Micky

Exactly, which brings you right back to the beginning again - military discipline. It works.

I still work with the Forces, but I think that the card system has now been dropped. There is little doubt though that so have discipline levels as well. As Stu says, in the old days, discipline could well have included a (well deserved, if the truth be known) bit of a kickin' - but it was in the name of discipline. After some 25 years of actually being in the Armed Forces I can look back and recall all of my 'punishments' and with my hand on my heart say that, yes I deserved them, and yes I actually learned from them. The Forces work in an environent where you need things to happen, and you need them to happen now - not when you feel like it, not when the big picture has been explained to you, and certainly not when the baby has been fed and watered - it has to happen now. Hence their methods and training. The Army (and I suspect the Navy and Air Force) is suffering as a result of HR Laws these days. We need to instil discipline and the ethos to act and not question; and this is best done using 'old school' methods. Trying to train soldiers with one hand tied behind your back by petty beaurocracy is stupid and downright dangerous. Bullying no - good training techniques, yes - they'll save your life.

I agree - you won fair and square, both teams played on the same pitch and both had the same referee to contend with. It was the same for both teams - and you were the better team on the day. The fact that you played with players that you patently cannot afford, and who should not be employed by the club is neither here nor there. The fact that you decided not to pay your TAX, Agents, Other Clubs and even own employee's contrary to the law really is not your problem. It's everybody elses fault - not yours - you are only the club that cheated, but everybody else is to blame because they let you cheat. I've read posts from your fans on many forums admitting that your last cup success was 'bought' with money that you don't have. They say that there is a very 'sweet taste' to cup success - I think, that if your club and your fans, have an ounce of morals, you will taste nothing but bitter pungent shyte. And on your next 'victory' parade when the 1 million people take to the streets applauding and cheering, have a little thought for the 50 odd million that are actually thinking, 'Cheats'. That is what all of the professional players, managers and chairman will be thinking - but perhaps too much of a good sport to actually come out and say it. Good luck to you. Win the cup, by all means - but why not try to win it by fair means.

Without wishing to sound harsh - there are an awful lot of 'ifs' and 'buts' in this thread, and associated with this subject in general. The fact of the matter is that we were given a 10 point penalty, and have failed to deal with it up to now. If truth is to be believed, when AP took the job there was a '5 year plan' in place, it appeared that there was no pressure to gain promotion this term. As the money started to flow, the expectations / aims started to change, and the goalposts appear to have moved, however we have only a slim chance of making it now. The playing field will be levelled next season - I just hope that the nucleus of these players remain at SMS and that the hunger and desire to get into the CCC is still there.

Interesting though - they obvioulsy did sell thier allocation and some, and what happened to the easy Spurs win. Spurs final and finishing ball was hopeless, but you can only beat what is put in front of you. They may get tonked in the final (don't bet on it though) but credit where it's due - they've done ok to get to the final. Who knows, the FA may yet be further embarrassed by the fact that thier showpiece cup competition being won by a team that has cheated it's way through both league and cup, whilst they have stood by and done nothing.

Many years back, there was a guy called Tommy.... memory is hazy though.......

Me too - watched them both, not a lot of room for error it would seem, or you're toast. Reminds me of the PFC takeover thread...!!!

+ 1. Good bloke, mediocre player, decent workrate, one of the lads - would love to go for a beer with him. Hopefully some media mogul will pick him up and employ him for his honesty - he generally says what others are thinking, honest, no nonsence sort of bloke.

Ahhhh right - I understand now - so you'd be one of those 'business strategist' types then eh...????

I think you'll find that it was 'Mr Taxman' taking offence to PFC's reluctance to add to the nations tax collection that started this whole sorry mess. Even PFC wouldn't be so stupid enough to think that they actually qualified for a tax rebate.... would they....????

The only gap that needs filling is the void between his ears, it must be immense. The only thing that worries me is that business' might actually rely upon his 'so called' services - it is bloody scary really when you think about it.

Ummmm you could well be right - took this on the day and we do appear to have filled over half of the stadium by some way.

Is that an official figure - I thought we only had 44K tickets...??

OK, so he has embellished his CV just a little, you know we all do it - all his other crudentials are spot on you know....!

If you are left with nobody but the clowns, unfortunately you have to humour them. From a PFC POV, it is no laughing matter though.

This is critical stuff, absolutely critical.

Very sad story, hopefully no other casualties either FF's or residents. Thoughts are for the colleagues and families of those lost.

That is far to an intelligent post for me, would you care to elaborate and explain...?

Thanks for the warning....!!! That has got to be one of the worst attempts at a (so called) business web site that I have ever seen in my life. A free front end template filled with abysmal spelling, grammar and content, while perporting to represent major players in the football league. The man is a grade a moron. Did anybody read the 'marine' page - basically, 'if you want a boat, we can buy it for you', honestly, wtf...!!! I honestly believe the guy needs help - or are there really (major) companies out there who would visit his site and believe that he could help them. Please, please tell me there is nobody running a company who would even think about it - his site looks like it was thrown togeather by a kid at school during the 30 minute IT lesson. Sh it - I can't believe the cr ap on there...

Exactly - two different wars altogeather - the FI war was wagged between opposing nations armies - few civilian casulaties and the formalities of war were observed. British Paras also paid tribute (in some cases) to how well Argentinian conscripts fought. It was a war played by the rules - which recent wars have not been, hence the current debate.

VW I understand that not all nations will conduct business in line with the GC - however, believe it or not wars actually have rules for a reason. You won't find too many British military commanders who want to incur civcas - it gains nothing, and if anything becomes a burden on already stretched resources. Still unconvinced about the RPG, and even if they saw one they didn't have to engage - especially as there were civilians in the area that were not armed. All they had to do was withdraw, let the ground troops check it out and call for Air Support if they came under fire. This has nothing to do with being liberal minded - I have seen this sh it first hand in the FI, NI, the Gulf and Bosnia and believe me when kids are involved it is just the worst you can imagine. As somebody (GM I think) said earlier - in war sh it happens, and he is right - but this is not a case of accidental civcas as far as I am concerned, and the sh it didn't, in this case, need to happen.

Does this remind you of anybody...??? http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid29318049001?bctid=76091546001 ....anybody at all...??

There are some very strange people in this world.....! http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Strange-News/Dead-Body-Smugglers-Arrested-At-Liverpools-John-Lennon-Airport-Women-Seized-Before-Berlin-Flight/Article/201004115595891?lpos=Strange_News_Carousel_Region_3&lid=ARTICLE_15595891_Dead_Body_Smugglers_Arrested_At_Liverpools_John_Lennon_Airport%3A_Women_Seized_Before_Berlin_Flight whatever posesses them....???

Vicious (Sid)

The point is though TDD that if you don't identify an RPG you don't fire. From the video that I saw there were civies that posed no threat and it was very difficult to substantiate whether any of them were armed. Certainly the guy in the van appeared to being doing nothing more than trying to evacuate a wounded man - yet they fired upon them. Imagine what would have happened if a Brit or US medic suffered the same fate.... oh look, back to the GC again, but you get my point - it would be splashed all over the mainstream news. As ex and serving military people, we know that we are going to get into some sh itpits - but it is not an excuse to let the lead fly and worry about it later - even in war there are rules and responsibilities that we have to observe. Yes they were providing air cover for the ground forces, but those forces were not in the immediate vicinity, and were in no danger. From the video I have seen - this stinks bad.