The Reform Thread

[Gloucester Saint]

7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Fair enough. I think that broadly universities should be strongly in favour of hearing views from legitimate people that some may find objectionable or even offensive. It's terrible that some students don't hear opposing points of view. I thought the Tories introduced something alongside the free speech union to prevent this sort of thing happening but it was shelved when labour came in. I could be wrong about that.

I think Labour re-introduced the Free Speech bill but I can’t claim to know the technicalities I’m afraid. I think it was linked into the large Sussex fine which is currently being contested at the High Court.

[whelk]

4 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Straightforward to defend the statement that there are too many brown faces in tv adverts? I hadn’t even noticed how many there were until she had her rant. Isn’t it racist to comment about things just based on race?

I am clearly more observant than you. It doesn’t overly bother me. It isn’t racist to notice somebody is black

[Holmes_and_Watson]

7 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Straightforward to defend the statement that there are too many brown faces in tv adverts? I hadn’t even noticed how many there were until she had her rant. Isn’t it racist to comment about things just based on race?

 

3 hours ago, whelk said:

I am clearly more observant than you. It doesn’t overly bother me. It isn’t racist to notice somebody is black

Desperate to show that race never enters his head, SOG falls straight into the  colourblindness is racism trap.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/culturally-speaking/201112/colorblind-ideology-is-form-racism

Embrace multiculturalism SOG, instead of worrying over which bandwagon to jump on.

[Turkish]

15 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Straightforward to defend the statement that there are too many brown faces in tv adverts? I hadn’t even noticed how many there were until she had her rant. Isn’t it racist to comment about things just based on race?

Agreed, i've never referred to a bar maid as Mixed race.

[iansums]

It's painfully obvious if you watch a string of adverts, virtuall every 'couple' is white and non-white. Of course it's not a big deal, but it is noticeable and has become a running joke in our house. I object far more to non-whites being inserted into period dramas to fill a quota, Wolf Hall for instance.

[Farmer Saint]

9 minutes ago, iansums said:

 Of course it's not a big deal, but it is noticeable and has become a running joke in our house.

Fucking hell, if that's what qualifies as a joke in your household you must all be a barrell of fucking laughs.

"Let's all laugh at interracial couples, hohohohoho."

Do you laugh when you see them in the streets as well?

Edited yesterday at 12:59 by Farmer Saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Agreed, i've never referred to a bar maid as Mixed race.

She was Muslim, not mixed race. I think that was the barber. I know you think he talks a load of old pony, but I popped into his local and saw for myself the diversity of Romney’s finest ale house. Unfortunately, Parker Bowles was off shooting, but Walter was there with some of the gang. 
 

 

[iansums]

30 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Fucking hell, if that's what qualifies as a joke in your household you must all be a barrell of fucking laughs.

"Let's all laugh at interracial couples, hohohohoho."

Do you laugh when you see them in the streets as well?

Oh dear! Not quite what I meant, maybe it's time to have a lie down Farmer, you seem to be getting a little worked up.

[Farmer Saint]

6 minutes ago, iansums said:

Oh dear! Not quite what I meant, maybe it's time to have a lie down Farmer, you seem to be getting a little worked up.

Sorry, have I misunderstood something? What did you mean then?

[iansums]

4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Sorry, have I misunderstood something? What did you mean then?

You're clearly just trying to pick an argument, let's just leave it there.

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, iansums said:

It's painfully obvious if you watch a string of adverts, virtuall every 'couple' is white and non-white. Of course it's not a big deal, but it is noticeable and has become a running joke in our house. I object far more to non-whites being inserted into period dramas to fill a quota, Wolf Hall for instance.

“Inserted.” Or maybe just actors playing acting rolls and pretending to be someone they are not? Or do you object to actors with black or brown skin plying their trade in the UK?

[sadoldgit]

28 minutes ago, iansums said:

Oh dear! Not quite what I meant, maybe it's time to have a lie down Farmer, you seem to be getting a little worked up.

What did you mean then? Why does it matter to you what colour skin someone has when they are trying to sell you washing up liquid?

[iansums]

32 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

“Inserted.” Or maybe just actors playing acting rolls and pretending to be someone they are not? Or do you object to actors with black or brown skin plying their trade in the UK?

No objection at all, good luck to them. Did you watch Wolf Hall second series?

[iansums]

32 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

What did you mean then? Why does it matter to you what colour skin someone has when they are trying to sell you washing up liquid?

It doesn’t matter at all, it’s an observation.

[badgerx16]

52 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

“Inserted.” Or maybe just actors playing acting rolls and pretending to be someone they are not? Or do you object to actors with black or brown skin plying their trade in the UK?

It isn't the actors, per se, it's the revisionist history that comes with it. Yes a non-white actress can play Jane Seymour or Anne Boleyn, but the accompanying claims that the real historical characters were "people of colour" is what offends.

For instance, in the recent drama about the Norman invasion, the Earl of Northumbria was played by a non white actor as part of a "colour blind" approach to casting. This is all well and good, but historical accuracy is thrown out the window.

Do you think you could get away with castng Laurence Olivier as Othello these days ?

Edited yesterday at 14:50 by badgerx16

[whelk]

19 minutes ago, iansums said:

No objection at all, good luck to them. Did you watch Wolf Hall second series?

You got to remember if SOG got on a train carriage and every seat was taken by a black person he wouldn’t notice

[whelk]

54 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

“Inserted.” Or maybe just actors playing acting rolls and pretending to be someone they are not? Or do you object to actors with black or brown skin plying their trade in the UK?

Classic SOG, yeah that is exactly what he is implying

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Fucking hell, if that's what qualifies as a joke in your household you must all be a barrell of fucking laughs.

"Let's all laugh at interracial couples, hohohohoho."

Do you laugh when you see them in the streets as well?

 

1 hour ago, iansums said:

It's painfully obvious if you watch a string of adverts, virtuall every 'couple' is white and non-white. Of course it's not a big deal, but it is noticeable and has become a running joke in our house. I object far more to non-whites being inserted into period dramas to fill a quota, Wolf Hall for instance.

To be fair when Mr T and I watching any TV together usually the dramas on BBC or ITV we will tick off the tokenish. The black one, the asian, the disabled one and the LGBT ones, there always is one of each, sometimes a gay couple, "there they are" we jape to each other. 

[Turkish]

13 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

 

Desperate to show that race never enters his head, SOG falls straight into the  colourblindness is racism trap.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/culturally-speaking/201112/colorblind-ideology-is-form-racism

Embrace multiculturalism SOG, instead of worrying over which bandwagon to jump on.

Fucking hilarious he's now playing the the "i dont even notice a brown/black person" game when he's previously on record on here as referring to "them" as coconuts 😂

[iansums]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 

To be fair when Mr T and I watching any TV together usually the dramas on BBC or ITV we will tick off the tokenish. The black one, the asian, the disabled one and the LGBT ones, there always is one of each, sometimes a gay couple, "there they are" we jape to each other. 

Hold on ‘Mr T and I’? Well that’s two boxes ticked 😃

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, iansums said:

Hold on ‘Mr T and I’? Well that’s two boxes ticked 😃

Unfortunately that was a typo and my family has no chance of ever appearing on TV advert

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Unfortunately that was a typo and my family has no chance of ever appearing on TV advert

With all these mixed race couples, you never see a white man with a Burkah-clad missus…

 

 

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

It isn't the actors, per se, it's the revisionist history that comes with it. Yes a non-white actress can play Jane Seymour or Anne Boleyn, but the accompanying claims that the real historical characters were "people of colour" is what offends.

For instance, in the recent drama about the Norman invasion, the Earl of Northumbria was played by a non white actor as part of a "colour blind" approach to casting. This is all well and good, but historical accuracy is thrown out the window.

Do you think you could get away with castng Laurence Olivier as Othello these days ?

I’m not sure what your point is? Are you saying that they are saying that Anne Boleyn was black?

Regarding historical accuracy in the Norman invasion, why didn’t they hack the actor playing Harold to death?

I don’t see why Olivier couldn’t play Othello these days (apart from him being dead). He just couldn’t use black face.

If you want to use that argument he lived in the times when racial segregation was rife in the US. It was perfectly ok for him to use black face because no one thought of using a black actor for a major production on stage or screen. 

Now, in the second quarter of the 21st century, we should be grown up enough to know that artistic representations are just that. There are plenty of Shakespearean plays set in modern times and you don’t see people kicking off because they are not dressed in Tudor garb. We have been over this before. In the 16thc women were not allowed to be “players” so men played female parts. 
Plays and films are all about the audience suspending disbelief. I think we all know Olivier wasn’t really Othello, just as we know he wasn’t really black. Would it be much more of a stretch for a white actor to play the character?  
 

PS. Spoiler alert. Despite all of the various artistic impressions of Jesus, he would have had brown skin, not white.
 

 

(Do black actors in Jamaica put on productions of Shakespeare?)

Edited yesterday at 16:23 by sadoldgit

[sadoldgit]

Here you go…

https://www.tes.com/magazine/archive/shakespeare-thriving-jamaica-and-beyond

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

“Inserted.” Or maybe just actors playing acting rolls and pretending to be someone they are not? Or do you object to actors with black or brown skin plying their trade in the UK?

Indeed. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem. 

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, iansums said:

No objection at all, good luck to them. Did you watch Wolf Hall second series?

Yes. I enjoyed it. Did you?

Would I spoil it for you if I told you that Jenneke Cromwell, his illegitimate daughter, was a fictional character?

Edited yesterday at 16:28 by sadoldgit

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I’m not sure what your point is? Are you saying that they are saying that Anne Boleyn was black?

Regarding historical accuracy in the Norman invasion, why didn’t they hack the actor playing Harold to death?

I don’t see why Olivier couldn’t play Othello these days (apart from him being dead). He just couldn’t use black face.

If you want to use that argument he lived in the times when racial segregation was rife in the US. It was perfectly ok for him to use black face because no one thought of using a black actor for a major production on stage or screen. 

Now, in the second quarter of the 21st century, we should be grown up enough to know that artistic representations are just that. There are plenty of Shakespearean plays set in modern times and you don’t see people kicking off because they are not dressed in Tudor garb. We have been over this before. In the 16thc women were not allowed to be “players” so men played female parts. 
Plays and films are all about the audience suspending disbelief. I think we all know Olivier wasn’t really Othello, just as we know he wasn’t really black. Would it be much more of a stretch for a white actor to play the character?  
 

 

(Do black actors in Jamaica put on productions of Shakespeare?)

Agreed. It's just artistic representations. We can all be grown up enough to suspend out disbelief. Well pointed out soggy. 

[badgerx16]

38 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

 

Regarding historical accuracy in the Norman invasion, why didn’t they hack the actor playing Harold to death?

Why weren't they speaking Anglo-Saxon ? The issue is that historical accuracy matters in an age when "facts" are malleable. Some production choices are made to make things more accessible, others are to show how "clever" and sympathetic the production team are.

I don’t see why Olivier couldn’t play Othello these days (apart from him being dead). He just couldn’t use black face.

Sort of ruins the concept of "The Moor of Venice".
 

PS. Spoiler alert. Despite all of the various artistic impressions of Jesus, he would have had brown skin, not white.
And dark hair, not blonde. He was also Jewish.

Why not just accept that there weren't many black people in Tudor England ?

Edited yesterday at 16:54 by badgerx16

[Holmes_and_Watson]

31 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Agreed. It's just artistic representations. We can all be grown up enough to suspend out disbelief. Well pointed out soggy. 

I'm sorry. I'm trying out SOG's colour blindness technique, and other than some interesting films, I'm not sure of the point of your post. 🙂

[badgerx16]

The Manchester Evening News held a hustings for the candidates for the upcoming by-election:

"Making his way into the room last of the five candidates with an earpiece-sporting bodyguard in tow, Reform UK's Matt Goodwin shook hands with his rivals. "Welcome to Manchester," he was told by Labour's Angeliki Stogia."

[sadoldgit]

20 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Why not just accept that there weren't many black people in Tudor England ?

I’m not sure what that has to do with the casting of black actors in the 21st century?

[Farmer Saint]

[hypochondriac]

13 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Pretty unsurprising given how polarising Farage is. If you were spinning it you could say "Nigel Farage has the highest percentage of those polled who view him as very favourable." Not sure it's that accurate anyway as I'm sure many in the general public wouldn't know who Ed Davey or Polanski even are whereas everyone knows Farage and Starmer.  

[hypochondriac]

44 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I’m not sure what that has to do with the casting of black actors in the 21st century?

Because if you are portraying a period of time, it is sometimes important to portray things in a somewhat factually accurate manner. My movie posters above highlight that point quite well. 

[sadoldgit]

Farage playing fast and loose with the truth again.

He claims that 1,000,000 million people living in this country do not speak English at all.

The 2021 census showed that 161,000 living in England and Wales did not speak English. 
880,000 could not speak English well.

I think most of us understand that there is a difference between not speaking a language and not speaking it well. Not that the people the message is aimed at will be bothered about the difference.

 

 

[badgerx16]

23 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Farage playing fast and loose with the truth again.

He claims that 1,000,000 million people living in this country do not speak English at all.

The 2021 census showed that 161,000 living in England and Wales did not speak English. 
880,000 could not speak English well.

I think most of us understand that there is a difference between not speaking a language and not speaking it well. Not that the people the message is aimed at will be bothered about the difference.

 

 

He used the correct figures in an nterview with the Telegraph.

[sadoldgit]

47 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

He used the correct figures in an nterview with the Telegraph.

Good that he corrected himself but those who saw his vid but don’t read The Telegraph will still be none the wiser.

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Good that he corrected himself but those who saw his vid but don’t read The Telegraph will still be none the wiser.

Do you not think he was "preaching to the converted" ?