The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[tdmickey3]

23 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

Is it true that the English Language test is being extended to Reform voters?

It should be

[hypochondriac]

What are all these male models doing firebombing Sir Kier's personal property? Apparently refers to himself as Ukrainian which is the same as the other one. Ukrainian terror ring? 

Edited May 20 by hypochondriac

[Lord Duckhunter]

50 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Ukrainian terror ring? 

I think there’s a ring involved….

[hypochondriac]

13 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I think there’s a ring involved….

Looks like the rings been busted. 

[whelk]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

What are all these male models doing firebombing Sir Kier's personal property? Apparently refers to himself as Ukrainian which is the same as the other one. Ukrainian terror ring? 

Maybe he is the lovechild of the affair that was about to break that would bring down Starmer, and just wants dad’s attention?

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, whelk said:

Maybe he is the lovechild of the affair that was about to break that would bring down Starmer, and just wants dad’s attention?

That would be your speculation not mine. In any case, it's certainly animated George Galloway. 

[hypochondriac]

Whatever saintsweb posters think of the government, the public aren't thrilled to put it mildly. 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Whatever saintsweb posters think of the government, the public aren't thrilled to put it mildly. 

Id like to know what they want instead, what they believe the alternative would do, and how much actual thought they'd given the issue. I guarantee a chunk will be benefit benefiting, NHS needing, but want Reform. Bless em. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

and how much actual thought they'd given the issue. 

If only everyone was intelligent as you, the country would be far better off…

[hypochondriac]

40 minutes ago, egg said:

Id like to know what they want instead, what they believe the alternative would do, and how much actual thought they'd given the issue. I guarantee a chunk will be benefit benefiting, NHS needing, but want Reform. Bless em. 

So you can't disagree with the direction of the government without being accused of not giving it enough thought? Plenty of people on the left I've seen disagree vehemently with Labour. Are they similarly hard of thinking? 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If only everyone was intelligent as you, the country would be far better off…

We would be much better off if the gullible thick cunts like you didn’t get hard ons for language like ‘surrender’, ‘humiliation’ , ‘sell-out’ etc - comical how fucking little you understand about these things. Regardless of how many Spectator or Andrew Neil podcasts you listen to

Edited May 20 by whelk

[egg]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If only everyone was intelligent as you, the country would be far better off…

Something we agree on at last 😉

[egg]

45 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

So you can't disagree with the direction of the government without being accused of not giving it enough thought? Plenty of people on the left I've seen disagree vehemently with Labour. Are they similarly hard of thinking? 

What people do about their dissatisfaction is the logical next step. In life, shouldn't people always play the tape forward before making important decisions? Pretty stupid to do otherwise imo. 

Explain how anyone wanting a welfare state and NHS can want reform. Turkeys/Christmas. 

 

[hypochondriac]

51 minutes ago, egg said:

What people do about their dissatisfaction is the logical next step. In life, shouldn't people always play the tape forward before making important decisions? Pretty stupid to do otherwise imo. 

Explain how anyone wanting a welfare state and NHS can want reform. Turkeys/Christmas. 

 

Many people voted Labour because they hated the Tories. Same thing applies. 

[Gloucester Saint]

35 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Many people voted Labour because they hated the Tories. Same thing applies. 

There’s some nuance inbetween as well. A couple of my friends would be in the Dissatisfied camp in that poll but they’ll probably still vote for them (Labour) next time because the Lib Dem’s are pro-EU, which they don’t like, the Tory turmoil made a horrible mess of the supply chain for one of their businesses and thinks Farage and Tice know zero about economics. The other one is ex-Team GB and has trained and competed with loads of medal winners from ethnic minorities who are global household names, for him Reform are the old BNP who would abuse his friends and former team-mates.

English nationalist and pro monarchy but academically not Reform’s demographic at all. Shows you the contradictions and how tricky Brexit has made the political landscape. 

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

There’s some nuance inbetween as well. A couple of my friends would be in the Dissatisfied camp in that poll but they’ll probably still vote for them (Labour) next time because the Lib Dem’s are pro-EU, which they don’t like, the Tory turmoil made a horrible mess of the supply chain for one of their businesses and thinks Farage and Tice know zero about economics. The other one is ex-Team GB and has trained and competed with loads of medal winners from ethnic minorities who are global household names, for him Reform are the old BNP who would abuse his friends and former team-mates.

English nationalist and pro monarchy but academically not Reform’s demographic at all. Shows you the contradictions and how tricky Brexit has made the political landscape. 

That's a fair point. I genuinely don't know who I'm going to vote for. I'd like to see change, can't vote for the Tories for obvious reasons and Labour have been a lot worse than I thought they would be. I hate the nanny state and mostly want the government to butt out of my life where possible. 

[Farmer Saint]

I'm disappointed with what we have, Starmer has been far too centre right leaning for my liking. However, if I voted, there is no way I'd vote for thick-as-shit Kemi, or cunty conman Farage.

The deals they have made in the last few weeks are good for the economy, so hopefully it will start to pick up.

Edited May 21 by Farmer Saint

[Tamesaint]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm disappointed with what we have, Starker has been far too centre right leaning for my liking. However, if I voted, there is no way I'd vote for thick-as-shit Kemi, or cunty conman Farage.

The deals they have made in the last few weeks are good for the economy, so hopefully it will start to pick up.

Yes. I guess that they are hoping for the effect of the trade deals to kick in, to stop scoring own goals (its interesting that they may reverse the winter fuel payment for pensioners) and the toxicity of the Tory / Farage brands to see them right. The next election is 4 years away so they have time.

[hypochondriac]

8 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Yes. I guess that they are hoping for the effect of the trade deals to kick in, to stop scoring own goals (its interesting that they may reverse the winter fuel payment for pensioners) and the toxicity of the Tory / Farage brands to see them right. The next election is 4 years away so they have time.

Well they won't be winning any friends with stuff like this 

 

[Farmer Saint]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Well they won't be winning any friends with stuff like this 

 

What's wrong with it? Seems a very Labour policy. Should also increase spending in the economy.

Edited May 21 by Farmer Saint

[hypochondriac]

13 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What's wrong with it? Seems a very Labour policy. Should also increase spending in the economy.

It may not happen but if it does it will be deeply unpopular 

In the document, seen by our reporters, the Deputy Prime Minister proposed eight tax increases including reinstating the pensions lifetime allowance and changing dividend taxes.

She also suggested new raids on the million people who pay the additional rate of income tax and a higher corporation tax level for the banks.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

It may not happen but if it does it will be deeply unpopular 

In the document, seen by our reporters, the Deputy Prime Minister proposed eight tax increases including reinstating the pensions lifetime allowance and changing dividend taxes.

She also suggested new raids on the million people who pay the additional rate of income tax and a higher corporation tax level for the banks.

The country is in the shit due to Brexit and some other factors. Tax rises are needed. Obviously not all of these will be put through, if any, but they seem very normal Labour policies.

Edit: just read the full article. This was literally a list of options to bring in more money. Nothing really to see here.

Edited May 21 by Farmer Saint

[John B]

On 20/03/2025 at 18:15, hypochondriac said:

Agree with the first part. Not sure tax the rich and more politics of envy is going to do anything positive. 

If you agree about the first part why not tax the super rich in my case it has nothing to do with envy

I

[whelk]

14 minutes ago, John B said:

If you agree about the first part why not tax the super rich in my case it has nothing to do with envy

I

Previous hypos throughout history would no doubt been actively against education for all - we can’t afford it, healthcare for all - we can’t afford it. State pensions, unions and workers’ rights - business owners will go bankrupt. Same argument trotted out against taxing wealth - ‘envy’, ‘they’ll leave the country etc. - all scare tactics to avoid having a fairer society. Imagine if Facebook and Amazon had to shed a few billion in to the Treasury - catastrophic eh

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

Previous hypos throughout history would no doubt been actively against education for all - we can’t afford it, healthcare for all - we can’t afford it. State pensions, unions and workers’ rights - business owners will go bankrupt. Same argument trotted out against taxing wealth - ‘envy’, ‘they’ll leave the country etc. - all scare tactics to avoid having a fairer society. Imagine if Facebook and Amazon had to shed a few billion in to the Treasury - catastrophic eh

Nothing like going to the absolute extreme to try to diminish my point. I'm my own person with my own opinions totally separate from historical figures.

[Farmer Saint]

Re-think of the Winter fuel payment. The original idea was correct, the execution was lacking. Let's get it right this time shall we?

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Previous hypos throughout history would no doubt been actively against education for all - we can’t afford it, healthcare for all - we can’t afford it. State pensions, unions and workers’ rights - business owners will go bankrupt. Same argument trotted out against taxing wealth - ‘envy’, ‘they’ll leave the country etc. - all scare tactics to avoid having a fairer society. Imagine if Facebook and Amazon had to shed a few billion in to the Treasury - catastrophic eh

I think when people bang on about 'politics of envy' it says more about them than those who want just a fairer society with public services that actually work.

[hypochondriac]

13 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I think when people bang on about 'politics of envy' it says more about them than those who want just a fairer society with public services that actually work.

It's how you achieve a fairer society that is the issue. Some people view some who have been successful as inherently evil who need to be pulled down. 

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It's how you achieve a fairer society that is the issue. Some people view some who have been successful as inherently evil who need to be pulled down. 

It depends on whether there is a taint of corruption or greed behind their "success".

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

It's how you achieve a fairer society that is the issue. Some people view some who have been successful as inherently evil who need to be pulled down. 

Some are, a lot aren't. Unfortunately that's just generalisation, something we are all guilty of. 

We need a workable wealth tax (not tax the rich, tax the wealthy based on what they own rather than what they earn). Not sure how best to do that, but there will be a way. If they leave (which they probably won't as the assets are here), property will be returned back to the market, driving down prices on Commercial and Residential property.

Edited May 21 by Farmer Saint

[whelk]

15 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

We need a workable wealth tax (not tax the rich, tax the wealthy based on what they own rather than what they earn)

Completely agree and seems no radical thinking or suggestions. Just tinkering, cutting benefits and pulling many averagely well off people into 40% income tax bracket due to fiscal drag. Meanwhile those with huge wealth are in effect getting subsidised by those relying on income. Model used to work but needs a re-think IMO.

Labour won’t deserve to get re-elected if they don’t think more radically and stop  worrying about the Mail and Telegraph who basically will scream whatever they do. 

Edited May 21 by whelk

[Farmer Saint]

11 minutes ago, whelk said:

Completely agree and seems no radical thinking or suggestions. Just tinkering, cutting benefits and pulling many averagely well off people into 40% income tax bracket due to fiscal drag. Meanwhile those with huge wealth are in effect getting subsidised by those relying on income. Model used to work but needs a re-think IMO.

Labour won’t deserve to get re-elected if they don’t think more radically and stop  worrying about the Mail and Telegraph who basically will scream whatever they do. 

If Gary Stevenson had some answers as to actually "how" we tax wealth, rather than repeatedly telling us he was the Best Trader in the World (TM) at one point, he could really put a compelling plan together. It doesn't even need to be a big tax (1 or 2 percentage points), you just have to stop the money leaving the country to be able to tax it effectively.

Edited May 21 by Farmer Saint

[whelk]

TLDR but some interesting graphs here

https://ifs.org.uk/sites/default/files/output_url_files/Is-it-time-for-a-UK-wealth-tax.pdf

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

TLDR but some interesting graphs here

https://ifs.org.uk/sites/default/files/output_url_files/Is-it-time-for-a-UK-wealth-tax.pdf

Very interesting, and it just shows how successive Governments have allowed wealth to be taxed lower as a percentage over the past 40 years.

Edited May 21 by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

My God, how ever will they survive?

https://www.ft.com/content/119b79e9-5446-4a31-a8d7-ab10b57cbc67?fbclid=IwQ0xDSwKcDtZjbGNrApwOymV4dG4DYWVtAjExAAEeLFr67DZQeZrGdn3_wiebhAUZwWkL4ejR1x2BO7-9ig96MLrnyVuqHX5AcLg_aem_--BAJ0yRUhlO8B_rpW6zbQ

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

[whelk]

16 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fucking hell are you 12yo? 

[Farmer Saint]

Surprising result last night in Scotland - excellent result for Labour considering incumbent governments never seem to do well in by-elections.

[AlexLaw76]

Guess fewer pensioners will freeze to death this winter....good news

Edited June 9 by AlexLaw76

[east-stand-nic]

19 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Guess fewer pensioners will freeze to death this winter....good news

Ah but come on....as someone on here said when he scrapped the payments, they must have had good reason. Clearly they did their sums and realised it was not affordable. However of course as we all know, when the Tories scrap help for pensioners it is because they are scum and only support the right. 

[Farmer Saint]

Not sure how much help £300 really is though - my energy bill from beginning of Nov to end of Feb was £2200...not sure £300 really touches the sides.

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, east-stand-nic said:

Ah but come on....as someone on here said when he scrapped the payments, they must have had good reason. Clearly they did their sums and realised it was not affordable. However of course as we all know, when the Tories scrap help for pensioners it is because they are scum and only support the right. 

Loonanic strikes again

[east-stand-nic]

8 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Loonanic strikes again

Yes, the poster who said that is for sure a looney. And you are his alter ego, so you are also. 

[tdmickey3]

Just now, east-stand-nic said:

Yes, the poster who said that is for sure a looney. And you are his alter ego, so you are also. 

🤡

[Farmer Saint]

£39bn over 10 years to increase the building of Social and Affordable housing. Good start, but will it be enough? We are in need of so much social housing.

Edited Wednesday at 06:49 by Farmer Saint

[Turkish]

18 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Loonanic strikes again

What bit of what he said isn’t true though? He’s got a point. That generally is the reaction. Tories scrap benefits scum who only look after their mates. Labour do it, well they must have worked it out and most pensioners don’t need it anyway. 

[east-stand-nic]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

What bit of what he said isn’t true though? He’s got a point. That generally is the reaction. Tories scrap benefits scum who only look after their mates. Labour do it, well they must have worked it out and most pensioners don’t need it anyway. 

Wasting your time trying to enter a sensible debate with that one. He is only here to berate everything I say, no matter what and post his LOL emoji. But of course, he will say it is me doing it. He is off his head. 

[tdmickey3]

48 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Wasting your time trying to enter a sensible debate with that one. He is only here to berate everything I say, no matter what and post his LOL emoji. But of course, he will say it is me doing it. He is off his head. 

Irony 

[east-stand-nic]

30 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Irony 

No answer to the point Turkish made then? Thought not. 

[aintforever]

51 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

No answer to the point Turkish made then? Thought not. 

I think the difference is you can be pretty sure Labour are cutting benefits because there is little choice, not for ideological reasons. They are traditionally the party that tends to hand out too much IMO, it’s really not hard to understand why people react to the two parties differently.