Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 were they taken in by his spin 2 years or so ago..are they not partly respossible for him being here in the first place..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 were they taken in by his spin 2 years or so ago..are they not partly respossible for him being here in the first place..? Yes we were no question about that. He came in at a time when we were desperate for change ...the problem is he lost his way and we lost trust in him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 It must be great to be perfect. Unless anyone proxied him their shares how are they responsible? Chanting against Lowe, big deal. He went because people bought enough shares to get rid. Same situation as now. I applaud the protesters, but unless someone buys enough shares then Lowe and the jellyfish are going nowhere. Your point is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Yes we were no question about that. He came in at a time when we were desperate for change ...the problem is he lost his way and we lost trust in him he lost his way from day one...he appointed some shady characters really.. did no fan in any sort of influential position (trust, legg, the one or two on here that clearly have connections in the club) even attempt to find out ANYTHING about these people..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 were they taken in by his spin 2 years or so ago..are they not partly respossible for him being here in the first place..? I'm not sure the fans can be held responsible DD as they didn't proxy their share holding to his cause. Unfortunately there are some figures who did and who have subsequently held their hands up and admitted they got it wrong. There was a huge momentum gathering due to discontent with the existing regime that 'anything other than Lowe' has got to be better. We are of course in danger of being in that very same position again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 were they taken in by his spin 2 years or so ago..are they not partly respossible for him being here in the first place..? Yes. You are right TDD. But I cannot turn the clock back. What else do you want to hear ? He managed to convince the likes of Mary Corbett and Patrick Trant too. Should we commit seppuku ? I don wonder sometimes if you are out for the wind-up, mate. Sometimes you are very lucid, other times you write bollllocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowestoft-Saint Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 My feeling on this has never changed, (Im not a Lowe fan) but I could never understand the fans mentality 2 years or so ago with the attitude of 'anyone other than Lowe'. Wilde never impressed me then and has done nothing to impress me since his arrival, in fact all he has managed to do is make the situation we found ourselves in before he arrived, a lot worse. My attitude back then was, yes we need changes but unless the likes of Lowe & Askham can be completly removed from our club, then we will fail to move forward properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2009 no no alps just asking and wonder if the the judgement of US fan is what it is cracked up to be.. not saying lowe is great not at all...does not make me a luvvie...just for once, would liek fans to be a tad sensible..of course lowe has to go...but lets nt do it like last time as we all said he would never come back...and anyone who did (scooby) was laughed at when in fact they were right.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 he lost his way from day one...he appointed some shady characters really.. did no fan in any sort of influential position (trust, legg, the one or two on here that clearly have connections in the club) even attempt to find out ANYTHING about these people..? What difference would that have made. He bought the shares, why do you find it so difficult to comprehend. They're not that influential (except Nick Illingsworth, or so he thinks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 My feeling on this has never changed, (Im not a Lowe fan) but I could never understand the fans mentality 2 years or so ago with the attitude of 'anyone other than Lowe'. Wilde never impressed me then and has done nothing to impress me since his arrival, in fact all he has managed to do is make the situation we found ourselves in before he arrived, a lot worse. My attitude back then was, yes we need changes but unless the likes of Lowe & Askham can be completly removed from our club, then we will fail to move forward properly. But if you remember rightly, Wilde and Co agreed to find a buyer for Lowe and Co.s shares as part of the deal for him to step down, so we expected the club to become Lowe- and Askham-free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2009 What difference would that have made. He bought the shares, why do you find it so difficult to comprehend. They're not that influential (except Nick Illingsworth, or so he thinks). so, are you saying fans did not play apart in lowe going last time..saintsforever never helped in the momentum...the "saints go wilde" T-shirst never played a part in the pressure to change.. the fact fans who could, might have looked into wilde and posted their findings for us all to see....fans with connections in the club could have told us that some of the people he brought in were cack.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowestoft-Saint Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 But if you remember rightly, Wilde and Co agreed to find a buyer for Lowe and Co.s shares as part of the deal for him to step down, so we expected the club to become Lowe- and Askham-free. Yes your right, which is why we should now be even more cautious with other candidates that may step forward with such promises, as we now need to rid the club of at least 3 influential figures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 I dont understand why Mike Wilde, if he does not like all the criticism and shiit he gets, does not simply come forward and publicly identify the party that let him down so badly on their pre-EGM promises about investment / takeover.. I am assuming here they existed and that he is not a Walter Mitty-like character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 the "saints go wilde" T-shirst never played a part in the pressure to change.. Well that's definitely true, as those T shirts were sold in the club shop ie after Wilde was already in place. They were nothing to do with the fans, they were official club merchandise. As for the larger point, I don't think the fans had that much influence. I guess the discontent led a couple of people to realise that Lowe could be removed, but at the end of the day it wasn't the fans who bought the shares and voted at the AGM. Well, a few did, but you get my point surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Well that's definitely true, as those T shirts were sold in the club shop ie after Wilde was already in place. They were nothing to do with the fans, they were official club merchandise. As for the larger point, I don't think the fans had that much influence. I guess the discontent led a couple of people to realise that Lowe could be removed, but at the end of the day it wasn't the fans who bought the shares and voted at the AGM. Well, a few did, but you get my point surely. utter bollix...saintsforever was the main vehicle in gaining momentum for lowe to go... do you think it wont be fans influence that sees him go before relegation/administration... of course fans influence played a part last time....he called off the egm or what ever it was.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarehamRed Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 were they taken in by his spin 2 years or so ago..are they not partly respossible for him being here in the first place..? In the words of George Bush... "There´s an old saying in Tennessee, I know it´s in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says: fool me once, shame on.....shame on you, fool me, you can´t get fooled again!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 utter bollix...saintsforever was the main vehicle in gaining momentum for lowe to go... do you think it wont be fans influence that sees him go before relegation/administration... of course fans influence played a part last time....he called of the egm or what ever it was.. Ok, how about you explain exactly how the fans got rid of Lowe? Actual facts, not just feelings please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Ok, how about you explain exactly how the fans got rid of Lowe? Actual facts, not just feelings please. if you cant see how saintsforever DID NOT play a part (never said theyu did it alone) but to deny saintsforever did not PLAY A PART is utter nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 were they taken in by his spin 2 years or so ago..are they not partly respossible for him being here in the first place..? No. There's a difference between hope given through Wilde's removal of Lowe and the subsequent backtracking that has led to Lowe's ineptitude setting us up nicely for relegation once again. You can't blame any fan for having optimism... it's what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 if you cant see how saintsforever DID NOT play a part (never said theyu did it alone) but to deny saintsforever did not PLAY A PART is utter nonsense Like I said, explain to me how? To save you the trouble, Lowe went because Wilde and Crouch bought a load of shares and used them to evict him. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 so, are you saying fans did not play apart in lowe going last time..saintsforever never helped in the momentum...the "saints go wilde" T-shirst never played a part in the pressure to change.. the fact fans who could, might have looked into wilde and posted their findings for us all to see....fans with connections in the club could have told us that some of the people he brought in were cack.. You're talking out of your arse. I also think you over-estimate the influence of a messageboard, and the t-shirts were after he came to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 so, are you saying fans did not play apart in lowe going last time..saintsforever never helped in the momentum...the "saints go wilde" T-shirst never played a part in the pressure to change.. the fact fans who could, might have looked into wilde and posted their findings for us all to see....fans with connections in the club could have told us that some of the people he brought in were cack.. the fact fans who could, might have looked into wilde and posted their findings for us all to see.... Errm. ... I did. Look back at the archive of the old forum if that is still possible. I said I'd had some dealings with one of his companies, though not him personally, that gave me concern. However at that time anyone who even hinted that Wilde might not be all he was being cracked up to be was slated as a lowe luvvie. No one wanted to hear. Not that it would have made a jot of difference. Money for shares is all that would make a real difference. I don't want either of Lowe or Wilde at my club, but I am powerless, as we all are, unless any of you have a few spare million? K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2009 You're talking out of your arse. I also think you over-estimate the influence of a messageboard, and the t-shirts were after he came to the club. lol saintsforever was the way wilde used to communicate to the fans...his username is now saintmarc...ffs he told us all his plans via keith legg, and WE (including me) fell for it and wanted change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzmeister Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Are fans always right though (cough....not getting Hoddle back.....cough) No one likes Lowe, we all see that but until a viable alternative is there (I know what Crouch says but we dont know that for absolute fact) then were in a bit if a tight spot. All we can do as fans at the moment is get behind the manager and team. We altimatly dont effect the boardroom none of us are rich or powerful enough to exert that sort of influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Like I said, explain to me how? To save you the trouble, Lowe went because Wilde and Crouch bought a load of shares and used them to evict him. Simple as that. lol if you want to dismiss saintsforever and the part it played then that is up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Its a good point on this messageboard. It does have an impact in the Club but what's more it drives most media stories about Saints. But, none of us could have expected Wilde to turn so dramatically. There is something very sinister about it for a man who did intend to do some good for this club... and it will come out one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 I don't think you can blame anyone for believing his lies. It still makes no sense why he made all those lies up, perhaps he was so sure his gamble would get us promoted and finding investment then would be no problem - I dont know and neither do you. The thing is there was nothing us fans could do to stop him any way, and if someone comes in promising the earth there is nothing we can do to prove they will actually spend the money. Abramovich could turn around and stitch Chelsea up now, the Arabs could do the same to City. If someone turns up promising investment again I would jump at the chance, because one thing we know for sure, we will get naff all from Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Ok, how about you explain exactly how the fans got rid of Lowe? Actual facts, not just feelings please. if fans cant/or did not get rid of lowe...thenwhy bother protesting through town..after all it wont make a blind bit of difference and a waste of time all round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 if fans cant/or did not get rid of lowe...thenwhy bother protesting through town..after all it wont make a blind bit of difference and a waste of time all round I tend to agree with you to a certain extent. But it is better than doing nothing, and did get a fair bit of media coverage. The only fans action that is likely to rid us of Lowe and Wilde is a boycott. That's where the protest went wrong at the weekend. They should have stayed outside the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Yes, I was. I have no idea what Wilde's motives were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 were they taken in by his spin 2 years or so ago..are they not partly respossible for him being here in the first place..? Is Michael Wilde partly responsible for the position we currently find ourselves in? A definite yes, but it has to be put in context and remembered in it's entirety, but he must accept his share of the blame along with a number of others. Was he a complete failure? No, as anyone who can remember getting to the play offs will testify to. Has he made poor error of judgement in backing Lowe to bring in Poortvliet & the "Revolutionary Coaching Set Up"? I would say, Yes. Were those he appointed failures? Once again a mixed bag. In the first season we reached the play offs, costs were reduced and net debt was at it's lowest for years. The following year as promises of investment never materialised, shareholders fought amongst themselves and SISU's offer sought to make them saviours, they lost their way (seriously). Hoos has gone on to Leicester, where you have to assume he's doing a good job, but no idea where Hone has ended up. But if his target was to get us promoted within a couple of years, then he has to be deemed as a failure, but as is the case with Lowe and others, it's not simply an open and shut case. However, those who believed he could bring about change at this Club (myself included) were probably let down, call it wrong in their judgement if you want. As to how responsible some fans (myself included) are in him being here, well we must shoulder our share of the blame, but once again it has to be put in context and considered as to how much of a part it played (but it did play some part). But I don't feel overly comfortable with hanging supporters out to dry with regards the decisions of others they believed could bring something positive to the Club. Were those who backed Lowe when he started to lose the plot post WGS to blame for him being here and making a number of disastrous decisions? Of course not. The overwhelming majority acted in good faith believing he was the right man and thet cannot be blamed for our demise. Are those fans who supported (or who were at least indifferent to) Lowe coming back this time to blame for his appointment of Poortvliet and the failings to date? Of course not, and it would be foolish and churlish to suggest they should bear the responsibility of someone elses actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 It was a very difficult time for fans still raw with emotion from the relegation and a seemingly lack of direction as to how we should get straight back up. Many simply wanted a a new chapter, something different, even those who had been relatively supportive of Lowe during the previous 5 or 6 years. The thing is despite urging caution when Wilde and CRouch turned up, because it was clear that whilst they talked a good game, there was nothing concrete in their plans, I cant say i wanted them to fail... I wanted it all to be true, with Wilde and CRouch prooving to be the dream team. I did not however, believe it. Why? Because a) the legendary manifestor was full of desire butt no substance and the pandering.... the pandering to fans, lots of 'we've got our club back' rhetotic and getting the Corbetts and LMs back... surely whats wrong with that, these folk have a strong history with teh club???? you may ask... well its exactly taht history that is the problem... its a history that spanned a different era and culture in football, when it still truely was about community spirit and small scale non -profit enterprise.... Things have changed so dramatically, and the words spread publically from LM and MC did nots eem to acknowledge this shift, this change, it was as if all the woes and problems could be lifted purely by teh wave of nostalgia and the self belief taht if we wanted our club back enough and supported the noble words, all would be magical again ... Now culturally it possible to still run clubs that way if prepared to be small fry, but not if we really want to be part of the top flight and stable again... I have never said that Lowe and his cronies are the only ones who can do this, there are likley to be many who are better, but I simply cant see from what we have seen and heard (which is little on strategy) how Crouch ( and Wilde at the the time) et al were going to deliver or that they saw past the nostalgia with practical solutions... it was a concern then and is a concern now. (And yes, I also struggle to see how the recent changes from JP to Wotte is going to make a difference, or with the benefit of hindsight how we were going to do with just kids - although I could see why it was done and hoped it would work) For me that sort of summarizes why I feel as I do, far from satisfied with the way things have turned out, but unsure of where change will come from and what impact it will have... in this case, simply 'making fans happier , does not cut it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 were they taken in by his spin 2 years or so ago..are they not partly respossible for him being here in the first place..? Yes I was taken in but we all make mistakes don't we...some even thought JP would do well for us didn't they DD? As for protesting...whats the difference between doing that and complaining in a restaurant about a shoddy meal? Only difference is we have had years of shoddy meals. If you pay your money then you are entitled to complain if that product is sub-standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Is Michael Wilde partly responsible for the position we currently find ourselves in? A definite yes, but it has to be put in context and remembered in it's entirety, but he must accept his share of the blame along with a number of others. Was he a complete failure? No, as anyone who can remember getting to the play offs will testify to. Has he made poor error of judgement in backing Lowe to bring in Poortvliet & the "Revolutionary Coaching Set Up"? I would say, Yes. Were those he appointed failures? Once again a mixed bag. In the first season we reached the play offs, costs were reduced and net debt was at it's lowest for years. The following year as promises of investment never materialised, shareholders fought amongst themselves and SISU's offer sought to make them saviours, they lost their way (seriously). Hoos has gone on to Leicester, where you have to assume he's doing a good job, but no idea where Hone has ended up. But if his target was to get us promoted within a couple of years, then he has to be deemed as a failure, but as is the case with Lowe and others, it's not simply an open and shut case. However, those who believed he could bring about change at this Club (myself included) were probably let down, call it wrong in their judgement if you want. As to how responsible some fans (myself included) are in him being here, well we must shoulder our share of the blame, but once again it has to be put in context and considered as to how much of a part it played (but it did play some part). But I don't feel overly comfortable with hanging supporters out to dry with regards the decisions of others they believed could bring something positive to the Club. Were those who backed Lowe when he started to lose the plot post WGS to blame for him being here and making a number of disastrous decisions? Of course not. The overwhelming majority acted in good faith believing he was the right man and thet cannot be blamed for our demise. Are those fans who supported (or who were at least indifferent to) Lowe coming back this time to blame for his appointment of Poortvliet and the failings to date? Of course not, and it would be foolish and churlish to suggest they should bear the responsibility of someone elses actions. Those are all very valid points and to be honest, although it sometimes comes across as wantiing to blame fans on either side for their support of one situation over another - this is usually simply born out of the frustration of opinions not being at the very least respected, if not correctly understood. The only folk to blame for this situation are the those directly involved in the decisions... but as you point out as the fans made thse in good faith, so I believe did those making the decisons,even when ultimately flawed.... my biggest gripe has been against those who have seen a 'deliberate' attempt to feck things up in every deciosn made rather than appreciating that although its not turned out as the senior directors would have hoped, its been done with at least some logic behind the deciosn, even with we believe from teh outset that it was not necessarily the right way to go... I think we too often base our judgements of these decisions on limited data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 I remember a few posters warned against Wilde, GuidedMissile was one that immediatly springs to mind, Lowe warned us all about Wilde does that make him a good judge of character ? which then conflicts wholly with the current position. For me, too much 'blame' is put on fans for the wrongs of the club, our shareholders make the changes and the decisions, if they are influenced by fan opinion then it is they that must carry the can, larger more prominent shareholders failed to carry out due diligence on Wilde and some have cum their guts and said so, others say fu(k all and continued to draw salary/expenses throughout his tenure. There are far more out there in positions of influence that should and could have prevented the financial meltdown(if we can call it that). Fans are Fans and should have little or no responsibility, however, we must ensure our team gets the best support our town can offer, to that end, many are failing as some feel who is in the chair determines the level of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 my biggest gripe has been against those who have seen a 'deliberate' attempt to feck things up in every deciosn made rather than appreciating that although its not turned out as the senior directors would have hoped' date='[/quote'] I have to say that once again I think your giving too much airtime and credcibility to a few nutters who think Lowe (and/or others) set out to destroy this Club for whatever reasons (or claim that he would rather us be run as profitable venture in the 4th division as opposed to being in the Prem). I don't think Lowe, Wilde, Crouch, Hone, Hoos or whoever ever set out to deliberatley fail and I very much doubt that anyone (or at least anyone with a semblence of brain cells) really feels they ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Just goes to show how poor fans collective judgement is when it comes to football management matters. Was Lowe guilty the first time? Well he was a big contributing factor to our relegation but let's not forget we had major injury problems as well. Could we have pulled away from relegation with the appointment of Redknapp? I think so if he had been given full support and left to get on with the job without the left field interference. Was Wilde at fault for what followed? Well to a certain extent, yes. He came in on an investment whim and with no experience. He was out of his depth with no money. Was Crouch the answer? Well he was the supporters "friend" but I always felt his judgment was swayed by that mantle and an ever hope of the mythical investment white charger. Is Lowe and Wilde the answer? Well I can see the reason for them coming back and I have always appreciated they were going to be focused on finances rather that what the supporters wanted and I have some sympathy with their position but they have been divisive, they have gambled with their appointments and we are heading for the drop which will seal their incompetence. BUT, if we avoid both relegation and Administration and have something to build on for the future I would deem it a satisfactory return OR maybe my judgement is the one that is poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Originally Posted by Thedelldays he lost his way from day one...he appointed some shady characters really.. did no fan in any sort of influential position (trust, legg, the one or two on here that clearly have connections in the club) even attempt to find out ANYTHING about these people..? What difference would that have made. He bought the shares, why do you find it so difficult to comprehend. They're not that influential (except Nick Illingsworth, or so he thinks). Illingsworth is the only one who has put out a balanced view over the years, unlike the rest of the muppets who keep getting things so wrong and still believe their opinion has merit. NI said at the time that it was time for Lowe to step down, but would not give Wilde his full backing because there were so many unknowns and irregularities. Pity the other idiots could not have taken a leaf out of his book. Throughout all of this his over riding message has been for all of them to work together, the only way looking back we could have ever achieved anything. We have got a lot of posters on here that have been so wrong about Wilde and various investments yet still spout sheite as if it comes from the oracle itself. Yet this track record gets over looked as they try to promote the new way forward for Saints. Forget the truth and what really matters, as long as Illingsworth does not hate Lowe or just wants the best for Saints, he will be viewed by the muppets as a traitor. Whereas his track record tells the opposite story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 I have to say that once again I think your giving too much airtime and credcibility to a few nutters who think Lowe (and/or others) set out to destroy this Club for whatever reasons (or claim that he would rather us be run as profitable venture in the 4th division as opposed to being in the Prem). I don't think Lowe, Wilde, Crouch, Hone, Hoos or whoever ever set out to deliberatley fail and I very much doubt that anyone (or at least anyone with a semblence of brain cells) really feels they ever did. I would say you are maybe underestimating this number, or at least the very vocal way in which those that do think this way force across their points - it may be a matter of perception from these boards, but its still the impression given by many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 It must be great to be perfect. Unless anyone proxied him their shares how are they responsible? Chanting against Lowe, big deal. He went because people bought enough shares to get rid. Same situation as now. I applaud the protesters, but unless someone buys enough shares then Lowe and the jellyfish are going nowhere. Your point is.... Didn't stop your mate Crouch siding with Wilde at the time did it? As you say it must be great to be perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Didn't stop your mate Crouch siding with Wilde at the time did it? As you say it must be great to be perfect! My mate Crouch? sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 My mate Crouch? sweet. Sorry, didn't realise you were a Lowe luvvie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 I think the one area of influence fans do have is that for both Wilde and in particular CRouch, they want to be seen as doing the right thing by fans... as we know Lowe does not seem to care and makes his decions based on what he believes to be right for the club, but it seems Crouch in particular wants/needs that endorsemnet from fans to underwrite his approach - his populist appraoch seems on the serface to confirm this. I am not saying its completely wrong - afterall keeping customers happy is vital - but it can make it it difficult to make thsoe difficult and unpopular yet necessary decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 FFS We're the sh11ttiest fans in the world . We always manage to get the worst managers, worst players, worst results and worst Chairmen. FFS sort it out guys and stop causing all these problems : roll : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncoboy Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Michael Wilde is partly responsibe for the current situation as is any board member over the last decade. Rupert Lowe is a disgrace his political machinations ensuring that with his 6% he controls the club may be clever but the pity is he has been such a failure. Not a failure, a disaster. On any measure, investment, how much he has paid himself, growth of the fanbase, football on the pitch, managers, etc etc. Michael Wilde is a fool if he bought into a club with no ability to deliver investment.To get that bit wrong shows he must be a bit of a **** . I dont expect RL to invest because he has only ever taken money out in payments to himself. One thng for certain the state of the club is not the fans fault. No matter how much Lowe luvvies would like to deflect blame from Sir Rupert. Only the board members make the decisions that impact the club. They are supposed to be the ones with the experience the business skills. History will show that Rupert will go down as the worst chairman ever for the Saints and proabably in Englsih fooball. What a loser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 I would say you are maybe underestimating this number' date=' or at least the very vocal way in which those that do think this way force across their points - it may be a matter of perception from these boards, but its still the impression given by [b']many[/b]? You'd be lucky to get more than three who think lowe and/or others are deliberately making these mistakes. It's just so illogical even if for this nerdy forum. You need to go and get some fresh air fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 Sorry, didn't realise you were a Lowe luvvie. What a clever boy you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 I remember a few posters warned against Wilde, GuidedMissile was one that immediatly springs to mind, Lowe warned us all about Wilde does that make him a good judge of character ? which then conflicts wholly with the current position. For me, too much 'blame' is put on fans for the wrongs of the club, our shareholders make the changes and the decisions, if they are influenced by fan opinion then it is they that must carry the can, larger more prominent shareholders failed to carry out due diligence on Wilde and some have cum their guts and said so, others say fu(k all and continued to draw salary/expenses throughout his tenure. There are far more out there in positions of influence that should and could have prevented the financial meltdown(if we can call it that). Fans are Fans and should have little or no responsibility, however, we must ensure our team gets the best support our town can offer, to that end, many are failing as some feel who is in the chair determines the level of support. GM warned us of many realities that we did not wish to know at the time. But Lowe's negativity, abysmal person-to-person, media skills but above all dreadful judgement dominated everything, and drove the 'Lowe Out' movement to its logical conclusion. Lowe is a loser and always will be . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 The Saints Trust let everyone down by excepting the share proxy from Wilde. They were warned at the time that this was tantamount to throwing away their independence, but sadly they had an incompetent chairman that couldn't see past the end of his nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(not THE) Kevin Moore Posted 3 February, 2009 Share Posted 3 February, 2009 this club lurches from one extreme to another. We had too much 'long-term at the expense of the short-term' thinking from Lowe, followed by an outbreak of Myopia from the fans and then from Wilde and Crouch. We were told at the time that Wilde and Crouch didn't have the financial clout to make a difference, they fed us a load of old bull about bringing in investors. We fell for it hook line and sinker. We HAVE been lied to, a lot, but while there is evidence to support the fact that Crouch and Wilde have lied there is less in support of Lowe lying to us. We need to think really carefully before we attempt to hound Lowe out once again, where is the rich benefactor going to come from in the midst of a global recession? I wanted Lowe out and Wilde and Crouch in... I was wrong. Now I want Lowe, Wilde AND Crouch out... as soon as, but not if means things get worse. 'Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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