1965onwards Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 ...JP and Wotte pick their team on the basis of performance in training,nothing else can explain the team selections,with the constant changes. This is typical of weak,clueless managers with no man-management skills,and lack of understanding of what makes a player better than others. Most of the greatest players that have ever played the game were poor trainers. They saved their best for matchdays,where they used their most important asset,their brains. Forget tonights second half,you will see far more of the first half from Wotte than the second half.He will be no diffferent than JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 Dutch football is too cute for the Champ - just look at Notts Forest and Doncaster playeing basic simple football with passion and fire in the belly, this experiment is over! Points mean prizes - pretty football dosen't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 He has just stated it is easy to see who should start the next game,this was whilst on the subject of saga. We will see, im sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 I think it's actually fairly obvious that LOWE is picking the team based on the players he isn't trying to drive out of the club to save money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 If Smith starts the next match on the right wing (or at all really), I will cry a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 I think it's actually fairly obvious that LOWE is picking the team based on the players he isn't trying to drive out of the club to save money. +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 I think it's actually fairly obvious that LOWE is picking the team based on the players he isn't trying to drive out of the club to save money. If Crouch was in charge he'd pay to keep/sign a player out of his own pocket. With Lowe the money only flows one way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denzil Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 Le Tiss had it right on Sky news, how can Saga come back from The Champions League and sit on the bench against Norwich. FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 Le Tiss had it right on Sky news, how can Saga come back from The Champions League and sit on the bench against Norwich. FFS. Agreed. Very strange decision! Going back to the original post, it may well be true. I recently spoke to a player and asked him about all things Saints. I happened to ask what Saga was like in training, and his response was, "****, but you know what you get on a matchday with Marek!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 I think it's actually fairly obvious that LOWE is picking the team based on the players he isn't trying to drive out of the club to save money. I think that's quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen written on this forum, and given some of the "characters", that's some feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 Le Tiss had it right on Sky news, how can Saga come back from The Champions League and sit on the bench against Norwich. FFS. Wotte decided his negative formation and bodged a team around it. Someone like Billy davies on the other hand plays to his teams strengths. Playing 1 up front with lalana in a 5 man midfield is a joke. We're in no position to be going away and looking for 0-0 draws, we need wins. Saints teams of old stayed up because we tried to win games when we were in the ****. The second half just showed how wrong Wotte got it. If he'd been positive from the start we would not have invited pressure and been 2-0 down at h/t. The best form of defence is attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 I think that's quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen written on this forum, and given some of the "characters", that's some feat. So you honnestly think Wotte chose not to start Euell, BWP, Saga and Skacel tonight? If that is the case, I retract my above statement and replace it with this one: 'Mark Wotte is an absolutely appaling manager and hasn't got a clue' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 Dave Merrington got on my tits tonight, why does he have to make the same point one hundred times? Dave, if you're talking crap the first time it is still crap after one hundred times. Just shut up if you have nothing worthwhile to contribute and get a proper job. It's bad enough having to endure the commentary of the dross served up by Saints without having the overlay of dross served up by you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 I think that's quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen written on this forum, and given some of the "characters", that's some feat. Of course it is steve.... Please explain, therefore, why his starting line-up was so at odds with his pre-match comments about experienced players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 I think that's quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen written on this forum, and given some of the "characters", that's some feat. SAINTS supporters’ group members have called on fans considering protesting at St Mary’s to do so peacefully and not during games. Steve Grant doesn’t believe protesting will make a difference. However, he has encouraged those who want to do it to keep it peaceful and not while play is in progress. “If you look back to the last time all this kicked off, in 2006, when there were protests all over the place, they didn’t actually seem to have any effect whatsoever on any change being made,” he said. I'd call your Echo comments ridiculous. Who are you speaking on behalf of Steve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 lol. please protest when you get home. and nobody needs to hear is. wait, what do you mean that defeats the purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 oh dear my typping has gone to shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 lol. please protest when you get home. and nobody needs to hear is. wait, what do you mean that defeats the purpose? Jan, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwantsapint Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 OK so dont protest as it wont make any difference But if it makes no difference it dosn't make any odds how loud it is I agree not to be negative the team need backing but it needs to come from whole stadium including center of itchen stand YES I DO MEAN THE CORPORATE & DICTATORS BOXES ( Lowe & Wilde do not direct but dictate ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 I think that's quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen written on this forum, and given some of the "characters", that's some feat. I think this statement is far more ridiculous tha Arizona's!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 27 January, 2009 Share Posted 27 January, 2009 Of course it is steve.... Please explain, therefore, why his starting line-up was so at odds with his pre-match comments about experienced players... I'm starting to get worried. I never thought I would say this, but...... well said Alpine. I too would like to hear an answer to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 I think that's quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen written on this forum, and given some of the "characters", that's some feat. Steve, I'm truly not a conspiracy theorist but even I'm starting to get very cynical. Surely, you have to admit there's something fishy here. Wotte talks up the importance of the senior players and then leaves out a number of those who, in the view of most fans, could help us out of this hole. We get our arses kicked in the first half, he brings some of them on because the alternative is demolition, and things turn around for us. I wouldn't go so far as to say (at least seriously) that Lowe is picking the team, but I'm starting to believe that he's "influencing" team selection. Knowing Rupert it'd be more about not wanting to pay appearance money (which could be quite big, depending on how their contracts are structured) than about some whacky Lowe theory on formation and cohesiveness. You've called this "ridiculous" but pretty much everything that's happening at the club fits into that category. Why not this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Please explain, therefore, why his starting line-up was so at odds with his pre-match comments about experienced players... Er, we had 4 players the "wrong" side of 30 in the starting line-up last night and two more came off the bench, which is more than we've had in any other game this season Paul Wotton made his first start since the beginning of November, and Jason Euell's not even been in the 16 since the Forest game more than a month ago, so he was hardly likely to be straight back into the starting 11. Leaving Saganowski on the bench was a strange one, I'll give you that much. I'd call your Echo comments ridiculous. Who are you speaking on behalf of Steve? I speak on behalf of myself, as always. If the Echo have connected me with any group, they've done so incorrectly. Steve, I'm truly not a conspiracy theorist but even I'm starting to get very cynical. Surely, you have to admit there's something fishy here. Wotte talks up the importance of the senior players and then leaves out a number of those who, in the view of most fans, could help us out of this hole. We get our arses kicked in the first half, he brings some of them on because the alternative is demolition, and things turn around for us. I wouldn't go so far as to say (at least seriously) that Lowe is picking the team, but I'm starting to believe that he's "influencing" team selection. Knowing Rupert it'd be more about not wanting to pay appearance money (which could be quite big, depending on how their contracts are structured) than about some whacky Lowe theory on formation and cohesiveness. You've called this "ridiculous" but pretty much everything that's happening at the club fits into that category. Why not this? Well I'm yet to see any evidence whatsoever apart from people on here saying "the manager's not picking the team I'd pick, therefore it's got to be Lowe picking it" - Wotte's been working with the younger players all season, so he's clearly going to have a mindset where he believes young players can perform at the level required. He said he wants to mix them with "more" experienced players, which doesn't in any way, shape or form say "we're going to have a majority of older players". Looking back through all of the starting lineups from this season, there's not been a single game where we've had as many over-30s in there as we did last night, with a 30- and 31-year-old also coming off the bench. Just because Wotte is a "cheap option", that doesn't mean that he isn't his own man. I'm 100% confident, until I see conclusive evidence to the contrary, he will pick the players he wants to pick without any "interference" from anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 The reports I have heard are that this Molyneuax was poor tonight. Can someone explain why Rudi has been dropped if it isn't Lowes interference. Said something that Lowe didn't like and he gets dropped. So tell me that has nothing to do with Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 The reports I have heard are that this Molyneuax was poor tonight. Can someone explain why Rudi has been dropped if it isn't Lowes interference. Skacel was suspended for the Barnsley game after he got his 5th booking of the season against Man United. Molyneux made his debut in that game and, by all accounts, played well, so kept his place for the next game. If he had a poor game last night, he might find Skacel replacing him for Saturday, but I'd have also thought Wotte would also look at the fact that Skacel is playing out of position at left-back, whereas that position is Molyneux's main position. Also, I guess it's a difficult balancing act in terms of team stability. Many people have (rightly) voiced concerns about the constant chopping and changing of players week-in, week-out, so is it right that LM gets dropped on the basis of one poor game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Skacel was suspended for the Barnsley game after he got his 5th booking of the season against Man United. Molyneux made his debut in that game and, by all accounts, played well, so kept his place for the next game. If he had a poor game last night, he might find Skacel replacing him for Saturday, but I'd have also thought Wotte would also look at the fact that Skacel is playing out of position at left-back, whereas that position is Molyneux's main position. Also, I guess it's a difficult balancing act in terms of team stability. Many people have (rightly) voiced concerns about the constant chopping and changing of players week-in, week-out, so is it right that LM gets dropped on the basis of one poor game? ummm skacel best position is not left back, its midfield, so why isnt he playing there? Euell and Rudi have both gone on record saying that they are being forced out, so Arizona's comment werent that far off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 SAINTS supporters’ group members have called on fans considering protesting at St Mary’s to do so peacefully and not during games. Steve Grant doesn’t believe protesting will make a difference. However, he has encouraged those who want to do it to keep it peaceful and not while play is in progress. “If you look back to the last time all this kicked off, in 2006, when there were protests all over the place, they didn’t actually seem to have any effect whatsoever on any change being made,” he said. I'd call your Echo comments ridiculous. Who are you speaking on behalf of Steve? a good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Er, we had 4 players the "wrong" side of 30 in the starting line-up last night and two more came off the bench, which is more than we've had in any other game this season Paul Wotton made his first start since the beginning of November, and Jason Euell's not even been in the 16 since the Forest game more than a month ago, so he was hardly likely to be straight back into the starting 11. Leaving Saganowski on the bench was a strange one, I'll give you that much. I speak on behalf of myself, as always. If the Echo have connected me with any group, they've done so incorrectly. Well I'm yet to see any evidence whatsoever apart from people on here saying "the manager's not picking the team I'd pick, therefore it's got to be Lowe picking it" - Wotte's been working with the younger players all season, so he's clearly going to have a mindset where he believes young players can perform at the level required. He said he wants to mix them with "more" experienced players, which doesn't in any way, shape or form say "we're going to have a majority of older players". Looking back through all of the starting lineups from this season, there's not been a single game where we've had as many over-30s in there as we did last night, with a 30- and 31-year-old also coming off the bench. Just because Wotte is a "cheap option", that doesn't mean that he isn't his own man. I'm 100% confident, until I see conclusive evidence to the contrary, he will pick the players he wants to pick without any "interference" from anyone. can you say that JP had the same luxury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Dave Merrington got on my tits tonight, why does he have to make the same point one hundred times? Dave, if you're talking crap the first time it is still crap after one hundred times. Just shut up if you have nothing worthwhile to contribute and get a proper job. It's bad enough having to endure the commentary of the dross served up by Saints without having the overlay of dross served up by you. Me too. I know the bloke loves saints and yes I know he helped bring Le Tiss through the youth teams etc, but for god's sake play a different tune Dave ...and why on earth can't his fellow commentators just give him a simple phonetic spelling of the players' names. The first time you hear him **** up a name it is mildly amusing ..the thirty-first time it is irritating. He's paid to be a commentator now, not a comedy act. It is unprofessional of him to make so little attempt at learning the players names. K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 its simple...2 hats, one with the names of the youngsters in and one with the names of the elders in. the keeper is a shoe in so he doesnt go into the hat and nor does McCrap,the youngsters hat is dipped into to form the starting line up and the elders hat forms the subs bench, anybody left in the hat sits in the stands. the hat is the same one used by lowe to pick his managers and the other hat is used to put all of lowes letters of support in,which he dips into at AGM's etc to prove he is popular............oh and the hats are very large cos he's got a bg head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 ummm skacel best position is not left back, its midfield, so why isnt he playing there? Hence why I said "Skacel's being played out of position at left-back", or did you choose to not read that bit? Euell and Rudi have both gone on record saying that they are being forced out, so Arizona's comment werent that far off the mark. It's no real secret that it would be beneficial financially to have the pair of them off the payroll, so I'm sure their names have been touted around on a fairly regular basis. However, they have both played plenty of games this season, at times when others in their position(s) have been fit and available. Euell has perhaps not played as often as I'd have liked, but it wasn't long ago that the popular opinion was that he was a complete waste of space. All of a sudden, because he's an experienced English player who's not getting many games, the popular opinion is now that he's this fantastic player who will turn our season around but isn't being allowed to by that evil man Mr Lowe. a good question. Again, if you chose to read the whole thread rather than the select bits that you wanted to read, you'll have noticed that I've already answered that, although quite what relevance it has to anything, I've no idea. can you say that JP had the same luxury? I've seen no evidence to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 (edited) I think that's quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen written on this forum, and given some of the "characters", that's some feat. I think that's a little unfair Steve. We know there has been a 'Club policy' with regards to selection of players - we have been told this by several of them! I do agree with you that it is unlikely Lowe was picking the team last night from his skiing holiday (where he is currently hiding and failing to provide any hands on leadership during the biggest crisis in Saints history - possibly a good thing mind) . However, there HAS been a clear policy to play kids and marginalise the more experienced - better and more expensive - players into leaving the club. Euell and Skacel have said as much. I think the comment on here reflects concern that Wotte is still reflecting that policy Steve. I think up until the last 25 mins last night - he was, x4 older players in the side isnt enough - we need a minimum of 9 or 10 with kids fighting for one place or on the bench at best if we want to survive. WE HAVE TO STOP THIS CLOGGY KID PLAYING NONSENSE. GET CROUCH IN NOW OR WE DIE. Edited 28 January, 2009 by SaintRobbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 ...JP and Wotte pick their team on the basis of performance in training,nothing else can explain the team selections,with the constant changes. This is typical of weak,clueless managers with no man-management skills,and lack of understanding of what makes a player better than others. Most of the greatest players that have ever played the game were poor trainers. They saved their best for matchdays,where they used their most important asset,their brains. Forget tonights second half,you will see far more of the first half from Wotte than the second half.He will be no diffferent than JP. However they selected their teams, it was based on whoever was on form / uninjured / suspensions and all those factors have played a part this season. As for the lazy " geniuses " you mentioned..yes it's true that Terry Paine, MLT (even oldies like Jimmy Greaves ) hated training, but still had that magic touch and could put the ball in the net. However, I think that such players are fewer than you seem to suggest, and I don't think that Saints have any such players in that category at present. Most top players train hard and need to keep their best form. Which " genius" did you have in mind ..(that Saints have been ignoring this season,)....... if you know of one, let's hear about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Wotte decided his negative formation and bodged a team around it. Someone like Billy davies on the other hand plays to his teams strengths. Playing 1 up front with lalana in a 5 man midfield is a joke. We're in no position to be going away and looking for 0-0 draws, we need wins. Saints teams of old stayed up because we tried to win games when we were in the ****. The second half just showed how wrong Wotte got it. If he'd been positive from the start we would not have invited pressure and been 2-0 down at h/t. The best form of defence is attack. Only a fool of a manager would play the same side home AND away,(except maybe Alex Ferguson), the tactics are different and so should the line-up be. Strange isn't it that we've got so many points away and almost nothing at home....why's that do you think ? If I'd picked that formation 4-1-4-1- I'd say you have to play a big man up front ....and that's McG. 4-4-2 is better suited to Saga + McG, and it seemed to work. Who would have put McLaggon on as first sub ..? not me, I was surprised but the lad got himself a goal. Interestingly, I followed the game on text and at 40 mins, (when the score was still 0-0) the actual possession was Norwich 40% Saints 60% - so it's not as if we were outplayed, but Saga is a trump card in this situation and if Norwich had mastered him in the first half, we'd have had few alternatives. Are you suggesting he'd have got 2-3 goals if he played 90 mins? (In prev. seasons, Wright-Phillips was used as sub. and scored nearly all his goals coming on afte HT. In those games he started, he was almost invisible and not in the action at all.) I think we should start with Saga especially at home, but let's hope he can continue his good start, now that he's back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 didnt JP say something about training a while back? something along the lines of 'i see the players in training everyday and make a judgment on that' when asked about skacel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkiesaint Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 I think that's a little unfair Steve. We know there has been a 'Club policy' with regards to selection of players - we have been told this by several of them! I do agree with you that it is unlikely Lowe was picking the team last night from his skiing holiday (where he is currently hiding and failing to provide any hands on leadership during the biggest crisis in Saints history - possibly a good thing mind) . However, there HAS been a clear policy to play kids and marginalise the more experienced - better and more expensive - players into leaving the club. Euell and Skacel have said as much. I think the comment on here reflects concern that Wotte is still reflecting that policy Steve. I think up until the last 25 mins last night - he was, x4 older players in the side isnt enough - we need a minimum of 9 or 10 with kids fighting for one place or on the bench at best if we want to survive. WE HAVE TO STOP THIS CLOGGY KID PLAYING NONSENSE. GET CROUCH IN NOW OR WE DIE. I too think tha Steve you are wide of the mark. We know from 'Arry that Lowe was pressurising him to pick certain players, pressure that he resisted apart from the mansfield game. While Lowe might not be 'picking' the team, he is certain to be influencing team selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965onwards Posted 28 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 28 January, 2009 David of Sweden. Not suggesting we have any geniuses,but picking a team on training performance is just plain dumb. And everything that has happened this season suggests that that is how the team is picked. Training is all about the physical with no pressure. Games are all 90% mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now