewhere that Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thomson did it to build stamina to bowl at top pace for longer spells in the 1970s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 I think you & I both commented back in pre-season about the whole working with the ball thing.... Is it REALLY only pure co-incidence that our best ever season in the PL came the year WGS had the players running up and down sand dunes until they vomitted, and then made them do more? Somehow time to dust off the sports science equipment Oh I forgot, nobody left at the club who knows how to use it all..... No sports sciencentist would advocate endurance running to the point of sickness for a footballer and actually there is someone at the club. The new goalkeeper coach Keith Granger is fairly well versed in the whole sports science thing. He used to (probably still does) run "The Garage" football training school in Winchester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 Good post. I think athletes run on sand also for endurance and building stamina - I read somewhere that Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thomson did it to build stamina to bowl at top pace for longer spells in the 1970s. Yes Herb Elliott the famous miler of the 1950s did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 No sports sciencentist would advocate endurance running to the point of sickness for a footballer and actually there is someone at the club. The new goalkeeper coach Keith Granger is fairly well versed in the whole sports science thing. He used to (probably still does) run "The Garage" football training school in Winchester. Well, Kelvin has not been short of fitness to do his job well. Though presumably his pre-season training preceded Granger's arrival (correct me if wrong). In which case it is down to him. Perhaps the trouble is that the initiative to keep themselves fit lies with the players, and is not being sufficiently and proactively enforced by the trainers/coach. I agree with dubaiPhil; many of us commented when the Dutch dup arrived that although training was concentrating on ball control (successfully imo), not enough on fitness training. We had Pearson's and WGS's training methods in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 No sports sciencentist would advocate endurance running to the point of sickness for a footballer and actually there is someone at the club. The new goalkeeper coach Keith Granger is fairly well versed in the whole sports science thing. He used to (probably still does) run "The Garage" football training school in Winchester. Is that Keith Granger as in the former Saints keeper that debuted in 1986 at Everton and Spurs at the end of the season? Went to Darlington I think and then had to finish due to injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 Harry Redknapps teams have had the non fit thing thrown at them, he's done nothing has he? Its all hear say.Saints use Pro zone and so i expect that would be more accurate than 'my mate says' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 Is that Keith Granger as in the former Saints keeper that debuted in 1986 at Everton and Spurs at the end of the season? Went to Darlington I think and then had to finish due to injury. The very same. Not a great games played to goals conceeded ratio for Saints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 The very same. Not a great games played to goals conceeded ratio for Saints Thanks Gemmel. I knew his dad years ago, nice guy. Keith was put in the deep end a bit - Everton were pushing Liverpool all the way for the title and needed to win. Derek Mountfield's blatant handball goal (punched in the net although what Maradona did in Mexico that summer was far worse) didn't help though! Lineker scored a couple as well in what I think was a 6-1 win. He then leaked 5 at Spurs the following week but Saints at least scored 3 in reply in a classic end of season game. A young Craig Maskell scored I seem to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 Harry Redknapps teams have had the non fit thing thrown at them, he's done nothing has he? Its all hear say.Saints use Pro zone and so i expect that would be more accurate than 'my mate says' There is some evidence though. Under WGS after "that" pre-season, he played a style that involved our players closing down and aggressively chasing down the opposition. We certainly overachieved that season and i am sure that there were media comments about us being "one" if not "the" fittest squad in the PL. Fast forward to the Burley days and there was a lot of visual evidence that we were not fit, and also the KJ story. Sure different managers would want different types of fitness for different reasons, but the GB Norway trip sounded more like a stag weekend seeing some of the posts by lads who went along... It would be interesting for our stat gurus to find out how many late goals we conceded by each season - say the last 8 minutes or so. We had a spate early this year BUT have started to actually get points now so maybe the fitness is / has been addressed. Conceding late goals is often as much about mental fitness and concentration as it is the physical side. A lad from this part of the world is the highest rated U-14, he is rated by his UEFA badged coaches as the fittest kid playing football. He had a trial not so long ago, got through day one on ability without a problem. Day two after just under 3 hours he collapsed and said no way could he keep going, the Academy lads were just way to fit and fast for him. respect to him for actually deciding himself he needed to go away and work on things. This is a kid who had olympic level stamina and speed training, but what HE learnt is that it was not what was needed for football. So we come back to the point that different age levels and different managers would want different fitness levels. IMHO - they get paid enough so they should have to vomit more often! Would do some prima donnas around teh PL & Championship the world of good getting barfed all over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 Yes Herb Elliott the famous miler of the 1950s did No he ran up Sand DUNES. Running on flat sand is completely wrong for the gait of a middle distance runner but running up sand dunes has multiple benefits. The main ones are that it develops leg strength, which improves speed rather than endurance, it raises heart rates to very high levels and it is highly anaerobic which develops lactic acid tolerance and recovery. Steve Ovett used it to great effect too. Sand Dunes would be beneficial to footballers. I am not convinced that running on flat sand would be that useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadia Sllim Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 The Dell goalmouths in the 60 and 70's were always full of sand, Eric Martin never struck as fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 I've played beach football in the West Indies - it's an absolute killer. Mind you, weighing 16 stone doesn't help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 Poor coaches. Just like Burley (but not as bad in that respect). What do you expect when you employ inexperienced semi-amateur coaches from a league that has no need for great physical fitness. Yes, you're absolutely right. These people are paid to ensure the players at the Manager's disposal are in top condition - mentally, physically, tactically. Many commentators say that we have a very good squad of young potential stars. Well the evidence for all to see is that they are seriously underperforming on all three of the above counts. The coaches (including JP) are to blame and frankly should be sacked for such poor performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekelund24 Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 No sports sciencentist would advocate endurance running to the point of sickness for a footballer and actually there is someone at the club. I would imagine it wasn't endurance running but multiple short sprints with little rest, which is perfect training for football. Look at Beattie as an example in Strachan's Reign he must've scored around 50 goals in 100 games as well as having an amazing workrate closing defenders down and pressuring the ball. All this was enabled due to the high fitness levels Strachan created in the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 I would imagine it wasn't endurance running but multiple short sprints with little rest, which is perfect training for football. Look at Beattie as an example in Strachan's Reign he must've scored around 50 goals in 100 games as well as having an amazing workrate closing defenders down and pressuring the ball. All this was enabled due to the high fitness levels Strachan created in the players. I completely agree. For what it's worth i don't think we are or have been anywhere near as fit as when Strachan was here and i am sure that was a massive contributor to our relative success under him. They can shout all the pro zone tests and results till they are blue in the face, because it's either broken or they don't know how to read the data. That might not be fair on all players, but if Mcgoldrick is showing fit on pro- zone ...............pull the plug out and save some electricty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 15 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 15 January, 2009 Harry Redknapps teams have had the non fit thing thrown at them, he's done nothing has he? Its all hear say.Saints use Pro zone and so i expect that would be more accurate than 'my mate says' sorry but nothig like 'my mate says'... it actually came from a current bournemouth player (first team). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 15 January, 2009 Share Posted 15 January, 2009 sorry but nothig like 'my mate says'... it actually came from a current bournemouth player (first team). Dont worry I will back your story as I know the person that was jogging with him on the saturday down Bournemouth beach. I will repeat that the first team and academy team had there games called off so the management set them up a course at the beach. Jake was eager to impress and was the first one to make a move from the very off, the pack behind him was stunned how super fit he was at first. The story goes that by time he reached the finishing line the rest of the team had stretched down and was sitting on the mini bus. A major laughable matter i say and I just wished I was there to enjoy it. My comments regarding fitness, This could of been a blip as Jake is not match fit at all and we all know that a 90 minute game is so much better than a training session. Anyway I will never forget the days when Strachan would have our team sprinting to the half way line and then walking back to do it again. This was not a couple of times it was almost the whole training session. Bloody awesome watching the pain as they was pushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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