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Echo says Administration is not for the Moment


John B
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It appears neither is going to happen.

 

Yes unfortunately you may be right but it would be nice if the fans did try to stop the club going into Administration instead of organising pointless rallies as nothing can be done in changing personell without it costing money which is sadly unavailable.

 

Getting rid of Lowe is probably a reasonable goal in the long term but not at the moment where every effort should be made to stave off Administration

Edited by John B
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Yes unfortunately you may be right but it would be nice if the fans did try to stop the club going into Administration instead of organising pointless rallies as nothing can be done in changing personell without it costing money which is sadly unavailable.

 

Getting rid of Lowe is probably a reasonable goal in the long term but not at the moment where every effort should be made to stave off Administration

 

 

Agree with that.

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Yes unfortunately you may be right but it would be nice if the fans did try to stop the club going into Administration instead of organising pointless rallies as nothing can be done in changing personell without it costing money which is sadly unavailable.

 

Getting rid of Lowe is probably a reasonable goal in the long term but not at the moment where every effort should be made to stave off Administration

 

Why is it pointless ?

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Yes unfortunately you may be right but it would be nice if the fans did try to stop the club going into Administration instead of organising pointless rallies as nothing can be done in changing personell without it costing money which is sadly unavailable.

 

Getting rid of Lowe is probably a reasonable goal in the long term but not at the moment where every effort should be made to stave off Administration

Getting rid of Lowe is vital to avoid administration, not to mention relegation. Lowe staying will ensure both happen as sure as eggs is eggs. The cost of changing personnel is peanuts compared to the cost of relegation/admin

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Getting rid of Lowe is vital to avoid administration, not to mention relegation. Lowe staying will ensure both happen as sure as eggs is eggs. The cost of changing personnel is peanuts compared to the cost of relegation/admin

 

I would agree with what you are saying but I do not think the facts match your opinion

 

 

I can understand that you want a new manager and new players but getting that may tip us into administration.

 

It is a very difficult situation.

 

 

The time for getting rid of Lowe is in the future not now keeping us out of Administration is the most important and any extra unplanned costs will not help.

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Yes unfortunately you may be right but it would be nice if the fans did try to stop the club going into Administration instead of organising pointless rallies as nothing can be done in changing personell without it costing money which is sadly unavailable.

 

Getting rid of Lowe is probably a reasonable goal in the long term but not at the moment where every effort should be made to stave off Administration

 

pointless rallies??? so what do we do, sit back and watch them ruin our club..again! No sorry, we HAVE to get things sorted, they arent afterall. Yes i agree with the fact that we also need the stadium filled but why not do both?

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Echo:

"That means, in order to be safe, any club entering administration after March 26 must effectively finish ten points above the bottom three.

Despite some reports, there is no suggestion Saints will have to make such a decision, though."

 

 

"No suggestion" from where?

 

Of course there would be "no suggestion" of administration direct from the horse's mouth until it happened. The only "suggestions" would be through "reports" that it was about to happen.

 

Conclusion: the above sentence in the Echo is logically meaningless.

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I would agree with what you are saying but I do not think the facts match your opinion

 

 

I can understand that you want a new manager and new players but getting that may tip us into administration.

 

It is a very difficult situation.

 

 

The time for getting rid of Lowe is in the future not now keeping us out of Administration is the most important and any extra unplanned costs will not help.

 

sticking with what we have will equal relegation..which will equal administration. at least changing the manager to someone who knows what they are doing will at least give us a fighting chance

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Yes unfortunately you may be right but it would be nice if the fans did try to stop the club going into Administration instead of organising pointless rallies as nothing can be done in changing personell without it costing money which is sadly unavailable.

 

Getting rid of Lowe is probably a reasonable goal in the long term but not at the moment where every effort should be made to stave off Administration

 

Couldnt agree more. I think those that actually want Lowe here are in the extreme minority so its in most of our interest to get him gone. but trying to force change now will do nothing to help the club out where its needed now.

 

If there was a couple of mill in the bank then things would be totally different.

 

Lowe is not there because the shareholders think he can work a miricle, he is there because the rest want him to be the fall guy for when all goes t1ts up. So while there is still every chance of it all falling apart he will continue to get the "support" from the other muppets at the club.

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Lowe is a strong character he is not going to go on the say so of a few thousand supporters.

 

I thought that too until recently but his absence Saturday was very telling plus the reference to Mrs Lowe's opposition to him remaining at SFC. He won't worry about some chanting and a demo but if it escalates - and it did under Branfoot - he may decide to cut his losses. Cowen seems to have been particularly downbeat recently and that may have an impact on Lowe as well.

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pointless rallies??? so what do we do, sit back and watch them ruin our club..again! No sorry, we HAVE to get things sorted, they arent afterall. Yes i agree with the fact that we also need the stadium filled but why not do both?

 

 

They are not ruining the club they are trying to sort it out

 

It is not easy to sort out a financial mess I would have thought but then I am trying to put over a reasonable case

 

 

Paying large wages to Thomas Euell Skacel Saga is not helping the situation at all

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They are not ruining the club they are trying to sort it out

 

It is not easy to sort out a financial mess I would have thought but then I am trying to put over a reasonable case

 

 

Paying large wages to Thomas Euell Skacel Saga is not helping the situation at all

 

by keeping JP they are ruining it!

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sticking with what we have will equal relegation..which will equal administration. at least changing the manager to someone who knows what they are doing will at least give us a fighting chance

 

Yes the grass is always greener on the side

 

Recruiting Harry did not help us a few years back

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Couldnt agree more. I think those that actually want Lowe here are in the extreme minority so its in most of our interest to get him gone. but trying to force change now will do nothing to help the club out where its needed now.

 

If there was a couple of mill in the bank then things would be totally different.

 

Lowe is not there because the shareholders think he can work a miricle, he is there because the rest want him to be the fall guy for when all goes t1ts up. So while there is still every chance of it all falling apart he will continue to get the "support" from the other muppets at the club.

 

That final paragraph really sums it up and is probably very near the truth. I may not like Rupert but the bloke has balls, more than Wilde, Askham, Richards and all of those other inbred tarts combined. Trouble is, he also has become a poor CEO and a shadow of his former self.

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sticking with what we have will equal relegation..which will equal administration. at least changing the manager to someone who knows what they are doing will at least give us a fighting chance

 

I kind of agree with this but without the funds to get someone in that can turn "this" team into a winning team I dont see what change will happen?

 

I accept that Rupes will probably not make a change as this would mean he is admitting he got it wrong but looking at the bigger picture we are probably not in a position to do it anyway.

 

At most JP will step down as 1st team coach and Wotte will step in, whether or not JP stays with us as reserves coach or anything else is debatable but if we are inches away from Admin now then we are miles away from getting a manager in that can have a crack at turning the club round.

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by keeping JP they are ruining it!

 

Nothing is certain in football I think in 1969/70 we went about 17 games without a win but stayed up

 

We have managed to escape relegation in the past with the help of the supporters

 

But if we had a few million in the bank I would maybe agree with you

 

But we dont that is why we are in the mire.

Edited by John B
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That final paragraph really sums it up and is probably very near the truth. I may not like Rupert but the bloke has balls, more than Wilde, Askham, Richards and all of those other inbred tarts combined. Trouble is, he also has become a poor CEO and a shadow of his former self.

 

Im not sure you will find good argument to suggest he ever was a good CEO as despite a few success' with SFC the past 10 years has been littered with mistakes.

 

But I still believe what I said before. If Wilde/Crouch/Any of the rest had the faintest idea of how to turn the club around and be popular they would have done it by now and we would all be smiling and Lowe would be no-where to be seen. Likewise if the bank ballence was looking good, the others would want the credit and let the sh1t stick to rupes.

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Nothing is certain in football I think in 1969/70 we went about 17 games without a win but stayed up

 

We have managed to escape relegation in the past with the help of the supporters

 

But if we had a few million in the bank I would maybe agree with you

 

But we dont that is why we are in the mire.

 

Not being that old ;) i cant comment on that, but i bet the squad at the time were alot older, more experienced etc etc. The lads we have now coupled with JP et al leave me with no confidence at all about surviving this. We ciuldnt even beat Doncaster or Notts Forest at home!!

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Not being that old ;) i cant comment on that, but i bet the squad at the time were alot older, more experienced etc etc. The lads we have now coupled with JP et al leave me with no confidence at all about surviving this. We ciuldnt even beat Doncaster or Notts Forest at home!!

 

I think we had every chance at the begining of the season and was hoping that we went on a run that new teams often do and kick on from there. I didnt expect us to be world beaters but I didnt expect to be in this much trouble either.

 

That run never came and beating 2 of the top teams in the division boosted the confidence to kick on but was royaly lost when we got beat by naff teams we shouldnt have had to worry about.

 

There is allot of luck involved with that as we have been unlucky with a few decissions and injurys but we have been very lucky in the fact that KD has at least kept some results looking almost respectable.

 

If the management changes it will be like I said earlier and Wotte will step up. Will he drop McGoldrick when he cant be bothered? Will he un-earth any gems that will play for free and change our team into a defensive fortress combined with free flowing attacking football? Because that IMO is what we need. Our goal difference is so bad we need to not only claw some points but we also need to balence our GD as come the end of the season that might save our bacon.

 

So if we manage to get Lowe the boot, along with anyone else at the top that has caused this, the new chairman will have about 5 mins to get rid of JP and Wotte and bring in someone else that can make this team do the business. And do it for no money!!!

 

The bank knows how much cash is set aside for the management team and that is no doubt within budget. Sack JP and Wotte and surly there contract gets paid up? so thart pcart of the budget will be gone. Where does the money to pay for the replacement come from?

 

I said before if there was a couple of mill in the bank I would gree with you and would want the change to happen as soon as poss. but right now i dont see any other way forward.

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I would agree with what you are saying but I do not think the facts match your opinion

 

 

I can understand that you want a new manager and new players but getting that may tip us into administration.

 

It is a very difficult situation.

 

 

The time for getting rid of Lowe is in the future not now keeping us out of Administration is the most important and any extra unplanned costs will not help.

 

AH I see, so you are saying dont lock the stable door until after the horse has bolted.

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Trouble is, he also has become a poor CEO and a **shadow of his former self.**

 

Interesting angle, how do you 'become' a poor CEO?

 

Can this be loosely translated that RL used to be a good CEO when he had a ground full of 30k fans every week and a GBP25m sponsorship from Sky, but now he has 12k fans and limited external funding he's not very good?

 

What a lovely micro-cosm of the rather sad state of both our football club and the bigger picture. Far from RL being some sort of financial genius who 'got SMS built' we now find he's actually much like the rest of us; in fact he's just like the Masters of the Universe who have fecked over 90% of the population for a generation to come.

 

In reality you or I could have run Saints equally well in the good times; you or I could probably run it better now.....

 

Is there any single monetary/political (or even footballing!) reason for Jan Nice-But-Dim remaining as manager of this football club when we have just 20 matches to avoid relegation to the third division, which will bring certain admin (in the unlikely event we are not already in it), and quite possibly extinction?

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I think we had every chance at the begining of the season and was hoping that we went on a run that new teams often do and kick on from there. I didnt expect us to be world beaters but I didnt expect to be in this much trouble either.

 

That run never came and beating 2 of the top teams in the division boosted the confidence to kick on but was royaly lost when we got beat by naff teams we shouldnt have had to worry about.

 

There is allot of luck involved with that as we have been unlucky with a few decissions and injurys but we have been very lucky in the fact that KD has at least kept some results looking almost respectable.

 

If the management changes it will be like I said earlier and Wotte will step up. Will he drop McGoldrick when he cant be bothered? Will he un-earth any gems that will play for free and change our team into a defensive fortress combined with free flowing attacking football? Because that IMO is what we need. Our goal difference is so bad we need to not only claw some points but we also need to balence our GD as come the end of the season that might save our bacon.

 

So if we manage to get Lowe the boot, along with anyone else at the top that has caused this, the new chairman will have about 5 mins to get rid of JP and Wotte and bring in someone else that can make this team do the business. And do it for no money!!!

 

The bank knows how much cash is set aside for the management team and that is no doubt within budget. Sack JP and Wotte and surly there contract gets paid up? so thart pcart of the budget will be gone. Where does the money to pay for the replacement come from?

 

I said before if there was a couple of mill in the bank I would gree with you and would want the change to happen as soon as poss. but right now i dont see any other way forward.

thats the reality of it,i just cannot believe the mismangement of finances last season spending money on top of the loss of the parachute payments which forced us into a firesale this season.

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Interesting angle, how do you 'become' a poor CEO?

 

Can this be loosely translated that RL used to be a good CEO when he had a ground full of 30k fans every week and a GBP25m sponsorship from Sky, but now he has 12k fans and limited external funding he's not very good?

 

What a lovely micro-cosm of the rather sad state of both our football club and the bigger picture. Far from RL being some sort of financial genius who 'got SMS built' we now find he's actually much like the rest of us; in fact he's just like the Masters of the Universe who have fecked over 90% of the population for a generation to come.

 

In reality you or I could have run Saints equally well in the good times; you or I could probably run it better now.....

 

Is there any single monetary/political (or even footballing!) reason for Jan Nice-But-Dim remaining as manager of this football club when we have just 20 matches to avoid relegation to the third division, which will bring certain admin (in the unlikely event we are not already in it), and quite possibly extinction?

 

Yes, the reality is that life was rather easier for Rupert when Sky money was flowing in but he did manage it well on 15000 gates in the late 90s, got SMS built on time and budget and brought in good managers - Jones (IMO), Hoddle and WGS. He made one mistake with Gray but didn't learn from it and didn't just stop at repeating it with Wigley either.

 

I think Rupert did actually realise in 2003/4 that we badly needed investment to become a regular top 10 club but he was so wedded to Askham and co and at 6% shareholding he was a bit stuck for how to move forward. He thought he could beat the system and "grow our own" (Saints had actually being doing this for decades anyway apart from a dry spell under Askham where the club wasn't invested in and rotted) but the fantasy took our eye off of the ball in 2004/5 as relegation became a distracted first CCC season as the first team became a non-priority and we lost our focus. After the failed fantasy, the Theo money became a "Warchest" and unable to provide a clear vision, Lowe fell to Wilde. Wilde appointed some bad cookies - Hone and co. and the situation of 05/06 where Lowe "didn't know where the next penny was coming from" snowballed under Wilde and Hone and Lowe can't be blamed for that but is a utter fallacy to say Lowe left the club in great shape in 2006. Anyone to tries to spin that on here shouldn't be given credibility.

 

In answer to your 2nd question - JP shouldn't have been appointed in the first place and wasn't right for the circumstances and the good judgement that Rupert showed, aided by Sky in the late 90s and early 00s is gone.

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lowe goes,that will put 5-10,000 on the gate,simple.

 

Don't that many are staying away because of him, TBH. But a change of manager that gets the team competing again, now that would bring folk back.

 

Times are tough - those who go to SMS because they are Saints fans more than for any other reason might still choose to go whatever is happening on the pitch, but those who normally make choices about what to do with their money and their Saturday afternoons may not feel that the cost is worth it.

 

Everyone loves a survival story, and the British love the underdog. If someone came in (like NP) and turned the team around so that they showed some fight, determination and passion, rather than looking like so many headless chickens, you could bet that gates would increase. We need feelgood stories to get us through the recession.

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Why is it pointless ?

 

You are right. It isn't pointless. Indeed it seems to be designed to do maximum damage to the club that these idiots claim to love. All these demonstrations can possibly achieve is 1) to create a further sense of unrest that undermines the effort of the players and management to address the dire playing situation we are in and make it even more likely we will be relegated 2) annoy the majority of supporters 3) (possibly) drive Lowe and his cronies into an even more defensive posture that leads to the sort of absurd action take against David Armstrong. What exactly are people protesting about? The fact that we are in a desparate financial situation that has forced us to take the Dutch solution? Well its not news but it is way too late. Wa£$23s like Ewell have already been signed on ludicrous contracts; decent blokes like Rasiak and John have already been paid way way too much for a club with our income. We have been living beyond our means. That has not been helped by the number of fair weather supporters who have deserted us. Drastic measures have had to be taken to SAVE the club and yes its painful. Or are they protesting to get rid of Lowe? Not a bad medium term goal actually but not made more likely by these protests. Only if we have a stable club can we work towards that one. Removing him now would simply create more instability and possibly administration and all that would entail - including losing SMS and ground-sharing - presumably with Bournemouth.

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We aren't that big a club. Some might pretend, but even without Lowe, we won't get 25,000 for a poor CCC team. I wish we would. I wish we had fans there just to watch Saints regardless of league. No doubt we do have many good fans who'd watch regardless, maybe 11,000 or so. But we have a larger number who get more excited about losing to Man Utd and pack out the stadium for that.

 

Prove me wrong, I'll be delighted. If Lowe goes, let's see us average 25,000 in league 1. People can be as cynical as they want, but a crowd like that in league 1 gives you a huge edge financially compared with other clubs in the league. That's why big clubs come back. Man City did, Forest and Wednesday have to some extent, and I'm sure Leeds will end up back in the Premiership within a few years.

 

I agree with 99% of that post but do remember Adrian that the pricing HAS to be appropriate. Leeds are the best example of this too - they got poor gates (15-18/19k) regularly in one of their early (possibly 04/05) seasons as Bates was charging far too much even though the team were doing well. A modest adjustment the following season even though Leeds were doing not so well saw the gates in the high 20s & 30k region+ again.

 

Moreover, Leeds fans were at least paying for some players you could recognise. Mugs like us are shelling out pretty good money for raw kids - in the case of Lallana, Mills and Gobern I don't mind as much as they will be fine players, possibly in the PL but I'm not even sure the likes of Lancashire and McG will even make it in the professional game. I think McG will be a Drew Broughton type player - made his debut at 17 in CCC equivalent but lost his way seems to be at a different League 2 club every season and scores about 15 goals.

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You are right. It isn't pointless. Indeed it seems to be designed to do maximum damage to the club that these idiots claim to love. All these demonstrations can possibly achieve is 1) to create a further sense of unrest that undermines the effort of the players and management to address the dire playing situation we are in and make it even more likely we will be relegated 2) annoy the majority of supporters 3) (possibly) drive Lowe and his cronies into an even more defensive posture that leads to the sort of absurd action take against David Armstrong. What exactly are people protesting about? The fact that we are in a desparate financial situation that has forced us to take the Dutch solution? Well its not news but it is way too late. Wa£$23s like Ewell have already been signed on ludicrous contracts; decent blokes like Rasiak and John have already been paid way way too much for a club with our income. We have been living beyond our means. That has not been helped by the number of fair weather supporters who have deserted us. Drastic measures have had to be taken to SAVE the club and yes its painful. Or are they protesting to get rid of Lowe? Not a bad medium term goal actually but not made more likely by these protests. Only if we have a stable club can we work towards that one. Removing him now would simply create more instability and possibly administration and all that would entail - including losing SMS and ground-sharing - presumably with Bournemouth.

 

Ground-sharing with Bournemouth! Lol! There are elements of merit in this post but I've noticed a tendency in your posts to blame the fans. Also VS, who signed Rasiak - you'll find it was Rupert Lowe and it broke the wage celing. We were not "forced" to take the Dutch experiment, it was a CONCIOUS CHOICE by the board and even on the breadline, it was not the only game in town. Appointing someone with a UK scouting network that could have found gems in Leagues 1 & 2 and even the SPL would have been far better and wouldn't have cost much more at all. In fact, we've spent more money by employing Gorre since and wasted money on loan players we haven't used.

 

Not having a pop but please let's pack in this "it's all the fans fault". It wasn't people's fault that Woolworth's went bust, it was badly run and lacked vision and direction. Not much different to SFC. I don't deny that Wilde and Hone did the club a lot of harm 2006-8, the decision to sign Euell let alone pay him a £200k retainer is stupid and whoever did it needs shooting. But let's not pretend like the OS does that everything occured 2006-8, we know better.

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Ground-sharing with Bournemouth! Lol! There are elements of merit in this post but I've noticed a tendency in your posts to blame the fans. Also VS, who signed Rasiak - you'll find it was Rupert Lowe and it broke the wage celing. We were not "forced" to take the Dutch experiment, it was a CONCIOUS CHOICE by the board and even on the breadline, it was not the only game in town. Appointing someone with a UK scouting network that could have found gems in Leagues 1 & 2 and even the SPL would have been far better and wouldn't have cost much more at all. In fact, we've spent more money by employing Gorre since and wasted money on loan players we haven't used.

 

Not having a pop but please let's pack in this "it's all the fans fault". It wasn't people's fault that Woolworth's went bust, it was badly run and lacked vision and direction. Not much different to SFC. I don't deny that Wilde and Hone did the club a lot of harm 2006-8, the decision to sign Euell let alone pay him a £200k retainer is stupid and whoever did it needs shooting. But let's not pretend like the OS does that everything occured 2006-8, we know better.

 

I can see where VS was coming from but wouldnt put blame on the fans as such. Sure there is plenty we can do to improve this situation but the problems at the club are the route of the lack of supporters.

 

I know my ole man and my bro wont be re-newing there season ticket next year and they wont get another until there is something worth watching at SMS. My dad cant stand rupes and blames him for everything including the cost of petrol a few months back but his main reason for giving up is purly a lack of entertainment. He has bettker things to spend his money on. my bro has a new born and like wise he now has better things to spend his cash on than throwing it away on a team and club that doesnt have the get up and go to fight for its own exsistance. if they cant do it then why should we?

 

A few years ago there would have been no way these season tickets been given up as they are right on the half way line and just in front of the muppets that supposedly run our club. the kind of seats that once lost will never be returned. yet now they will be gone and will probably still be empty for a few years to come.

 

So the club (through its actions) have buggered things up to the point that everyday fans cant be bothered any more. If rupes came out begging and screeming for the fans to come back I still doubt there would be much change, not because rupes is still there but because the team dont have it in them to punish teams, or dig in and become hard to beat. without these qualities its hardly surprising fans cant be bothered any more.

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Lee Hoos thought he was a great wheeler dealer at buying players - I mean we did great to bring in Euell, John, BWP, Skacel, Thomas, Rasiak and Saganowski on inflated fees and wages!

 

But according to Jim Hone the only way of getting a takeover was to spend money on these sorts of players!

 

Anyone know where Jim Hone and Andy Oldknow are now?

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Lee Hoos thought he was a great wheeler dealer at buying players - I mean we did great to bring in Euell, John, BWP, Skacel, Thomas, Rasiak and Saganowski on inflated fees and wages!

 

But according to Jim Hone the only way of getting a takeover was to spend money on these sorts of players!

 

Anyone know where Jim Hone and Andy Oldknow are now?

 

Enjoying their leisure time drinking in a bar with those ex bankers who thought CDOs and synthetic asset backed securities were a good idea.

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Interesting angle, how do you 'become' a poor CEO?

 

Can this be loosely translated that RL used to be a good CEO when he had a ground full of 30k fans every week and a GBP25m sponsorship from Sky, but now he has 12k fans and limited external funding he's not very good?

 

 

I think you just answered your own question. Running a canny chocolate shop when people were falling over themselves to buy expensive organic chocolate is easy, but if you only sell Cadbury's and the punters don't really want it, you might just need to be more inventive, and do more to entice the buyers back, i.e. you need to be a better CEO than when times were easy.

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I think you just answered your own question. Running a canny chocolate shop when people were falling over themselves to buy expensive organic chocolate is easy, but if you only sell Cadbury's and the punters don't really want it, you might just need to be more inventive, and do more to entice the buyers back, i.e. you need to be a better CEO than when times were easy.

 

If he stopped farting about selling chocolate perhaps we might actually improve the football team.

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I think you just answered your own question. Running a canny chocolate shop when people were falling over themselves to buy expensive organic chocolate is easy, but if you only sell Cadbury's and the punters don't really want it, you might just need to be more inventive, and do more to entice the buyers back, i.e. you need to be a better CEO than when times were easy.

 

Chocolate Export Officer?

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