Tonda Eckert

[sfc4prem]

2 minutes ago, Verbal said:

One thing I can not quite get my head around: if spying is such an offence that it's considered reasonable to penalise a club for potentially £100m+, and damage the career of manager, why isn't the practice simply outlawed?

What makes it a gargantuan crime to spy within the last three days before a game, but completely fine and dandy on the fourth day before a game?

They're making it up as they go along. Without the pressure from Boro and their journalists, it would've been us in the final I'm sure.

[trousers]

In today's training footage, Tonda's not looking like a man with the cloud of a lengthy ban hanging over him... That said, looks can obviously be deceptive...

 

[Verbal]

20 minutes ago, trousers said:

In today's training footage, Tonda's not looking like a man with the cloud of a lengthy ban hanging over him... That said, looks can obviously be deceptive...

 

I think you're underestimating Tonda's ability to switch from spliff-happy to Stygian gloom in about 0.00001 of a second. 

[Sheaf Saint]

15 minutes ago, Verbal said:

I think you're underestimating Tonda's ability to switch from spliff-happy to Stygian gloom in about 0.00001 of a second. 

 

 

[Verbal]

That's the one

[sfc4prem]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

In today's training footage, Tonda's not looking like a man with the cloud of a lengthy ban hanging over him... That said, looks can obviously be deceptive...

 

If Cyle looked at me, I'd react like that too.

[Saints4Prem]

3 hours ago, egg said:

And even then, completely different facts. Bielsa isn't a comparable. The Canada case is.

I appreciate like the Canadian we broke a rule but I am not sure that it is really that comparable? We had a chap on a public path, a few hundred metres away with an iPhone, compared to the Canadians using a drone?

[mss636]

20 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

If Eckert must sit it out for a few weeks don't you think Adam Lallana is the more likely stand -in? He and Garner should be able to keep things together 

With Lallana as 1st team coach Tonda had one win in 9 games. As soon as he was moved to the U21s we went unbeaten for the rest of the season. The poor 1st team form seemed to be where he was?

[egg]

25 minutes ago, Saints4Prem said:

I appreciate like the Canadian we broke a rule but I am not sure that it is really that comparable? We had a chap on a public path, a few hundred metres away with an iPhone, compared to the Canadians using a drone?

You've highlighted the similarities.

Both involved spying when it wasn't allowed, filming via a device that wasn't meant to be seen, and with the intention of getting a sporting advantage. 

I'm not sure why people struggle with this. 

[Football Special]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

You've highlighted the similarities.

Both involved spying when it wasn't allowed, filming via a device that wasn't meant to be seen, and with the intention of getting a sporting advantage. 

I'm not sure why people struggle with this. 

🤣  "wasn't meant to be seen" 

Lol I know you enjoy trying to build the case against Tonda / Saints at every opportunity on here but have a day off. It was a bloke stood outside the training ground fence with a mobile phone, not a sophisticated covert operation. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

🤣  "wasn't meant to be seen" 

Lol I know you enjoy trying to build the case against Tonda / Saints at every opportunity on here but have a day off. It was a bloke stood outside the training ground fence with a mobile phone, not a sophisticated covert operation. 

So you think a bloke hiding behind a tree, at distance, was meant to be seen. Bless. 

I don't enjoy building a case. The whole thing was a farce, but we made the case against us. 

Fortunately, the clubs legal team won't be as naive in their approach as you, and some of our fan base.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

🤣  "wasn't meant to be seen" 

Lol I know you enjoy trying to build the case against Tonda / Saints at every opportunity on here but have a day off. It was a bloke stood outside the training ground fence with a mobile phone, not a sophisticated covert operation. 

If he was meant to be seen why didn't Tonda just say "yes that was us, we did it, he was meant to be seen" as soon as it came up?

[saintant]

4 hours ago, trousers said:

In today's training footage, Tonda's not looking like a man with the cloud of a lengthy ban hanging over him... That said, looks can obviously be deceptive...

 

Larin just said to him, 'Can you believe some Boro fans think Lankshear is as good as me boss'

[Holmes_and_Watson]

5 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

 

 

3 match ban for the spying.

Oh, and 25 years for the serial killing. 🙂

[Felix]

Isn't it a legal principle that "Justice delayed is Justice denied?"

[Midfield_General]

Crook (I know) on TalkShite (I know) just now saying that 'people he's spoken to' at Saints 'are fearing the worst' over the punishment heading Tonda's way. 

No sources, no new facts, he didn't imply that people at St Mary's have been told anything yet (just that they're worried, which isn't really a development), and it's him so take with a pinch of salt, but just relaying what he said. 

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Crook (I know) on TalkShite (I know) just now saying that 'people he's spoken to' at Saints 'are fearing the worst' over the punishment heading Tonda's way. 

No sources, no new facts, he didn't imply that people at St Mary's have been told anything yet (just that they're worried, which isn't really a development), and it's him so take with a pinch of salt, but just relaying what he said. 

Isn't he a joke inside the walls of SFC? They used to call him the mushroom because they kept him in the dark and fed him shit. Basically he's just speculating for a headline rather than saying, people he's spoken to think it'll be fine. In fact i wouldn't be surprised if his source was saintsweb.

Edited 1 hour ago by Turkish

[trousers]

Anyone else thinking that a disproportionate ban might not work against us as much as some fans probably think it will..? It could well heighten the seige mentally at the club and galvanise the players to "get promoted for Tonda" whilst sticking two fingers up at the footballing authorities...

I'm obviously not suggesting that a lengthy ban is in anyway desirable, over something more proportional, but just pondering whether it might not be as harmful to our promotion chances as we might initially think...?

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Anyone else thinking that a disproportionate ban might not work against us as much as some fans probably think it will..? It could well heighten the seige mentally at the club and galvanise the players to "get promoted for Tonda" whilst sticking two fingers up at the footballing authorities...

I'm obviously not suggesting that a lengthy ban is in anyway desirable, over something more proportional, but just pondering whether it might not be as harmful to our promotion chances as we might initially think...?

I think the bigger the punishment the better. They should wind the club up, relegate us to the national league south, kick us out of St Marys and make us start again playing our games at Riverside Park. Then we can rise up through leagues with back to back promotions from the Conference South the The Champions league in 6 seasons all done whilst our new 90,000 retractable roof air conditioned stadium is being built on the land next to where St Marys is. Take that EFL, Pow, Sock, Boof, why i oughta, etc........

[Midfield_General]

21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Isn't he a joke inside the walls of SFC? They used to call him the mushroom because they kept him in the dark and fed him shit. Basically he's just speculating for a headline rather than saying, people he's spoken to think it'll be fine. In fact i wouldn't be surprised if his source was saintsweb.

Yep, probably. 

[Midfield_General]

17 minutes ago, trousers said:

Anyone else thinking that a disproportionate ban might not work against us as much as some fans probably think it will..? It could well heighten the seige mentally at the club and galvanise the players to "get promoted for Tonda" whilst sticking two fingers up at the footballing authorities...

I'm obviously not suggesting that a lengthy ban is in anyway desirable, over something more proportional, but just pondering whether it might not be as harmful to our promotion chances as we might initially think...?

I think it very much depends on who would be running the show while Tonda was out. 

Let's say he gets a six month ban from football. Who steps in who has the chops to maintain promotion form? 

If we kept Tonda on while he served a ban, but didn't fire him, it would have to be someone prepared to do it as an interim which you would think would rule out any sort of real quality from the external pool. In that scenario it would be most likely to be someone already at the club stepping in. Garner? Lallana? Neither of them fill me with confidence. 

If we decided it wasn't worth it and fired him, then we're back to the tombola of SR-led managerial appointments. With Rasmus out of the picture and Spors now proving that he knows what he's doing, I'd have more faith now than this time last year that they might get someone decent, but it's still hard to overlook the fact that pre-Tonda their overall record of appointing managers is absolutely horrendous. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Midfield_General

[HKsaint]

13 minutes ago, trousers said:

Anyone else thinking that a disproportionate ban might not work against us as much as some fans probably think it will..? It could well heighten the seige mentally at the club and galvanise the players to "get promoted for Tonda" whilst sticking two fingers up at the footballing authorities...

I'm obviously not suggesting that a lengthy ban is in anyway desirable, over something more proportional, but just pondering whether it might not be as harmful to our promotion chances as we might initially think...?

This would be unfair to Middlesbrough 

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Anyone else thinking that a disproportionate ban might not work against us as much as some fans probably think it will..? It could well heighten the seige mentally at the club and galvanise the players to "get promoted for Tonda" whilst sticking two fingers up at the footballing authorities...

I'm obviously not suggesting that a lengthy ban is in anyway desirable, over something more proportional, but just pondering whether it might not be as harmful to our promotion chances as we might initially think...?

Not for me. We finally need to see some common sense and closure here so perhaps a ban for a low number of matches suspended for 2 years. Tonda, the football club, its owners and fans have already been severely punished. To now hand out a harsh ban to our manager would be unjustified and vindictive. We should not be made an example of particularly when you bear in mind what the elite clubs continually get away with. The FA must not turn this into a witch hunt just to satisfy journalists and pundits who are just waiting to make it another big story. Plus it will blow up massively because Southampton FC's lawyers will not take it lying down. 

[Midfield_General]

38 minutes ago, saintant said:

Plus it will blow up massively because Southampton FC's lawyers will not take it lying down. 

Yeah. They haven't exactly covered themselves in glory in that respect so far have they.

We've not only taken it lying down, we've* rolled over on our belly and lubed ourselves up to save them the bother.

(* By which I mean Parsons, and the crack team he hired before he toddled off to Peppa World on half term. How that bloke is still in a job is beyond me) 

Edited 42 minutes ago by Midfield_General

[saintant]

12 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Yeah. They haven't exactly covered themselves in glory in that respect so far have they.

We've not only taken it lying down, we've* rolled over on our belly and lubed ourselves up to save them the bother.

(* By which I mean Parsons, and the crack team he hired before he toddled off to Peppa World on half term) 

I'm hoping and suspect lessons have been learned. I don't see Dragan rolling over if the FA decide to play hard ball on this.

[Midfield_General]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

I'm hoping and suspect lessons have been learned. I don't see Dragan rolling over if the FA decide to play hard ball on this.

Fair dos. I really hope you're right! 

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Yeah. They haven't exactly covered themselves in glory in that respect so far have they.

We've not only taken it lying down, we've* rolled over on our belly and lubed ourselves up to save them the bother.

(* By which I mean Parsons, and the crack team he hired before he toddled off to Peppa World on half term) 

I know we've been over this before but im not sure if it was arrogance/complacency or very naive. 

Parsons obviously thought playing the old pals act with Gibson and admitting it all would smooth the whole thing over. There were so many things that were weird about it all, how didn't they appeal against a so called independent body which had people associated with Middlesborough on it as just one example, surely we could have appealed on that basis alone. Notwithstanding the fact that we did it and it was bloody stupid and embarassing but we couldn't have made a worst fist of defending it

[benjii]

30 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

I think it very much depends on who would be running the show while Tonda was out. 

Let's say he gets a six month ban from football. Who steps in who has the chops to maintain promotion form? 

If we kept Tonda on while he served a ban, but didn't fire him, it would have to be someone prepared to do it as an interim which you would think would rule out any sort of real quality from the external pool. In that scenario it would be most likely to be someone already at the club stepping in. Garner? Lallana? Neither of them fill me with confidence. 

If we decided it wasn't worth it and fired him, then we're back to the tombola of SR-led managerial appointments. With Rasmus out of the picture and Spors now proving that he knows what he's doing, I'd have more faith now than this time last year that they might get someone decent, but it's still hard to overlook the fact that pre-Tonda their overall record of appointing managers is absolutely horrendous. 

Woy.

[Midfield_General]

15 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I know we've been over this before but im not sure if it was arrogance/complacency or very naive. 

Parsons obviously thought playing the old pals act with Gibson and admitting it all would smooth the whole thing over. There were so many things that were weird about it all, how didn't they appeal against a so called independent body which had people associated with Middlesborough on it as just one example, surely we could have appealed on that basis alone. Notwithstanding the fact that we did it and it was bloody stupid and embarassing but we couldn't have made a worst fist of defending it

It was both. Parsons obviously didn't fuck it up on purpose, but he just wasn't qualified to handle it, he was out of his depth, and the main mistake he made was not identifying that. It was hubris. 

The second it broke he should not have said another word, and should have lawyered up to the absolute max with the best specialist team money could buy, and let them take it from there. But he thought he could keep a lid on it, it all went south from there, and by the time he realised how fucked he was and he started getting on the phone to the people like Pannick who he should have got in from the start, it was too late for them to affect anything. 

Edited 39 minutes ago by Midfield_General

[Midfield_General]

13 minutes ago, benjii said:

Woy.

Still only 79. HCDAJFU.

Or if we want more of an up-and-coming young prospect, Warnock's only 77. 

Edited 40 minutes ago by Midfield_General

[Saint86]

36 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I know we've been over this before but im not sure if it was arrogance/complacency or very naive. 

Parsons obviously thought playing the old pals act with Gibson and admitting it all would smooth the whole thing over. There were so many things that were weird about it all, how didn't they appeal against a so called independent body which had people associated with Middlesborough on it as just one example, surely we could have appealed on that basis alone. Notwithstanding the fact that we did it and it was bloody stupid and embarassing but we couldn't have made a worst fist of defending it

Parsons as good as said it was a stitch up at the fans forum - Essentially said we agreed to the expedited timescale as we had been given assurances by the EFL that expulsion wouldn't happen. And he also accused Middlesbrough of weaponizing the whole thing to get a free bye to the final... (he then added that we'd have done the same ).... Showing, i thought, that he hadn't learnt from the whole affair... i.e., using a fans forum (and pet journos) to once again have a little bitch about the EFL and Boro and showcase his lack of contrition and his general arrogance / naivety about the whole situation. I've no doubt that whilst it stayed out of the national press on that occasion, the overseeing bodies would have heard about it. Equally, i suspect what he said is true, but his opportunity to do anything about it has come and gone, he fumbled it spectacularly. 

Would also add some weight to why there are ongoing issues between saints and the EFL (a board who's 3 championship reps at the time were boro, hull, and pompey - none of which wanted us in the final)... or do people really think the EFL missed half the people in the Birmingham board room by accident.

Edit - And on the subject of the expedited timescale - if we agreed to something like that, it still doesn't mean we had an excuse to half ass it, get it wrong (initially), and then leave ourselves open to being accused of not co-operating and lying etc... Just a complete car crash.

Edited 18 minutes ago by Saint86

[Midfield_General]

11 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Parsons as good as said it was a stitch up at the fans forum - Essentially said we agreed to the expedited timescale as we had been given assurances by the EFL that expulsion wouldn't happen. And he also accused Middlesbrough of weaponizing the whole thing to get a free bye to the final... Showing, i thought, that he hadn't learnt from the whole affair - using a fans forum and pet journos to once again showcase any lack of contrition and his general arrogance / naivety about the whole situation - what he said is quite possibly true, but his opportunity to do anything about it has come and gone, he fumbled it spectacularly. 

Exactly. If he'd put a team of scary lawyers front and centre from the start, then they would have had the expertise to spot when people were trying to string us along or manipulate the situation to their benefit, as well as the power to push back on it and keep some sense of control and balance. But because he thought he knew best he didn't do that, so everyone - Middlesbrough, the EFL, the media - danced rings around him, and here we are. 

He should have been fired the moment the expulsion was announced, but no, he was left in post to fuck up the appeal as well. 

Edited 17 minutes ago by Midfield_General