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I've commented on how he's played when I've seen him play, most recently against France where he was slow, ponderous, positional wise weak (at times) and poor in the air. I wish I could say that moved across the ground like a whippet, was commanding in the air and in the right position all the time, but he wasn't. Sure, when he plays for us the positioning may improve, but I doubt he'll suddenly be able to move quicker or jump higher.

First point noted. Second point, unless you've been asleep you will have noticed that we didn't sell VvD.

Not at all but I'm not a 'we've signed him so he'll be great' person, instead I judge all players on their merits. From what I've seen he'll take a lot of improvement to be better than Stephens and Yoshida on current form. However, he looks a better 3rd pick than Bednarek.

Have you seen Hoedt play? We've had 2 clean sheets in 3 games this season. I'd stick with Stephens and Yoshida based on what I've seen.

I agree with most of this. His positioning wasn't great and he was far from dominant in the air. What worried me most though was his lack of pace. Yes his midfield exposed him, and yes there was a lot of pace in that French team, but you're either slow or your not and he looked slow.

I agree. Play often breaks down when the ball gets to the undroppable Tadic, and to a lesser extent, Redmond. JWP is purportedly a dead ball King but in open play isn't very effective. Boufal has all sorts of ability and will hopefully fulfil his potential, but needs to play to have a chance of that. Beyond that it's hard to see who'll put goals on a plate for our strikers who aren't the sort to create anything for themselves.

It's a big issue. If we give him a squad place at the expense of another cb we've got to be convinced he'll knuckle down and play to his potential. If we're not convinced, for me it's a case of no squad number, sit in the stands and evaluate things in Jan. I remain to be convinced that his staying is a good thing but let's see how things go.

Yep, but the supply to whoever is up front concerns me more. We have nobody to play incisive balls and create proper chances. A proper no 10 would be ideal imo.

That one was clever to be fair.

Meltdown?! Behave. It seemed obvious to me that he'd go and I expressed that view. This is a forum where views are expressed. If he doesn't go let's see how he integrates back into the team and how he plays. If we have a fully committed VVD then the club have done well, until then the juries out.

If he does that's a bonus. Sort of!

Let's assume you're right and bednarek and Gardos don't make the 25. Let's also assume that vvd continuous strop which is a real possibility if he stays. Let's also assume one of the others gets suspended or injured. We're then fecked. And you say I'm talking b0ll0cks.

Let's see what happens today.

What a well considered reply. Feel free to explain why, for example, we're not better placed to get a better deal with arsenal now than before they sat just above the bottom 3 and look utterly sh:te in defence.

Hoedt arguably being better than yoshi and Stephens is not the point. It's about replacements and the squad. We didn't buy Hoedt to have him, Stephens, yoshi, Gardos, Bednarek, VVD (or yet another replacement) in a 25 man squad. That's 6 Cb's on the payroll. Put them and 3 keepers in the squad and we've only got 16 places for fullbacks, midfielders and attackers. Hoedt has come in to replace VVD who will leave today.

Disagree. 1. Supply and demand. 2. If we say that we're open for business we'll never get as good a deal as we could if desperate buyers come to us. 3. If any club wanted him they'll come to us expressing interest. The way you put suggests that clubs only make offers when a player is being actively marketed. That's ridiculous. 4. Certain clubs will have become more desperate as the window opened up. Arsenal will be desperate for reinforcements at the back. Do you not think that they'll be willing to pay more now for a CB than they were before the season? We're putty in their hands and that buyer competition is to out advantage. This is business, not fantasy football.

Holding out for the best deal is not 'caving' in. It's obvious he was/is going (who really wants a player worth £70m+ sat in the stands until the next window? Who replaces a player [Hoedt] but doesn't actually sell the player being replaced!?) All the club have done is hold firm to get the deal that they're happy with.

Yep, his treatment was odd and I'm in the he didn't get a fair crack camp. That said, you've got to pick your team based on your next opponent, not your last game. Plus, the managers and coaches see him and others in training day in day out and are better placed to assess who is most likely to do the best job.

Agreed and ridiculous to effectively say that he was bought by a mate as a favour. He was/is a proper player and was undoubtedly bought believing he could be a decent PL player. Had Koeman stayed I suspect he'd be playing more and personally I think with a run of games he'd be a better CM option than most of our squad. However, It seems that Puel didn't fancy him and neither does MP so off he goes.

Didn't see Tom28 post. I'd let VVD go anyway, and have always that he would with Liverpool the destination. I expected an attacker or a 10 to come in as the sweetener. If Theo was coming and we got someone to play a bit deeper I'd be delighted. However, arsenal losing theo and the ox in the same window seems odd.

Seems that way, but we'll be taking someone's money for him and if they're offering more than anyone else I've got no doubt that we'll take it, and agree not to pursue a tapping up case.

It was believable until the Walcott and Vietto bit.

Because we have a 25 man squad limit. If we want to bring players in, and register them to play, we need to either move people on or have people being paid but who can't play.

So what's this rule about a 6 year contract meaning 2? So is a 4 year really 1? What about 5?

None of us know what's in that contract re moving on and/or any side agreement. There may be nothing but who knows.