CB Fry

I think a redemption story is allowed. And jees does he go on about it. Reformed drunk, we get it mate.

A huge amount of that was due to the manager we appointed, and the players he had a big role in bringing in like Pelle, Tadic and to a large extent Toby and Mane. It's easy to backfit the narrative. But by the same token: Isn't it funny that the progress from two consecutive seasons of relegation battles to an 11th place finish isn't seen as "improving"? Especially with a manager with huge job security and support from the fans. Didn't Ralph find himself in a situation where things were growing and improving at the beginning of the season? Because that's exactly what happened, so bizarre you're making an argument here.

Not a Saints fan back then, then.

Looks like it. First two inaugurated and then used to promote the concept. Not really arguable that they shouldn't be in it.

What was the name of that Premier League team who finished fourth bottom, then the following season had a dreadful start and right in the relegation mix, from the start. Who was it? Right in the relegation mix they were. Anyway they recruited this guy, with loads of top flight experience, taking teams into the Champions League, competing at the highest level. Loads more experience and success than Pochettino had. Anyway they recruited that guy. But Nemi is correct- it is absolutely absurd to think that a Gao led Southampton would ever recruit such a person and I have no idea why people are even suggesting it could be a possibility. Absurd.

I've voted for him because he will always be my favourite ever footballer, even if he is a twat. I've gone through the same process with Morrissey so I can deal with it.

Gentlemen, the battle for 13th is back ON.

Well of course no one was supposed to predict it but my point is I don't accept the premise that now things have gone bad we have to leapfrog back in time and put everything in the context of Pellegrino and Puel etc etc. No one expected this much drop off because people thought we had a decent manager getting results from an average but not terrible squad. We finished the season 11th, the general opinion was we had strengthened. We have a manager with more job security than pretty much anyone in the league. That is the starting point of this season. But because things have gone wrong the narrative has changed the starting point back to 2017 or 2018 or whatever. It's just a false and delusional starting point, ignoring where the buck stops.

But that story has only become the dominant narrative now we're doing terribly under Ralph. The post summer transfer window feeling was the team was strengthened and the general predictions going into the season was solid mid table. Then we had threads about winning the league in the Autumn. Pretty much no one was saying we were heading into a relegation battle, or that the rot has set in etc etc. At the beginning of this season, Ralph "inherited" a team that finished eleventh. Not Pellegrino's team, not Puel's. His. A team that finished 11th with no major departures (PEH expendable) and some additions of his choosing. It's just absolute garbage that as soon as things go wrong some people just want to leapfrog back in time to blame "the rot" or "the big picture" or other such things to absolve Ralph of any blame. By the same measure I can't remember anyone crediting Pellegrino or Puel when we were top of the league that day. But now, what a surprise, let's lump them back in to absolve Ralph. Utter insanity.

Well, no, unless you are saying we should have stuck with Pellegrino?

I thought we were the fourth best team in the whole country in the calendar year of 2020 and thats not a blip it's a whole year etc etc. What happened to that? How do we explain that magical year where there wasn't any rot but not apparently there is rot again now? This forum has gone through the looking glass. Absolute insanity. Historically the forum cliche was the Alex Ferguson "give him time" routine, as long as the manager can bed in etc success will follow, no chopping and changing give him time to build his vision etc etc etc But with the Ralph cult the reverse is now true.....the longer the manager is here he takes less and less responsibility for the team he puts out. It becomes less down to him. Things go wrong in 2021 so we jump back to the year 2017 and blame that and blame Puel and blame "the bigger picture" and the rot that set in back then.....how on earth does that work? Surely you people can see that this is absolutely mad?

Both things can be true.

Why do you keep pursuing this rather bizarre line of questioning? We are a bottom six side forever now?

I'm struggling to work out what favour Palace can do for us? Palace winning five nil or losing five nil makes no difference to how we'd get on. Maybe just go out and intentionally cripple some Leicester players?

There was that free kick the Oldham team did the other week, all dancing around messing about to put the other team off, then charging forward. They were the attacking team (and it worked, they scored), but it's the same idea.

I see Burnley are two nil up halfway through the first half. So that's a guaranteed win for them, then.

I don't think "Danny Ings probably won't be a Saints player next season" is quite the red-hot ITK exclusive you seem to think it is.

To be honest, once he leaves us, I couldn't give a flying fuck how he gets on.

Absolutely buzzing that Watford and Norwich have been promoted. Those two will really freshen up the division.

Wayne Rooney putting Ralph to shame when it comes to absolutely appalling league form. At least Wayne has got the excuse that he is as thick as pigshit.

Wherever he goes he won't be scoring a boat load of goals. He won't be the main man so limited game time, and apart from last season, he hasn't scored a boat load of goals in any season. He's a good player but when his career is over he will see 2019-20 as his high point.

Also Celtic and Rangers would do very well out of it - big "brands" with international appeal (especially Celtic) and could easily elbow Arsenal out of the way, let alone little West Ham. Mad from Moyes. Mad.

Exactly- there never has been any PL2, its just nonsense. West Ham v Leicester is not PL2, its a Championship tie, as is Saints, Palace, etc etc. PL1 would just be a mechanism to cut the non big six adrift. PL1 would be richest clubs plus a revolving door of fodder like us, West Ham, Leicester etc. PL2 would be a glorified Championship, with a TV deal nowhere near PL1. Just the Saturday 5pm, Sunday 2pm and Monday Night Football 8pm arse end games. Very odd for Moyes to suggest it because WHU ain't going to be top five forever mate.

If Andros Townsend played for us this forum would be saying he is shit with no end product. One goal this season, one goal last season (plenty of appearances). His assist stats no better than Redmond either.

.....and at the start of the thread people were looking at Fulham's fixtures and just seeing win after win after win. Now here we are with Fulham scoring four entire goals in eight matches and four defeats in the last five and some people still look at Fulham's fixtures and see win after win. Next season, God forbid, if it is Southampton Football Club in 18th place, barely scoring and on 27 points five points adrift, let's see how those exact same people respond then. Let's see how many wins they can envisage then. The enthusiasm and belief will be, like sooo infectious won't it??