Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said: Surely the result of a football match is the belief in the existence of something - namely that there will be a result in said football match! Or does your binary yes / no option only apply to certain situations, in which case, what are they? The result of a football match does not exist two days before the match. You were asking for the outcome of an event that hasn't happened. The god question concerns the existence of something in the present, so they are very different scenarios that aren't relevant to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Lack of a belief is not a belief. You either believe a god exists or you do not currently believe a god exists. It is binary, one or the other. FFS, it really isn't. Don't know is a perfectly credible alternative. Will England beat Germany? Is their a lady in Peru currently wearing odd socks and singing? Will it rain on Christmas day? I don't know is my answer to all 3, and one of the questions is in the present. Edited 27 June, 2021 by egg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 1 minute ago, egg said: FFS, it really isn't. Don't know is a perfectly credible alternative. Will England beat Germany? Is their a lady in Peru currently wearing odd socks and singing? Will it rain on Christmas day? I don't know is my answer to all 3. Sure, 'I don't know' is a perfectly reasonable answer to all of those questions. So what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 Why does MLG do this to every thread ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said: The result of a football match does not exist two days before the match. You were asking for the outcome of an event that hasn't happened. The god question concerns the existence of something in the present, so they are very different scenarios that aren't relevant to each other. Of course it does! It exists on the wall charts of thousands of kids up and down the country! Why does the god question concern the existence of something in the present? Surely that's just your interpretation of the question! I would imagine those that are hoping to meet their maker are basing that hope on a future encounter not the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 Just now, Matthew Le God said: Sure, 'I don't know' is a perfectly reasonable answer to all of those questions. So what? Then it's also a perfectly reasonable answer to whether a person currently believes that a god exists. In your world, we get it, it's binary but to others I don't know is the correct and truthful answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 Just now, badgerx16 said: Why does MLG do this to every thread ? Dunno, but I have nothing much to do for the next half hour and I can't be arsed to watch the telly so this'll do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Sure, 'I don't know' is a perfectly reasonable answer to all of those questions. So what? So why isn't it a perfectly reasonable answer to the question "does god exist"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 11 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: You either believe a god exists or you do not currently believe a god exists. It is binary, one or the other. I've decided to change my mind on the matter every 0.02 seconds, which will make it impossible to answer the "Are you an atheist?" question on an internet football forum because by the time I hit the 'reply' button the answer I gave could be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 Just now, Weston Super Saint said: 1) Of course it does! It exists on the wall charts of thousands of kids up and down the country! 2) Why does the god question concern the existence of something in the present? Surely that's just your interpretation of the question! I would imagine those that are hoping to meet their maker are basing that hope on a future encounter not the present. 1) Those are predictions about what the result might be, not the actual result. 2) Existence is temporal, so a question regarding god's existence regards the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Why do you disagree? Why do you disagree with me disagreeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said: So why isn't it a perfectly reasonable answer to the question "does god exist"? Indeed mate. He's agreed that something that we can't know the answer to, in the present not future, can be answered "I don't know" thus it surely applies to the "does God exist" question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 3 minutes ago, egg said: Then it's also a perfectly reasonable answer to whether a person currently believes that a god exists. In your world, we get it, it's binary but to others I don't know is the correct and truthful answer. A question of 'Do you belief in a god' cannot be answered with 'I don't know'. You either do or you don't currently believe in a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 4 minutes ago, trousers said: Why do you disagree with me disagreeing? Going round in circles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, egg said: Indeed mate. He's agreed that something that we can't know the answer to, in the present not future, can be answered "I don't know" thus it surely applies to the "does God exist" question. None of the other questions concerned a belief in the existence of something so were fallacies. Edited 27 June, 2021 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: A question of 'Do you belief in a god' cannot be answered with 'I don't know'. You either do or you don't currently believe in a god. What about "perhaps", "possibly", or "maybe" ? Edited 27 June, 2021 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 Just now, Matthew Le God said: A question of 'Do you belief in a god' cannot be answered with 'I don't know'. You either do or you don't currently believe in a god. Bollox. Anyone can be unsure or undecided. Answering yes or no to something, when the true answer is I don't l know, is dishonest. I asjwd the question to my wife and she answered I don't know. Why must she give a dishonest answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Going round in circles! Only because of your pedantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: A question of 'Do you belief in a god' cannot be answered with 'I don't know'. You either do or you don't currently believe in a god. I disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: What about "perhaps", "possibly", or "maybe" ? Nope, concerning a question worded 'do you currently believe in a god?' those answers are invalid. You either believe in a god or you don't. It is a yes or no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: Only because of your pedantry. Questioning bullshit helps us not stagnate in a dark age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 6 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: None of the other questions concerned a belief in the existence of something so were fallacies. OK, do you believe in extraterrestrial life ? This is a question concerning the existence of something, can it only have a binary answer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 16 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: Why does MLG do this to every thread ? Because idiots like ourselves respond...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said: Questioning bullshit helps us not stagnate in a dark age. I disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said: Questioning bullshit helps us not stagnate in a dark age. Questioning bullshit with bullshit only compounds the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 27 June, 2021 Author Share Posted 27 June, 2021 2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Nope, concerning a question worded 'do you currently believe in a god?' those answers are invalid. You either believe in a god or you don't. It is a yes or no question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 4 minutes ago, egg said: Bollox. Anyone can be unsure or undecided. Answering yes or no to something, when the true answer is I don't l know, is dishonest. I asjwd the question to my wife and she answered I don't know. Why must she give a dishonest answer? How do you not know if you believe in the existence of something? Saying you don't believe in it's existence does not mean you think it is impossible for it to exist. Just that at the current time you don't believe in it existing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said: Nope, concerning a question worded 'do you currently believe in a god?' those answers are invalid. You either believe in a god or you don't. It is a yes or no question. It is in your world, not to normal people who live in a non binary world. Saying yes or no when one doesn't know that to be true is a guess. A guess is dishonest. I don't know is honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 1 minute ago, trousers said: Because idiots like ourselves respond...? 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 Just now, Matthew Le God said: How do you not know if you believe in the existence of something? Saying you don't believe in it's existence does not mean you think it is impossible for it to exist. Just that at the current time you don't believe in it existing. Someone above has mentioned whether there's a belief in aliens. There be life out there, there may not. We don't know, so I can't say yes or no. Why is the god question any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 26 minutes ago, egg said: Someone above has mentioned whether there's a belief in aliens. There be life out there, there may not. We don't know, so I can't say yes or no. Why is the god question any different? Alien species aren't a supernatural claim. A god is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said: Alien species aren't a supernatural claim. A god is! Bless. Keep moving your own goalposts. Enjoy your day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 1 hour ago, egg said: Bless. Keep moving your own goalposts. Enjoy your day. Which goalpost do you think that moved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Which goalpost do you think that moved? 1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said: None of the other questions concerned a belief in the existence of something so were fallacies. This one. Edited 27 June, 2021 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 1 minute ago, badgerx16 said: This one. He asked... 'Why is the god question any different? ' I answered that question directly with a reason why they are different. No goalposts moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 11 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: He asked... 'Why is the god question any different? ' I answered that question directly with a reason why they are different. No goalposts moved. Bollocks. You referred to a a question concerning "a belief in the existence of something". Aliens are as valid a subject as deities, you cannot pick and choose which are relevant or valid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboy Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: Bollocks. You referred to a a question concerning "a belief in the existence of something". Aliens are as valid a subject as deities, you cannot pick and choose which are relevant or valid. Oh ….. believe me , he most certainly can ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: Bollocks. You referred to a a question concerning "a belief in the existence of something". Aliens are as valid a subject as deities, you cannot pick and choose which are relevant or valid. Existence by definition is temporal. Gods being outside of time and space is not temporal and so cannot meet a definition of existence. Edited 27 June, 2021 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Existence by definition is temporal. Gods being outside of time and space is not temporal and so cannot meet a definition of existence. You squirm more than a worm on a fishing hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: You squirm more than a worm on a fishing hook. No squirming there at all. It is a valid point which you haven't countered. Existing outside of time is an oxymoron. Time is required to exist by definition. Edited 27 June, 2021 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: No squirming there at all. It is a valid point which you haven't countered. Existing outside of time is an oxymoron. Time is required to exist by definition. Nothing exists. Fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 Just now, trousers said: Nothing exists. Fact. Your post is a glitch in the matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 Just now, Matthew Le God said: No squirming there at all. It is a valid point which you haven't countered. Matthew, you don't win an argument by changing tack every time somebody pulls you up on a point. You posted the opinion that a question on the existence or not of an entity was a binary choice, this was initially challenged by people claiming "I don't know" is a valid response to "Do you belive in God", to which you reiterated that a poll on such a question had to be binary. In response I posed the question on aliens, as positing that query is in exactly the same vein as your original. You now are determining that we are discussing something that "exists" outside time and space, which has never previously been brought into the exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 Just now, Matthew Le God said: Your post is a glitch in the matrix. Ah yes, my best work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: Matthew, you don't win an argument by changing tack every time somebody pulls you up on a point. You posted the opinion that a question on the existence or not of an entity was a binary choice, this was initially challenged by people claiming "I don't know" is a valid response to "Do you belive in God", to which you reiterated that a poll on such a question had to be binary. In response I posed the question on aliens, as positing that query is in exactly the same vein as your original. You now are determining that we are discussing something that "exists" outside time and space, which has never previously been brought into the exchange. His question was 'Why is the god question any different?'. I gave a difference, that is a direct answer to the question he asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: His question was 'Why is the god question any different?'. I gave a difference, that is a direct answer to the question he asked. Correct, you replied "None of the other questions concerned a belief in the existence of something so were fallacies. ". No mention of "existing outside time and space", no claim that the only relevant subjects for your style of questioning are deities. It was only subsequent to the introduction of a question on belief in the existence of aliens that you decided to "clarify" that we were all having to restrict ourselves to discussing non-corporeal entities. Anyway, the paint on our new summer house will have dried by now, so I'm signing off for a while to go and finish it. Edited 27 June, 2021 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 (edited) Is 'Duckhunter and Friends' a spin-off kids TV show? Edited 27 June, 2021 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPY Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 (edited) Can I answer ‘no’ to both: 1) Do you believe in God? 2) Do you disbelieve in God? Edited 27 June, 2021 by ChrisPY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 This thread needs a new title. Duckie has only contributed one post since page 1. How about "Boring farts discuss God.... when they haven't even been drinking" ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted 27 June, 2021 Share Posted 27 June, 2021 Matt's stuff about a baby and other posts about trees and dogs having beliefs and whether or not aliens exist are false equivalents. Religious belief (God of whatever description exists) is a human construct that depends on the believer being capable of understanding the concept. Babies and inanimate objects don't qualify. A belief is not a fact so the point about whether or not aliens exist is also non-equivalent. Also, whether God exists is not a simplistic binary yes or no question. Doubt ie being undecided on an issue or question is also an intrinsic part of human nature. That's clear from many of these posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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