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amazing, two home wins and, according to a lot of fans our worries are over. get real, we need at least 15 more points and we have to by pass admin. then and only then will we be out of the mire!

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amazing, two home wins and, according to a lot of fans our worries are over. get real, we need at least 15 more points and we have to by pass admin. then and only then will we be out of the mire!

 

You must be referring to Alpine there then, nobody else sees it that way, think most have only found some hope

 

;)

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amazing, two home wins and, according to a lot of fans our worries are over. get real, we need at least 15 more points and we have to by pass admin. then and only then will we be out of the mire!

 

I'm living games one by one at the moment.

 

Two good wins won't change the season but at least the team is together, more balanced and scoring.

 

We all know why and how we are in this mess, and by god I want Lowe strung up for the fiasco, but we now have no choice - he's here probably to the end of the season.

 

Wotte has fooooked me off with his comments about the fans but I can't argue about what he has done with the team...as long as it continues.

 

Fingers crossed eh...

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amazing, two home wins and, according to a lot of fans our worries are over. get real, we need at least 15 more points and we have to by pass admin. then and only then will we be out of the mire!

 

I agree - time to keep our feet on the ground. I hope that the euphoria that appears to have broken out here is not evident in the squad. They players need to know that there is still an awful lot of work to be done to turn this one around. Let's put the champagne on ice until the end of the season - if there is cause to break it out - it will taste that much sweeter.

 

Now - sleeves up - lets work!

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not read everything today but can't say seen anyone saying we are safe?

 

Certainly lot more confident than I was leaving St Marys after Doncaster.

 

All games since he's been in charge have shown improvement, beating the 4th place team two weeks in a row (and Cardiff who I think he the least defeats, least away defeats and were on quite a run) has definately given good reason for optimism -but the league table prevents that running as far as confidence.

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amazing, two home wins and, according to a lot of fans our worries are over. get real, we need at least 15 more points and we have to by pass admin. then and only then will we be out of the mire!

 

 

I think most of us are just enjoying the short lived euphoria that is created by winning a couple of home games.

The reality will return on Monday but two wins on the bounce is a cracking start to our survival.

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not read everything today but can't say seen anyone saying we are safe?

 

Certainly lot more confident than I was leaving St Marys after Doncaster.

 

All games since he's been in charge have shown improvement, beating the 4th place team two weeks in a row (and Cardiff who I think he the least defeats, least away defeats and were on quite a run) has definately given good reason for optimism -but the league table prevents that running as far as confidence.

 

Agree with that Nick - but in our postition, I will only breath easily once we are mathimatically safe - not before. All I'm saying is lets not get into a false sence of security on the back of good results until that security is guaranteed - let's not give the fat lass a chance to break into song.

 

You know what it's like on here with the 'We'll walk this leaguers...!' ;)

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not read everything today but can't say seen anyone saying we are safe?

 

Certainly lot more confident than I was leaving St Marys after Doncaster.

 

All games since he's been in charge have shown improvement, beating the 4th place team two weeks in a row (and Cardiff who I think he the least defeats, least away defeats and were on quite a run) has definately given good reason for optimism -but the league table prevents that running as far as confidence.

 

Not that we are safe Nick, but there are many now posting the 'perhaps Lowe isn't that wrong' theory....which in truth regardless of personal opinion, is a little premature.

 

The fact that Wotte is now in charge playing a mix of youth and experience (the traditional way in footballing circles) then I guess it is an admission of his policies being flawed.

 

I think that is what is causing muffled laughter on here - two wins (and good wins at that, don't get me wrong) and people are getting carried away...

 

Now, another win on Tuesday and we are getting a proper run together..

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i wouldn't say false optimism because we didn't fluke the last 2 wins, we fully deserved them. under wotte we have been scoring a good number of goals and we have improved a lot defensively so if that continues then we will of course win more gmaes. yesterday was easily our best defensive performance of the season and i always felt confident that we wouldn't concede with saeijs and kelv dominating the area. saga is on form, mcgoldrick has got his confidence back, lallana is getting back to his best and drew is still getting goals so we have plenty of goal threats.

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Not that we are safe Nick, but there are many now posting the 'perhaps Lowe isn't that wrong' theory....which in truth regardless of personal opinion, is a little premature.

 

The fact that Wotte is now in charge playing a mix of youth and experience (the traditional way in footballing circles) then I guess it is an admission of his policies being flawed.

 

I think that is what is causing muffled laughter on here - two wins (and good wins at that, don't get me wrong) and people are getting carried away...

 

Now, another win on Tuesday and we are getting a proper run together..

 

Not gone on those threads as the pettiness was getting silly on some of the board room/ protest threads recently. I go for the football and thats what I will judge on.

 

(truth is we don't know who made what decisions on who could play, and what was his policy anyway? Try and bring young players in asap? Certainly using Lallana, James and Gillett who were not in first 11 last year, and DMG ...doh drifting into politics!;)

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amazing, two home wins and, according to a lot of fans our worries are over. get real, we need at least 15 more points and we have to by pass admin. then and only then will we be out of the mire!

 

amazing. We finally get a break and you're slamming us for having a bit of optimism? Get real, no-one thinks that suddenly a miracle has occurred and now we're definitely safe.

 

Apologies for being happy at 6 points from 2 games. But it could be the break we're looking for.

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Seems a bit churlish to moan about being positive. Another few weeks of the form we showed under Poortvliet and we would have been all but doomed, at least we are now fighting for our lives with a chance of staying up. I don't think anyone thinks we are now a great team, but at least there is hope...

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i wouldn't say false optimism because we didn't fluke the last 2 wins, we fully deserved them. under wotte we have been scoring a good number of goals and we have improved a lot defensively so if that continues then we will of course win more gmaes. yesterday was easily our best defensive performance of the season and i always felt confident that we wouldn't concede with saeijs and kelv dominating the area. saga is on form, mcgoldrick has got his confidence back, lallana is getting back to his best and drew is still getting goals so we have plenty of goal threats.

 

That's the way I see it too.

 

But the risk is there that the damage has already been done. The teams around us are picking points up too.

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our chances are improving with every game.

3 game ago we required 2.2 ponts per game to be in with a shout,now we only need about 1 point per game.

i know its a bit geeky but this is the sort of things the bookies look at when deciding their odds and ours is looking ok at the moment.

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I think its the beauty of being a fan... and the hardest part, how one little victory makes us want to believe, and with every defeat we are doomed. That rollercoaster is what makes this game so addictive, painful and joyous.

 

I think the last two games have not meant we are safe, but they have given us hope... but to paraphase John Clease ' we can live with the depression, but its the hope thats a killer'

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No such thing as false optimism in football... its another intangible that makes it fun.

 

One has to assess the realities of the situation with one's head rather than heart though. Head = still in the relegation zone. Still have the worst chairman in SFC history. Still have a coach with dubious player support. Still have a divided boardroom.

 

Relegation looms, but what's worse is that with the current leadership (or lack of it) Saints will actually continue to fall thereafter.

 

If we stay up, we face a similar season next season under Lowe whatever the league.

 

You can have optimism once the catalyst for failure and low confidence is removed for good. Lowe.

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amazing, two home wins and, according to a lot of fans our worries are over. get real, we need at least 15 more points and we have to by pass admin. then and only then will we be out of the mire!

 

Can't say that I saw anyone saying that. Merely that there are finally some grounds for optimism. We will only be safe when mathematically we cannot be relagated. There is a long way to go yet.

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Not that we are safe Nick, but there are many now posting the 'perhaps Lowe isn't that wrong' theory....which in truth regardless of personal opinion, is a little premature.

 

The fact that Wotte is now in charge playing a mix of youth and experience (the traditional way in footballing circles) then I guess it is an admission of his policies being flawed.

 

I think that is what is causing muffled laughter on here - two wins (and good wins at that, don't get me wrong) and people are getting carried away...

 

Now, another win on Tuesday and we are getting a proper run together..

 

I diont think anyone will really believe 'perhaps Lowe is not that wrong' because even if Wotte does a Pearson, there is still the question mark over why JP and not Wotte from the outset?

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I diont think anyone will really believe 'perhaps Lowe is not that wrong' because even if Wotte does a Pearson' date=' there is still the question mark over why JP and not Wotte from the outset?[/quote']

 

Why indeed, but why keep going over the same ground? It is done. JP had a track record of bringing through youth and I suppose that Lowe thought he was the better bet for the 1st team role. As it turned out it probably should have been the other way round but we are all geniouses with the 20/20 vision of hindsight aren't we?

 

I see the logic of the original decision in the same way I didn't see the logic in brining in failed Coventy manager Gordon Strachan. Some things work, some things don't. If they don't work they need to be changed and they have been. As far as the rest of the season goes that is the only thing that matters.

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Why indeed, but why keep going over the same ground? It is done. JP had a track record of bringing through youth and I suppose that Lowe thought he was the better bet for the 1st team role. As it turned out it probably should have been the other way round but we are all geniouses with the 20/20 vision of hindsight aren't we?

 

I see the logic of the original decision in the same way I didn't see the logic in brining in failed Coventy manager Gordon Strachan. Some things work, some things don't. If they don't work they need to be changed and they have been. As far as the rest of the season goes that is the only thing that matters.

 

I agree, and the wonders of the retrospectoscope clearly show that given JPs background him looking after the youth and Reserves would have seemed a more logical throw of the dice...

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I agree' date=' and the wonders of the retrospectoscope clearly show that given JPs background him looking after the youth and Reserves would have seemed a more logical throw of the dice...[/quote']

 

Maybe, but that was not the decison was it and for whatever reason it was made, he has now gone and we have a new manager.

 

I am sure we have all worked in places where ceratin people have been promoted and booted out shortly after because they were the "wrong" choice. Managers in the CCC last what, a season or less nowdays? We are not alone in making the wrong choice.

 

JP obvioulsy impressed and did enough to get the job, as did Harry Redknapp and we all know what happened there.

 

To be fair to JP, he had a decent away record, it was his home results that screwed him.

 

But we can (and do) spend hours on hear whittering on about what went wrong and why. All that interests me right now is can Wotte keep this going and can he keep us up?

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I agree' date=' and the wonders of the retrospectoscope clearly show that given JPs background him looking after the youth and Reserves would have seemed a more logical throw of the dice...[/quote']

 

Im not trying to have a dig but this is one of the things that realy gets omy goat about Rupes. A mistake has been made in putting JP ahead of Wotte and looking at past and present success's its obvious which way round things should have been. So it doesnt matter if Rupes made the decission or if it was done on a vote. He is the chairman and he should be the one coming out holding his hands up with an apologie.

 

That will never happen though, and that is what drives fans mad and IMO the start of all the Lowe out campaigns.

 

he is tnot the 1st chairman to make a mistake but he seems like he is the only one that manages to blame anything and everything that goes wrong on just about everyone else. A little bit of humility and some ownership of some of our problems and I think he would have a much better standing amongst the fans.

 

That said, I am glad Wotte is now in charge as he seems to have made a few tweeks and the team is back on track. The diamond 4-4-2 is just another variation of 4-3-3 so things on the pitch are not that much different. The choice of players in positions seems to have had a greater impact. Mule up front although no goals seems to be causing havoc and he is much more effective. Not affraid to sub the wonder kid Lallana either which IMO has needed to happen on a fair few occasions.

 

So now while I know we are not out of trouble I do think there is enough reason to hope and even believe that the team have enough in them to survive. Will take a mighty efforr but it can be done.

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False optimism? No

Hope? Yes

 

We have plenty of reasons to be hopeful actually.

Charlton are gone, Norwich are as good as gone because they made a crassly stupid managerial appointment so we have just one place to go. We have as good a chance as Forest,Barnsley,Plymouth or Blackpool. As long as we keep on playing as we have for the last 2 weeks we might just make it.I mean look at the side we're putting out now, is that a relegation side?...no it isn't.

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amazing, two home wins and, according to a lot of fans our worries are over. get real, we need at least 15 more points and we have to by pass admin. then and only then will we be out of the mire!

 

It's no more amazing than people writing us off 15 games before the end of the season when we are only 6 points from safety. I've not heard anyone saying our worries are over but 6 points from two games we expected little from is a good start.

 

If you want relegation, keep talking it down though. If you want us to survive give the player a pat on the back for what they have achieved this last week.

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amazing, two home wins and, according to a lot of fans our worries are over. get real, we need at least 15 more points and we have to by pass admin. then and only then will we be out of the mire!

 

I don't see that. I just think that people are seeing that we have turned a corner and it is still a long and winding road, and the finish line is coming up awfully fast.

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What worries me is that the other teams down there seem to be turning it around too.........Donacaster, Derby and Watford for example

 

Forest and Plymouth posted excellent wins over the weekend, and although Norwich seemed doomed I thought that about Donny a few weeks back, things can change so easily we just need to pick something up over the next 2 games as I feel the other teams will step up when required.

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What worries me is that the other teams down there seem to be turning it around too.........Donacaster, Derby and Watford for example

 

Forest and Plymouth posted excellent wins over the weekend, and although Norwich seemed doomed I thought that about Donny a few weeks back, things can change so easily we just need to pick something up over the next 2 games as I feel the other teams will step up when required.

 

I know what you mean and I am looking at the likes of Plymouth and Blackpool to be dragged into the last spots rather than Norwich and Nots Forrest.

 

There are still plenty of teams fighting to avoid probably 2 spots. It just looks worse cause we are in them right now. Last day of the season may see 1 or 2 of those releagtion places occupied by 5 or 6 different teams before the final whistle.

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No such thing as false optimism in football... its another intangible that makes it fun.

 

One has to assess the realities of the situation with one's head rather than heart though. Head = still in the relegation zone. Still have the worst chairman in SFC history. Still have a coach with dubious player support. Still have a divided boardroom.

 

Relegation looms, but what's worse is that with the current leadership (or lack of it) Saints will actually continue to fall thereafter.

 

If we stay up, we face a similar season next season under Lowe whatever the league.

 

You can have optimism once the catalyst for failure and low confidence is removed for good. Lowe.

 

whilst I agree with most of above -everything to me suggests exactly the opposite to the bit in bold, which is why we have improved

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I haven't really heard many people on here saying we are definitely going to stay up after our last 2 games. However, people seem to be saying that we've given ourselves a fighting chance, where as before we were convinced we were heading for League One. Make no mistake about it, we still have ALOT of work to do, but we are making steps in the right direction. Under Wotte, there seems to be a new found desire and passion. The team are working as a unit and things are improving.

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Why indeed, but why keep going over the same ground? It is done. JP had a track record of bringing through youth and I suppose that Lowe thought he was the better bet for the 1st team role. As it turned out it probably should have been the other way round but we are all geniouses with the 20/20 vision of hindsight aren't we?

 

I see the logic of the original decision in the same way I didn't see the logic in brining in failed Coventy manager Gordon Strachan. Some things work, some things don't. If they don't work they need to be changed and they have been. As far as the rest of the season goes that is the only thing that matters.

 

Not everyone is using hindsight. There were a tidy few who predicted it all right at the start. Or were they just negative, or clever, or perspicacious, or "lucky" guessers?

 

One or two posters seem to be peddling the idea that earlier in the season we couldn't afford what we are doing now, but having saved "enough" we now can do it, like it was Lowe's plan all along: "We'll get to the end of February and if we are adrift in the bottom two places we'll get rid of JP and play Jason, Rudi, Marek, and get an experienced centre-half, it's that simple. I don't know why these football types make such hard work of it all."

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I know what you mean and I am looking at the likes of Plymouth and Blackpool to be dragged into the last spots rather than Norwich and Nots Forrest.

 

There are still plenty of teams fighting to avoid probably 2 spots. It just looks worse cause we are in them right now. Last day of the season may see 1 or 2 of those releagtion places occupied by 5 or 6 different teams before the final whistle.

 

 

 

I think you are totally wrong about Norwich, they're going down. Gunn was an awful appointment and they've got something like 9 points out of their last 12 games or so.They have a really hard run in and are logical relegation favourites.

I can't see them getting more than 10 more points this season (if that)

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I think you are totally wrong about Norwich, they're going down. Gunn was an awful appointment and they've got something like 9 points out of their last 12 games or so.They have a really hard run in and are logical promotion favourites.

I can't see them getting more than 10 more points this season (if that)

 

Ah you may be right and if you are that still leaves 5 or 6 teams fighting it out to avoid 1 place. there are enough teams on the dowward slope IMO to give us more than a fighting chance as long as we continue on the upward slope.

 

Its still in our hands and I think we can do it.

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Ah you may be right and if you are that still leaves 5 or 6 teams fighting it out to avoid 1 place. there are enough teams on the dowward slope IMO to give us more than a fighting chance as long as we continue on the upward slope.

 

Its still in our hands and I think we can do it.

 

 

and so it will remain as long as Norwich carry on being the crap that they can hardly avoid being and we gain at least as many points as Forest.That leaves us at worst needing to beat them on the last day.

As I see it we need to beat QPR,Blackpool,Derby,Charlton,Palace and Burnley and the rest will take care of itself.Only Blackpool of those is away and it should be well within our scope.

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Its the old head and heart thing. I honestly still think we will be relegated but my heart is desperate for another `great escape'.

 

By the way if we did would this rank up there with some of those unbelievable escapes of old?

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Its the old head and heart thing. I honestly still think we will be relegated but my heart is desperate for another `great escape'.

 

By the way if we did would this rank up there with some of those unbelievable escapes of old?

 

One difference between now and the relegation battles in the top division which could work in our favour is that the standard of the Championship is generally reckoned to be more even than in the Premier League. Put another way, would we have beaten a top four team in the Premiership two weeks running when in the bottom three? This may give an in form, confident side a better chance of picking up points. I'm hoping anyway.

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We are most certainly not out of the mire by any stretch of the imagination.

 

However, there is a togetherness and purpose under Wotte that had been totally lacking for the entire season thus far , and that at least now gives us a fighting chance.

 

My compliments to Wotte on his work so far - Please please keep it going.

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