LGBT+ Discussion

[benjii]

Anyway, we've cleared up that men can have vaginas, so that's progress.

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Na, you're not convincing me.

You're doing that thing again where I tell you what I believe and then you tell me what I actually believe based on the image you have of me in your head. If you won't accept what I'm telling you my views are then you'd be better off not engaging.

[hypochondriac]

53 minutes ago, benjii said:

Caster Semenya has a vagina.

 

17 minutes ago, benjii said:

Anyway, we've cleared up that men can have vaginas, so that's progress.

Semenya has a deficiency that only affects males. He was likely born with an underdeveloped penis that can sometimes resemble a vagina but it cannpt biogically be one. 

[aintforever]

15 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You're doing that thing again where I tell you what I believe and then you tell me what I actually believe based on the image you have of me in your head. If you won't accept what I'm telling you my views are then you'd be better off not engaging.

Your concern for the welfare of criminals in jail is about as convincing as that of the Millwall fans concern for the level of Police funding during the BLM stuff. That's just my opinion.

Edited April 17 by aintforever

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

Your concern for the welfare of criminals in jail is about as convincing as that of the Millwall fans concern for the level of Police funding during the BLM stuff. That's just my opinion.

I'm not sure what you'd be basing that on given that I've never given my opinion on female prisoners or prisoners generally beyond suggesting I could possibly support the death penalty for incidents like Southport. 

[benjii]

No matter how much I scrunch my cock up, it doesnae look like a fanny.

[egg]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Na, you're not convincing me.

Yep. The faux concern doesn't convince me either. 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, egg said:

Yep. The faux concern doesn't convince me either. 

Ah yes the incredibly neutral and totally unbiased poster on a mongboard speaks! Couldn't possibly fathom that someone could have empathy and care about groups of people outside of themselves. You should try it some time. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Your concern for the welfare of criminals in jail is about as convincing as that of the Millwall fans concern for the level of Police funding during the BLM stuff.

It wasn’t clever or funny the first time you wrote it….. Keep trying 

Edited April 17 by Lord Duckhunter

[egg]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Ah yes the incredibly neutral and totally unbiased poster on a mongboard speaks! Couldn't possibly fathom that someone could have empathy and care about groups of people outside of themselves. You should try it some time. 

Many do, but I've read your shite for years mate, and as I say, you don't convince me that your interest in this issue is centred around female safety. 

Being the fair minded man you claim to be, you'll respect my right to that opinion I'm sure. 

[hypochondriac]

*Here is what I believe. 

*No you don't believe that, you believe this. 

*I'm telling you I don't believe that. 

*You say you don't believe that but when you say you don't I know what you really mean is that you do. 

*Seriously I've told you what I believe. 

*that's not convincing enough. 

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Many do, but I've read your shite for years mate, and as I say, you don't convince me that your interest in this issue is centred around female safety. 

Being the fair minded man you claim to be, you'll respect my right to that opinion I'm sure. 

You've got no idea what my opinion on women's safety is because you have nothing to base it on other than your own bigotry and bias. As I recall you spent a significant amount of time trying to persuade me that a biological man is in fact a woman if they say they are so I can't imagine you're overly thrilled at this turn of events. 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You've got no idea what my opinion on women's safety is because you have nothing to base it on other than your own bigotry and bias. As I recall you spent a significant amount of time trying to persuade me that a biological man is in fact a woman if they say they are so I can't imagine you're overly thrilled at this turn of events. 

Bless. You'd ignore my opinion if your crusade wasn't all about how you appear. 

As to the rest, the issue had gotten out of hand, sports governing bodies were at issue with each other, our law unclear, etc. Olympic rules were what they were, but your bigotry shone through on that issue.

Clarity was needed, we now have it in the context of our law. Issue over for me. 

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, egg said:

How women and girls are impacted by this is very different to how we as men are impacted by it. You've had a bee in your bonnet about this issue that goes way beyond a sense of security for them. 

To be fair, if I ever use a loo near to where Soggy's trans wo/man lives, at least I know I'm not going to have a bearded lady staring jealously at my little fella. So there's that I gues..

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Bless. You'd ignore my opinion if your crusade wasn't all about how you appear. 

As to the rest, the issue had gotten out of hand, sports governing bodies were at issue with each other, our law unclear, etc. Olympic rules were what they were, but your bigotry shone through on that issue.

Clarity was needed, we now have it in the context of our law. Issue over for me. 

My desire to not have women deprived of sporting opportunities due to men is what shone through. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

To be fair, if I ever use a loo near to where Soggy's trans wo/man lives, at least I know I'm not going to have a bearded lady staring jealously at my little fella. So there's that I gues..

I’m surprised SOG’s trans mate still talks to him given that he refers to them as a noun (you’re a trans)

[egg]

47 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

My desire to not have women deprived of sporting opportunities due to men is what shone through. 

You're a true hero Hypo 💙 

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

I’m surprised SOG’s trans mate still talks to him given that he refers to them as a noun (you’re a trans)

I refer to him by his name. I mentioned here that he had transitioned (trans male) because it is pertinent to the discussion.

Transgener people refer to themselves as “trans” as an abbreviation. If it doesn’t bother them I’m surprised that it is an issue for you.

Edited April 17 by sadoldgit

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I refer to him by his name. I mentioned here that he had transitioned (trans male) because it is pertinent to the discussion.

Transgener people refer to themselves as “trans” as an abbreviation. If it doesn’t bother them I’m surprised that it is an issue for you.

He still doesn't understand!!! 😝

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

He still doesn't understand!!! 😝

He does. He just obfuscates when he’s been called out, and then carries on pretending he’s not an awful person who types some horrible language.

[Turkish]

6 hours ago, whelk said:

I’m surprised SOG’s trans mate still talks to him given that he refers to them as a noun (you’re a trans)

Imaginary friends are always there for you

[Turkish]

10 hours ago, aintforever said:

Na, you're not convincing me.

Just as well he doesn’t have to then 

[Turkish]

9 hours ago, benjii said:

No matter how much I scrunch my cock up, it doesnae look like a fanny.

Try pushing it down between your legs and then crossing them, fingers over nipples too for maximum effect 👍

 

[benjii]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

Try pushing it down between your legs and then crossing them, fingers over nipples too for maximum effect 👍

 

Oh yeah, I do that all the time. But that's just hiding your fella, it's not making it look like a crevice.

[Turkish]

I hope this doesn’t mean they’ll no longer put tampons in the men’s toilets 😭😭😭😭

[Sarnia Cherie]

I hope this ruling makes the younger generation stop and think about what it means to be transgender. There will always be some who are convinced they should be the other gender but far too many young people and by that I mean under 21-25's are making the life changing decision to change sex. As a teenager I changed my mind all the time about things. Those wishing to change should have to get past the experimental stages of sexual orientation and have to live in that other gender for a couple of years until they are absolutely certain they are doing the right thing. As it is there are young people going to court saying that nobody challenged their decisions and made it all too easy and they now regret it. 

[Turkish]

😂😂🤦

[AlexLaw76]

Good to read that the Prime Minister, along with many other ministers, now know what a woman is, and always championed them

😂

[Holmes_and_Watson]

40 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Good to read that the Prime Minister, along with many other ministers, now know what a woman is, and always championed them

😂

And others, in the Shortbread Assembly, over reaching themselves to keep to discredited views.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-disgrace-of-holyrood/

[AlexLaw76]

6 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

And others, in the Shortbread Assembly, over reaching themselves to keep to discredited views.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-disgrace-of-holyrood/

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

There is a lot of appalling reverse ferreting going on. This is just another example of what a honourless, morally bankrupt lot they are.

Also from Wings (which is a great source for how such subjects can take over a parliament, and how much it takes before it's stopped). Can be applied to any topic you like.

Trans women with penises can use female toilets, says shadow education secretary

Remarks sows fresh confusion over Labour’s gender stance

25 June 2024 • 3:03pm

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Shadow education secretary Bridget Phillipson Credit: WIKTOR SZYMANOWICZ/SHUTTERSTOCK

Trans women with penises could use female lavatories under Labour’s plans to make gender change easier, the shadow education secretary has said.

Bridget Phillipson said that a trans woman who had a gender recognition certificate (GRC) “would be using female toilets” if they had not had reassignment surgery.

[Turkish]

[Turkish]

[Holmes_and_Watson]

"Trans former judge plans to challenge gender ruling at European court"

What have giant robots got to get involved for, I thought.

 

Turns out not to be that...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9qw2149yelo

 

 

[sadoldgit]

On 18/04/2025 at 18:44, Sarnia Cherie said:

I hope this ruling makes the younger generation stop and think about what it means to be transgender. There will always be some who are convinced they should be the other gender but far too many young people and by that I mean under 21-25's are making the life changing decision to change sex. As a teenager I changed my mind all the time about things. Those wishing to change should have to get past the experimental stages of sexual orientation and have to live in that other gender for a couple of years until they are absolutely certain they are doing the right thing. As it is there are young people going to court saying that nobody challenged their decisions and made it all too easy and they now regret it. 

It is a decision that you are not likely to change your mind about though is it. The process takes a long while which gives people plenty of time to think about it. From what I understand, by the time most people reach the point where they start the transgender process, they are just desperate to get it done. It is very easy to judge if you are not in that position, but for those who believe they have been born into the wrong body, perhaps we should listen to them and respect their decision.

As for the city’s decision, it just makes matters worse. This judge, despite living as a woman and doing nobody any harm, is expected to go into a Gents toilet. Can you imagine the reaction?

I get that women want their safe places, but how are they at risk from a trans woman who no longer has men’s sex organs? Recently there was a story about a lesbian who attacked women in women’s loos. Imagine if you are a women and someone walks into the loo you are in with a beard and clearly looking every inch a man? Has this person been born a woman or is it a man pretending to have been born a women. Are we going to have sec police in toilets checking that everyone as the right “equipment” for that particular loo?

We seem to be at the same point as with migrants in small boats. We are lead to believe that they are mostly terrorists and rapists - “young men of fighting age” is the way they are described by those wanting to demonise them. Trans people now are painted mostly as people trying to use that identity to commit sex crimes.There will always be people trying to use situations for their own nefarious  reasons. I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of transgender people just want to live their lives in peace and don’t cause anybody else any problems.

[Sarnia Cherie]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

It is a decision that you are not likely to change your mind about though is it. The process takes a long while which gives people plenty of time to think about it. From what I understand, by the time most people reach the point where they start the transgender process, they are just desperate to get it done. It is very easy to judge if you are not in that position, but for those who believe they have been born into the wrong body, perhaps we should listen to them and respect their decision.

As for the city’s decision, it just makes matters worse. This judge, despite living as a woman and doing nobody any harm, is expected to go into a Gents toilet. Can you imagine the reaction?

I get that women want their safe places, but how are they at risk from a trans woman who no longer has men’s sex organs? Recently there was a story about a lesbian who attacked women in women’s loos. Imagine if you are a women and someone walks into the loo you are in with a beard and clearly looking every inch a man? Has this person been born a woman or is it a man pretending to have been born a women. Are we going to have sec police in toilets checking that everyone as the right “equipment” for that particular loo?

We seem to be at the same point as with migrants in small boats. We are lead to believe that they are mostly terrorists and rapists - “young men of fighting age” is the way they are described by those wanting to demonise them. Trans people now are painted mostly as people trying to use that identity to commit sex crimes.There will always be people trying to use situations for their own nefarious  reasons. I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of transgender people just want to live their lives in peace and don’t cause anybody else any problems.

I agree with a lot of what you have said but I feel there is a worrying trend towards younger and younger boys and girls deciding they are in the wrong body. My 13 year old granddaughter has a boy in her class who maintains he is a girl. Perhaps he is meant to be a girl and may, one day, live as one but does he know that for sure at just 13? 

There should be a place for everyone in this world and transgenders should have their own toilets and safe spaces. There are already toilets for neuro-diverse so it can be done. Today the Scottish FA have stated that they are banning transgenders from women's football. I think that is right but they need to have sports open to transgenders to compete like for like. Transgenders should not be excluded  but steps need to be taken and quickly for them to live as they have chosen and to be able to compete in sports if they so wish.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

It is a decision that you are not likely to change your mind about though is it. The process takes a long while which gives people plenty of time to think about it. From what I understand, by the time most people reach the point where they start the transgender process, they are just desperate to get it done. It is very easy to judge if you are not in that position, but for those who believe they have been born into the wrong body, perhaps we should listen to them and respect their decision.

As for the city’s decision, it just makes matters worse. This judge, despite living as a woman and doing nobody any harm, is expected to go into a Gents toilet. Can you imagine the reaction?

I get that women want their safe places, but how are they at risk from a trans woman who no longer has men’s sex organs? Recently there was a story about a lesbian who attacked women in women’s loos. Imagine if you are a women and someone walks into the loo you are in with a beard and clearly looking every inch a man? Has this person been born a woman or is it a man pretending to have been born a women. Are we going to have sec police in toilets checking that everyone as the right “equipment” for that particular loo?

We seem to be at the same point as with migrants in small boats. We are lead to believe that they are mostly terrorists and rapists - “young men of fighting age” is the way they are described by those wanting to demonise them. Trans people now are painted mostly as people trying to use that identity to commit sex crimes.There will always be people trying to use situations for their own nefarious  reasons. I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of transgender people just want to live their lives in peace and don’t cause anybody else any problems.

Firstly that's not what the evidence from the Tavistock showed which was a big reason why it was scrapped. There's a growing number of detransitioners speaking out to say that they were on a medical pathway that they bitterly regret and which has left them with irreversible damage. For those who are anorexic and believe they are fat, perhaps we should listen to them and respect their decision to starve themselves. 

Who are you to tell women that they aren't at risk from biological males in their spaces? All the evidence suggests that so called trans women are no less a risk to women than other biological men with some evidence to suggest that the risk they present is actually higher. What you now have is the cultural norm that women's spaces are for biological women only. Absolutely no one has said that all people who call themselves trans are al rapists, simply that biological men present some sort of risk to women because women cannot tell which ones are the bad ones. Making it socially and legally unacceptable for biological men to use women's loos will provide some greater measure of safety for all women. 

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

I agree with a lot of what you have said but I feel there is a worrying trend towards younger and younger boys and girls deciding they are in the wrong body. My 13 year old granddaughter has a boy in her class who maintains he is a girl. Perhaps he is meant to be a girl and may, one day, live as one but does he know that for sure at just 13? 

There should be a place for everyone in this world and transgenders should have their own toilets and safe spaces. There are already toilets for neuro-diverse so it can be done. Today the Scottish FA have stated that they are banning transgenders from women's football. I think that is right but they need to have sports open to transgenders to compete like for like. Transgenders should not be excluded  but steps need to be taken and quickly for them to live as they have chosen and to be able to compete in sports if they so wish.

No transgender people are excluded from sport. Like everyone else they are restricted to playing sport with members of their own sex. 

[egg]

@Sarnia Cherie the Trans/Neuro divergent comparison doesn't sit well with me. A 13 year old with Autism doesn't decide to have it. A 13 year old who decides to be another sex is making a decision, and one they cannot reasonably make imo. 

[hypochondriac]

33 minutes ago, egg said:

@Sarnia Cherie the Trans/Neuro divergent comparison doesn't sit well with me. A 13 year old with Autism doesn't decide to have it. A 13 year old who decides to be another sex is making a decision, and one they cannot reasonably make imo. 

Agree with that. I see that the NHS are also going to test for autism in all those young people who say they are transgender which is a great idea too. 

[egg]

Interesting. There needs to be a proper look at kids who feel that they identify as a different sex. Some will be correct, but it's bloody complex, and and some may be acting out either deliberately or as a result of something going on. 

 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Interesting. There needs to be a proper look at kids who feel that they identify as a different sex. Some will be correct, but it's bloody complex, and and some may be acting out either deliberately or as a result of something going on. 

 

There's very clearly an element of social contagion and a desire to be different and special (similar to goths, grunge etc) for some of these children along with trauma as you say and the evidence suggests a greater likelihood to identify like this if you have autism (probably because they see things in a more black and white way.) 

Whatever someone thinks of the issue, it's clearly the right thing to do to prevent any sort of permanent transition or harm with things like puberty blockers until they are adult and can do what they like to their bodies within reason. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

14 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

No transgender people are excluded from sport. Like everyone else they are restricted to playing sport with members of their own sex. 

That's what I said but with the recent Supreme Court ruling transgenders will no longer be able to compete in women's events but should be able to take part in transgender categories. 

Edited 15 hours ago by Sarnia Cherie
change word

[Sarnia Cherie]

14 hours ago, egg said:

@Sarnia Cherie the Trans/Neuro divergent comparison doesn't sit well with me. A 13 year old with Autism doesn't decide to have it. A 13 year old who decides to be another sex is making a decision, and one they cannot reasonably make imo. 

I wasn't comparing an autistic teenager to one with transgender concerns. I was just saying that toilets for neuro diverse are available in some places so there should not be a problem with designated toilets for transgender people. I agree with you that 13 is way too young.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

That's what I said but with the recent Supreme Court ruling transgenders will no longer be able to compete in women's events but should be able to take part in transgender categories. 

I don't think a transgender category would have enough people to make it worthwhile. They can still compete just with their biological sex. 

Edited 14 hours ago by hypochondriac

[egg]

16 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

I wasn't comparing an autistic teenager to one with transgender concerns. I was just saying that toilets for neuro diverse are available in some places so there should not be a problem with designated toilets for transgender people. I agree with you that 13 is way too young.

I appreciate you weren't making a direct comparison, but your point was that as we have toilets for neuro diverse people, then we can make it happen for trans people, ie giving competitive treatment. For me the two issues are wholly different, and I support dedicated loos for neuro divergent people, but not trans. 

[egg]

23 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

That's what I said but with the recent Supreme Court ruling transgenders will no longer be able to compete in women's events but should be able to take part in transgender categories. 

That creates a 3rd category, ie recognising transgender people differently to male and females. We now clear definitions of male and female and I'm not persuaded that it's necessary to seek to introduce a 3rd category in some areas of society. 

[Turkish]