Surman to Reading?

[Wildgoose]

Came across this link just now

 

http://www.people.co.uk/sport/football/tm_headline=hotline-yes-sur-he-ll-do-for-cop%26method=full%26objectid=20701188%26siteid=93463-name_page.html

 

I know it's The People, but there seem to be some indications that something may really be happening.....

 

If it does happen, is the bottom falling out or can we continue building?

What do you think?

[Master Bates]

There were ITK rumours of Reading's interest in Surman.

[alpine_saint]

Assuming for one moment its true (and almost every other transfer rumour seems to be coming true), this is final proof the club is in a free-fall that will only end with administration, sooner or later.

 

There is no way the team can withstand all these knock-backs - sooner or later they will cease to be a team.

 

What odds on Saints surviving the season ?

[Saint2Hotty]

Thats all we need. Do we actually have anyone else, other than skacel if he doesnt go that can play left back? If this is going to happen i would hope that we already have someone lined up to come in on loan to cover that position, or is that me being slightly optamistic?

[alpine_saint]

This also appears to affect one of JPs first-choice players for the first time.

 

The cuts are getting deeper...

[Faz]

Assuming for one moment its true (and almost every other transfer rumour seems to be coming true), this is final proof the club is in a free-fall that will only end with administration, sooner or later.

 

There is no way the team can withstand all these knock-backs - sooner or later they will cease to be a team.

 

What odds on Saints surviving the season ?

 

The only thing it proves, if true, is what we already knew. We are in the mire financially. Having failed to shift some of he higher earners - because they are higher earners in this league, others are open to offers.

 

It seems to me the point of this is to avoid administration.

[alpine_saint]

The only thing it proves, if true, is what we already knew. We are in the mire financially. Having failed to shift some of he higher earners - because they are higher earners in this league, others are open to offers.

 

It seems to me the point of this is to avoid administration.

 

But cant you see ?

 

Because we havent got rid of the likes of Euell and Skacel (but bizarrely, arent playing them either), Lowe is having to go further down the list, and for each player he disposes of down that list, he is making lesss and less contribution to the overall saving agreed with the bank, meaning MORE of those lower-list players have to go.

 

This is going to tear the team apart.

[obelisk]

Surman didn't seem motivated to me and his performance as a left back was worse than useless. If we can't play him where his best talents lie then I wouldn't blame him for moving on. At this rate it looks like I might get a game if I turn up with my boots.

[Bourno]

Seems strange that he would leave us for another Championship team.

 

Whilst I don't want him to go I would accept him moving to the Premiership because we may not be back there during his playing career.

[dubai_phil]

But cant you see ?

 

Because we havent got rid of the likes of Euell and Skacel (but bizarrely, arent playing them either), Lowe is having to go further down the list, and for each player he disposes of down that list, he is making lesss and less contribution to the overall saving agreed with the bank, meaning MORE of those lower-list players have to go.

 

This is going to tear the team apart.

 

Posted similar train of thought before. If we don't lose Skacel & Euell we would have to lose Davis Davies and or Surman.

 

Drew is a good player, think he is more suited at left midfield, but with the formation we now have that position seems to be more suited to a pacy winger. Central midfield has better cover. So we haven't got rid of the deadwood and we are left with the family silver having to go.

 

Nobody on here would pick Euell over Surman even allowing Euell's last performances under NP. They may be more evenly split over Drew vs Skacel.

 

The bread on the sh*t sandwich seems to be getting thinner each passing day. About the only positive anyone could see is we get an exprienced International Footballer coming in at left back...

hmmm

 

Poortvliet clearly said before the season that he feels a first team squad of 24 players is the level for us with (my words) the "younger youngsters" adding the cover. It will be interesting to see what we have left at the end of the window. Moves into the loan market become more and more important now once 31st Aug has been and gone.

 

(And I guess will depend on getting rid of Thomas if we can't move Euell or Skacel)

 

Great work in securing these PL quality players on long contracts guys

 

And good to know the likes of Sheff U & Watford will have similar issues once their parachute payments run out

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

But cant you see ?

 

Because we havent got rid of the likes of Euell and Skacel (but bizarrely, arent playing them either), Lowe is having to go further down the list, and for each player he disposes of down that list, he is making lesss and less contribution to the overall saving agreed with the bank, meaning MORE of those lower-list players have to go.

 

This is going to tear the team apart.

 

This strikes me as true .

Neither Skacel or Euell seem wanted (or affordable anyway) at the club but you can't really blame them for sitting on their contracts in the absence of a better offer - we all have to look after our own interests at the end of the day. I suspect that Skacel will leave soon , but we may have to virtually give away a £750k player and just take a loss on the deal .

 

The failure to achieve a decent income from the players that have left this summer has forced us into disposing of players we'd much rather keep (Davies / Surman ?) this can only have a damaging effect on an already desperately 'thin' squad .

 

I just can't wait for midnight August 31st and get this awful business over with , at least then we will know where we stand .

[dubai_phil]

FWIW I expect we will still be able to get Skacel & Euell off the books during the loan window.

We'd just probably have to pay about half of their wages. So we get a reduction in costs but the continued sales reflect it won't be enough AND it would damage the ability to afford loans.

[Chez]

FWIW I expect we will still be able to get Skacel & Euell off the books during the loan window.

We'd just probably have to pay about half of their wages. So we get a reduction in costs but the continued sales reflect it won't be enough AND it would damage the ability to afford loans.

 

we could have paid Skacel the £4k a week he would have been losing if he joined Ipswich

[Guest Hacienda]

Don't sell players, go into administration and get relegated due to points loss.

 

Sell our players, don't go into administration but get relegated due to not having enough points.

 

To conclude. We're fooooooked.

[Weston Saint]

Drew will be gutted if he has to leave Saints. They are all he wants to play for.

 

The only way he will go is if Saints say they want to sell him and as of yesterday afternoon he and his family were unaware of any such plans.

 

His agent was in the crowd watching him play.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Don't sell players, go into administration and get relegated due to points loss.

 

Sell our players, don't go into administration but get relegated due to not having enough points.

 

To conclude. We're fooooooked.

 

"That's catch-22 Yossarian"

[John B]

It is a really difficult situation the board now has.

 

If we do not get income in for transfer fees we go into Administration.

 

 

So we want to sell players like Rasiak Euell Skacel etc there wages are too high but nobody wants them which I probably agree with( I could ask why we were paying so much in wages for these players over relatively long contracts but that wont help anybody)

 

We are then left with the only option which is to sell our better young players which will probably lead to worse results and less income from gate receipts which may lead to relegation and administration.

 

Not an easy call

[Whitey Grandad]

Don't sell players, go into administration and get relegated due to points loss.

 

Sell our players, don't go into administration but get relegated due to not having enough points.

 

To conclude. We're fooooooked.

 

That's the long and the short of it. I once saw a cartoon that said 'I feel so much better now that I've given up hope'

[John B]

Drew will be gutted if he has to leave Saints. They are all he wants to play for.

 

The only way he will go is if Saints say they want to sell him and as of yesterday afternoon he and his family were unaware of any such plans.

 

His agent was in the crowd watching him play.

 

 

That maybe true but I would have thought his agent would like to move him on

[Weston Saint]

That maybe true but I would have thought his agent would like to move him on

 

 

Not maybe, I spoke to them at half time. And no his agent is not looking for a move for him.

 

Drew would rather play in midfield but is happy as left back as long as he is "in the game" and able to get forward.

[Snowballs2]

The only thing it proves, if true, is what we already knew. We are in the mire financially. Having failed to shift some of he higher earners - because they are higher earners in this league, others are open to offers.

 

It seems to me the point of this is to avoid administration.

 

I am one of those who feel that the owners who have mismanaged for years deserve to lose their money, for that vindictive reason I would not worry about Administration. As a club we are ****ed.

Let the phoenix rise from the ashes without Wilde ,Lowe et al.

[Guest Hacienda]

I am one of those who feel that the owners who have mismanaged for years deserve to lose their money, for that vindictive reason I would not worry about Administration. As a club we are ****ed.

Let the phoenix rise from the ashes without Wilde ,Lowe et al.

 

Now I dislike Lowe with a passion and have no time for his quisling. However, only an idiot thinks administration is the way forward.

[Cabrone]

I absolutely refuse to fund Lowe et al and if that means the club goes through serious pain then so be it. I will not fund a wrecking crew of a board.

 

Selling a good player like Davies for a paltry 1.5 M is typical for Lowe. Has he got any contingency plan if Killer's knee packs up? Nope, didn't think so.

 

The man is a slash and burn merchant, sure we save initial costs but all it gets us is implosion after implosion.

 

Weaker squads - losing games - less fans - less revenue - weaker squads and on and on we go until the bank pulls the plug on the whole operation.

 

We are where we are in large part because of his useless meddling.

 

If he was any good he'd have been offered work elsewhere but I didn't see a stampede of clubs banging down his door when we gave him the boot last time. Shame.

 

Lowe, do the decent thing and walk away. You are not welcome by the majority of the fans at SFC.

[lordswoodsaints]

other than a takeover there is only one way that the club can stop the cutbacks and that is for all the missing fans that filled the stadium when we were in the prem to return...............where the fvck are they?

surely they cant all be 'working different hours','have other commitments' or 'cant afford it'.

[Guest Hacienda]

other than a takeover there is only one way that the club can stop the cutbacks and that is for all the missing fans that filled the stadium when we were in the prem to return...............where the fvck are they?

surely they cant all be 'working different hours','have other commitments' or 'cant afford it'.

 

Some won't go because of money. Some won't go because of last seasons cr@p football. Some won't go because of Lowe.

 

SFC is haemorrhaging fans at the same rate as players.

[miserableoldgit]

Seems strange that he would leave us for another Championship team.

 

Whilst I don't want him to go I would accept him moving to the Premiership because we may not be back there during his playing career.

Which club has the better chance of a quick return to the Prem? Surman is not Prem class at the moment.

[John B]

I am one of those who feel that the owners who have mismanaged for years deserve to lose their money, for that vindictive reason I would not worry about Administration. As a club we are ****ed.

Let the phoenix rise from the ashes without Wilde ,Lowe et al.

 

 

Administration is rather extreme

 

Lots of other people other than Lowe etc will lose their money too

 

But whatever happens things are not going to look good for sometime and we have to accept it.

[John B]

Which club has the better chance of a quick return to the Prem? Surman is not Prem class at the moment.

 

 

 

Yes I agree with you

 

Also what I do not understand is why he is rated £2.5 M whilst Davies is only £1.5 Mill

 

 

I think we should let him go for £2.5 M most fans think he is not a fullback and I cannot see where else he will play regularly.

 

He could then be replaced by a Lonee or Transfered player

[Snowballs2]

other than a takeover there is only one way that the club can stop the cutbacks and that is for all the missing fans that filled the stadium when we were in the prem to return...............where the fvck are they?

surely they cant all be 'working different hours','have other commitments' or 'cant afford it'.

 

No many will no longer fund Lowes / Wildes mistakes

[Snowballs2]

Administration is rather extreme

 

Lots of other people other than Lowe etc will lose their money too

 

But whatever happens things are not going to look good for sometime and we have to accept it.

 

 

I will NOT accept it.

[John B]

I will NOT accept it.

 

Why not ?

 

I think Wilde's decisions are more questionable than Lowe's

 

 

Everbody makes mistakes I certainly do but one has to accept them one cannot live in the past

Edited 17 August, 2008 by John B

[Faz]

But cant you see ?

 

Because we havent got rid of the likes of Euell and Skacel (but bizarrely, arent playing them either), Lowe is having to go further down the list, and for each player he disposes of down that list, he is making lesss and less contribution to the overall saving agreed with the bank, meaning MORE of those lower-list players have to go.

 

This is going to tear the team apart.

 

 

Of course I can see that. You're not the only one with a degree in stating the bleedin' obvious.

 

The point is, what is the alternative? It might be, as you have stated elsewhere in your continual capaign of negativity, a choice between Administartion now or Admnistartion later, but there is no doubt we need to raise funds. Personally I would prefer to avoid Adminstration now, and hope we can garner sufficient points this season and build from there. We are where we are, and I see little point in contiually sniping. Is your only alternative strategy Administration now????

[John B]

Of course I can see that. You're not the only one with a degree in stating the bleedin' obvious.

 

The point is, what is the alternative? It might be, as you have stated elsewhere in your continual capaign of negativity, a choice between Administartion now or Admnistartion later, but there is no doubt we need to raise funds. Personally I would prefer to avoid Adminstration now, and hope we can garner sufficient points this season and build from there. We are where we are, and I see little point in contiually sniping. Is your only alternative strategy Administration now????

 

Extremely Well Put

 

We need to support the Club not continually whinge because eventually things will turn for the better

Edited 17 August, 2008 by John B

[Weston Saint]

If we were to go into Administration the Administrator will sell off (give away) all our high earners to manage the debt going forward.

 

Customs and Excise will not agree CVA so we will not only be docked 10 points meaning inevitable relegation but starting the next season with a penalty of approximately 17 points with a weak squad meaning further relegation an almost certainty.

 

All the club are trying to do is manage the wage bill to avoid the other penalties.

 

How many hard working small businesses will fail because Saints cannot pay off what is owed to them?

 

Surman is not a high earner so I doubt he will be offered for sale. The strategy is to get rid of the high earners hence Davies going. Same for all the others.

 

So to sum up, like them or loath them, Lowe and Wilde have no alternative.

[Bailey]

I was feeling reasonably confident during pre-season with the squad we have and with the prospect of Davies returning to fitness. However, if we were to lose Davies AND Surman, then I think we will be struggling. Our squad is hardly huge as it is and we're in a difficult situation. I just hope we can offload the likes of Skacel and Euell to avoid us having to lose more important first team players.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

If we were to go into Administration the Administrator will sell off (give away) all our high earners to manage the debt going forward.

 

Customs and Excise will not agree CVA so we will not only be docked 10 points meaning inevitable relegation but starting the next season with a penalty of approximately 17 points with a weak squad meaning further relegation an almost certainty.

 

All the club are trying to do is manage the wage bill to avoid the other penalties.

 

How many hard working small businesses will fail because Saints cannot pay off what is owed to them?

 

Surman is not a high earner so I doubt he will be offered for sale. The strategy is to get rid of the high earners hence Davies going. Same for all the others.

 

So to sum up, like them or loath them, Lowe and Wilde have no alternative.

 

Think we all understand this but can you or anyone explain why we bought

Schniderlien if we are trying to cut costs?????

[Pokerchampion]

hence the poor display from surman yesterday , was a shadow of himself , not fluent coming foward , thought something was a miss from him , ENOUGH SAID BYE Surman ,

Freefall with no emergency parachute ?????

[ottery st mary]

Surman didn't seem motivated to me and his performance as a left back was worse than useless. If we can't play him where his best talents lie then I wouldn't blame him for moving on. At this rate it looks like I might get a game if I turn up with my boots.

 

Be at Derby next week and your in.

[Weston Super Saint]

Excellent news.

 

How young does a player need to be to get an FA registration?

 

Some of our youth team must be getting excited about getting their chance now : roll :

[up and away]

If we were to go into Administration the Administrator will sell off (give away) all our high earners to manage the debt going forward.

 

Customs and Excise will not agree CVA so we will not only be docked 10 points meaning inevitable relegation but starting the next season with a penalty of approximately 17 points with a weak squad meaning further relegation an almost certainty.

 

All the club are trying to do is manage the wage bill to avoid the other penalties.

 

How many hard working small businesses will fail because Saints cannot pay off what is owed to them?

 

Surman is not a high earner so I doubt he will be offered for sale. The strategy is to get rid of the high earners hence Davies going. Same for all the others.

 

So to sum up, like them or loath them, Lowe and Wilde have no alternative.

 

This is the choice we have to make, administration or attempt to avoid it with no guarantee we will be successful. With most businesses the plug would already have been pulled and we would be floating don the river, but for some reason football clubs are the equivalent of the cat with nine lives in this respect. Every high earner we have on our books has been available for sale since the end of last season, but we have just not been able to shift enough to plug the hole that is leaking the finances. In addition to getting parity on the wage bill we are still amassing/ed debt from these losses that have to be squared in some manner. If the debt can be restructured then the likes of Surman can remain, otherwise anything that can command a transfer fee will have to be sold to alleviate this problem. The only thing that Saints have on their side is to give the belief to their creditors that by developing our only assets (the youth), they have a far better chance of a return then placing us in administration. This is the position we find ourselves in and we have no one to blame but ourselves. If anyone believes adminstration is the better option then think again. All of the above will still happen, but sold off cheaper and quicker than imagineable and with a 17 point deduction as a going away present.

[Nexstar]

Would be terrible if he went, but maybe lowe is thinking if we managed to get enough out of reading for him the 'uncertain' furutres of skacel and euell may be at southampton.

[saintkiptanui]

Seems we can't get rid of Skacel so instead we will off load Surman, if we get 2.5 million that is a lot of money for a half decent player who most think isn't a left back but thats where he will be played this season so we are getting a lot of cash for an average left back, I'd snap there hand off and bring Skacel back in.

[Nexstar]

Seems we can't get rid of Skacel so instead we will off load Surman, if we get 2.5 million that is a lot of money for a half decent player who most think isn't a left back but thats where he will be played this season so we are getting a lot of cash for an average left back, I'd snap there hand off and bring Skacel back in.

 

Would hopefully 'steady the ship' abit more.

[Weston Super Saint]

This is the choice we have to make,

 

Conversely every other business I have ever worked for that relies on customers for its income, when facing 'bad times', they try to attract more customers, and try to get the existing customers to 'visit' more often, and spend more money to increase revenue / turnover, thus affecting profits......

 

So can someone please explain to me why the ONLY option available to SFC is to slash its costs and hope for the best???

[Window Cleaner]

Think we all understand this but can you or anyone explain why we bought

Schniderlien if we are trying to cut costs?????

 

 

 

i expect we counted on actually selling, Saga?Rasiak and Skacel amongst others. The fact that they are either still here dragging us down or gone with nothing but a measly loan fee to show for it explains everything.We bought or

engaged players we couldn't afford, to please most of the fans and "get our club back". Collectively they didn't deliver and now everybody has to pay for it. That means a lot of novice players, a cheap coach,staff cuts and whatever.

If you're looking for someone to blame there is only one direction to look in. The playing staff who took the club for about 12 million quid in salaries last season and just about avoided relegation.That's where the buck stops, all the rest is just sour grapes in various directions. Barnsley stayed up and got to

the later stage of the FA Cup, I bet their wage bill was about 3 million quid

at most.These players(you all know who they are) have brought our proud club to it's knees, whether they were mismanaged,should or shouldn't have

been bought is neither here or there, they were paid top dollar,the job they did was pitiful.So pitiful in fact that we had to get in loan players every five minutes to do the job THEY were being paid millions of pounds to do.

I'd clear out every damn one of them and start with the youth team if necessary,trouble is they have contracts so we're stuck with them.

[up and away]

Think we all understand this but can you or anyone explain why we bought

Schniderlien if we are trying to cut costs?????

 

This is a valid question which goes against this whole event and I can only assume we have had help from some source related to the club. When we signed the likes of Wotton, Holmes and Perry early doors, a lot thought this as a good sign that things were not so bad. But as was explained to me at the time it was an even worse indicator, in that we were fooked anyway if we could not move on the high earners and in getting in the frees early at least gave us a chance of putting a team on the pitch, than if we left it to the last minute.

 

When we signed Saga we used the logic that even if we could not afford to keep him, we could readily sell him on, possibly at a good profit. Well the bank has seen where that one got us, so I really doubt they would have bought into that scenario. The only thing that makes any sense there is that we had financial help from outside the plc.

[OldNick]

All this questions why the last board santioned the signings and wages of Davies Thomas Euell etc last season while we obviously heading for dire financial troubles.

[saintkiptanui]

Conversely every other business I have ever worked for that relies on customers for its income, when facing 'bad times', they try to attract more customers, and try to get the existing customers to 'visit' more often, and spend more money to increase revenue / turnover, thus affecting profits......

 

So can someone please explain to me why the ONLY option available to SFC is to slash its costs and hope for the best???

If more people had truned up yesterday and seen how good the football was they would keep coming, why is evryone so desperate to keep the utter sh*t that played for us last year, we are miles better now.

[Weston Super Saint]

If more people had truned up yesterday and seen how good the football was they would keep coming, why is evryone so desperate to keep the utter sh*t that played for us last year, we are miles better now.

 

And still lost....

[saintkiptanui]

And still lost....

against probably the best team in the league after giving them a lesson in football in the first half, FFS FFS FFS last year we would of lost by 5 or 6.