Hodgey

Not sure due to yesterday's result we can suddenly say that a draw at home to Watford is a decent result - unless we think that finishing below Watford is fine. The more points the likes of Burnley, Hull, Watford, Bompey, WBA and Sunderland pick up the more chance we have of getting into trouble. That was 2 points lost, as was Sunderland - if we are not going to get shock results at the big 6, then we cannot afford to drop points in those home games. We are now under big pressure at home to Swansea who will be looking at this game as one of the more likely places to take points and will cause us problems. Biggest issue is complete lack of goals currently in this team - one goal we've scored from open play via a keeper howler from 4 games - and not exactly against the best defenses either. I'm not hugely bothered about our defence - although we do look more suseptable to conceding from set pieces, fact is half of the goals conceded are from erroneous or silly penalties.

Verbal Kint views echo mine - this squad in theory is strong - but it does require a manager bringing out the best in them given many are young and inexperienced. I would be supremely confident if RK was still in charge and excited about what we are about to see. With CP it's more fingers crossed - for me we still don't have the players to play his system.

I may be wrong but I don't think there are too many people that upset with our transfers - we've lost players to much bigger clubs (aside from Pelle who we clearly wanted to sell) and replaced them with good, potentially great youngsters (which we have a track record of doing). The original poster talked of patience - and it is patience of the manager /system that is splitting the fan base more. From a manager / coach PoV there are big questions - RK went to Everton - not a clearly bigger club - could we have kept him ?. We've brought a manager into the club who clearly has a different system to the 'Southampton way' which the u23s still seem to be playing. We've merged him with DW - one of the old guard (can see conflict there) and Erik Black - a most unpopular figure for Villa fans who was part of an embarrassing season for a team arguably bigger than us and had some uncomfortably similar situations (brought in a highly regarded French manager, sold there 3 best players and spent the money on potential etc. So whilst I would agree on patience, I'm certainly not In the 'I'm not worried camp'. What I want to see is for us to at least try the old formation - strikes me that with our personnel we could field a strong and exciting team, less so with a diamond. I've also seen some worryingly arrogant chat that we are too good to go down. That should be true given our squad but it is amazingly easy for a club to fall apart - especially if players no longer believe in what they as doing.

It's clear that Puel doesn't know his best midfield or attackers yet - or indeed how to get the best out of them. We also still need to find out if we have fullbacks that fit this formation. Due to injuries and euro to be fair he hasn't really had a chance to find out, and has taken a bit of a gamble in starting with a new system which theoretically should see us improve when we get used to it. All that said serious questions should be asked how a winger supposedly bought in to replace Juanmi has become our number 1 striker. There is simply no excuse for that and smacks a little of arrogance given his performances in this role. I have a suspicion that Puel isn't happy with the squad despite what he is saying, and the players need a win or great performance post the break to nullify clear concerns they have as them losing faith would be hugely problematic (then it becomes a choice of system or manager change). I suspect Romeu and Davis will continue to struggle in this system and it's pretty clear that Puel isn't a fan of JWP or Claise so ironically our midfield still looks thin in this new set up. Arsenal will be interesting - I expect a pretty dull one goal defeat as that back 5 do not look capable of clean sheets presently (despite a stat I read somewhere that we have had the 3rd least ****s on target against). I'm hoping that we actually create some decent chances (not stat based - actually realistic chances) given Arsenal theoretically are exactly the kind of side this formation should work against (congest midfield, quick balls through to pacy Fwds against an average def.

I'd be surprised if anyone thinks this new system has worked better than the old in the first few games. We are definately playing a high stakes game here - due to previous success without relatively quick success fans and more importantly players will turn. I also can't help but think that Puel isn't the sort to back down so something will have to give. Hopefully he'll be proved right - but you'd also hope he has the balls to demand some players in the window other than a free transfer right back to make the formation work. Frankly I'm worried that Reed, Black, Watson and Puel are not on the same page here (nor are the players).

I've got a differing view. Both were excellent last season and should be this - but I don't know if the malaise is due to getting up to speed post the euros or this new formation. Both played looked pretty ****ed off to me and I don't know which it is but fear the latter. Also - whilst I like long as a trier and on his day a great striker - it worries me that we are going into a season with him as clear no 1, he should be back up or desperately working to stay in the team

I think realistically on a like for like basis you could argue we have lost 6 - Stek, Davis, Juanmi, Mane, Wanyama and Pelle (ie those in the 1st team squad last year) - Gaston didn't figure and Juanmi was supposed to replace him. So far we have brought in 2 so we are 4 down. Counter argument is that Austin was Pelle's replacement - so to have a similar 1st team squad as last year we would need 3 more (2 Gks and an Att Mid). The club have basically said they are after these two positions, with maybe a striker and/or RB as well (depending what you read) rather than 2 keepers (you could use Davis as an emergency 3rd) The bigger question for me is not numbers but quality and gaps for this season. I think we are two AttMid short and a right back especially if we are going for the formation Puel has been trying (ie full backs almost as wingers, a creative ball player, and two attmid who can run from deep). I'm also very nervous that we do everything we can to keep Fonte - I think he'll be the biggest miss if he is to leave - we have too much recent form struggling through a season without enough CB cover - and if the cash is no object likes of Everton and Man Utd are sniffing around Fonte, we're going to need something special from our scouts to spot something they haven't.

Back to an excellent previous comment - if the clubs aim is to have 2 quality players in every position - then for my money we are a right, left and centre attacking midfielder short ! (And arguably a Gk, CB and LB). I think the clubs own viewpoint is surely to have at least one quality player and either a decent back up or a flawed kid who they believe will become quality. i guess people's fear is with c 48 games if we don't get in a fair few players we need those back ups and flawed kids to produce when asked or we will have a disappointing season (which for me would be early cup exit and bottom .

I think some of the sarcastic comments are over the top. Great news given our striker situation but let's not pretend he is anything other than an honest hard working but limited striker (who has never scored as many in a prem season as the much fun down Pelle). We're not going to finish in a Euro place if he is our main striker. Great to get him committed but we need much more if we are not to go backwards.

We need to keep Pelle - with the money available to all Prem clubs next year losing anyone proven at this level for less than £15m is pointless - 23 league goals in 2 seasons with a load of assists mean he is proven. We will really struggle to find a replacement without taking a huge risk or spending £25m. Same with Wanyama - rather do a deal with him to stay at the club one more year then get his payday as a free transfer. Of course you can only do this if the players are happy here - and in Pelle's case he is far from guaranteed 1st team. Agree with Austin/j-Rod comment as well - clearly injury prone so we cannot rely on them - got to look at their contribution next season as a bonus not a guarantee.

Really impressive considering we lost our 3 best players - I had us pegged for 12th so been proven wrong. Some great recruitment (Romeu, VVD), some decent (Claise, Martina, Stek), some bad (Juanmi, Cedric) overall good. The most pleasing for me was Koeman showing his tactical accumen when we were in a rut (still playing well - just not scoring) by building up from the back again - a lot has been made of no clean sheets in last 12 but frankly that is because we are playing a more attacking style (and winning !). On that point - was looking at 'top goalscorers' and very pleased we have 3 strikers hitting double figures, but of those 3 some of our seasons story is clear looking at shots on target - Pelle 38%, Long 41% (Mane is 52%) - for context the likes of Deeney, Carrol, Ighalo and Ayew are all in their 50s. Of course hard to say if this is because Koeman is asking players for more speculative shots or they need to work on accuracy (from what I've seen it's a bit of both).

I think someone else mentioned this on another thread, but my biggest concern is that RK seems to be having a crisis of confidence in his own tactics/team. He came out and said that he would change tactics / team / training and then we thumped Arsenal, but since then looks like we have reverted to type. Even with his 4231 system I'm unconvinced he knows his best 11 - right back constantly changes, one def mid constantly changes, he's unconvinced with Tadic on the right, moves Mane all over the shop, is uncomfortable playing Long upfront, doesn't know where to play JWP etc etc. This is now undoubtedly his team so he should absolutely know his best team - or change the system to accommodate the players he has. Still think he is a fantastic manager who is making the mistake of putting round shapes in square holes.

Merry Christmas all from the big smoke - let's hope Gooners return here with nothing !

Thanks DuncanRG - don't disagree we have more but others would so I tried to point out the ones where I feel there is no debate (ie those guys would get into multiple Prem teams as opposed to the bottom 3)

Positive actions: 1) Wanyama. Give clear instructions to sit in front of back 4 and give them protection, and pass it simple, rather than get frustrated and rampage fwd and give the ball away. Tell him if he does this well more teams will want him for the price we want and he'll get his transfer wish in the summer - if not we'll keep him here for another year. 2) Extra training on crossing on the run. The amount of times one of our wingers / full backs hoofs it all the way to the other touchline is unbelievable, this must be affecting Pelle's attitude of bothering to make runs in the box when 9 times out of 10 the ball is miles over his head 3) Get a decent sports psychologist in to stop them giving up when they conceed - if they have been outplaying a team previously and creating chances, logic suggests if they keep doing it then it will work. 4) Get Mane playing just off Pelle 5) Get Townsend in on loan so we actually have a right winger at the club rather than pushing Mane or Tadic out there - they are miles better central / left. 6) Find a midfielder (internal or external) who can help control our pace. This has been the biggest loss of Spiderman - someone who understands when to buy a foul, make a foul, slow down play with a square ball or try moving it forwards quicker etc. None of our midfielders currently seem to have the first clue here - hence the lack of game management and flitting from excellent to terrible in the space of 5 minutes. 7) Never play 3 at the back again, and contemplate 4-4-2 instead. We should be OK this season. It's not like when we went down where aside from Phillips and Crouch Prem teams were not bothered about our players. Wanyama, Tadic, Pelle, Ward-Prowse, Forster, Bertrand, VVD, Mane would have a decent pick of Prem clubs straight away - so if we have 8 Prem players then we should be comfortably mid-table.

I was genuinely happy with the first 15 - thought our attitude was excellent, reminded me a bit of our start against Man U without the goal. Then 2 sloppy goals and everyone knew that was that - players, coaches and fans. Can't comment on 2nd half as I assumed it would be the usual going through motions so didn't bother to watch. That game sadly showed that Toby is a better cb than VVD - he was excellent. We clearly need a game where we score in the first 15m and then try and hold on, I'm very worried about not only the mental fragility (which had been a strength last 2 yrs) but also fitness which seems worse than all other clubs bar Villa. Arsenal isn't a write off but we will need to convert an early chance - even a point will do to stop the rot

Frustrating game. Big positive is Gazza finally showing what others have clearly seen, top stuff. Like most games the margins were very tight, and it does come down to taking chances which we seem to struggle with. I'm more concerned whether the RK way of playing can continue to be progressive - we seem to be losing the race with similar teams who are now fitter and play the pressing game (we all saw this with Liverpool and Leicester). I can't see us improving the base talent of the squad (with our transfer policy and dry youth batch) so we have to improve what we have. It's annoying seeing Poch doing just that at Spurs (and Klopp and Raniere). I'm not giving up on RK but feel for whatever reason we have lost our way recently and need to start finding it again before too long. Not expecting many points in dec given fixtures but am hoping to see more hunger, better attitude, and much more composure.

But that's the point right ? He's not as good as a lot of people for that money but also better than others. So it comes down to whether we think we have better scouting / negotiation / black box than others. My opinion is we don't - henceforth as to my original post we shouldn't sell him, but accept he is vey average.

If ever you wanted proof of lies damn lies and statistics here you go. Long is not as good as those stats comparatively suggest for anyone who watches and knows about football. Here's one for you all - you have 12m to spend, you can have Long or Shaqiri (both sold for same price) - which would you go for ? (Btw I'm not a long hater, in fact love his attitude- just think he is average as per previous post)

It was a panic buy, and a bad one in retrospect. But at the time we had no recognised strikers (Pelle unproven in Prem) so no doubt the board were thinking it was a £12m safety net against relegation - which I don't have a problem with. His £50k a week I do and all things being equal I would be tempted to get rid, however as pointed out come the summer every average PL player is likely to be demanding £50k a week so it's pointless spending another £12m and £50k a week on a potentially worse player (given higher demand). What this does of course do is shine a light as to the difficulty our sell high buy cheaper policy may have in the future - may be a prudent time to change that to sell high / buy high to attract the right standard of player. I've said before that the £36m wasted on Osvaldo/Long/Ramirez + £7.8m a year wages is actually what has cost us in our squad depth issue. Made me laugh when Fonte pointed out that Liverpool had a £20m player on the bench, we've had plenty of £12m players on the bench over the last few years !!

Easy to over react after a big defeat. However I think we are on a downwards trajectory at the moment. I'm worried about our fitness, which has definitely gone backwards, and we are still looking for a replacement for Spider-man and clyne - even Koeman isn't sure about them. Can our new style overcome the press even lesser teams are adopting ? I've no idea but we do need a win against Villa to avoid relegation thoughts

Was worried about being bullied off the ball with that midfield - but in Ron we trust who had faith in those 3 ballplayers not being bullied and keeping possession. Good to see some professional closing game out tactics with short corners, ball in corner and bringing on another centre back as we knew we would have 6 minutes of hoof ball to deal with. Excellent third of season given our slow start and injuries and good to see us play like that without Wanyama - Claise coming along well, ironically it is now in attack where we are struggling for players - worried about Pelle picking up a ban (almost certain), we need Long or JRod to be back firing by then.

This us where Ron can show how good he is - to me this makes zero sense, Sunderlands best attacking threat has been their quick left back so I would assume cedrics pace would be better. Equally big SAM midfielders will be putting it about so a massive test for our 3 small midfielders. All that said there must be a plan (and I don't buy the revert to 3 at the back as who would play right back if not making a sub, and if you are why not just bring maya on?), and I'm hoping we are pushing our quality passing and fitness of those 3 who in that respect are better. Time to show we can cope without big Vic.

Think from a squad POV we are stronger - Juanmi, Romeau and JRod do add depth we didn't have (although JRod on history alone - I'm assuming here that he becomes something like the player he was - as so far he has looked poor). First team is a bit weaker - we really miss the composure of Toby and Schneiderlin when teams put pressure on us, it's been notable this year (wasn't the case the last 2 years) that we seemingly cannot turn around sustained pressure (Man Utd, Leicester, Bournemouth etc) and I think that is a concerning difference. I guess when talking strength of squad it's interesting to note that we could easily have a £50m bench for a game this season (Gazza (£1m), Claise (£8m), Ramires (£12m), Long (£12m), Yoshi (£3m), JRod (£7m), Romeu (£5m)).

I'm a big Pelle fan - but today I saw consistently what a lot of people moan at. The ref from the start wasn't going to give him any fouls, and instead of that driving him to adapt play or look to gain clever fouls knowing the ref he just gave up and became a sulking petulant child. What made it worse after all the whining to teammates was when he had a great chance and air shot then fell on his arse. Great player but needs to mentally change attitude - seeing that it was obvious why he went 4 months without scoring. More effort less attitude pls Mr Pelle.