The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[hypochondriac]

31 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Well they are, this is the thing, it's a pretty low bar. How many MPs are likable and talk sense? You could probably count them on one hand. Maybe because the country is such a mess and they're always getting a grilling whenever they speak in public it's that effect where they never get the chance to appear remotely likeable or competent because everything they do and say is scrutinised to the tiniest detail by social media and the press. Or maybe 99% of them are just cocks.

Yes I agree. If the financial incentive was better though you might get a better class of politician. Regardless of left or right, what I'd like is competent and skilled people making good decisions to make the country more successful. What we get is short term focus grouped decisions that tinker around the edges and do little for my life other than making me pay more taxes whilst everything gets worse. 

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Yes I agree. If the financial incentive was better though you might get a better class of politician. Regardless of left or right, what I'd like is competent and skilled people making good decisions to make the country more successful. What we get is short term focus grouped decisions that tinker around the edges and do little for my life other than making me pay more taxes whilst everything gets worse. 

The public dont help either though, this view that their side is the right side and everything the other one does is bad, rather than actually just cracking on with it. It's definitely got worse the last 10 years or so, mainly due to social media with everyone quick to jump on what the other side say, in a hurry to be outraged or right.

[whelk]

I don’t think it is just the salaries but the wider appeal of putting yourself forward to just get dog’s abuse for not sorting everyone’s lives out. Made much worse with instant communication 

[Gloucester Saint]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

I don’t think it is just the salaries but the wider appeal of putting yourself forward to just get dog’s abuse for not sorting everyone’s lives out. Made much worse with instant communication 

Can be worse than abuse too - e.g. David Amess, Jo Cox and Nigel Jones’s office manager.

[whelk]

18 minutes ago, Turkish said:

The public dont help either though, this view that their side is the right side and everything the other one does is bad, rather than actually just cracking on with it. It's definitely got worse the last 10 years or so, mainly due to social media with everyone quick to jump on what the other side say, in a hurry to be outraged or right.

I posted similar at same time but would respect an MP if they came back on social media to be abusive at the some of public. Like “Fuck off you moany old cunt”

[hypochondriac]

29 minutes ago, Turkish said:

The public dont help either though, this view that their side is the right side and everything the other one does is bad, rather than actually just cracking on with it. It's definitely got worse the last 10 years or so, mainly due to social media with everyone quick to jump on what the other side say, in a hurry to be outraged or right.

Absolutely. Also much of the public expecting the government to do everything for everyone. We'd be much better off with the government stopping trying to give stuff to everyone for free. 

[hypochondriac]

30 minutes ago, whelk said:

I don’t think it is just the salaries but the wider appeal of putting yourself forward to just get dog’s abuse for not sorting everyone’s lives out. Made much worse with instant communication 

Yep. Unfortunately with my job I've had to deal with people from all walks of life. There is a particular type of person who isn't very intelligent and so their response to anything is to get angry, shouty and sometimes abusive because they don't have any skills to deal with things differently. You have to treat these people a certain way and understand that they aren't doing it personally at you but they are incapable of doing things differently. I would imagine this is similar for some MPs where you have to represent everyone in your constituency including people who really are best ignored in other situations. I wouldn't want to have to deal with that on a daily basis. 

Lot of MPs are still pricks of course but for that aspect of it they get my sympathy. 

[Gloucester Saint]

54 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Absolutely. Also much of the public expecting the government to do everything for everyone. We'd be much better off with the government stopping trying to give stuff to everyone for free. 

That would rely on some markets being a lot more efficient and customer-focused. Monopolies happen unless curbed and a tax is still a tax when you’re paying for something captive where there’s effectively no choice - be that water, energy, rail/bus for people who can’t drive, or public services. Governments have to keep giving out fuel allowances and getting into a pickle because we’ve given control of our energy away and French/Norwegian/Chinese civil service pensions are doing very nicely as a result when our population loses out.

Also, if you’ve had to deal with likes of British Gas 🤬

Railways are a sore point for me - fed up with many of the firms being asset stripped for massive dividends from BVI and other tax havens on the one hand, and led appallingly, but unions getting good pay rises last year, clinging onto outdated practices and striking at the drop of a hat (Cross Country and the RMT this time). 

Balance is wrong - in 1970 the state did too much, after about 1989 it’s not done enough in the right areas and tinkered in others without the regulatory reforms to make a genuine difference to most of the public.

For profits are meant to be for-profits as opposed to be a high volume public service like the above, theory is they’re if very good they get repeat custom and grow, I’ve been on that cycle myself and great whilst lasts. But hard for them to plan when national policy zig zags and global instability and tariffs deter investment and commercial borrowing. A new factory or premises is often at least a 10-30 year investment for a lot of firms.

Edited Monday at 11:06 by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

All four parties need to sort this out though, if true/guilty. They have all had issues with type of behaviour which isn’t acceptable in work or social places these days https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g7g1858rpo

[AlexLaw76]

Smashing the gangs going well

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c39zk7pp29ko

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Smashing the gangs going well

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c39zk7pp29ko

To some extent it is - record 28k migrants trying to come by boat stopped and scrotes like this banged up with an immediate deportment order https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce399l1329lo

His wife and kids should be deported imminently as well, they’ve profited from his activities and don’t seem to either be oppressed nor possess skills we need economically. They can all have a lovely reunion later in Egypt. Italy doesn’t want them either. Get them gone. If the lawyers want to play the appeals system, they can fund their return passage from Egypt themselves.

In terms of overall numbers, French Border Force needs to up the interception rate up considerably from 58%. That means more of the more robust policing seen very recently in that BBC article e.g tear gas and batons, frustrating that the inflatables are still taking to sea. Surely there’s a way of puncturing those boats from a distance before they sail?

No option but to collaborate with the French on this topic though regardless of who is in power.

Edited Tuesday at 15:42 by Gloucester Saint

[whelk]

27 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

To some extent it is - record 28k migrants trying to come by boat stopped and scrotes like this banged up with an immediate deportment order https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce399l1329lo

His wife and kids should be deported imminently as well, they’ve profited from his activities and don’t seem to either be oppressed nor possess skills we need economically. They can all have a lovely reunion later in Egypt. Italy doesn’t want them either. Get them gone. If the lawyers want to play the appeals system, they can fund their return passage from Egypt themselves.

In terms of overall numbers, French Border Force needs to up the interception rate up considerably from 58%. That means more of the more robust policing seen very recently in that BBC article e.g tear gas and batons, frustrating that the inflatables are still taking to sea. Surely there’s a way of puncturing those boats from a distance before they sail?

No option but to collaborate with the French on this topic though regardless of who is in power.

We should have some boats waiting for them. Put them all back on and ship back to France.

Also deploy some troops to the French beaches with instructions to destroy any dingy that is being run by traffickers.

Cannot believe this is so difficult to resolve but need French co-operation of course

[Gloucester Saint]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

We should have some boats waiting for them. Put them all back on and ship back to France.

Also deploy some troops to the French beaches with instructions to destroy any dingy that is being run by traffickers.

Cannot believe this is so difficult to resolve but need French co-operation of course

It’s a demanding situation against highly organised criminals but yes, the French Border Force ought to be doing better for what they were paid under the 2023 arrangement.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

To some extent it is - record 28k migrants trying to come by boat stopped and scrotes like this banged up with an immediate deportment order https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce399l1329lo

His wife and kids should be deported imminently as well, they’ve profited from his activities and don’t seem to either be oppressed nor possess skills we need economically. They can all have a lovely reunion later in Egypt. Italy doesn’t want them either. Get them gone. If the lawyers want to play the appeals system, they can fund their return passage from Egypt themselves.

In terms of overall numbers, French Border Force needs to up the interception rate up considerably from 58%. That means more of the more robust policing seen very recently in that BBC article e.g tear gas and batons, frustrating that the inflatables are still taking to sea. Surely there’s a way of puncturing those boats from a distance before they sail?

No option but to collaborate with the French on this topic though regardless of who is in power.

Just curious, where did you get the stat that 28k have been stopped by coming across the Channel?

[Gloucester Saint]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Just curious, where did you get the stat that 28k have been stopped by coming across the Channel?

Third para from the base of the BBC article from today you shared - 940 boats intercepted in the same period with 28k migrants on them. That’s an average of roughly 29 a boat - more sinkings are on the cards sadly as they aren’t meant to hold anywhere near that number. 

[The Kraken]

Q: Where did you get that figure?

A: It was in the link you just posted.

 Lol. Couldn’t even read past a headline 

[AlexLaw76]

6 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Q: Where did you get that figure?

A: It was in the link you just posted.

 Lol. Couldn’t even read past a headline 

😅 

[Weston Super Saint]

9 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Third para from the base of the BBC article from today you shared - 940 boats intercepted in the same period with 28k migrants on them. That’s an average of roughly 29 a boat - more sinkings are on the cards sadly as they aren’t meant to hold anywhere near that number. 

The third and fourth para from the bottom of that article state :

Quote

But Channel crossings have hit 40,000 since Labour took office in July 2024 - a 21% increase on the same period the year before.

Over the same period, 940 boats have been intercepted - stopping nearly 28,000 migrants from reaching the UK.

It does beg the question of what happened to the 28,000 migrants that were 'stopped' if 40,000 still crossed?

Presumably their 'stoppage' was only temporary before they were let on their way - I assume waiting on a beach isn't technically illegal in France, so there would have been no reason for any of the 28,000 to be detained.

It's a bit of a nonsense figure to claim 28,000 migrants have been stopped from reaching the UK if they were free to try again the following day, presumably a majority of the 28,000 that were previously 'stopped' are also included in the 40,000 that made it?

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The third and fourth para from the bottom of that article state :

It does beg the question of what happened to the 28,000 migrants that were 'stopped' if 40,000 still crossed?

Presumably their 'stoppage' was only temporary before they were let on their way - I assume waiting on a beach isn't technically illegal in France, so there would have been no reason for any of the 28,000 to be detained.

It's a bit of a nonsense figure to claim 28,000 migrants have been stopped from reaching the UK if they were free to try again the following day, presumably a majority of the 28,000 that were previously 'stopped' are also included in the 40,000 that made it?

Inevitably a few of the 28k will have turned up on other crossings but the sheer scale of escalation from the smugglers and new boarding tactics https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpd1l6p8vw9o means the Gendarme will need 1) more licence to intercept and arrest at sea, 2) help from both Navies to accomplish this and 3) immunity from prosecution if something goes wrong unless they literally drown someone with their bare hands. The inflatables are being so overloaded that a sinking soon is inevitable if we get a more choppy/windy day in the Channel.