What an interesting summer we are in for...

A team built largely in League 1 looks likely to scrape survival in the Premier League.

But make no mistakes, some massive re-building is called for, in fact is being screamed for.

We potentially need 3 or 4 defenders, possibly a winger, possibly a striker. And it needs to be quality. And on this occasion I would argue that it needs PL experience, rather than some cheapo foreign rabbit-out-of-the-hat.

I wonder how (and more importantly, when) we will start setting our stall out in the transfer market.

Last summer was a cluster-f*ck, but at least a partial explanation was inherent uncertainty over the managers position. We are now led to believe that NC has his man.

Lets see what happens...

Could somebody hurry up and take the bait and start arguing with him please - otherwise his blood pressure will go through the roof and we'll have to increase his meds. Ta.

How about you address the issue ?

Ok...I'll bite.....

I'm sure the club is already actively looking. I doubt we'll sign anyone anytime soon though. When has any club ever bought all their players for the following season in May/June?

A team built largely in League 1 looks likely to scrape survival in the Premier League.

 

But make no mistakes, some massive re-building is called for, in fact is being screamed for.

 

Last summer was a cluster-f*ck.

- We are a newly promoted team and are 13th with 3 games to go.

- We are 3 points away from 9th and 7 away from the relegation zone.

Calm down Alpine.

Alpine gets earlier & earlier in his pre-season transfer rants

Alpine gets earlier & earlier in his pre-season transfer rants

Well, this summer it seems particularly pertinent.

This squad has worked miracles over the last 3 years. But it needs rejuvenation now. And dodgy young S. Americans with unquestionable talent, but very questionable robustness and endurance, arent the solution.

 

Lets see what happens...

Uh-huh.

A team built largely in League 1 looks likely to scrape survival in the Premier League.

 

But make no mistakes, some massive re-building is called for, in fact is being screamed for.

 

We potentially need 3 or 4 defenders, possibly a winger, possibly a striker. And it needs to be quality. And on this occasion I would argue that it needs PL experience, rather than some cheapo foreign rabbit-out-of-the-hat.

 

I wonder how (and more importantly, when) we will start setting our stall out in the transfer market.

 

Last summer was a cluster-f*ck, but at least a partial explanation was inherent uncertainty over the managers position. We are now led to believe that NC has his man.

 

Lets see what happens...

yo yo alps! I reckon we've got a whole squad brimming with PL experience so i ain't too worried bout that!

We're a central defender short of good prem first team and bout 8 players short of a good prem squad! I'll have a word with NC next time i see him and find out how much dollar we got to spend!

Last summer was indeed a cluster f@ck. after all, we haven't won the league. Disgraceful. We need massive rebuilding, it's being screamed for ... by a lunatic.

Not again Alpine. Every season for at least the last 3, June approaches and you decide we need to replace the entire squad. Every season we have instead brought in 3 or 4 sensible first team purchases; some work out, some don't. Every season so far we have done just fine without panicing and replacing the whole team; despite your demands that we do so before the beginning of July. Let's face it, you've been wrong about this every season in the last 3, what makes you think you'll be right this summer?

Not again Alpine. Every season for at least the last 3, June approaches and you decide we need to replace the entire squad. Every season we have instead brought in 3 or 4 sensible first team purchases; some work out, some don't. Every season so far we have done just fine without panicing and replacing the whole team; despite your demands that we do so before the beginning of July. Let's face it, you've been wrong about this every season in the last 3, what makes you think you'll be right this summer?

I dont think I have. We didnt do enough on our defence last season, I am wondering if the committee are now satisfied by the evidence of their own eyes.

FWIW I think he has point. I think we have been found wanting in many games. Yes neat possession football but no cutting edge. before anyone jumps on it yes i know we beat Pool, Chelsea and City, but we failed (IMHO) misrably to teams who we "should be beating" Especially if consider who we bought.

As per every season I am sure the club will be looking at the current crop of players and looking to see who stays, who goes. we got found not for the first time if a team soaks up the pressure and hits us with pace and power, we are gash. Hence we beat/play extremely well against teams who want to play. Its the PLAN B that we need to cater for. We need a really pacey CB and could also do no worse that place a bid for Lakaku (Spelling) He reminded me of Jones before we sold him. If we are prepared t pay 12mill for Gaston why not offer similar for him? Cant see him playing at Chelsea next year.

Imust admit Alps, you certainly know what your on about in this area, and some may question the impact of such a thread this early on however looking through history it is clear you have an unquestionable awareness of our exact needs and failings that have been fully justified over the years;

09/10 - Our transfer business was an utter shambles, we were so far off te mark that we managed to win the JPT and just miss out on promotion despite the -10

10/11 - well, we didnt learn from our mistakes did we ? Unfortunately a poor season had us only managing promotion to the NPC

11/12 - Just as terrible, despite the set up, the past two years failings we were woefully short again, this season was a train wreck, summed up entirely by a lack of action in the TW found us unfortunately just managing to miss out on winning the league and automatic promotion

12/13 - Another year of abject failure, many of us questioned why a professional outfit would ignore such astute advice from our mountain dwelling footballing veteran however advice again was ignored. An absolute terrible transfer policy saw us pick up such failures as Clyne, J Rod, Boruc & Davis who only conspired to unfortunately keep us in the prem

.... I think your right Alps, history speaks volumes and your pedigree is there for all to see

FWIW I think he has point. I think we have been found wanting in many games. Yes neat possession football but no cutting edge. before anyone jumps on it yes i know we beat Pool, Chelsea and City, but we failed (IMHO) misrably to teams who we "should be beating" Especially if consider who we bought.

 

As per every season I am sure the club will be looking at the current crop of players and looking to see who stays, who goes. we got found not for the first time if a team soaks up the pressure and hits us with pace and power, we are gash. Hence we beat/play extremely well against teams who want to play. Its the PLAN B that we need to cater for. We need a really pacey CB and could also do no worse that place a bid for Lakaku (Spelling) He reminded me of Jones before we sold him. If we are prepared t pay 12mill for Gaston why not offer similar for him? Cant see him playing at Chelsea next year.

Great post. Remind me again how many points we've dropped after taking the lead ? We cant defend for jack-sh*t..

Well, this summer it seems particularly pertinent.

 

This squad has worked miracles over the last 3 years. But it needs rejuvenation now. And dodgy young S. Americans with unquestionable talent, but very questionable robustness and endurance, arent the solution.

I'm encouraged by the fact that you have been wrong with most of your previous pronouncements so expect Ramirez to be player of the year next year.

On the broader and less 'emotional' perspective I'd like to see another proven central defender come in - our stated policy is to develop our own supply through the academy so I would not like to see a 'time-server' keeping our younger players back. We haven't seen Forren yet but he's patently been bought for the longer term...we obviously thought there was potential to work on.

I'd like to see another similar vintage left-back, another creative midfielder and another forward. Again Mayuka is another unknown quantity...I'm not about to judge him or Ramirez on the basis of a first season in a new country, league and club but if he is the answer for the pace then another J-Rod cover would be good.

I think QPR have shown how badly bought 'PL-experienced' players can undermine and under-perform. I think we have the basis of a cohesive and supportive squad of very talented youngsters who will only get better. If we can add quality and cover without disturbing the team-spirit then we look onwards and upwards. The issue with buying with English experience is that 1) we'll be in competition with clubs that are perceived as being bigger and 2) there's just not that many of them. Last summer we managed to get Clyne...that was a real coup for our 'committee'...likewise Rodriguez and I'm sure we'll try for more but there's not necessarily an option to go for the finished article...either by availibility or finance and I'm reasonably happy that we're showing that we can hit a good balance....the future of the club from top to bottom seems as if it's following the path that NC and ML set out three years ago...yes there will be hiccups on the way but with prudent scouting, coaching from the Academy upwards and sensible provision of finance our summer buying looks to be in good hands.

Imust admit Alps, you certainly know what your on about in this area, and some may question the impact of such a thread this early on however looking through history it is clear you have an unquestionable awareness of our exact needs and failings that have been fully justified over the years;

 

09/10 - Our transfer business was an utter shambles, we were so far off te mark that we managed to win the JPT and just miss out on promotion despite the -10

 

10/11 - well, we didnt learn from our mistakes did we ? Unfortunately a poor season had us only managing promotion to the NPC

 

11/12 - Just as terrible, despite the set up, the past two years failings we were woefully short again, this season was a train wreck, summed up entirely by a lack of action in the TW found us unfortunately just managing to miss out on winning the league and automatic promotion

 

12/13 - Another year of abject failure, many of us questioned why a professional outfit would ignore such astute advice from our mountain dwelling footballing veteran however advice again was ignored. An absolute terrible transfer policy saw us pick up such failures as Clyne, J Rod, Boruc & Davis who only conspired to unfortunately keep us in the prem

 

.... I think your right Alps, history speaks volumes and your pedigree is there for all to see

Whatever, troll.

But then you are the person who claims Fox is up to standard, just so you can get a bite.

I dont think I have. We didnt do enough on our defence last season, I am wondering if the committee are now satisfied by the evidence of their own eyes.

Are we currently relegated?

Yes we could have strenghtened the defence more last summer, and yes, I'd hope the transfer committee are focussed on doing so this summer.

Fact of the matter is, we have IMO had an excellent season, with a squad brimming with young talent who are the envy of most of the league. By and large our purchases have paid off; nobody gets it right 100% and for every Mayuka there will be a Steve Davis or Rodrigez.

While I'm sure we all share your concerns over a centre back. I think the tone of your post is completely irrational. The team wasn't 'largely built in league one'; we aren't 'screaming out' for anything particularly; last summer wasn't a 'cluster-f*ck'; you sir are, and continue to be completely wrong.

The only part I agree with you on is 'Lets see what happens...' (oh and I for one hope we bring in a highly rated skillful centreback who is compfortable with ball at his feet and had a touch of pace about him)

A team built largely in League 1 looks likely to scrape survival in the Premier League.

 

But make no mistakes, some massive re-building is called for, in fact is being screamed for.

 

We potentially need 3 or 4 defenders, possibly a winger, possibly a striker. And it needs to be quality. And on this occasion I would argue that it needs PL experience, rather than some cheapo foreign rabbit-out-of-the-hat.

 

I wonder how (and more importantly, when) we will start setting our stall out in the transfer market.

 

Last summer was a cluster-f*ck, but at least a partial explanation was inherent uncertainty over the managers position. We are now led to believe that NC has his man.

 

Lets see what happens...

So you believe we should have a transfer policy akin to that of QPR last season? Buy lots of prem experienced journeymen early; which, of course, also includes paying their over-valued wages.

Personally, I would rather we stuck to buying promising younger players who will improve.

Also, I really don't think we need 3 new defenders. For me it should be:

1 quality CB

1 quality holding MF (to compete with Morgan/Cork or to give the option of using Cork in defence)

1 quality winger

1 promising striker to understudy Rickie

Plus, maybe, a versatile defender/midfield player to cover a number of positions (a modern day Nick Holmes)

Whatever, troll.

 

But then you are the person who claims Fox is up to standard, just so you can get a bite.

If you would like to point me in the direction of the comment where I said Fox is up to standard Id be more then greatful.

And yes, the kettle is indeed black

I'm encouraged by the fact that you have been wrong with most of your previous pronouncements so expect Ramirez to be player of the year next year.

 

Hillarious. Really, you are wasted, you should be in Variety.

Ramirez wont even be here at the end of the summer, imo.

So you believe we should have a transfer policy akin to that of QPR last season? Buy lots of prem experienced journeymen early; which, of course, also includes paying their over-valued wages.

 

Personally, I would rather we stuck to buying promising younger players who will improve.

 

Also, I really don't think we need 3 new defenders. For me it should be:

 

1 quality CB

1 quality holding MF (to compete with Morgan/Cork or to give the option of using Cork in defence)

1 quality winger

1 promising striker to understudy Rickie

Plus, maybe, a versatile defender/midfield player to cover a number of positions (a modern day Nick Holmes)

Where did I say we should buy "Journeymen" ?

And for me, your list doesnt look that different from min, just perhaps a little less black-and-white.

Imust admit Alps, you certainly know what your on about in this area, and some may question the impact of such a thread this early on however looking through history it is clear you have an unquestionable awareness of our exact needs and failings that have been fully justified over the years;

 

09/10 - Our transfer business was an utter shambles, we were so far off te mark that we managed to win the JPT and just miss out on promotion despite the -10

 

10/11 - well, we didnt learn from our mistakes did we ? Unfortunately a poor season had us only managing promotion to the NPC

 

11/12 - Just as terrible, despite the set up, the past two years failings we were woefully short again, this season was a train wreck, summed up entirely by a lack of action in the TW found us unfortunately just managing to miss out on winning the league and automatic promotion

 

12/13 - Another year of abject failure, many of us questioned why a professional outfit would ignore such astute advice from our mountain dwelling footballing veteran however advice again was ignored. An absolute terrible transfer policy saw us pick up such failures as Clyne, J Rod, Boruc & Davis who only conspired to unfortunately keep us in the prem

 

.... I think your right Alps, history speaks volumes and your pedigree is there for all to see

Excellent post!!

Are we currently relegated?

 

Yes we could have strenghtened the defence more last summer, and yes, I'd hope the transfer committee are focussed on doing so this summer.

 

Fact of the matter is, we have IMO had an excellent season, with a squad brimming with young talent who are the envy of most of the league. By and large our purchases have paid off; nobody gets it right 100% and for every Mayuka there will be a Steve Davis or Rodrigez.

 

While I'm sure we all share your concerns over a centre back. I think the tone of your post is completely irrational. The team wasn't 'largely built in league one'; we aren't 'screaming out' for anything particularly; last summer wasn't a 'cluster-f*ck'; you sir are, and continue to be completely wrong.

 

The only part I agree with you on is 'Lets see what happens...' (oh and I for one hope we bring in a highly rated skillful centreback who is compfortable with ball at his feet and had a touch of pace about him)

Yep, everything is wonderful, 'cos we arent currently relegated

(I notice the juidicious use of "currently" - not that confident yet, are you ?)

This season is too close for comfort. We certainly can't go through next season with the same squad.

Who should we sign then Alpster?

This season is too close for comfort. We certainly can't go through next season with the same squad.

We are 3 points from 9th, 7 points from the relegation zone. We will bring in better players in the summer to add to a squad that is already midtable in quality.

I really don't see the need for Alpine's annual summer rant.

Alpine, if last summer someone said Saints as a newly promoted side would be 13th with 3 games to go and closer to 9th than the relegation zone, what would you have said given your rant last summer about the transfers?

Where did I say we should buy "Journeymen" ?

 

And for me, your list doesn't look that different from min, just perhaps a little less black-and-white.

You did not use the word 'journeymen' but you state that you want us to buy 'players with prem experience' - to my mind this is the same thing. Unless you think we can successfully bid for the likes of Vidic, Kompany, etc?

Come on, put names to your '3 or possibly 4 defenders' who would not be journeymen and whom we could realistically sign. (I will wager you do not do this!!)

Oh, and the difference between our lists is that you think we need 3 or 4 defenders; I think we need 1 or 2. By saying 3 or 4 it implies that you are not happy with any of our first choice defenders.

Boruc

Clyne Yoshida Shaw

Lallana Cork, Morgan Punch

J-Rod Lambert

With Davis and Ramirez included makes a decent core to the squad, and all with Premier League experience.:)

Evolution, not revolution

We certainly can't go through next season with the same squad.

I don't know a single fan who thinks that is even vaguely likely.

There is clearly ambition at the club and I absolutely expect us to make some significant signings over the summer, which is why I agree with Joenssu that the only line of the OP I can really agree with is the 'Let's see what happens'. Anything else is pure conjecture at this point.

Yep, everything is wonderful, 'cos we arent currently relegated

 

(I notice the juidicious use of "currently" - not that confident yet, are you ?)

I'll do you a deal Alps;

I will promise to pay a grand to Saints in the Community if we get relegated, provided you promise to pay a grand to them if we stay up. What do you think?

He's we are going to have an interesting summer, stayed up = better chance of signing someone good...

No idea how last year was a cluster f*ck, mildly problematic over NA and his weird love in with slightly average goal keepers, but realistically we have addressed that incident by sacking Adkins...

It'll be a good summer as it'll be Pottechino given some decent backing to bring in who he wants to build and go further, so a new CB, maybe a LB/RB for competition and maybe an attacking midfielder/forward.

We are 3 points from 9th, 7 points from the relegation zone. We will bring in better players in the summer to add to a squad that is already midtable in quality.

 

I really don't see the need for Alpine's annual summer rant.

 

Alpine, if last summer someone said Saints as a newly promoted side would be 13th with 3 games to go and closer to 9th than the relegation zone, what would you have said given your rant last summer about the transfers?

If we can have hindsight about position, can we have hindsight about the number of points dropped ?

I would have looked at the amount of points dropped from taking the lead, and how they were dropped and say we could have been top 8 if we had paid better attention to the defence.

I really dont know why some of you get so uppity about my comments each summer; we persistently pay insufficient attention to the defence.

I dont think I have. We didnt do enough on our defence last season, I am wondering if the committee are now satisfied by the evidence of their own eyes.

My target (and I believe your target if I remember correctly) was survival this year. It looks like we will be achieving that so it appears we did enough for the defence to achieve the target we both wanted.

It'll be a good summer as it'll be Pottechino given some decent backing to bring in who he wants to build and go further, so a new CB, maybe a LB/RB for competition and maybe an attacking midfielder/forward.

Hopefully, but for me thats the bare minimum required.

My target (and I believe your target if I remember correctly) was survival this year. It looks like we will be achieving that so it appears we did enough for the defence to achieve the target we both wanted.

Yes, but its only natural to think "what if".

If we stay up, I am satisifed. But thought needs to turn to how we will stay there, of course.

Yep, everything is wonderful, 'cos we arent currently relegated

 

(I notice the juidicious use of "currently" - not that confident yet, are you ?)

Pretty wonderful to me. I don't look at individual games in isolation. I was hoping for us to survive this year and it looks like we will. Wonderful, objective has been achieved and we can look forward hopefully to some progress next year.

If we can have hindsight about position, can we have hindsight about the number of points dropped ?

 

I would have looked at the amount of points dropped from taking the lead, and how they were dropped and say we could have been top 8 if we had paid better attention to the defence.

 

I really dont know why some of you get so uppity about my comments each summer; we persistently pay insufficient attention to the defence.

Since the beginning of November 2012 Saints have averaged 1.36 points per game from those 25 games. If that was over a 38 game season we'd have 52 points and would be enough for 8th place. The squad has now adapted well to the Premier League after a poor start in the opening 10 games, we'll see improvements in the summer to add to what is already a midtable quality squad. You are trying to make out we are relegation threatened and will be again next season, the squad have shown over the last 25 games that is simply not true. The first 10 games of next season we won't be newly promoted and trying to adjust to the Premier League, that has already happened.

Yes, but its only natural to think "what if".

 

If we stay up, I am satisifed. But thought needs to turn to how we will stay there, of course.

Good. You are satisfied with our season. So if we see a similar strategy for signings this summer that leads to a further progression (say mid table) would you not be satisfied then? You can constantly say what if in football and then you would never be satisfied. What if United had done a bit better and won the champions league this year? The fact is you had a target you wanted for saints for this season and they will probably achieve it. Lets be thankful for that instead of dealing in hypotheticals.

Since the beginning of November 2012 Saints have averaged 1.36 points per game from those 25 games. If that was over a 38 game season we'd have 52 points and would be enough for 8th place. The squad has now adapted well to the Premier League after a poor start in the opening 10 games, we'll see improvements in the summer to add to what is already a midtable quality squad. You are trying to make out we are relegation threatened and will be again next season, the squad have shown over the last 25 games that is simply not true.

I'll conceed that the threat this season is now low (though still present). For me, the risk next season is very high, when you consider our transfer track record and trying to approximately extrapolate some transfer behaviour of other clubs.

Good. You are satisfied with our season. So if we see a similar strategy for signings this summer that leads to a further progression (say mid table) would you not be satisfied then?

Imo, similar trasnfer strategy this summer will lead to relegation. I am sure you can work out my satisfaction level from that result.

I'll conceed that the threat this season is now low (though still present). For me, the risk next season is very high, when you consider our transfer track record and trying to approximately extrapolate some transfer behaviour of other clubs.

But our "track record of transfers" has led to picking up 35 points from the last 25 games. Unlike last season (8 defeats, 1 draw, 1 win, 28 goals conceded) the first 10 games of next season we won't be a newly promoted club trying to adjust to the Premier League, that has already happened. If we continue the form of the last 25 games over the season in 2013/14 we'd have 52 points and would be around 8th (if based on this season's table)!

Imo, similar trasnfer strategy this summer will lead to relegation. I am sure you can work out my satisfaction level from that result.

Why do you think this? The main failings this season were our squad getting used to the premier league, not sorting the goalkeeping situation out quickly enough and our centre back situation. Two of those three have been sorted for next season already and with a few signings in key areas of need (like we did this year) we should be able to do better than we have done this season.

But our track record of transfers has led to picking up 35 points from the last 25 games. Unlike last season (8 defeats, 1 draw, 1 win) the first 10 games of next season we won't be a newly promoted club trying to adjust to the Premier League, that has already happened.

You are totally neglecting the transfer activity of other clubs in your "equation", imo. Why do you think they will stand still ?

Well, its obvious we are not at the level of Swansea/West Brom as yet... Saturday was men against boys. We need at least a CB with pace, Left Back to challenge Shaw, a defensive midfielder to challenge Schneiderlin/Cork, and a pacey wide player (maybe Lopez) if we are to progress the rate Cortese demands.

I'll conceed that the threat this season is now low (though still present). For me, the risk next season is very high, when you consider our transfer track record and trying to approximately extrapolate some transfer behaviour of other clubs.

Do you mean the transfer track record that has brought us Lambert, Fonte, Boruc, Davis, Clyne, Rodrigues etc all of whom have played a large part in most likely keeping us in the division? How is that a poor track record?

You are totally neglecting the transfer activity of other clubs in your "equation", imo. Why do you think they will stand still ?

They will probably improve at the same rate as last year. They improved their squads and we improved ours and our improvement was such that we look likely to stay up. I'm not sure why you think we would do worse with the strategy this summer when two of the reasons for our initial low points total have been removed for next year.

Alpine, how do you determine whether a transfer window has been a success?

Surely there is an intrinsic link between how the team ultimately fare and the squad put in place to achieve that relative position?

With that in mind then, what would you have considered a success and acceptable finish for this season at the outset?

Having considered all objectively if we ultimately finish around the top 10, the only reasonable grounds you would consider the transfer window a "cluster feck" is if you would have expected us after 2 consecutive promotions from league 1 to finish as European contenders???

Tell me I'm wrong Alpine?

...otherwise shut up and take a seat back down on to your stupid chair please.

Bringing in a shedfull of players who we can't afford on dodgy One Month Loans seems to be the way forward.

It got Cheatsmuff out of League One a season quicker than we managed

Imo, similar trasnfer strategy this summer will lead to relegation. I am sure you can work out my satisfaction level from that result.

You are totally neglecting the transfer activity of other clubs in your "equation", imo. Why do you think they will stand still ?

I didn't say they would stand still. But our transfer strategy that you dismiss as poor has led to Saints getting 35 points from the last 25 games. That is top 8 form! So why is it "poor"?

If Saints bring in more players of the quality of Clyne, Ramirez, Rodriguez, Davis and Boruc this summer then I'll be delighted. As should you!

Forren is an unknown quantity, Mayuka and Gazzaniga have looked promising in brief cameos this season and Yoshida has been solid if not spectacular. I wouldn't write any of them off yet and are all still relatively young.