What would you do

[Thedelldays]

if you were the chairman of the club right now..

so far many have had a pop at lowe and wilde for various things..

 

but the truth is basically we are losing serious money and in danger of getting "very bad" if it not already..

 

personally, im gob smacked that lowe and wilde are even bothering at all but are still getting no end of abuse from certain sections of the fan base..

 

so, with all that...what would YOU do to save saints right now

[Whitey Grandad]

I wouldn't start from here.

[Wes Tender]

if you were the chairman of the club right now..

so far many have had a pop at lowe and wilde for various things..

 

but the truth is basically we are losing serious money and in danger of getting "very bad" if it not already..

 

personally, im gob smacked that lowe and wilde are even bothering at all but are still getting no end of abuse from certain sections of the fan base..

 

so, with all that...what would YOU do to save saints right now

 

If I were Lowe, I'd be so mad at all the fans for demonstrating against me after relegation that I'd plan a strategy where I'd cosy up to that swine Wilde under the pretence of helping save our investments. I'd pander to his ego by making him Chairman of the Football board, knowing full well that I'd take all the decisions and that he would only be the monkey to my organ grinder. Then I'd employ some complete unknowns from abroad to manage us and make out that it was some brilliant masterstroke strategy to help the club survive. Systematically, I'd sell all of the quality players and replace them with the youngsters. Mind you, I'd have to do this quickly, as there are rumblings that there are some idiots out there who are rumoured to want to buy my club.

 

When they take over, they will realise that all that is left is the youth team and one or two journeymen, so their task will be all the more difficult to survive in this division. If they can't hack it, there might be another opportunity for me to come back again, this time as the club's saviour and my reputation will be fully restored. With luck, they'll take Sainst into administration and having bought my shares to gain control, I'll be able to buy a controlling interest at a pittance to replace my piffling little 6% that I hold now.

[benjii]

- I would disband my "cronies alliance" of shareholders, just in case they were conceivably a stumbling block to investment.

 

- I would get my daddy to buy a corporate box.

 

- I would buy a corporate box.

 

- I would not allow any of the cronies to have freebies.

 

- I would loan back my portion of the £563,000 termination pot on favourable terms if I could.

 

- I would ask my buddy Andrew to do the same if he could.

 

- I would try and build bridges with the other major shareholders.

 

- I would attempt to engage with as many fans as possible.

 

Maybe only small things but I would hate for people to think I wasn't doing my bit.

[Verbal Kint]

1. I wouldn't have made public statements about how close to administration we are. Clubs now know how skint we really are and are probably making derisory offers for players which we are forced to accept (1.3 million for Davies)

 

2. I would have slapped a 5 million price tag on Davies and told him how much we want him to stay.

 

3. Welcome offers of 2 million plus for Surman, one player we CAN afford to lose and still get decent money for him.

[Legod Second Coming]

They simply must do something to increase attendance as our key revenue stream.

 

And they must do this without affecting existing ST Holders.

 

I would like to see more, many more, ticket offers constructed in such a way as to:

 

1. Reflect the value of the ST Holder and their contribution to the club, but also:

 

2. To attract lapsed customers.

 

3. To attract more kids.

 

4. To attract more 'referred' customers - friends of friends, etc.

 

Not only have we been hit by falling attendances due to performances on/off the pitch, there is also a recession looming and discretionary spend is under pressure.

 

We do need to act as marketing savvy as humanly possible to ensure we generate more matchday income. And fast.

 

Our clear priority is cost-cutting.

 

But we must not forget revenue generation wherever it may come from. This means also working harder in selling the E&L business of the club and the merchandise.

 

Perhaps is we could forgeo a %margin and give away socks with a shirt for example, that would encourage Dad to also buy the shorts??

 

That's what we need. Ideas.

[stevegrant]

They simply must do something to increase attendance as our key revenue stream.

 

And they must do this without affecting existing ST Holders.

 

I would like to see more, many more, ticket offers constructed in such a way as to:

 

1. Reflect the value of the ST Holder and their contribution to the club, but also:

 

2. To attract lapsed customers.

 

3. To attract more kids.

 

4. To attract more 'referred' customers - friends of friends, etc.

But how do you do that when any "offer" that is launched is generally only applicable to non season ticket holders?

 

I'm personally not bothered about these sort of deals, I'd rather see the stadium full than half-empty, regardless of whether someone's getting in for a tenner for a less attractive game whereas I've paid an average of £16 or whatever it is. However, I'm well aware and totally appreciate the fact that others DO have a problem with that sort of thing, and there really isn't an awful lot the club can do in terms of getting people into the ground that would actually provide any sort of tangible benefit to season ticket holders.

 

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head would be a "if a friend of yours buys tickets to two (or three maybe, depending on how the figures stack up) Championship games, you get a £5 Megastore voucher". That way, the club are getting about £40-50 in revenue for £5 "loss" which is only offsetting against the profit margin on the merchandise anyway.

[SaintRichmond]

if you were the chairman of the club right now..

so far many have had a pop at lowe and wilde for various things..

but the truth is basically we are losing serious money and in danger of getting "very bad" if it not already..

personally, im gob smacked that lowe and wilde are even bothering at all but are still getting no end of abuse from certain sections of the fan base..

so, with all that...what would YOU do to save saints right now

 

 

Why are you "gob smacked " at Lowe & Wide's return ???

 

Why Oh Why do people STILL think that Lowe & Wilde are "back" to further the cause of SAINTS FOOTBALL ...... THEY ARE NOT

 

They are back SOLELY to further the cause of Lowe & Wilde ... NOTHING ELSE

 

And do you seriously think they care on iota what is posted on here ?? Get Real .... Lowe only talks to Shareholders, us Customers are irelevant in his eyes.

 

Financial Investment in Saints ??? ... Forget it. Chances have happened in the past, and, one day, history will show that Lowe "vetoed" those, because, all he ever wants is to be Numero Uno, Top of the Heap, Unassailable. ....... Why should he want anyone coming in to Spoil the show ??

 

All Lowe is, and will continue, to do, is SELL SELL SELL anyone he can get money for, supposedely to satisfy the Bank. But, is that Good Sense ???

 

If anything decent is sold, nothing of consequence will be left, the Team will suffer even more, and plummet ever downwards, and at the end of the day, all that the "Firefighting" would have done is to delay the inevitable .......We will still not be breaking even, will have only paid off the Interest from our debt(s), and by then, WE WILL HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO SELL

 

Lowe is acting exactly like an Administrator would act, selling off what he can to raise money. But, if it were a REAL Administrator, there would be light at the end of that tunnel. In Administration, we WOULD be able to build from the ashes, because we would have got rid of the Askhams, Lowes, Wildes, and all the other Parasites that have had a stranglehold on OUR CLUB for YEARS, that have been instrumental in preventing our Club going forward.

 

Enough is Enough ( already) Get rid of Lowe & Wilde NOW

[Thedelldays]

Why are you "gob smacked " at Lowe & Wide's return ???

 

Why Oh Why do people STILL think that Lowe & Wilde are "back" to further the cause of SAINTS FOOTBALL ...... THEY ARE NOT

 

where have i ever said they areback for the good of SFC..i am gob smacked that they can be bothered to put up with all the crap them being here means.......im sure they wont go hungry if they walked away from SFC forever..

 

 

oh, so what would you do with the club seeing as we are losing around 17m quid at the mo???

[Legod Second Coming]

But how do you do that when any "offer" that is launched is generally only applicable to non season ticket holders?

 

I'm personally not bothered about these sort of deals, I'd rather see the stadium full than half-empty, regardless of whether someone's getting in for a tenner for a less attractive game whereas I've paid an average of £16 or whatever it is. However, I'm well aware and totally appreciate the fact that others DO have a problem with that sort of thing, and there really isn't an awful lot the club can do in terms of getting people into the ground that would actually provide any sort of tangible benefit to season ticket holders.

 

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head would be a "if a friend of yours buys tickets to two (or three maybe, depending on how the figures stack up) Championship games, you get a £5 Megastore voucher". That way, the club are getting about £40-50 in revenue for £5 "loss" which is only offsetting against the profit margin on the merchandise anyway.

 

 

Steve, people are paid hundreds of thousands and year as Creative Directors of agencies to come up with promotions. Between us we could probably create at least half a dozen that would work...

 

Like you, I would rather a full stadium with people spending than satisfy myself that I got the best value in the ground.

[Danny R]

There needs to be initiatives to get people back to St Mary's - kids for a quid or more cheap tickets for local residents - even giving away tickets to school kids will make money with all the burgers etcthey consume. Another initiative would be to strike up an agreement with the Echo to start a campaign to get people going again -similar to the highly succesful 'Staying up with Harry n' Jim' campaign! People will do what media tells them.

[stevegrant]

Steve, people are paid hundreds of thousands and year as Creative Directors of agencies to come up with promotions. Between us we could probably create at least half a dozen that would work...

A serious problem we seem to have here is that, as a whole, Saints fans have turned into the most cynical and pessimistic fans in the country. I don't think the most creative minds in the world would be able to reverse that. Whether it's anybody's fault or whether it's just today's society that leads us to be cynical and almost solely interested in "what's in it for me" isn't really my place to say, nor is it really relevant, but I really think the club has a massive struggle on its hands to get people through the turnstiles. The economic downturn is certainly not helping matters, either.

[alpine_saint]

Why are you "gob smacked " at Lowe & Wide's return ???

 

Why Oh Why do people STILL think that Lowe & Wilde are "back" to further the cause of SAINTS FOOTBALL ...... THEY ARE NOT

 

They are back SOLELY to further the cause of Lowe & Wilde ... NOTHING ELSE

 

And do you seriously think they care on iota what is posted on here ?? Get Real .... Lowe only talks to Shareholders, us Customers are irelevant in his eyes.

 

Financial Investment in Saints ??? ... Forget it. Chances have happened in the past, and, one day, history will show that Lowe "vetoed" those, because, all he ever wants is to be Numero Uno, Top of the Heap, Unassailable. ....... Why should he want anyone coming in to Spoil the show ??

 

All Lowe is, and will continue, to do, is SELL SELL SELL anyone he can get money for, supposedely to satisfy the Bank. But, is that Good Sense ???

 

If anything decent is sold, nothing of consequence will be left, the Team will suffer even more, and plummet ever downwards, and at the end of the day, all that the "Firefighting" would have done is to delay the inevitable .......We will still not be breaking even, will have only paid off the Interest from our debt(s), and by then, WE WILL HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO SELL

 

Lowe is acting exactly like an Administrator would act, selling off what he can to raise money. But, if it were a REAL Administrator, there would be light at the end of that tunnel. In Administration, we WOULD be able to build from the ashes, because we would have got rid of the Askhams, Lowes, Wildes, and all the other Parasites that have had a stranglehold on OUR CLUB for YEARS, that have been instrumental in preventing our Club going forward.

 

Enough is Enough ( already) Get rid of Lowe & Wilde NOW

 

Yep, agree with all of that. Lowe is an administrator in all but name.

 

-10 points means sod-all if the club is already dead.

[SaintRichmond]

where have i ever said they areback for the good of SFC..i am gob smacked that they can be bothered to put up with all the crap them being here means.......im sure they wont go hungry if they walked away from SFC forever..

 

oh, so what would you do with the club seeing as we are losing around 17m quid at the mo???

 

Quick answer ....

 

A) The quicker they go, the better

 

B) Firstly, I'd want a GOOD reason why we are apparently STILL losing an astronomical amount of money ( still can't believe Crouch & Co to be that "deceitful"'

Secondly, I'd acknowledge that under the present set up, it is impossible to meet those debts, and ask for an Administrateor to come in and continue to do EXACTLY what Lowe is doing .... selling anything that moves. The difference being, we would still be in the same financial "mess", but we would be rid of those that have held the Club back for so long, and be able to start to build for the future again.

 

Leeds started from scratch after Admin, Bournemouth are doing the same, Coventry were "saved " at the eleventh hour by other means, and are at the other end of the CCC from us ....... it IS possible to rebuild from an Administration situation

 

Exactly WHAT could be worse ??? IMHO, things will not get any better financially under the present set up, and, the way things are looking, we seem set for a very dire struggle to avoid Division 1

 

Simply "baling out" every few months under Lowe& Wilde will get us absolutely nowhere at all

[Legod Second Coming]

A serious problem we seem to have here is that, as a whole, Saints fans have turned into the most cynical and pessimistic fans in the country. I don't think the most creative minds in the world would be able to reverse that. Whether it's anybody's fault or whether it's just today's society that leads us to be cynical and almost solely interested in "what's in it for me" isn't really my place to say, nor is it really relevant, but I really think the club has a massive struggle on its hands to get people through the turnstiles. The economic downturn is certainly not helping matters, either.

 

 

The wonderful thing about cynics is that they DO care. Apathy is much harder to combat.

 

Turn a cynic around and they almost always become an advocate and vociferous in their advocacy.

 

Take former smokers for example.

 

What we need is the marketing brains to bring fans back. Of course, winning helps!

[stevegrant]

Leeds started from scratch after Admin, Bournemouth are doing the same

Genius.

 

Chairman at Leeds before administration: Ken Bates.

Chairman at Leeds after administration, but with stronger hold on the club: Ken Bates.

 

Chairman at Bournemouth before administration: Jeff Mostyn.

Chairman at Bournemouth when they officially come out of administration in the next week or two, with stronger hold on the club: Jeff Mostyn.

[Minsk]

Why are you "gob smacked " at Lowe & Wide's return ???

 

Why Oh Why do people STILL think that Lowe & Wilde are "back" to further the cause of SAINTS FOOTBALL ...... THEY ARE NOT

 

They are back SOLELY to further the cause of Lowe & Wilde ... NOTHING ELSE

 

And do you seriously think they care on iota what is posted on here ?? Get Real .... Lowe only talks to Shareholders, us Customers are irelevant in his eyes.

 

Financial Investment in Saints ??? ... Forget it. Chances have happened in the past, and, one day, history will show that Lowe "vetoed" those, because, all he ever wants is to be Numero Uno, Top of the Heap, Unassailable. ....... Why should he want anyone coming in to Spoil the show ??

 

All Lowe is, and will continue, to do, is SELL SELL SELL anyone he can get money for, supposedely to satisfy the Bank. But, is that Good Sense ???

 

If anything decent is sold, nothing of consequence will be left, the Team will suffer even more, and plummet ever downwards, and at the end of the day, all that the "Firefighting" would have done is to delay the inevitable .......We will still not be breaking even, will have only paid off the Interest from our debt(s), and by then, WE WILL HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO SELL

 

Lowe is acting exactly like an Administrator would act, selling off what he can to raise money. But, if it were a REAL Administrator, there would be light at the end of that tunnel. In Administration, we WOULD be able to build from the ashes, because we would have got rid of the Askhams, Lowes, Wildes, and all the other Parasites that have had a stranglehold on OUR CLUB for YEARS, that have been instrumental in preventing our Club going forward.

 

Enough is Enough ( already) Get rid of Lowe & Wilde NOW

 

If we were to go into administration there would be nothing stopping the likes of Lowe, Askham, et al, bidding to buy the club.

 

Administration would not definitely mean the end of them. How many clubs have gone into administration only to be bought by the very people that put them there?

 

The ONLY THING administration would definitely gaurantee would be -10 points. And that would make it a 99% probability that we would definitely get relegated this season.

 

I can't see how any Saints FAN would want this to happen. I certainly don't.

[sotonist]

Coventry were "saved " at the eleventh hour by other means, and are at the other end of the CCC from us

 

i'm sure we're all delighted to have dodged that bullet. chris coleman too.

[John B]

Quick answer ....

 

A) The quicker they go, the better

 

B) Firstly, I'd want a GOOD reason why we are apparently STILL losing an astronomical amount of money ( still can't believe Crouch & Co to be that "deceitful"'

Secondly, I'd acknowledge that under the present set up, it is impossible to meet those debts, and ask for an Administrateor to come in and continue to do EXACTLY what Lowe is doing .... selling anything that moves. The difference being, we would still be in the same financial "mess", but we would be rid of those that have held the Club back for so long, and be able to start to build for the future again.

 

Leeds started from scratch after Admin, Bournemouth are doing the same, Coventry were "saved " at the eleventh hour by other means, and are at the other end of the CCC from us ....... it IS possible to rebuild from an Administration situation

 

Exactly WHAT could be worse ??? IMHO, things will not get any better financially under the present set up, and, the way things are looking, we seem set for a very dire struggle to avoid Division 1

 

Simply "baling out" every few months under Lowe& Wilde will get us absolutely nowhere at all

 

I dont see how Wilde can go as he owns over 30 percent of the shares which nobody appears to want.

 

If we had sold Rasiak Saga Skacel and Rasiak for £4 million we would have been in a better position but that has not happened and that is out of the boards hands. So now we have to sell other players

 

The board have reduced the wage bill significantly so our on going losses have been reduced.

 

But my main concern is the negativity of the fans by boycotting games it makes the situation worse and I am certain Administration is not the answer.

[SaintDonkey]

 

Leeds started from scratch after Admin, Bournemouth are doing the same, Coventry were "saved " at the eleventh hour by other means, and are at the other end of the CCC from us ....... it IS possible to rebuild from an Administration situation

 

Leeds started from 'scratch' in the third tier of British football with a huge amount of investment plus a matchday income that dwarfs ours. Bournemouth are starting from scratch for the second time (or is it the third?) in the basement division with a points penalty that makes it likely that they will be playing non-league football next season.

 

 

If all the stay away fans were to start coming to games, and we're taken over with substantuial investment after administration then perhaps we could follow the Leeds. However it is far more likely that we would follow the Bournemouth model.

 

If you want Southampton to be be ground sharing with Eastleigh in the conference south then by all means advocate the administration route. Personally I'd rather avoid it at all costs - even if that cost is selling our best players and being in a relegation scrap we might not escape.

[dubai_phil]

In answer to the question originally posed.

 

Nothing different unfortunately.

 

Maybe I'd have kept my mouth shut about the nature of the troubles so I could try and get more money from the fire sales, but then I'd be accused of pulling the wool over the fans eyes.

 

I STILL haven't found a single viable alternative. I STILL cannot understand why it was business as usual from November last year when Crouch took over. These losses haven't come about overnight and all we seemed to do was promote people in the club and loan out Saga and Rasiak.

He didn't have a viable alternative aither, no investor will pump the money to buy the shares, no investor can arrange a leveraged buy-out these days.

 

Administration is a great idea but we will never recover. here we are bleeding to death quietly out of the spotlight, and yet Man Ure just signed a 10 million sponsorship deal that is only about image rights in Saudi Arabia.

It's laughabale to think we can get our snouts back into that trough right now, but I think that MOST of this mess is because we thought we belonged there.

 

We don't belong there, nobody does. You have to EARN the right to be there.

 

Our arrogance since relegation as fans, players and management has got us here. Pride goes before a fall.

 

Get over it, the sooner we fall over the softer and more control we have over the landing.

 

I just don't see any other way except pain and bloody hard work

[Doctoroncall]

From football economy website:

 

SAINTS IN A FINANCIAL HOLE – 26/7/08

 

Saints supremo Ruper Lowe added, 'With the year completed likely to show income down by over 35 per cent and player and coaches wages rising by over 15 per cent year on year the operating loss was all too predictable. We expect to report a substantial loss before tax of around £5m (after playing trading and interest charges) and this is despite a profit on dispoals of players amounting to over £12m. This is clearly not acceptable or sustainable.'

 

Lowe admitted, 'with little spare family silverware left to sell, we will continue to concentrate on reducing the costs at operating levels. The financial results will show an increase in the level of borrowing which has required extensive discussions with the company's bank and loan holder'. While they are stated to be supportive of the board's strategy, these discussions cannot have been comfortable. Another Championship chairman told me that banks no longer want to know a club when it is relegated from the Premiership. The club states that it is excited about a 'young dynamic team' and that 'We firmly believe that the future rests with our talented youngsters.' I have two good friends who are Saints supporters, but I am afraid this sounds like whistling in the dark to me. They are having to play youngsters because that is all they can afford.

[Wes Tender]

A serious problem we seem to have here is that, as a whole, Saints fans have turned into the most cynical and pessimistic fans in the country. I don't think the most creative minds in the world would be able to reverse that. Whether it's anybody's fault or whether it's just today's society that leads us to be cynical and almost solely interested in "what's in it for me" isn't really my place to say, nor is it really relevant, but I really think the club has a massive struggle on its hands to get people through the turnstiles. The economic downturn is certainly not helping matters, either.

 

I think that you're right. There are many fans who think to themselves why should they put themselves out to bail out Lowe and Wilde? I'm certainly one who thinks along those lines and I'm pretty sure that I'm not unrepresentive.

 

However, if somebody else took us over and made a plea to all the fans to come to matches and support the team, especially if they arranged some sort of price concession to encourage it, they would not have the baggage that Lowe and Wilde have and people would be more inclined to give them a chance.

[stevegrant]

I think that you're right. There are many fans who think to themselves why should they put themselves out to bail out Lowe and Wilde? I'm certainly one who thinks along those lines and I'm pretty sure that I'm not unrepresentive.

Is it really bailing Lowe and Wilde out? As far as I see it, it's bailing Southampton Football Club out. The characters sat in the board room are a complete irrelevance, and unless they were backed by a significant investor, nobody in their right mind would attempt a takeover as they wouldn't be able to do anything different to the job Lowe and Wilde are doing right now because of the financial constraints.

 

However, if somebody else took us over and made a plea to all the fans to come to matches and support the team, especially if they arranged some sort of price concession to encourage it, they would not have the baggage that Lowe and Wilde have and people would be more inclined to give them a chance.

Isn't that pretty much what happened last time? Wilde came in off the back of "Football First", asking for the fans' support, etc, and what happened? Attendances actually fell in both seasons after Lowe's departure.

 

Unfortunately, and I don't necessarily classify you in here as I don't know you or your attendance record, as far as I see it the Lowe situation last time was just a very convenient excuse for those who simply didn't want to watch Championship football. Despite their hollow "thousands, including me and everyone I know (because every single person I know is boycotting SFC because of Lowe), will return to St Mary's as soon as Lowe leaves" promises, they have never returned.

 

I can't see that would change this time around, in all honesty.

[John B]

I think that you're right. There are many fans who think to themselves why should they put themselves out to bail out Lowe and Wilde? I'm certainly one who thinks along those lines and I'm pretty sure that I'm not unrepresentive.

 

However, if somebody else took us over and made a plea to all the fans to come to matches and support the team, especially if they arranged some sort of price concession to encourage it, they would not have the baggage that Lowe and Wilde have and people would be more inclined to give them a chance.

 

Of course you are right this hatred of Lowe and now Wilde is a real disaster for the club.

 

I dont fullyunderstand really why it has happened with such fervour but it has and of course needs to be addressed.

 

It is ironic really because two years ago most people thought very highly of Wilde and there appeared to be a new optimism within the Fan base.

 

However if someone else came in and things did not go well would the abuse start up again.

[tombletomble]

Why are you "gob smacked " at Lowe & Wide's return ???

 

Why Oh Why do people STILL think that Lowe & Wilde are "back" to further the cause of SAINTS FOOTBALL ...... THEY ARE NOT

 

They are back SOLELY to further the cause of Lowe & Wilde ... NOTHING ELSE

 

And do you seriously think they care on iota what is posted on here ?? Get Real .... Lowe only talks to Shareholders, us Customers are irelevant in his eyes.

 

Financial Investment in Saints ??? ... Forget it. Chances have happened in the past, and, one day, history will show that Lowe "vetoed" those, because, all he ever wants is to be Numero Uno, Top of the Heap, Unassailable. ....... Why should he want anyone coming in to Spoil the show ??

 

All Lowe is, and will continue, to do, is SELL SELL SELL anyone he can get money for, supposedely to satisfy the Bank. But, is that Good Sense ???

 

If anything decent is sold, nothing of consequence will be left, the Team will suffer even more, and plummet ever downwards, and at the end of the day, all that the "Firefighting" would have done is to delay the inevitable .......We will still not be breaking even, will have only paid off the Interest from our debt(s), and by then, WE WILL HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO SELL

 

Lowe is acting exactly like an Administrator would act, selling off what he can to raise money. But, if it were a REAL Administrator, there would be light at the end of that tunnel. In Administration, we WOULD be able to build from the ashes, because we would have got rid of the Askhams, Lowes, Wildes, and all the other Parasites that have had a stranglehold on OUR CLUB for YEARS, that have been instrumental in preventing our Club going forward.

 

Enough is Enough ( already) Get rid of Lowe & Wilde NOW

 

 

I really wish that you would stop presenting your opinions as fact. Yes you believe it to be the case but that does not make it so.

 

I am not trying to defend Lowe/Wilde/anyone else but am fed up with people on this board spouting their own opinions as if they are fact when they have no way of knowing what the facts are.

[Wes Tender]

Is it really bailing Lowe and Wilde out? As far as I see it, it's bailing Southampton Football Club out. The characters sat in the board room are a complete irrelevance, and unless they were backed by a significant investor, nobody in their right mind would attempt a takeover as they wouldn't be able to do anything different to the job Lowe and Wilde are doing right now because of the financial constraints.

 

Yes, I think many would see it as bailing Lowe and Wilde out, even though of course Saints would benefit as a result. I believe that most blame one or the other or indeed both of them for the majority of our problems and do not see much in the way of humility or admissions of errors from them. Many feel that they are back to protect their own shareholdings rather than for the good of the club, so they can't be much bothered with helping them especially when they see many of our favourite players being sold for a pittance.

 

Isn't that pretty much what happened last time? Wilde came in off the back of "Football First", asking for the fans' support, etc, and what happened? Attendances actually fell in both seasons after Lowe's departure.

 

Unfortunately, and I don't necessarily classify you in here as I don't know you or your attendance record, as far as I see it the Lowe situation last time was just a very convenient excuse for those who simply didn't want to watch Championship football. Despite their hollow "thousands, including me and everyone I know (because every single person I know is boycotting SFC because of Lowe), will return to St Mary's as soon as Lowe leaves" promises, they have never returned.

 

I think that you're right. That was probably what happened. As for myself, I had not renewed my ST when we were relegated and then renewed it after Lowe went. I then held one for this past season too but have not renewed it now that Lowe/Wilde have returned. However, whenever I did not have the ST, I still attended all home matches. If somebody else comes in and Lowe and Wilde go, then I will renew my ST right away.

 

I can't see that would change this time around, in all honesty.

 

The attendance at the Sheffield Utd match highlighted the potential that is here. I'm not so pessimistic that many fans would not return with a total regime change, some investment cash spent on some good players and a decent run of results.

[stevegrant]

Yes, I think many would see it as bailing Lowe and Wilde out, even though of course Saints would benefit as a result. I believe that most blame one or the other or indeed both of them for the majority of our problems and do not see much in the way of humility or admissions of errors from them. Many feel that they are back to protect their own shareholdings rather than for the good of the club, so they can't be much bothered with helping them especially when they see many of our favourite players being sold for a pittance.

I have no problem in people laying the blame at their feet, although I disagree with parts of that argument. However, I struggle to see the logic in not helping them basically to spite them when their success as SFC shareholders basically live or die by the success of the football club. If they don't manage to sort out the problems (or find someone who can), they'll get a pittance for their shares. If they can stabilise things (which, given the figures, is a massive ask) then credit will be due, albeit with a reasonably large slice due to both Barclays and Norwich Union for their continued support, although of course it is those two entities who are dictating the sale of the likes of Davies for less than we'd like.

 

Driving a hard bargain when another club wants one of our top players is something Lowe has received fairly widespread praise for in the past, so I think it's pretty clear he's not been able to have too much input into proceedings on this occasion.

 

The attendance at the Sheffield Utd match highlighted the potential that is here. I'm not so pessimistic that many fans would not return with a total regime change, some investment cash spent on some good players and a decent run of results.

I think the Sheffield United attendance perhaps highlighted more than ever that we have an ever-increasing number of fans who will only turn up to the big games. We averaged 21,000 last season, and yet had 10,500 more than that turn up for a big game. We had similar the season before, averaging 24k until the Southend game where a win would probably seal a play-off place, and surprise surprise, they all came out of the woodwork for that one.

[AwaySaint1]

and surprise surprise, they all came out of the woodwork for that one.

 

So you treat the fans that do not turn up every game with contempt ?

Strange attitude for a director of a football forum when around 70% of its members live in the woodwork.

[Whitey Grandad]

So you treat the fans that do not turn up every game with contempt ?

Strange attitude for a director of a football forum when around 70% of its members live in the woodwork.

 

Would a chalet in Austria count as woodwork?

[Guest Hacienda]

if you were the chairman of the club right now..

so far many have had a pop at lowe and wilde for various things..

 

but the truth is basically we are losing serious money and in danger of getting "very bad" if it not already..

 

personally, im gob smacked that lowe and wilde are even bothering at all but are still getting no end of abuse from certain sections of the fan base..

 

so, with all that...what would YOU do to save saints right now

 

Lowe and Wilde are attempting to protect their money. Nowt else.

[stevegrant]

So you treat the fans that do not turn up every game with contempt ?

Strange attitude for a director of a football forum when around 70% of its members live in the woodwork.

Are you ever going to post anything that isn't questioning me or Baj?

 

The lifeblood of any football club are the fans who turn up every week, in my opinion. However, my point was that while plenty of people claim they're staying away because of Lowe and/or Wilde ("principles", according to some), they're very quick to come crawling back for the big games ("principles, except when there's a big game on", it seems) when the club needs them just as much for the run-of-the-mill games as well.

[stevegrant]

Lowe and Wilde are attempting to protect their money. Nowt else.

But of course in order to do that, the club has to get sorted financially, so their personal goal is directly correlated to the club's goal.

[Bearsy]

Perhaps is we could forgeo a %margin and give away socks with a shirt for example, that would encourage Dad to also buy the shorts??

 

How about we give away one sock, and then charge double for the other?

 

Why doesn't Lowe think of stuff like this FFS???

 

Lowe out.

[ottery st mary]

I would bring all the recent past and present Directors together with interested financial

fans of the club make Lowe,Wilde and Crouch work together under an independent Chairman to save our club. Surely if they all love the club they will put all their differences aside and put a joint plan of action in place. A little bit like talking to my girls when they were younger. In the end to be truthful had to get the wife to sort it out.

Then again we could always let Mary Corbett chair over these naughty boys.

[AwaySaint1]

Are you ever going to post anything that isn't questioning me or Baj?

 

The lifeblood of any football club are the fans who turn up every week, in my opinion. However, my point was that while plenty of people claim they're staying away because of Lowe and/or Wilde ("principles", according to some), they're very quick to come crawling back for the big games ("principles, except when there's a big game on", it seems) when the club needs them just as much for the run-of-the-mill games as well.

 

Keep yer hair on Steve:D

 

I am teasing you,dont be so defensive;)

[Wes Tender]

Of course you are right this hatred of Lowe and now Wilde is a real disaster for the club.

 

I dont fullyunderstand really why it has happened with such fervour but it has and of course needs to be addressed.

 

It is ironic really because two years ago most people thought very highly of Wilde and there appeared to be a new optimism within the Fan base.

 

However if someone else came in and things did not go well would the abuse start up again.

 

I think that the difference would be that hopefully the new people would actually bring real investment to the club rather than just buying shares. Neither Lowe, Wilde nor Crouch have brought much in the way of actually investing their own money into the club and had they done so, they would possibly be given a bit more latitude now. If the new people were to be able to pay of our loans so that we did not have the bank or mortgage holders gun pointed at our head, that would be a major worry lifted. It would enable us to operate as the board felt fit and we would not be in the position whereby we had to let our best players go at almost any cost. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to say to other clubs, sorry, he isn't for sale; he is an integral part of our plans to develop a team worthy of promotion.

 

At the moment most are coming round to seeing that we will become Crewe Alexander mark 2 under the current regime. It would be lovely if the board became almost faceless, allowing the manager and players to just get on with things without the worries that ours have now, unable to rely on whether they will be even here by January.

[offix]

Yep, agree with all of that. Lowe is an administrator in all but name.

 

-10 points means sod-all if the club is already dead.

 

By selling the crown jewels (although the word "jewels" is a gross over-estimation) administrator Ru**rt is giving us a heck of a lot more more than 10 points to overcome.

[ottery st mary]

Euro millions on Friday then.

[Weston Super Saint]

Reduce the prices, get more people in, simple really....

[Guest Hacienda]

But of course in order to do that, the club has to get sorted financially, so their personal goal is directly correlated to the club's goal.

 

That I don't deny.

 

However, the way some people have portrayed them you'd think it was the 2nd coming.

 

Many people have fallen out of love with SFC and getting them back was always going to be a challenge, but with selling our best youngsters, the very people Lowe is pinning everything on, it's getting harder still.

[Guest Hacienda]

Reduce the prices, get more people in, simple really....

 

Too obvious I fear.

[Alanh]

I'd do two things. Firstly I would try to get the cost base under control. The main cost in the company is the wage bill and seeing as it increased by 15% in the last year while the overall quality of the players on the books decreased I'd look to remove as many of the high earners as possible while retaining a squad which can compete.

 

Secondly, I'd devise schemes to encourage people to come to matches. There are loads of ways to do this, but the one I'd employ more than any other is the use of the local media to encourage people to get to the match. i would also use promotions and incentives to shift tickets to targeted groups i.e. schools, local teams, company offers, competitions, mini season tickets - 5 - 10 games.

 

It's easy to say that I would do all these things, but then I don't have the baggage of Lowe and Wilde which may reduce the effectiveness of anything that they try to do.

[stevegrant]

I think that the difference would be that hopefully the new people would actually bring real investment to the club rather than just buying shares.

That is one of the main reasons why the club is not appealing to investors. "Investing" in the true sense would see that all (or at least the vast majority) of the money they were putting in would go into the company, not into its existing shareholders' pockets. I would be absolutely gobsmacked if Lowe, Wilde or Crouch sold their shares for a nominal fee just so an investor would have more money to spend on the club itself. They're businessmen, they've not made their money by giving large portions of it away to other businessmen for no return.

 

The other main reason is the debt. That cannot be helped, we needed to move to a new ground, and in order to fund it, we needed finance in the form of a loan (or a series of loans at the time, consolidated into one larger loan a couple of years later which freed up some extra cash). Events on the pitch are the reason we are struggling with this debt.

 

Neither Lowe, Wilde nor Crouch have brought much in the way of actually investing their own money into the club and had they done so, they would possibly be given a bit more latitude now.

Agreed.

 

If the new people were to be able to pay of our loans so that we did not have the bank or mortgage holders gun pointed at our head, that would be a major worry lifted.

With the club placed as a mid-to-lower Championship club, that situation would deter 99.9999% of would-be investors. The mortgage is about £19m, I think, plus the £6m or so overdraft facility from Barclays gives a nice round £25m of debt. So in order for an investor to wipe the slate clean, he/she/they need to find £25m just to start work (and of course that doesn't include buying the shares). THEN they'd have to invest further sums of money to fund the purchase of players capable of getting us promoted, which let's face it is a complete lottery in this division - how many of Hull or Stoke's teams from last season would you have classed as promotion-quality this time last year? - and then they've got to hope that those players perform to their ability and achieve promotion. At this point, they've probably spent £50m (£10m on shares, £25m on debt repayment, £15m on transfers, wages and covering the other ridiculously large costs we've got) and there's no guarantee of promotion and a return on their investment. The number of people who would be able, let alone willing, to basically **** away that sort of money is very very low.

 

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to say to other clubs, sorry, he isn't for sale; he is an integral part of our plans to develop a team worthy of promotion.

It would be great to be in that position, but it's a pipe dream even for the likes of Spurs or Villa who are seen as the potential challengers to the "big 4" in the Premier League.

[Snowballs2]

Reduce the prices, get more people in, simple really....

 

 

Are you a rocket scientist ?

[Weston Super Saint]

Are you a rocket scientist ?

 

Yes.

[SaintDonkey]

Reduce the prices, get more people in, simple really....

 

Reduce the prices and you instantly get thousands of season ticket holders up in arms demanding a refund. Cue loads of indignant posts on here complaining and suggesting that all the season ticket holders should demand full refunds. Some bolshy bugger takes it to the small claims court and wins the right to a refund opening the floodgates. The club is obviously in no position to service these refunds and is forced into administration...

 

The simple idea are often the best, but if this one was to work it needed to have been carried out before the season tickets went on sale. It's certainly an option for next year but it's not viable for now.

 

For the moment the only possible plan is "try and get more bums on seats through playing exciting football that's a pleasure to watch - even if the results don't all go our way". And I would say on the basis of Saturday's performance that's what they're doing.

[Weston Super Saint]

Reduce the prices and you instantly get thousands of season ticket holders up in arms demanding a refund. Cue loads of indignant posts on here complaining and suggesting that all the season ticket holders should demand full refunds. Some bolshy bugger takes it to the small claims court and wins the right to a refund opening the floodgates. The club is obviously in no position to service these refunds and is forced into administration...

 

The simple idea are often the best, but if this one was to work it needed to have been carried out before the season tickets went on sale. It's certainly an option for next year but it's not viable for now.

 

For the moment the only possible plan is "try and get more bums on seats through playing exciting football that's a pleasure to watch - even if the results don't all go our way". And I would say on the basis of Saturday's performance that's what they're doing.

 

Or reduce the ticket price to the same as ST holders have already paid - ie £16 per game, thus eliminating the need for a refund....

 

Where's the ST benefit I hear you ask?

 

Guaranteed seat - even IF sold out.

Guaranteed seat where you want it.

No queuing for tickets.

No online malarky for tickets.

Priority tickets for away games and cup matches etc etc.....

 

Right, where's that rocket science book gone????

[ottery st mary]

Or reduce the ticket price to the same as ST holders have already paid - ie £16 per game, thus eliminating the need for a refund....

 

Where's the ST benefit I hear you ask?

 

Guaranteed seat - even IF sold out.

Guaranteed seat where you want it.

No queuing for tickets.

No online malarky for tickets.

Priority tickets for away games and cup matches etc etc.....

 

Right, where's that rocket science book gone????

 

You are definitely the one.

Have spoken to the club to get you on board as soon as. They replied, Can he play Left Back.

[Legod Second Coming]

How about we give away one sock, and then charge double for the other?

 

Why doesn't Lowe think of stuff like this FFS???

 

Lowe out.

 

 

LMAO. You sir are in marketing, no question...