Boeing 737-8 Max

[leesaint88]

57 minutes ago, Picard said:

Looks like another one has crashed. Hoping it's not as bad as it seems.

787 Dreamliner - Probably one of the 'safest' aircraft out there. Certainly from the footage it looks a strange one..

[Colinjb]

The plane's attitude doesn't change. It's almost as though it entirely and instantaneously lost power and couldn't maintain it's climb.

[leesaint88]

49 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

The plane's attitude doesn't change. It's almost as though it entirely and instantaneously lost power and couldn't maintain it's climb.

Some early data shows it almost ran out of runway on take off too...

[skintsaint]

Experts looking at that clip say the wing flaps had been retracted too soon, maybe while the undercarriage is still down which is unusual.

[skintsaint]

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1l9no7u/new_video_of_take_off_to_the_crash_of_air_india/

Another video with speculation that it was a flap issue.

Again, don't click if you don't want to see the crash.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, skintsaint said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1l9no7u/new_video_of_take_off_to_the_crash_of_air_india/

Another video with speculation that it was a flap issue.

Again, don't click if you don't want to see the crash.

All of them though? Points to hydraulics I'd guess (coming from a tractor background).

Edited Thursday at 16:10 by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

4 hours ago, Colinjb said:

The plane's attitude doesn't change. It's almost as though it entirely and instantaneously lost power and couldn't maintain it's climb.

Would it not have dropped quicker with no power?

[Sevvy]

Reports of one survivor from plane crash

[skintsaint]

Just now, Sevvy said:

Reports of one survivor from plane crash

Walked away from it amazingly, lots of NSFL posts of charred remains already out there 🤢😓

[Sheaf Saint]

15 minutes ago, Sevvy said:

Reports of one survivor from plane crash

Yep. He said there was a loud noise and they started to drop. Suggests some kind of mechanical failure. But the fact that they used every last inch of the runway suggests other factors prior to that. Seems that the safe go/no go point had been crossed and it was too late to abort the takeoff. Pilot maybe figured there was a slim chance of avoiding a disaster if he could get airborne, but zero chance if he tried to abort. But the investigation will reveal more I guess.

[Colinjb]

27 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Would it not have dropped quicker with no power?

No power = no forward thrust. It had enough thrust to get airbourne in the first place and would have slowed according to air resistance.... but would be able to resonably glide a fair distance. They are designed to glide in the event of engine failure. 

[trousers]

If flightradar is anything to go by, it looks like they started the spool up about a third of the way down the runway rather than taxiing to the far end of the runway. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if they underestimated the length of runway required, which would be based on the weight of the aircraft, amongst other factors. 

[Colinjb]

13 minutes ago, trousers said:

If flightradar is anything to go by, it looks like they started the spool up about a third of the way down the runway rather than taxiing to the far end of the runway. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if they underestimated the length of runway required, which would be based on the weight of the aircraft, amongst other factors. 

It doesn't explain in itself why the plane would fall. If you are fast enough to leave the ground you should continue to gain speed and thrust from there on. If there was a flaps issue maybe the plane then stalled, but I wouldn't take the runway length to be the problem here.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Sevvy said:

Reports of one survivor from plane crash

That is truly mental -seat 11A

[trousers]

11 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

It doesn't explain in itself why the plane would fall. If you are fast enough to leave the ground you should continue to gain speed and thrust from there on. If there was a flaps issue maybe the plane then stalled, but I wouldn't take the runway length to be the problem here.

Yeah, fair point. Contrary to what I saw earlier, it turns out they used the entire runway anyway...

[trousers]

Actually, the fact it appears they used the full length of the runway, attempting to take off at the last possible moment (hence the plume of dust that can be seen) is equally odd. Too heavy maybe? 

[Colinjb]

13 minutes ago, trousers said:

Actually, the fact it appears they used the full length of the runway, attempting to take off at the last possible moment (hence the plume of dust that can be seen) is equally odd. Too heavy maybe? 

Or too draggy?

[Farmer Saint]

37 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

Or too draggy?

Flaps in the wrong position creating drag?

[benjii]

6 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Flaps in the wrong position creating drag?

Can cause chafing on the shaft.

[skintsaint]

3 hours ago, Sevvy said:

Reports of one survivor from plane crash

He is going to need some therapy in the future no doubt, being the only survivor from that.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

7 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

He is going to need some therapy in the future no doubt, being the only survivor from that.

How the fuck can you literally walk away from that? I mean he's practically unscathed. Truly remarkable 

[skintsaint]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

How the fuck can you literally walk away from that? I mean he's practically unscathed. Truly remarkable 

[Farmer Saint]

15 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Great film

[Sheaf Saint]

3 hours ago, Colinjb said:

It doesn't explain in itself why the plane would fall. If you are fast enough to leave the ground you should continue to gain speed and thrust from there on. If there was a flaps issue maybe the plane then stalled, but I wouldn't take the runway length to be the problem here.

This isn't the case, due to the ground effect. A plane can have enough power and lift to get off the ground initially, but then stall once the ground effect is reduced. There's an insightful comment from an experienced airline pilot about this in the Reddit thread shared by skintsaint earlier...

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1l9no7u/comment/mxf2uk2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[Sheaf Saint]

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, skintsaint said:

Yeah. Was giving me Bruce Willis vibes when I saw the news. 

[Colinjb]

16 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

This isn't the case, due to the ground effect. A plane can have enough power and lift to get off the ground initially, but then stall once the ground effect is reduced. There's an insightful comment from an experienced airline pilot about this in the Reddit thread shared by skintsaint earlier...

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1l9no7u/comment/mxf2uk2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Thankyou. The same principle that worked for the old Soviet Ekranoplans if I remember right.

[Lighthouse]

Obviously details at the moment are thin and sketchy so we can only guess and speculate as to what happened. Watching the videos, my instinctive reaction is that it did take off with the flaps correctly set, at least initially. Compared to other accidents when aircraft have attempted to get airborne without them, it rotated and lifted off too well initially IMO. If anyone wants a decent video of what that would have looked like, I've attached a video of a very lucky aircraft just about getting airborne at Cardiff a few years ago. It would also require the take off configuration warning to be either inoperative or ignored, which is not that easily done.

More plausible IMO would be a loss of power shortly after rotation, possibly due to something like fuel contamination. Another possibility is that the pilot flying called for gear up and the pilot not flying accidentally retracted the flaps instead. No evidence to suggest either so far but they would fall under Occam's razor, from watching those videos on X.

 

 

[Sarnia Cherie]

13 hours ago, whelk said:

That is truly mental -seat 11A

And sat right next to his brother, who died. I was pleased the BBC reporter was turned away from the hospital. He was probably going to ask him an inane question like, 'How do you feel?' 

[Sarnia Cherie]

A friend of mine was an air hostess for BA many years ago. From time to time she was asked to help out on another airline. She flatly refused to work on 2. Aeroflot and Air India. Neither had good enough safety and maintenance for her peace of mind.

[skintsaint]

Survivor interviewed on Indian TV:

Reporter (Neeraj Singh, DD News):

Vishwas Kumar is with us now. Let me remind viewers: the Ahmedabad-to-London flight carried 242 people—2 pilots, 10 crew members, and 230 passengers, including several foreign nationals. Vishwas is the only person who survived the crash, a true miracle. Vishwas, first of all, how are you feeling, and can you tell us what happened up there?

Vishwas Kumar (sole survivor):

Honestly, I still can’t believe I’m alive. For a few seconds I felt sure I was going to die. When I came to, I realized I could move, so I unbuckled my seat belt, looked for any gap I could squeeze through, and somehow got out.

Reporter:
Walk us through the moment right after take-off. What went wrong?

Vishwas:
About a minute after leaving the runway the plane suddenly felt as if it froze in mid-air. The cabin lights flashed green and white, and then it seemed the pilots pushed the engines hard to gain altitude—but instead we went straight into a hostel building that’s part of a nearby hospital.

Reporter:
When the aircraft hit the hostel, did you manage to escape immediately?

Vishwas:
Not exactly. The side where I was sitting didn’t smash directly into the building. I came to rest against the hostel’s ground floor, and my side still had a small opening—the door was hanging off. I saw space outside, so I crawled through. The opposite side was crushed against a wall; I don’t think anyone there could get out. I watched two flight attendants and several passengers right in front of me—none of them survived. My left hand was burned, but I managed to walk a short distance before an ambulance reached me.

Reporter:
The Prime Minister visited you earlier. How is the treatment you’re receiving now?

Vishwas:
The care here is excellent. The doctors and staff have been very supportive, and I’m grateful to be in good hands.

Reporter (sign-off):
Thank you for speaking to us, Vishwas. We wish you a speedy recovery.

[Behind Enemy Lines]

15 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Obviously details at the moment are thin and sketchy so we can only guess and speculate as to what happened. Watching the videos, my instinctive reaction is that it did take off with the flaps correctly set, at least initially. Compared to other accidents when aircraft have attempted to get airborne without them, it rotated and lifted off too well initially IMO. If anyone wants a decent video of what that would have looked like, I've attached a video of a very lucky aircraft just about getting airborne at Cardiff a few years ago. It would also require the take off configuration warning to be either inoperative or ignored, which is not that easily done.

More plausible IMO would be a loss of power shortly after rotation, possibly due to something like fuel contamination. Another possibility is that the pilot flying called for gear up and the pilot not flying accidentally retracted the flaps instead. No evidence to suggest either so far but they would fall under Occam's razor, from watching those videos on X.

 

 

That video isn’t at Cardiff and has nothing to do with flap configuration. It was the wake turbulence from a landing A330 on a crossing runway that caused the disturbance to the take-off. It was in 2016 at Frankfurt.