Topcat Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Was this just an act of serial incompetence by Lowe, Cowan, Jones & Wilde? A future nail in our coffin that they created? If SLH had gone into admin a couple of weeks ago then the risk of the FL still hitting us with a 10 point deduction (rationale SLH and SFC are largely interlinked) would have surely fallen only on this season? Why did they put the Club at risk of a 10 point hit next year in L1? Relegation is bad enough, but relegation AND starting in L1 10 points down could fatally hurt any new SFC2009 entity that emerges from the ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Deadline? 10 points? Administration? What now? First Ive heard about this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Presumably they hoped we could avoid the 10 points deduction and survive in the championship. Doesn't look very likely though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 7 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Deadline? 10 points? Administration? What now? First Ive heard about this! It was raised back in February and early March on this Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 7 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Presumably they hoped we could avoid the 10 points deduction and survive in the championship. Doesn't look very likely though. But they could have still pulled the "SLH only" administration action and we would have had the FL decision due today, a few weeks earlier. Main difference is that the FL would not have been able to add the clause of a deferral to next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Was this just an act of serial incompetence by Lowe, Cowan, Jones & Wilde? A future nail in our coffin that they created? If SLH had gone into admin a couple of weeks ago then the risk of the FL still hitting us with a 10 point deduction (rationale SLH and SFC are largely interlinked) would have surely fallen only on this season? Why did they put the Club at risk of a 10 point hit next year in L1? Relegation is bad enough, but relegation AND starting in L1 10 points down could fatally hurt any new SFC2009 entity that emerges from the ashes. Because Rupert Lowe is a stubborn arrogant arse who couldnt contemplate volunteering for professional disgrace and thought he could stare down Mr. Barclays...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Presumably they hoped we could avoid the 10 points deduction and survive in the championship. Doesn't look very likely though. But the situation regarding the FL rules would have been the same 2 weeks ago, except now we may get penalised next year aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagon 84 Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Was this just an act of serial incompetence by Lowe, Cowan, Jones & Wilde? A future nail in our coffin that they created? If SLH had gone into admin a couple of weeks ago then the risk of the FL still hitting us with a 10 point deduction (rationale SLH and SFC are largely interlinked) would have surely fallen only on this season? Why did they put the Club at risk of a 10 point hit next year in L1? Relegation is bad enough, but relegation AND starting in L1 10 points down could fatally hurt any new SFC2009 entity that emerges from the ashes. It makes no difference, had we finished 11 points clear of relegation this season then the 10 point deduction would be next season as that is now virtually impossible the 10 would be this season. Think about it, if clubs that are mid table & nothing to play for 10 points either way would not effect them so thats why we will get it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Presumably they hoped we could avoid the 10 points deduction and survive in the championship. Doesn't look very likely though. Just the very latest in a long succession of very costly miscalculations.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 But they could have still pulled the "SLH only" administration action and we would have had the FL decision due today, a few weeks earlier. Main difference is that the FL would not have been able to add the clause of a deferral to next season. Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 It makes no difference, had we finished 11 points clear of relegation this season then the 10 point deduction would be next season as that is now virtually impossible the 10 would be this season. Think about it, if clubs that are mid table & nothing to play for 10 points either way would not effect them so thats why we will get it now. It would have only applied to this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 7 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 April, 2009 It makes no difference, had we finished 11 points clear of relegation this season then the 10 point deduction would be next season as that is now virtually impossible the 10 would be this season. Think about it, if clubs that are mid table & nothing to play for 10 points either way would not effect them so thats why we will get it now. Are you saying that the FL do not have a rule that applies the penalty only to this season, if admin happens before a date that is effectively near the end of March? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 The Club is not in admnistration yet, only the PLC, so perhaps the date for the decision on points deduction will be decided by the fate of the Club, which we will not know for a few weeks yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Obviously we'll never know how the mind of Rupert works, but somebody could of course emial Talksport or Jeff Rndall with the same question. Otherwise how baout we make a list of the reasons They thought somebody was going to invest but they didn't They didn't put the PLC into admin, the Bank did They didn't believe the bank said it would happen Somebody else pulled a string and the bank danced They intended to do it on the day of the deadline but the Bank Manager was out to lunch They thought Arsenal would lend them some money Lowe never listens to anyone so he never bothered to respond to the emails from the bank Leon had promised to help The phones had been cut off because they hadn't paid the bill They only work part time so they did it as soon as possible (those are the polite ones I could think of) (any more anyone?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Was this just an act of serial incompetence by Lowe, Cowan, Jones & Wilde? A future nail in our coffin that they created? If SLH had gone into admin a couple of weeks ago then the risk of the FL still hitting us with a 10 point deduction (rationale SLH and SFC are largely interlinked) would have surely fallen only on this season? Why did they put the Club at risk of a 10 point hit next year in L1? Relegation is bad enough, but relegation AND starting in L1 10 points down could fatally hurt any new SFC2009 entity that emerges from the ashes. So let me get this right. At a time when we have safety in our own hands you want to take a hit of 10 penalty points to guarantee relegation. Inspirational! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 7 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 April, 2009 So let me get this right. At a time when we have safety in our own hands you want to take a hit of 10 penalty points to guarantee relegation. Inspirational! We do not have safety in our hands. In the FL rule today that the 10 points deduction will apply to SFC because they are intertwined as a business with SLH (the PLC), then we are almost doomed to relegation. FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 7 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Obviously we'll never know how the mind of Rupert works, but somebody could of course emial Talksport or Jeff Rndall with the same question. Otherwise how baout we make a list of the reasons Lowe never listens to anyone so he never bothered to respond to the emails from the bank They only work part time so they did it as soon as possible Those two seem highly plausible. A CEO distracted from what was going on and their cashflow forecast failed. David Jones has some questions to answer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 To be fair, we haven't been docked any points yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mase Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 We can still stay up this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Obviously we'll never know how the mind of Rupert works, but somebody could of course emial Talksport or Jeff Rndall with the same question. Otherwise how baout we make a list of the reasons They thought somebody was going to invest but they didn't They didn't put the PLC into admin, the Bank did They didn't believe the bank said it would happen Somebody else pulled a string and the bank danced They intended to do it on the day of the deadline but the Bank Manager was out to lunch They thought Arsenal would lend them some money Lowe never listens to anyone so he never bothered to respond to the emails from the bank Leon had promised to help The phones had been cut off because they hadn't paid the bill They only work part time so they did it as soon as possible (those are the polite ones I could think of) (any more anyone?) They were on the verge of signing Skacel and didn't want to scupper the deal after all these years of waiting to get his signature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 So let me get this right. At a time when we have safety in our own hands you want to take a hit of 10 penalty points to guarantee relegation. Inspirational! Financial safety or footballing safety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Those two seem highly plausible. A CEO distracted from what was going on and their cashflow forecast failed. David Jones has some questions to answer as well. I did not realise Rupert Lowe was the only one was involved at St Mary's I would have thought the Finance Director would have been fully involved with Barclays Bank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 they were on the verge of signing skacel and didn't want to scupper the deal after all these years of waiting to get his signature? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 7 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 April, 2009 We can still stay up this season. Almost no chance, if we get the 10 point deduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 (edited) So let me get this right. At a time when we have safety in our own hands you want to take a hit of 10 penalty points to guarantee relegation. Inspirational! Why is it so hard to understand, if we had took admin a week earlier any penalty would have happened THIS season regardless of our league position. By doing it after the deadline Lowe guaranteed that the penalty would take effect next season if we finished in the bottom 3 or this season if we finished above it. It's not rocket science. Basically Lowe has needlessly given us a -10 point penalty for next season - either by spite of through bad management. Edited 7 April, 2009 by aintforever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Basically Lowe has needlessly given us a -10 point penalty for next season - either by spite of through bad management. Eh?? If we stay up and the independent panel rules against us the pts deduction would be applied this season, we would (more than likely be relegated) but no pts deduction next season! If we get relegated and the independent panel rules against us the pts deduction will be applied next season! So we haven't yet needlessly started next season with -10pts!! Also RL thought that the rules could be bent and the 10pts wouldn't apply. And have you thought that at the end of March the banks were saying all was fine. Then the wages went through on the last Friday of the month, after the deadline, breaking our OD by 2.5%. So the bank decided to pull the plug!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Because Rupert Lowe is a stubborn arrogant arse who couldnt contemplate volunteering for professional disgrace and thought he could stare down Mr. Barclays...... If you could incorporate "incompetent" and "Buffoon" in there somewhere that would be perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Eh?? If we stay up and the independent panel rules against us the pts deduction would be applied this season, we would (more than likely be relegated) but no pts deduction next season! If we get relegated and the independent panel rules against us the pts deduction will be applied next season! So we haven't yet needlessly started next season with -10pts!! Also RL thought that the rules could be bent and the 10pts wouldn't apply. And have you thought that at the end of March the banks were saying all was fine. Then the wages went through on the last Friday of the month, after the deadline, breaking our OD by 2.5%. So the bank decided to pull the plug!! But if (as seems likley) we go down we will probably start on -10, whereas if Lowe had took us into admin a week earlier we could possibly have a chance of promotion. Wether Lowe thought the rules could be bent or not is irrelevant, if we had acted within the deadline there would not even be a risk of the -10 next season. As for blaming the banks, you would have thought Lowe would be aware of our overdraft facility and how much was going to go in or out? A simple meeting with Barclays a week before the deadline could have prevented this mess - surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nellie Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Also RL thought that the rules could be bent and the 10pts wouldn't apply. You would hope that with this situation likely for the last few months, then he would have had solicitors analysing what the outcome should be. I would guess he was advised that we had a strong case, so didn't take the -10 point hit. But you can never be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 But if (as seems likley) we go down we will probably start on -10, whereas if Lowe had took us into admin a week earlier we could possibly have a chance of promotion. Wether Lowe thought the rules could be bent or not is irrelevant, if we had acted within the deadline there would not even be a risk of the -10 next season. As for blaming the banks, you would have thought Lowe would be aware of our overdraft facility and how much was going to go in or out? A simple meeting with Barclays a week before the deadline could have prevented this mess - surely? But that's the point, none of us know what has occured with the bank. Maybe the week before they were telling RL that everything was rosy, there was certainly no indication on here from the ITKs to indicate otherwise. What we do know is that Barclay's have had a sudden change of heart and have pulled the plug on us!! What we need/want to know is what prompted the change?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Was this just an act of serial incompetence by Lowe, Cowan, Jones & Wilde? A future nail in our coffin that they created? If SLH had gone into admin a couple of weeks ago then the risk of the FL still hitting us with a 10 point deduction (rationale SLH and SFC are largely interlinked) would have surely fallen only on this season? Why did they put the Club at risk of a 10 point hit next year in L1? Relegation is bad enough, but relegation AND starting in L1 10 points down could fatally hurt any new SFC2009 entity that emerges from the ashes. Why do we start the same threads every day for three months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Why do we start the same threads every day for three months? And why do you come on and moan about every single one of them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Back to the subject in hand. It's ridiculous. We've basically given the other teams a four-game head-start next season, for going into admin 7 days too late.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Back to the subject in hand. It's ridiculous. We've basically given the other teams a four-game head-start next season, for going into admin 7 days too late.. I think you may find that they were talking to a potential investor who as usual was all mouth and no swans.Probably an elaborate skate wind up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Was this just an act of serial incompetence by Lowe, Cowan, Jones & Wilde? A future nail in our coffin that they created? If SLH had gone into admin a couple of weeks ago then the risk of the FL still hitting us with a 10 point deduction (rationale SLH and SFC are largely interlinked) would have surely fallen only on this season? Why did they put the Club at risk of a 10 point hit next year in L1? Relegation is bad enough, but relegation AND starting in L1 10 points down could fatally hurt any new SFC2009 entity that emerges from the ashes. My take on it is this .. Had we been, or likely to have been MORE than ten points above third bottom, then Lowe would have opted for Administration BEFORE the League deadline IF he thought he could get away with what he tried to get away with, then I'm afraid he was seriously deluded, as all he has done is to ENSURE Div 1 Football next season, one way or the other. Another wonderful Businesslike Kock up from Teflon Lowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaintyDave Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=WHI.L#chart2:symbol=whi.l;range=1y;compare=^ftse;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined He's clever, that Rupert, very well respected in the City you know............ Oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 But that's the point, none of us know what has occured with the bank. Maybe the week before they were telling RL that everything was rosy, there was certainly no indication on here from the ITKs to indicate otherwise. What we do know is that Barclay's have had a sudden change of heart and have pulled the plug on us!! What we need/want to know is what prompted the change?? I had heard that Lowe was trying to "buy" the Club, and the Bank did not want to know, and pulled the plug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaintyDave Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Some FACTS April 22 2008, Rupert Lowe becomes Chairman of WH Ireland Group. WHI shares trading 121p. Today, 47p. Since the day he became Chairman the FTSE 100 is down 32% and the Banking Sector in general down 38%. WHI is down more than 60% FACT Southampton Leisure Holdings is now in Administration. Let's not confuse the FACTS about Lowe's financial acumen with the reality just because one or two of Lowe's chums get trotted out in the papers by Lowe to say "he's well-respected in the City" (which City? Portsmouth? Because not the one I work in - London - or grew up in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Some FACTS April 22 2008, Rupert Lowe becomes Chairman of WH Ireland Group. WHI shares trading 121p. Today, 47p. Since the day he became Chairman the FTSE 100 is down 32% and the Banking Sector in general down 38%. WHI is down more than 60% FACT Southampton Leisure Holdings is now in Administration. Let's not confuse the FACTS about Lowe's financial acumen with the reality just because one or two of Lowe's chums get trotted out in the papers by Lowe to say "he's well-respected in the City" (which City? Portsmouth? Because not the one I work in - London - or grew up in). What decisions has Lowe taken that have led to WH Ireland's fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 Some FACTS April 22 2008, Rupert Lowe becomes Chairman of WH Ireland Group. WHI shares trading 121p. Today, 47p. Since the day he became Chairman the FTSE 100 is down 32% and the Banking Sector in general down 38%. WHI is down more than 60% FACT Southampton Leisure Holdings is now in Administration. Let's not confuse the FACTS about Lowe's financial acumen with the reality just because one or two of Lowe's chums get trotted out in the papers by Lowe to say "he's well-respected in the City" (which City? Portsmouth? Because not the one I work in - London - or grew up in). God .... not even I had any idea that the Lowe Factor had devastated the World economy to that extent ......... .... Alistair Darling has got a bigger job on his hands than I thought ...... Mind you, it would be a laugh if WH Ireland Group went into Administration, don't you think ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaintyDave Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 I much preferred the old fashioned "buck stops here" attitude rather than the crying "don't blame me" but since that is the Lowe way, let's just say that when you are doing twice as badly as your competitors, it is safe to say that the net effect of all the decisions made has been bad. As CHAIRMAN of the company, RL is to blame. At SLH, you can harp on all you like about how Lowe was a victim because it was only after MW and LC had their little coup d'etat that the losses came, but a/ that ignores the fact that a lot of those losses were due to events pre-dating his removal. How he can claim there was no debt on the club when he left, when the majority of the debt was taken out to build the stadium during his time, is again a convenient re-write of history. The others are no better and 100% agree with those saying we need a total new start, but RL needs to be honest and not try to rewrite history here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 7 April, 2009 Share Posted 7 April, 2009 I much preferred the old fashioned "buck stops here" attitude rather than the crying "don't blame me" but since that is the Lowe way, let's just say that when you are doing twice as badly as your competitors, it is safe to say that the net effect of all the decisions made has been bad. As CHAIRMAN of the company, RL is to blame. At SLH, you can harp on all you like about how Lowe was a victim because it was only after MW and LC had their little coup d'etat that the losses came, but a/ that ignores the fact that a lot of those losses were due to events pre-dating his removal. How he can claim there was no debt on the club when he left, when the majority of the debt was taken out to build the stadium during his time, is again a convenient re-write of history. The others are no better and 100% agree with those saying we need a total new start, but RL needs to be honest and not try to rewrite history here. The debt on the Stadium was planned but the debt occurred by between 2006 and 2008 was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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