Guilty of 114 charges

[Killers Knee]

5 minutes ago, Cabrone said:

This is even more motivation to get promoted this season, imagine a championship with City + 2 other parachute payment teams + most of the teams we are already scrapping against this season.

What a dog fight that would be.

Dont forget Spurs

[saintant]

4 hours ago, Killers Knee said:

There is precedent for clubs suing clubs guilty if cheating for loss of income, Burnley/Everton.

Should Southampton warm up the Lawyers?

2015-16. Saints took 3 of 6 from City (lost 3-1 at the Etihad, won 4-2 at home). Final table: City 66, United 66, Saints 63. United took the leftover Europa group spot after winning the FA Cup; Saints still went into the Europa League groups.

If Saints had won both, they gain 3 and City lose 3: Saints 66, United 66, City 63. Saints’ goal difference was +18 against United’s +14, so Saints would have been 4th and in the Champions League. 
 

Do we have a claim?

Surely it goes deeper than just the 2 matches we played against them that season. Every game they played they'd cheated. On that basis they should be reduced to zero points in every game for seasons these charges apply to.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Killers Knee said:

Dont forget Spurs

🤣🤣🤣

[sockeye]

It's not those who lost out on a cup or Champions League place that were affected by Man City's misdemeanours. It is quite literally every single team they played in that period. A City that rejects the path of financial doping creates a timeline that is completely different, as every game a team plays has many second- and third-order effects. Watford lost to City in their FA Cup final, but so did Brighton in the SF - if Brighton beats that weaker City, they get to participate in the final and potentially win it themselves. Even a minnow beaten in the third round could have theoretically won it all.

And what about the academy? In a world where City play fair, they are likely less successful, having less profit to invest into a top-quality academy and less clout to lure in prospects. These fine margins could have led to some players not joining City and compounding their success when sold on for large profits or integrated into the first team. Then that weakens City further in the older age groups and men's first team squad.

It's an absolutely disgraceful situation.

Edited 19 hours ago by sockeye

[Divergent]

If the Premier League expel Man City from the Premier League I don’t think the EFL have to accept them automatically into any of the leagues they control. They could refuse and City could find themselves without a league to play in. 
This would leave PL one team short without upsetting the number of teams in the lower leagues unless PL and EFL come to a one off agreement on only 2 teams being relegated from PL or one more team being promoted from Championship. 
Does that make sense and is that scenario also a possibility even if unlikely?

Edited 16 hours ago by Divergent
Can’t add up!

[St. Ciervo]

None of that is going to happen. Its not like they set an analyst up behind a tree with a phone or anything. A short transfer ban, a low 7-figure fine, and a secret payout to top officials will suffice, am I right?

[do i not like fizzy pop]

And so the softening up in the media for the eventual slap on the wrist begins 

[St. Ciervo]

This might help us though. They cannot let City off and then hammer us in the same breath...right? Oh.

[The Kraken]

I remember when we got the punishment from the EFL, I know it’s a different governing body but the speakers man said that the 4 point deduction was for the league transgressions, and with punishments like that they always try to look forward rather than back. 

With Man City, while I firmly expect a relatively light punishment, I’d be 99% sure that any punishment will only affect future competitions and will not look to strip them of anything.

[Wade Garrett]

Their chairman thinks they can prove their innocence.  He doesn’t get it does he.  Surely there’s paper trails on all these charges.  Smart lawyers can’t change the rules.

Think he’s a bloke who has never had to accept the word no.  Hope he takes his state money and fucks off out of it.
 

[Nordic Saint]

1 hour ago, do i not like fizzy pop said:

And so the softening up in the media for the eventual slap on the wrist begins 

BBC Sport are running a pro-City campaign in complete contrast to how they reported on Saints:

Manchester City charges: Khaldoon Al Mubarak confident club will prove innocence - BBC Sport

 

[coalman]

3 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

BBC Sport are running a pro-City campaign in complete contrast to how they reported on Saints:

Manchester City charges: Khaldoon Al Mubarak confident club will prove innocence - BBC Sport

 

In fairness someone forgetting to keep a receipt 10 years ago pales into insignificance against THE WORST FOOTBALL CRIME EVAH

[Lighthouse]

18 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

BBC Sport are running a pro-City campaign in complete contrast to how they reported on Saints:

Manchester City charges: Khaldoon Al Mubarak confident club will prove innocence - BBC Sport

 

How is reporting direct quotes from City’s owners having a ‘pro-City campaign’ and why would the BBC want that?

[do i not like fizzy pop]

18 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

BBC Sport are running a pro-City campaign in complete contrast to how they reported on Saints:

Manchester City charges: Khaldoon Al Mubarak confident club will prove innocence - BBC Sport

 

Haven't they had the past 2 years to prove their innocence? This isn't charges, this is the verdict on those charges. The media are pathetic 

[Willo of Whiteley]

2 hours ago, St. Ciervo said:

None of that is going to happen. Its not like they set an analyst up behind a tree with a phone or anything. A short transfer ban, a low 7-figure fine, and a secret payout to top officials will suffice, am I right?

Absolutely correct

[Sarnia Cherie]

City's next game is away to Liverpool. They will get a great welcome there. 😀

[Saint NL]

 

 

 

[Osvaldorama]

33 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

 

 

 

Anything less would make a mockery of the entire league. 

The crimes is horrendous in footballing terms. As bad as it gets. 
 

As well as the young players, and distorting the youth teams….

Theres also the fact that they’ve inflated the transfer and wage market for the whole world. Their transfers have typically set the precedent in each window.

The impact their cheating has had is enormous the more you think about it 

[sfc4prem]

11 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Anything less would make a mockery of the entire league. 

The crimes is horrendous in footballing terms. As bad as it gets. 
 

As well as the young players, and distorting the youth teams….

Theres also the fact that they’ve inflated the transfer and wage market for the whole world. Their transfers have typically set the precedent in each window.

The impact their cheating has had is enormous the more you think about it 

Since the days of Robinho!

The football world, particularly the PL riches, is in a very large, very fragile bubble.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Saint NL said:

 

 

 

Seems fair. 

[St. Ciervo]

They are now an internationally-recognizable brand. Relegation, even if only to the Championship, will not happen. I could see some sort of forced sale to another Saudi. <shrug>

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Saint NL said:

 

 

 

Well the EFL set the bar high with us so they need to go really big to beat that. This is their chance.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

How much did they spend in this summer's transfer window? £450m? Why would you spend a lot of money from some kid from Morocco? It almost smells of money laundering.

Seems like Pep left just in time. Meanwhile, one kid with an iphone.......

 

[Osvaldorama]

I wonder if they could be looking at criminal charges?

Fraud and tampering with evidence seems certain?

HMRC etc. will surely be interested in the falsely reported transfers and wages. I imagine their taxes are all wrong? 

So you have a lot of layers here:

1) sporting sanctions

2) Other clubs will sue them

3) Potential criminal charges for all involved?

Mind-boggling the more you think about it. Why on earth did they let it drag on? 

[Turkish]

I read today and obviously don’t know if it’s true but when Mancini was manager contract was he was paid €1m as Man City manager and €4m for 4 days a year consultancy to other clubs in the Man City group of clubs. Enabled them to keep below wages rules 

[Middlewordie]

If the PL do kick them out, the EFL will have a big problem. They cant just parachute MCFC into the Championship, or League 1. It would be League 2 at best, and then only at expense of one of the teams promoted from below. Would it need a vote of all EFL clubs to accept them in?

[Mustang Saint]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

I wonder if they could be looking at criminal charges?

Fraud and tampering with evidence seems certain?

HMRC etc. will surely be interested in the falsely reported transfers and wages. I imagine their taxes are all wrong? 

So you have a lot of layers here:

1) sporting sanctions

2) Other clubs will sue them

3) Potential criminal charges for all involved?

Mind-boggling the more you think about it. Why on earth did they let it drag on? 

I run a business, disguising payments is effectively fraudulent corporation tax returns 

Edited 11 hours ago by Mustang Saint

[Micky]

1 hour ago, Middlewordie said:

If the PL do kick them out, the EFL will have a big problem. They cant just parachute MCFC into the Championship, or League 1. It would be League 2 at best, and then only at expense of one of the teams promoted from below. Would it need a vote of all EFL clubs to accept them in?

And even if they do relegate them to League 2, all this does is compound the problem.  City are big enough and easily rich enough to keep a very good squad and quickly work their way back through the leagues. So essentially demotion to the lower league negatively impacts every other team because essentially one of the available promotion places has already gone. They'd probably go straight back to the Premiere League within 4 seasons to the detriment of all the other EFL teams. 

[Mustang Saint]

Just now, Micky said:

And even if they do relegate them to League 2, all this does is compound the problem.  City are big enough and easily rich enough to keep a very good squad and quickly work their way back through the leagues. So essentially demotion to the lower league negatively impacts every other team because essentially one of the available promotion places has already gone. They'd probably go straight back to the Premiere League within 4 seasons to the detriment of all the other EFL teams. 

How many of there players will want to play in league two, already rumours of players contacting agent's 

[revolution saint]

4 hours ago, Micky said:

And even if they do relegate them to League 2, all this does is compound the problem.  City are big enough and easily rich enough to keep a very good squad and quickly work their way back through the leagues. So essentially demotion to the lower league negatively impacts every other team because essentially one of the available promotion places has already gone. They'd probably go straight back to the Premiere League within 4 seasons to the detriment of all the other EFL teams. 

It’s a good point but there’s not much of an alternative (if they want to go for a very severe punishment anyway). I guess they could suspend them from the league and ban them from loaning out players which would effectively mean they would probably sell all their players and most of the youth team players. You’d get a lot of kickback from the players union on that though.

[Weston Super Saint]

We got three points deducted per transgression, reduced to 2 because Parsons put his hands up quicker than the French facing a German soldier.

They should get a 3 point deduction per transgression, giving them a total deduction of 342 points.  It's only fair.

[Badger]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

We got three points deducted per transgression, reduced to 2 because Parsons put his hands up quicker than the French facing a German soldier.

They should get a 3 point deduction per transgression, giving them a total deduction of 342 points.  It's only fair.

I read somewhere that if their deduction was pro rata with Leicester's financial failings then it would be about 1,000 point deduction. 

[Badger]

I can’t really get caught up in the hysteria about Man City. It doesn’t come as any surprise when you look at the ownership of some of the clubs that there are ‘dodgy’ dealings. 
 

My concern over this is the timing and how it might influence our outcome. Will the FA be swayed by the outcry and the  masses baying for blood to dish out a heavier penalty to Tonda, just to put them on a moral high ground and being seen to “clean the game up” type of bollocks ? 
 

[saintant]

If City are relegated to the bottom tier of the EFL surely their owners will be looking to sell the club as it will hold no attraction or benefit to them. City will have to sell all their main players and will be playing in front of small crowds even at home with little tv money or sponsorship deals. Also shouldn't we expect court cases for individuals over the massive fraud for false accounting plus it's also alleged they paid players and managers more than declared to HMRC. This is either going to blow up massively or be swept under the carpet - my bet is on the latter to protect the Premier League because City are their biggest cash cow. Interesting times ahead.

[saintant]

16 minutes ago, Badger said:

I read somewhere that if their deduction was pro rata with Leicester's financial failings then it would be about 1,000 point deduction. 

For the 9 year time period this was happening City were effectively cheating against every team they played so all their points should be deducted and awarded to their opponents. 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

We got three points deducted per transgression, reduced to 2 because Parsons put his hands up quicker than the French facing a German soldier.

They should get a 3 point deduction per transgression, giving them a total deduction of 342 points.  It's only fair.

I think a good punishment would be 20 point reduction for the next 9 seasons. That matches the 9 years they cheated for

[Badger]

12 minutes ago, saintant said:

For the 9 year time period this was happening City were effectively cheating against every team they played so all their points should be deducted and awarded to their opponents. 

For what purpose? So that someone else can qualify for the 2018/19 Champions League, for example ? 

[egg]

15 minutes ago, Golac&#x27;s Cunning Stunts said:

I think a good punishment would be 20 point reduction for the next 9 seasons. That matches the 9 years they cheated for

They'd stay up every single season, and probably scrape a lesser European place also. That's not a proper punishment.