Rebel
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Last season I thought Puel was the wrong manager with the wrong squad. And in the Summer I thought he had to go as he seemed to be getting a lot less than the sum of its parts out of the squad. And for me the nail in the coffin was the last five games when we had nothing to lose and we still played negative football and failed to score. I thought the 8th place finish and the League Cup final were down to a little bit of luck more than anything else and papered over the cracks - and that the Europa League and FA Cup failures were closer to the reality of where we actually were. But in view of where Leicester are under Puel and the way they are playing - and tore us apart this week - and I think it was probably more of a case of the squad and the players being the problem - and Puel was just doing the best he could with the poor squad he had. The Leicester squad this season is definitely better than the squad we had last season and the squad we have this season is probably no better. So its hard not think Puel could have done more with a better squad. So it seems the real issues are with the strength of our squad and the players themselves. More than a couple of them seem to lack fight and effort - but we have also been lacking strength in key areas of the squad for a while - w need another striker or two, right back, attacking midfielder and another winger. And the blame for that has to lie with Les Reed and the board. In retrospect it looks like we should have stuck with Puel and changed the squad around - sold players like Tadic, Bertrand and Van Dijk and brought a load of new ones in to replace them and added the strength and depth we needed. So for now I think we need to stick with Pellegrino and back him in the January transfer window. Clear a few players of the players that don't want to be here or aren't good enough out and replace them - and that includes selling Van Dijk to the highest bidder and spending the money on strengthening the squad. Changing the manager hasn't worked so we need to see if changing the squad does.
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Out - but Wilson, Watson, Black, Pellegrino and a few others need to follow him. Problem is he is running the club so who is going to sack him - and worst of all he believes his own hype! We need another Cortese to appear from nowhere and turn the club around.
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Tadic is a left winger and Redmond is a right winger - if we are going to play them then we should play them there. Although Redmond seems to prefer shooting than crossing or passing the ball forwards to set someone up which is why I think we play him on the left as an inverted winger. But maybe he would cross the ball more and offer us some width if we did play him on the fight. I'm not sure Boufal is a No. 10 though either - he doesn't really have any end products - he wants to shoot and score goals not pass them ball to set someone else up - and so more often than not he runs in to a dead end. We might as well play him as striker or an inverted winger/wide forward if we are going to play him at all. Gabbiadini is really a second striker - and is probably best used on the left or behind centre forward. Long is best as a wide forward where his lack of finishing doesn't matter so much and his pace and work rate are an asset. Which leaves Austin as a only real centre forward. I'd try playing Austin up front with Gabbiadini on the left, Lemina in the middle and Ward-Prowse on the right in the three behind him - and get Bertrand and Cedric to start crossing the balls in for Austin. You've also got JWPs delivery from the right, Lemina as the extra player in the box who looks like he can actually score from midfield - and Gabbiadini on the left to find the space, make the intelligent runs and play-off Austin. And then you've got Tadic, Redmond and Long who can come on as impact subs to add some pace or trickery if we need to change things. In January I'd look to sell Tadic, Austin, Long and Boufal and bring in some different forwards to change the front line around and freshen it up - it really needs it and is probably well overdue. Bringing Gallagher back from Birmingham is an obvious first step for me. And maybe if we sell Van Dijk to Chelsea in January we should insist on Michy Batshuayi as part of the deal or juts go and sign him. He seems to be out of favour and at 24 he's worth a try. His pace and power is exactly what we are missing up front. Luciano Vietto would give us another option up front - would add some trickery and can play as a wide forward on the left or right and as a second striker as well. And if City want Bertand we should push for Patrick Roberts as part of the deal - another wide forward come winger (and now that Celtic are out of the Champions League he might be more willing to try the Premier League than we was in the summer) who can score goals. I would love us to sign a proper number 10 like Ziyech as well - but I can't see that one happening so maybe we should go from Tom Cairney from Fulham instead. Supposedly the best player in the Championship last season. Now I know its not that easy when it comes to transfers but I would really like to see Reed and Co do something major in the January transfer window. Show some ambition and some intent. Personally I think they need to back MOPE in January rather than sack him.
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A bit of both really. The players don't seem to be giving their all on the pitch - particularly Bertrand. And a lot of them just aren't playing well - Forster, Bertrand, Cedric, VVD, Romeu, Redmond, Tadic, Boufal, Long and Gabbiadini. But the manager has to take a lot of responsibility for the way we are playing. He doesn't really seem to have a game plan - and he's playing a number of players in the wrong positions. Tadic is world class for Serbia because he plays on the left. Redmond is a right winger, nothing more. Boufal is a number 10 or nothing. Gabbiadini is not really a centre forward. Davis is just a central midfielder - not attacking and not defensive. But I think the problems should be laid at the feet of Reed. This season looks like another case of the wrong manager and the wrong squad. We lacks strength in depth, goals, creativity and pace. We are short a striker and winger - and probably an attacking midfielder as well. For the last 2 seasons our recruitment of players hasn't been good enough - and by the looks of it neither has our choice of manager. However Reed needs to back Pellegrino in January to see if we can get the right squad so we can see if he is the right manager. We need to sell a few players and replace them, and then spend some money to bring a few more in to give the squad a boost - it needs it.
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What about the other Catalan clubs that have played in La Liga league like Girona and Tarragona? Where would they go? Not to mention Espanyol (supposedly the Spanish club in Barcelona) and Barcelona B and all the other clubs that have played or play on Segunda B. Personally I'm not sure I want the sectarianism of Celtic and Rangers anywhere near St Marys or the premier league - but if they did join I am sure they would find life a lot harder. But where would that leave the rest of Scottish football? They could always form an Atlantic League with the Irish football clubs I guess? I can see a European Super League happening eventually - but would you have enough really big clubs for an 18 team division - and where would you draw the line? So you have Real, Barca, Bayern, Juve, Inter, AC, PSG, ManUre and then who? Citeh, Marseille, Napoli, Roma, Scousepool, Arse, Spurs, Chelski, Atletico, Benfica, Sporting Lisbon Valencia Porto, Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord?
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I'd pretty much start with the same team as against Palace - just switch Redmond for Gabbi and VVD for Yoshi. Long will cause them problems with his running and aggression. Tadic when he's on form and out wide can rip any full back apart. And hopefully Gabbi will find and use the space they create to score. With Lemina and Romeu in the middle and Davis linking play we should be OK in the midfield. And VVD and Hoedt should cope with Lukaku's pace and power OK. ----------------------FF-------------------- Cedric-----VvD-------Hoedt-----Bertrand ------------Romeu---Lemina-------------- -----Tadic----------Davis--------Gabbi------- ---------------Long------------- And if that doesn't work or we take the lead and want to hold it I'd go 3-4-1-2 ---------------------FF-------------------- ------Yoshida ----VvD-------Hoedt----- Cedric-------Romeu---Lemina------Bertrand --------------------Davis----------------- ---------------Long--------Gabbi----------
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A slight variation on that for me if we are going to play 3 at the back against United and the other big clubs. Might as well play Hoedt on the left of the back three as he is left footed. And with Long and Austin upfront we can play a bit more direct and use the full backs to cross the ball in to the box. It's also more or less the way we played the 3-5-2 under Koeman against the big clubs. ..............................................Forster............................................... .....................Yoshida.................Van Dijk...............Hoedt.................... Cedric...................................................................................Bertrand ..................................Romeu..............Lemina.................................... ..............................................Davis............................................... .............................Long........................ Austin...............................
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4-3-3 for me -------------Forster------------ Cedric--Stephens--Hoedt--Bertrand JWP-------Romeu---------Lemina Long----Austin----Gabbi Our midfield keeps getting overrun so I think we need to play 3 midfielders - a tackler in Romeu, a box-to-box runner in Lemina and a passer in JWP (who when played in the right position on the right of a midfield can be a good player). Upfront we need the physical presence of Austin in the box to give us a focal point - and actually encourage our fullbacks to get forward and cross the ball and our midfield to play the ball forward. The pace, physicality and running of Long will cause any defence problems as we've all seen and also open up the space. And hopefully with Austin holding the ball and laying it off or getting on the end of crosses and Long mixing it up physically it will create some space for the intelligent movement and finishing of Gabbiadini coming in off the left flank. For me Gabbi is just not suited to leading the line so we need to change things around to get the best out of him. And with Lemina making runs in to the box to be the 4th man - and JWP sitting deep to make the play or going wide to cross the ball in we might actually see some goals - or at least some attempts at scoring. And with Hojberg, Redmond and Tadic on the bench we might have some subs who can make and impact if we need it. Anyway that's the theory - now just for the practice!
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I was expecting us to sell Tadic this summer and replace him in the starting 11 with Boufal and in the squad with a younger player like Roberts or Karamoh. I was also expecting us to sell Long and replace him with a younger and better forward - someone who has pace but can also finish - someone like Vietto or Gabriel Barbosa maybe. Although either of these could be seen as a replacement for Rodriguez who I thought was replaced by Gallagher. (By the way I am only naming these players as we have been linked with them in the press - I'm not in the know or a transfer guru) I don't really understand why we let Gallager go on loan to Birmingham City and Redknapp of all people - I would have kept Gallagher over Long - he's just as physical as Long and probably a better finisher although maybe not as fast on the ground and he gives us an alternative player and a different style to lead the line. For me its time to cash in on Van Dijk and spend the money on the first 11. There are a number of players that that need to be moved on to clear space in the squad and room on the wage bill - namely Clasie, Long and Gardos. I'd add Tadic to that list as well but only if we bring in another attacking player. And Pied probably need to be replaced as well - to me he seems to be just another cheap stop gap at right back in the same way Cuco Martin was - slightly better maybe but still not good enough. And Bednarek probably needs to go on loan lower down the League to develop as he seems to be way of the level we need. Last season we had the wrong manager in Puel - but the squad wasn't good enough either. This season I hope we have the right manager in Pellegrino - but at the moment he doesn't have a good enough squad either. I certainly don't think we have two good players in every position as Reed and Co seem to claim. Lemina and Hoedt were certainly steps in the right direction - but we still need to take a few more steps.
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Tadic it seems is better on the left cutting in on his right foot and Redmond is better on the right crossing the ball in on his right foot and taking on players on the outside. And Redmond has the pace we need but he is a winger - not an ACM or No. 10. Similarly Tadic seems lost when he's played as a No.10 - without the space he needs to make things happen which he has on the wing. I am not really sure where Boufal best position is - mostly because he's not really played that much - but of the three he looks the most suited to playing the ACM or No. 10 role. But I think we have proved you can't play both Tadic and Boufal in the same team - neither really track back and lack the pace we need up front. So for me it has to be one these two and Redmond at the moment with either Davis or JWP in the three behind the striker. Long give us an alternative to Redmond as a wide striker - but he lacks the finishing touch to be a main striker.
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Taking a radical view maybe it is time for the club to move on players like Tadic, Long, Clasie, Gardos and give the younger players like Redmond, Stephens, Boufal, JWP, Lemina and PEH the game time to develop - and add more young players like Roberts, Karamoh, Hoedt and Christensen who will also develop with game time and use players like Targett, McQueen, Gallagher, Bednarek, Sims, Flannigan and Slattery as the back up players. You could argue that maybe we do need to move on players like Yoshida, Davis and Pied as well to give younger players the room to develop. Even Bertrand to give Targett and McQueen the room to develop. Now I am not saying I would actually do this - you need balance and experienced quality in the squad - but I don't think its a million miles away from what the club is actually thinking - bringing in or through young players from the academy, developing them, flipping them as someone said by selling them and replacing them with younger players, giving the younger players room to develop, focusing on new younger players with real potential - and repeating the process. In some ways its the 'pathway' they talk about. I probably would move on Tadic, Clasie, Long and Gardos this summer (to give the existing younger players room to develop) and replace them with younger players who will also need the room to develop. So it looks like Lemina will replace Clasie anyway and Bednarek will probably replace Gardos (when he goes out on loan for his final year I expect). And we could be looking to bring in someone like Patrick Roberts to replace Tadic and maybe someone like Yann Karamoh to replace Long. Vietto or Gabriel Barbosa might also fit this model as well - but the slight adaptation that we look for players like Lemina and PEH with real potential that haven't been given the time to develop at a big club. And if Van Dijk goes replacing him with someone like Christensen or Hoedt (or both) would make sense based on this model as well.
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really? Failure to replace Fonte properly in January probably cost just the League Cup Final. Failure to replace Fonte last summer before we sold him and we knew he wanted to go. Starting last season with just JayRod, Long and Austin as our forward options - surely everyone could see we were going to struggle with a lack of goals with those options. Failure to really replace the goals and attacking options of Mane and Pelle last summer. Buying Boufal when he was obviously crocked - when we need a fit and firing ACM. Replacing Chambers and Clyne at right back - over £30 million worth of players sold - with Cedric and Martina/Pied for less then £5 million. Appointing Puel - there is no denying now he was the wrong manager - but then failing to give him the backing he needed with a squad to suit his style of play. All of those things left me feeling a little disappointed. I'm not saying I think they've done a terrible job - after all we've made it to Europe, finished in the top 10 for 4 seasons in a row and made it to a League Cup Final - but we haven't actually won anything and our squad now is probably weaker than the one Pochettino started with if Van Dijk goes. Now I expect some of this - players wanting to leave for example - was simply beyond their control - and other than the board who really knows the realities of Saints financial situation - but there are certainly things they could have done better. I'm not going to be disappointed if they end up selling Van Dijk - but I will be disappointed if they don't replace him properly. Sometimes I just wish we looked a bit more like we were on the front foot with transfers.
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My first thought is that's a bit disappointing if that's true - its yet another window where Reed and Co have let down the manager and supporters. We all agreed that we needed a more physical presence in CDM - and cover for Romeu - and it looks like Lemina will tick that box. But I think most of us felt we needed an ACM that can score goals and a real replacement for Fonte at CB as well. Not too mention a top class replacement for VVD is he goes. The board are running a tight club though and it looks like we are set to make transfer profit again. And the reality is I think that is where our ambition really lies - not in Europe or winning things - but in making a profit. So it seems it will always be a case of 1 in 1 out for the most part - with Stephens stepping up to replacing Fonte (and Bednarek stepping in to replace Stephens as 4th choice). I was expecting Gardos and Clasie to leave this summer - with Bednarek replacing Gardos and Lemina replacing Claise, but if we are bringing in an attacker on Loan maybe Long will be the one to leave. With Clasie staying it gives us 6 central midfielders - which gives you the cover you need if you're going to play 4-3-3. Not sure where that leaves Taylor and Gardos though. Could the attacking player on loan be one of the three 'wide forwards' we have been linked with - Luciano Vietto, Gabriel Barbosa or Patrick Roberts?
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OK so in the spirit of the OP - here goes! So starting with the fact that we have sold VVD to Chelsea for £60M plus Andreas Christensen - here is what we do in 'realistic fantasy' land - and keeping with our supposed buy young players with potential strategy: And then with the £60M sign: DC: Wesley Hoedt from Lazio FW: Patrick Roberts from Man City FW: Yann Karamoh from Caen Play Jack Stephens as a defensive midfielder, sell Clasie and Long and loan out Gardos.
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Get Andreas Christensen in part exchange for Van Dijk and spend some of the money on Wesley Hoedt - 2 centrebacks with first team experience in the Bundesliga and Serie A - right age at 23 and 24. And send Gardos and Bednarek out on loan. And spend the rest of the money on one of William Carhalho, Geoffrey Kondogbia or Gregorz Kryochiawk to partner Romeu in midfield. Easy peasy as you say!
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Its going to be last summer isn't it!? Last summer the transfer window closed and we started the season with some major gaps in the squad. At the start of last season I think we all knew we were going to struggle to score goals and that we lacked any real strength or depth in midfield. Whereas this season - although we might have solved the goal scoring problem upfront with Austin and Gabbi - we still lack strength in depth in midfield but with Fonte gone and Virgil probably going it looks like we are going to have a big hole at the back. Even if Virgil stays and we don't lose anyone else I'd like to see us add a first choice centre back, a physical CDM and a ACM. If Virgil goes a first choice centre back to partner Yoshida or Stephens is a must - and so is a physical CDM to partner or cover Romeu and Hojberg and shield the defence - even more so if we are going to play 4-2-3-1.
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I think we'll see some movement in and out of the squad before the transfer window closes - whether Van Dijjk, Cedric or Bertrand go or not. But I think it will be more a case of one in and one out rather than real additions - and maybe the odd trimming of the squad as well. I fully expect Gardos to go out on loan for his final season - either back to Roumania or the lower end of the Championship - and it looks to me like Bednarek was bought as his replacement. There are rumours that Reading want Long - and I wouldn't be too sad or surprised to see him go either (as long as he takes that bl**dy song with him) and I think we will look to replace him with someone like Karamoh or Roberts. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Tadic go to Inter to replace Perisic if he gets his move to Man Utd - and I have a feeling Boufal was bought as his replacement last summer. Clasie is another one I expect to move on - Lazio are supposedly interested. Maybe we will add the ACM we need having shown interest in Armstrong at Celtic - but I think he will just replace someone in the squad even if its not a direct replacement.
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You can sign 2 but have to release 4 - Who goes?
Rebel replied to Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd's topic in The Saints
Out: Clasie Gardos Long Davis In: Geoffrey Kondogbia for the physicality and mobility we need in central defensive midfield Hakim Ziyech - for the ACM/no 10 role both in their early 20's with the probability they are going to get better and their value go up -
For me its: Forster Cedric Stephens VVD Bertrand Romeu PEH JWP Redmond Gabbi Austin Austin has to lead the line for us - we need him in the box to score goals, convert the crosses, win the headers and hold the ball up. Gabbi is better as a wide or second striker than a centre forward according to all the reports I read on him when we signed him - and he'll use the space created by Austin to nip in and score. Redmond gives us that pace we need on the break and also seems to play better when wide out on the right. I just don't see any end product in Boufal or Tadic at the moment. JWP - for the set pieces - and he has more chance of delivering the killer pass than Davis. PEH - there's no one else - but he needs to step up and live up to the comparison with Busquets the club was so smug about! Stephens - better on the ball than Yoshida - and he's only going to get better the more we play him.
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Unfortunately I think its true that our current midfielders aren't really good enough - or to some extent anyway as its probably the mix that's wrong more than anything. Davis is a jack of all and a master of none in midfield. He's not a holding midfielder and he's not an attacking midfielder. He's really the third midfielder in a midfield 3 - but he's not really a dynamic box-to-box midfielder either. And every time he's played as one of the double pivot we have been overrun. He's great against teams when we ae dominating the ball and keeping possession though. He's also past his best but that is another issue. JWP is pretty similar to Davis but I think potentially he is a lot better - and he could become the dynamic box-to-box midfielder we are missing or another deep lying playmaker. I think Claise and Hojberg were bought as deep lying play makers to sit alongside Romeu and replace Schneiderlin. But I think Clasie has proved he lacks some of the physicality needed in the premier league for that role - although he has the passing and the positional sense. Hojbgerg has the physicality and the passing range needed and I think will come good given games and time. He needs to improve his positioning and awareness though. And both need to work in their stamina. Maybe Hojberg could be a box-to-box midfielder in time. Clasie was bought by Koeman as his favourite - bit like Martina - never really understood why Reed and the black box let him do it. And I am guessing Hojberg was bought as Clasie wasn't living up to expectations - and we thought he would be a real money making prospect. What we lack is an out and out attacking midfielder/No. 10 and a second holding or defensive midfielder to play alongside Romeu or cover for him if he gets injured. You could argue we need a dynamic box-to-box midfielder as well. I don't really count Boufal as midfielder - more a winger - but maybe I'll be proved wrong. I see him more as a long term replacement for Tadic/Mane. Sometimes I daydream we bought Hakim Ziyech or even Ondrej Duda instead. I think Boufal was Puel's buy and an attempt to replicate the player he had at Nice with Ben Arfa. Again I don't know why Reed and the black box let him to it. It depends on what formation you play - 4 3 3 or 4 2 3 1 - but I'd argue we need to strengthen the midfield to give us the option of playing a proper double pivot/2 defensive midfielders or a 3 made up of one holding, one box-to-box and one attacking midfielder. Undoubtedly our best midfield at present is a midfield 3 of Romeu as the holding midfielder, Hojberg as a deep lying playmaker and JWP as box-to-box midfielder - so there is room for improvement and strengthening. Replacing Clasie with Chalobah would have given us a second holding midfielder and more options in midfield. I'd also replace Davis with a dynamic box-to-box midfielder and add a proper attacking midfielder. Anyway what do I know.
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That positional map says it all really - we sat far too deep and had nothing up front. Once Spurs equalised we just sat back and invited them on to us - but had no out ball and nothing upfront to counter attack with. The big question though was that the players or the manager. Neither one is good but I have a feeling it was the managers tactics. A number of players had a bad game as well which really didn't help - Forster and Romeu in particular. Rodriguez gave us nothing but was isolated up front and Boufal is tricky in the ball but lacks anything resembling an end product. And Steven Davis had another one of those games again - Jack of all and master of none - he is just not dynamic enough. He's not physical or defensive enough and he's not attacking or creative enough. Playing him and JWP together means our midfield is just too lightweight. It was also obvious yesterday that we lacked physical presence in midfield - Romeu was off the pace which didn't help but Hojgberg should have started against Spurs physical midfield. But we desperately need another physical or defensive midfielder. I'd have Schneiderlin back in a shot if we could afford him.
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Can't say I'm too sad to see him go - had a bad attitude for most of this season, missed a lot of games through suspension and at times his passing of the ball, positioning and reading of the game and work rate were terrible. When he could be arsed he was at times great though. But he will need replacing - Clasie, Reed, Davis and Ward-Prowse just don't have the physical presence needed for a defensive midfielder which leaves us with just Romeu. Romeu is a better passer of the ball and probably better at reading the game and being in the right position to intercept the ball. The biggest problem is when he goes forward he's not got the pace to get back in to position if they opposition break on us. Also he's not dominant in the air at all. We need at least one other big defensive midfielder to provide cover - or to let us play a double pivot / defensive duo. Personally I think Clasie is surplus to requirements in the midfield - he's just not physical enough or dynamic enough for the premier league and we have Davis, Reed and Ward-Prowse who are all as good if not better. Although I think Reed is probably too small as well. We should cash in on him if we can get our money back or better - plus he's Koeman's man - and add that to the money raised from selling Wanyama and go and buy a beast of a defensive midfielder
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Any 2 from Praet, Ziyech and Silva to replace Tadic and Juanmi Sebastian Haller and/ or Vincent Janssen to replace Pelle Redmond and Townsend to replace Mane Wanyama will be the hardest to replace - Schneiderlin would be perfect, Cork even - but I expect t someone from Europe - Oscar Hiljdemark maybe - or Marco Benassi Simples!
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None of those are a surprise. Juanmi almost gone already - it's a shame it didn't work out Wanyama's not exactly a surprise - we all know he's wants to leave for a big champions league club - he's not exactly given his all this season Mane - again no surprise - pretty much the same as Big Vic - he can be great but he's so inconsistent - we've probably seen the best of him already Pelle - he's no longer first choice, he's got a year left on his contract and he's over 30 - plus he wants to one last chance at a big club in Italy - and we look better going forward when he's not leading the line Tadic - maybe a surprise to some but he had a run in with Koeman earlier in the season which suggested he'd leave this summer - given his contract and age maybe it's a good time to sell him - I expect he'll follow Pelle to Italy for one last big payday I think we will see a few others go as well - maybe Yoshida for first team football somewhere - and maybe Jay Rodriguez back to Burnley As long as we replace them and add some more depth for the Europa League we wil 'March On'
