Saint_John

Would you like to go back to the 26 Sept 2000 for a 1st Team fixture against Blackburn, is that far enough back ? The attendance at Faggott Park that night was 2,731 !!! Even in our darkest days with the dark lord in charge we have never had a gate as low as that.

The Leon and Lawrie Box was open last night (one of 3 or 4 boxes in use) and there were 8-10 in that box. I couldn't see who was there.

The front page of the Pink has an article where Lawrie welcomes Alan to Saints and the final paragraph on page 1 says :- "I know that he wants to live in the area, and that's a good sign....." IMO this sounds like an answer from the job interview question. Question: was Lawrie involved in the selection process ? (that will upset "19 troll" if he was). The Pink on page 4 also says "Season ticket sales are also high, with the latest count at 7,500".

The figure do not support your statement :- (1) In 07/08 the number of ST was 13,500 this dropped to 9,500 when lowe returned (this include 7,000 who purchased before he returned). That is 4,000 or 30% refused to purchase a ST BEFORE any football was played. (2) The 1st match (or 1st 2 matches) of the season is usually a good indicator :- Lowe FC (08/09 ) Brum 18,925 (& Blackpool 15,629). Saints FC (07/08 ) Palace 25,054 (& Stoke 20,300) Saints FC (06/07 ) Coventry 21,088* (& WBA 24,333) (*= midweek game which are always slightly lower). That is 3,000 (18%) down for the 1st game or an average of 5000 (25%) down for the first 2 games of the season BEFORE any real football had been played, and BEFORE most fans had worked out that "lowe=crap football". (3) The Echo the other day stated that gates were about 15,000 when lowe was in charge last season. The final 3 games of the season (when we were almost down because of the 10 points) the gates were :- Charlton 27,228; Palace 23,220; Burnley 23,927 (ave 24,791). If we were playing "crap football", why did the gates rise AFTER he left by something like 9,000 (40%) ?

I have also returned after the evil one has left us. I had fully expected to pay more for my ST because I missed last year, but was able to quote my number from the previous 15+ years and was sold my old seat (almost one out) at the same "renewal" price as every one else. They also gave me a free ticket for the Ajax game. As the Chapel end is "reserved" for something that day I choose a ticket as near as possible to Markus for that game to say "thanks". (sorry to the ST holder that has now lost his seat for that game). rejoice, rejoice, rejoice we are now lowe free (prehaps "john lowe" will leave this messageboard now).

Wotte has handled himself well over the last few weeks, but IMO he is a poor manager during the 90mins of football. Too many poor tactically decisions ; - The diamond system with McG playing as a 3rd forward when we are being overrun in midfield; - Playing a left footer (e.g. Smith) on the right wing and BWP (all right foot) on left wing means they are always cutting back into the oppo midfield. - No organisation at defensive set plays, I still do do know whether we man mark or use zone marking (remember the 1st 30mins at Wolves). The players don't seem to know what they are suppose to do. - No preparation before games as to which oppo players to watch, which to double up on etc, he just lets to players find out for themselves. - His tactics for getting the ball from back to front usually involved a "route-one" hoof, even when the oppo midfield aren't pressing the ball. I could go on for hours about his poor tactics and generally poor reading of a game. He may be a good manager Monday to Friday but for me he makes too many mistakes during games. p.s. For info - For the people who control the Saints Trust site I think it has been hacked by somebody.

Exellent post. You just need to look at the 3 gates after he left Charlton 27,228; Palace 23,220 and Burnley 23,927 whereas when he was here it was down around 15k. (I think Radio Hants or Solent said there was only about 9k in the ground for the Sheff Utd game although the gate that night was listed as 13,257, so that 15k might be on the high side).

There are loads of Managers better than Wotte. IMO he is only just up to sunday morning Parks League standard, the cheap option last season, and we got what we paid for.

I think there is a big difference between us and Luton for example. As I remember Luton did NOT have a good legal case for taking the FL to court (some of their points were for paying agents etc., and the old company that went into Admin was the one that held the "share"). From what I understand Saints would have a very good case in the Law Courts (Share held by company (00053301) that didn't go into Admin etc, promise of an Appeal etc; company 00053301 carries on trading for 8 weeks since 02072250 went into Admin etc.). If Saints (00053301) were to go under because company (02072250) was in Admin i'm with Hypo on this issue and think that company number 00080612 (The Football League) will find themselves in court because of their refusal to grant an appeal.

Anyone bar the dark lord or any of his side-kicks (I assume that removes D from the list).

And there was me thinking they were a Limited Company registered at company house as :- "Football League Limited(The)" - company number 00080612 http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/a53ed5e3514d9856c8dda5c1634db2f5/compdetails and subject to English Law. If they refuse a licence I would be nice to see whether company 00080612 has enough money to escape Admin itself following any legal action that will result.

This has my vote as well. Sue the FL for £20M (or whatever the cost of the deal) and the FL could go into Administration as well (I don't think they have that much money, it's all with the FA and the Prem League). From what has been said on here their legal council will tell them long before it gets anywhere near the courts that they cannot win.

I have no problem with him being on the board. He put his hand in his pocket when the Football Club needed it, unlike that failed businessman from Gloucester who only ever took money out.

I'm not sure he "did all the IT systems". Page24 of this J Brand document mentions them as "EPOS & PC Suppliers only" with somebody else suppliing the software etc. http://www.jbrand.co.uk/_assets/files/SouthamptonFC_case_study.pdf Now remind me who owns J Brand again ? (don't bother because i already know)

The Dark Lord may well have connections in the area. If you go back to the Libel case on Day 1 page 153 it says :- 15 Q. Let me take you then, Mr. Lowe, to 15th June. Do you remember 16 that day? 17 A. Yes. For my sins I used to own a small factory in Nottingham 18 and I was walking around it with Mr. Cowen, and I got a call 19 from Dave to say -- I think he actually said he had been 20 interviewed .... I don't know whether he still has that factory. We all know he has no friends in Southampton but it is possible he may have ONE friend in the Nottingham area. John p.s. IMO his sins were riding into Southampton on that motor bike in 1997 not owning a factory.

There was another loan of £1M taken out in the 2002-2003 season that the dark lord used to buy shares with which we probably still owe about £500k on. That loan can be seen in the 2003 EOY accounts :- (http://www2.hemscott.com/scripts/AFXnewstory.dll/text?EPIC=SOO&SerialNumber=446&NewsType=CDP&Indate=03/09/2003 "Purchase of own shares (1,104,955) " "Bank loans....................1,000,000 " That loan was for 10 years repayable in quarterly installments at 2% over bank rate. Those Share Buybacks were :- (1) 19 to 24 June 2002 http://www2.hemscott.com/scripts/AFXnewstory.dll/text?EPIC=SOO&SerialNumber=2186&NewsType=CDP&Indate=19/06/2002 for shares from Merrill Lynch http://www2.hemscott.com/scripts/AFXnewstory.dll/text?EPIC=SOO&SerialNumber=1680&NewsType=CDP&Indate=24/06/2002 (2) 14 to 17 Oct 2002 http://www2.hemscott.com/scripts/AFXnewstory.dll/text?EPIC=SOO&SerialNumber=1637&NewsType=CDP&Indate=14/10/2002 http://www2.hemscott.com/scripts/AFXnewstory.dll/text?EPIC=SOO&SerialNumber=1142&NewsType=CDP&Indate=17/10/2002

I stay away because of lowe. I have already turned down three free tickets this year (2 from a ST, 1 from the club itself) as a matter of principle. (p.s. I have seen over 750 Saints games including Goodison Park in 1974).

FF, There were various articles in the Echo around the time :- eg. 23 Dec http://archive.dailyecho.co.uk/2005/12/23/97073.html which has "Lowe recommended the scenario to the club's board at a meeting yesterday. The board also discussed Dutchman Mark Wotte and Dennis Wise, who had also been interviewed.... Lowe said: "I believe that we now have a management team that will deliver stability, results and exciting football. "The number and quality of candidates that Clive and I have seen over the last two weeks have been outstanding, with George emerging as our first choice.". The only article I can find from a "fan" was from Alan Ball on the 22 Dec http://archive.dailyecho.co.uk/2005/12/22/97052.html which says "It's a real tall order for a foreign guy to come in and get it right straight away, especially when he is totally new to England. "It's a hard call and I wouldn't recommend it, it wouldn't be my call. "I would go for someone solid, someone who knows exactly what is going on. "The club shouldn't be gambling at this moment in time." The ONLY FANS protest I can remember was a few weeks LATER at the Ipswich game (middle Jan) with the "LOWE OUT" protests. From my memory there were NO PROTESTS against any Manager or Head Coach, it was ALL against lowe. This sounds like a case of the supporters of the dark lord trying to re-write history (again).

I will be there with my original "76 rosette" to show the clueless Double-Dutch clown that is not only "kids" on the march.

I think you are missing an important point about RF Webb. In 2002 when the management buyout occurred (same management for the previous 10 years) they employed 150 people with a turnover of £15M, see :- http://archive.thisishampshire.net/2002/7/16/62978.html Six years later after being purchased by Lowe Holdings (2005 I think) they were talking about making 19 of their 53 employees redundant because of a lost contract. http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6327 The talk of 53 to 34 may well be because of the "downturn", however the important point is the 150 to 53 in the "good years" ! What did they do employ only U18s and send their older staff out on loan to rival companies ?

I agree there was far too much hidden from the fans at that time. However, the libel case notes prepared by Justice Eady says it was Matthew Harding not Arabs :- Paragraph 98. "It is pleaded that by mid-December 1996 the Southampton board were aware of at least four APPROACHES from investors willing to buy or invest in the club. Apart from a consortium led by Sir David Frost and Gavyn Davies, reference is made to the Secure offer itself and to OTHER OFFERS made in October 1996 by an Israeli consortium and by MATTHEW HARDING "shortly before his death"......"

Mary Corbett was by far the best speaker on the show this morning and Julian Clegg left her until the very end of the show and then kept trying to end the call just to have a Traffic report. During the whole program it seemed he was doing a pr job for the dark lord, just repeating the usually rubbish they come out with and between each call he just seemed to talk about Alan Sugar (I think I heard his name 5 times) - SHAME ON YOU JULIAN. Julian, What about the £3M Dividends and the £1.5M Share Buybacks since we moved to the new ground.

You can get to some of the Radleian Society records online :- http://www.radley.org.uk/or/ORs/index.html You can find Lowe and Cowan in the class of 1971. There was a J R Sale in 1977, I don't know if it is "Charles". Is the J.H Marland from 1964, the same Marland who is a friend of rupes ?

The figures for this season games are :- Brum..... (H) 17,000 (A) 1,925 (est *1) Blackpool (H) 15,387 (A) ..242 Ipswich.. (H) 13,885 (A) 1,031 Barnsley. (H) 14,016 (A) ..820 Norwich.. (H) 13,680 (A) ..800 (est *2) Watford.. (H) 15,838 (A) 1,616 Coventry. (H) 13,465 (A) ..761 Bristol.. (H) 13,366 (A) 1,169 Wolves... (H) 14,882 (A) 2,920 Plymouth. (H) 13,647 (A) 1,248 Sheff W.. (H) 14,234 (A) 1,206 Nottm F.. (H) 24,410 (A) 2,170 Reading ..(H) 16,998 (A) 3,144 (est1 = Brum o/s said "almost 2000" and the total was 18,925; .est2 = well known Saints fan estimated Norwich at 800). For me it will be back to the loyal 14k supporters of LOWE FC plus how many Doncaster bring down in their wonderful "steam train" (which has pride of place at SMS).

Um, I wish you had put the full quote from the Echo AGM article Would loved to have been a fly on the wall in the office after the AGM with Rupe's leading on the stupidness of the 81% figure and Jones responding that it was a mere blip!!!!!!! ..... Which shows that the 81% is made up of SIX players who I believe were ALL on high wages (higher than BWP mentioned in the Echo article anyway) and have now left. It would be nice if the Echo had asked their leak to tell us what the percentage was on the 1st July rather that single out a few players here now and exclude six others. Thinking about there were other players who David Jones missed from his list who left on the 30 June as well :- Powell and Vignal (end of contract), plus Safri (sold) I would be very suprised if the percentage on July 1st was greater than 50%, probably less, and the only thing the dark lord MAY have done differently from ANYONE ELSE was sell Safri. LOWE OUT !!