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Pompey Takeover Saga


Fitzhugh Fella

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So if it is adjourned where does that leave us? The value of fatpipes will still not have been decided so even if the trust manage to find a sucker due an uneven break to buy it this case still has to go back to court to have the value decided unless, I assume, they come to some agreement before then.

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What I also found worrying was that Portsmouth's number one sports journalist (sic) had booked a day's holiday on the most important day for "his" football club in living memory....

 

But he tweeted this on Wednesday?

 

Neil Allen ‏@pn_neil_allen

Permission granted to Tweet from the High Court. I’ll be there both days giving updates on case progress. Starts 10.30am tomorrow. #Pompey

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So if it is adjourned where does that leave us? The value of fatpipes will still not have been decided so even if the trust manage to find a sucker due an uneven break to buy it this case still has to go back to court to have the value decided unless, I assume, they come to some agreement before then.

 

That's what I don't quite understand about this 'two pronged' court case....why can't the judge adjudicate on the value of Fatpipe Park today even if the second part of the case is adjourned for 28 days (the second part being whether or not FP can be sold regardless of Chainrai's charge. Surely confirming the value the ground is a mechanical task regardless of the overall outcome? And, if everyone knows what the judge decrees the land to be worth then surely that adds much clarity to the next 28 days of deliberation (if indeed an extension is granted)

 

In summary...I don't get it...

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But he tweeted this on Wednesday?

 

Neil Allen ‏@pn_neil_allen

Permission granted to Tweet from the High Court. I’ll be there both days giving updates on case progress. Starts 10.30am tomorrow. #Pompey

 

Surely you're not suggesting Allen is making things up as he goes along....? ;)

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That's what I don't quite understand about this 'two pronged' court case....why can't the judge adjudicate on the value of Fatpipe Park today even if the second part of the case is adjourned for 28 days (the second part being whether or not FP can be sold regardless of Chainrai's charge. Surely confirming the value the ground is a mechanical task regardless of the overall outcome? And, if everyone knows what the judge decrees the land to be worth then surely that adds much clarity to the next 28 days of deliberation (if indeed an extension is granted)

 

In summary...I don't get it...

 

I suppose the only thing is that he may be inclined to agree different valuations depending on what the area is used for. He might say give a lower value with a commitment to pay more if redeveloped if used for a football club compared to a single larger value if just being sold for development? Or maybe not!

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I'm quite impressed with how Deepdale looks.. I didnt realise it looks like that now.

 

It's not at all bad considering they developed it in situ. The East stand is a bit strange from the outside as it backs up onto the terraced house. ( And unlike my current location, Bloomfield Road, they do actually have 4 proper stands ).

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I suppose the only thing is that he may be inclined to agree different valuations depending on what the area is used for. He might say give a lower value with a commitment to pay more if redeveloped if used for a football club compared to a single larger value if just being sold for development? Or maybe not!

 

All I'm seeing is a chicken and egg situation continuing over the next 28 days if an extension is granted without resolving the FP valuation issue.

 

If the judge says: "It's worth what the Trust claim it's worth" then the Trust know that they can use the 28 days to consolidate their position, whereas if the judge says: "No, it's worth significantly more than the Trust claim" the Trust can use the next 28 days to either throw in the towel (because they know they'll never meet the valuation) or try to raise the extra cash (yes, I know....daft notion).

 

I just can't see what's stopping the judge declaring TODAY what he thinks the value of FP is if a football club called Portsmouth carries on playing there....

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All I'm seeing is a chicken and egg situation continuing over the next 28 days if an extension is granted without resolving the FP valuation issue.

 

If the judge says: "It's worth what the Trust claim it's worth" then the Trust know that they can use the 28 days to consolidate their position, whereas if the judge says: "No, it's worth significantly more than the Trust claim" the Trust can use the next 28 days to either throw in the towel (because they know they'll never meet the valuation) or try to raise the extra cash (yes, I know....daft notion).

 

I just can't see what's stopping the judge declaring TODAY what he thinks the value of FP is if a football club called Portsmouth carries on playing there....

 

But surely if the judge gives his opinion today on the value of the ground then the purpose of the hearing has been attained so there is no point in a 28 day adjournment?

 

They set aside 2 days to hear representation from both sides so he can't (or shouldn't) form an opinion just yet as that representation hasn't happened yet. It will be adjourned, either for 28 days as requested or until they can get a new court date (IMO).

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All I'm seeing is a chicken and egg situation continuing over the next 28 days if an extension is granted without resolving the FP valuation issue.

 

If the judge says: "It's worth what the Trust claim it's worth" then the Trust know that they can use the 28 days to consolidate their position, whereas if the judge says: "No, it's worth significantly more than the Trust claim" the Trust can use the next 28 days to either throw in the towel (because they know they'll never meet the valuation) or try to raise the extra cash (yes, I know....daft notion).

 

I just can't see what's stopping the judge declaring TODAY what he thinks the value of FP is if a football club called Portsmouth carries on playing there....

The judge has already told PKF's counsel that he wants 2days to hear experts on the valuation issue, so it ain't happening this year.

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All I'm seeing is a chicken and egg situation continuing over the next 28 days if an extension is granted without resolving the FP valuation issue.

 

If the judge says: "It's worth what the Trust claim it's worth" then the Trust know that they can use the 28 days to consolidate their position, whereas if the judge says: "No, it's worth significantly more than the Trust claim" the Trust can use the next 28 days to either throw in the towel (because they know they'll never meet the valuation) or try to raise the extra cash (yes, I know....daft notion).

 

I just can't see what's stopping the judge declaring TODAY what he thinks the value of FP is if a football club called Portsmouth carries on playing there....

 

I had thought that in these valuation cases the Judge's arrange a completely independent valuation and use that. if so he has the value and should therefore be able to make a ruling.

 

But knowing the nature of the UK justice system he wont make a decision in case it is overturned on appeal and makes him look stupid, so we are left in limbo once again.

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All I'm seeing is a chicken and egg situation continuing over the next 28 days if an extension is granted without resolving the FP valuation issue.

 

If the judge says: "It's worth what the Trust claim it's worth" then the Trust know that they can use the 28 days to consolidate their position, whereas if the judge says: "No, it's worth significantly more than the Trust claim" the Trust can use the next 28 days to either throw in the towel (because they know they'll never meet the valuation) or try to raise the extra cash (yes, I know....daft notion).

 

I just can't see what's stopping the judge declaring TODAY what he thinks the value of FP is if a football club called Portsmouth carries on playing there....

 

Both sides have expert witnesses which need to be heard before a decision is made. Probably no time for that now.

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Guessing today will either end with an agreed valuation for FP, be it £2.75M or some other figure, PKF saying that the whole deal is currently off or that no agreement has been made despite their best efforts and we'll all come back in 28 days to have th matter heard.

 

My money, what little of it there is, would be on the latter.

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But surely if the judge gives his opinion today on the value of the ground then the purpose of the hearing has been attained so there is no point in a 28 day adjournment?

 

My understanding is (from other posters) that there are two objectives of the hearing....one to determine the value of FP, and one to determine whether or not Chainrai has any right to block the sale (at whatever valuation). Or maybe I'm not quite getting it?

 

Either way, yesterday's request for a 28 day adjournment, from what I can understand, has been requested by PKF because they now have a problem with the Trust's main investor/partner (i.e. Robinson) but I still don't understand what that's got to do with an independent body (i.e. the judge and his independent valuer(s)) adjudicating on the value of FP this last two days.

 

I think someone said yesterday there would be no point the judge setting a value for FP is the Trust's bid was about to collapse but I'm not so sure that I follow that logic. Surely there's no harm in clearing up the valuation side of things now regardless of the eventual outcome?

 

I'm going round in circles now so will park these thoughts for now

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I just can't see what's stopping the judge declaring TODAY what he thinks the value of FP is if a football club called Portsmouth carries on playing there....

 

The Judge isn't being asked to value FP and couldn't even if he wanted to. It's not his job.

 

The present application is, presumably, an application by Administrators' for court approval to the proposed sale of FP and other assets within the Portpin charge to the currently proposed buyer (some combination, probably of PST REL and 'HNW' investors) on the currently proposed terms.

 

The Administrators want court approval as, if given, that will prevent the Adiministators being sued by Portpin for selling their charged assets at less than market price.

 

The reason the Administrators' barrister could not proceed with that application yesterday is that some problem appeared with REL's participation in the proposed deal. That will have prevented the Adminsiartors putting forward their case on the basis of the evdience previously filed with the court. At best, for the Administrators, they may be able to mend their fences with REL or replace them with another investor(s). At worst, it may scupper the proposed sale completely, in which case this court application will fall away.

 

If the Administrators are able to repair their case and continue with the proceedings, the Judge will either grant the Administrators approval to sell the assets on the terms proposed or he will decline to grant that approval or he will adjourn to a later date. He is not going to come up with his own valuation.

 

Interesting times!

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The Administrators want court approval as, if given, that will prevent the Adiministators being sued by Portpin for selling their charged assets at less than market price.

 

But for the judge to do that he would have to have to arrive at a valuation wouldn't he? So, albeit indirectly I suppose, he will be deciding/declaring what the market value is? But I can now see from what you say that its more intertwined than I understood.

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@NabilHassan79: PKF: "Discussions overnight have not resolved issues." PKF pushing for further adjournment for 15 January. #pompey

 

Brilliant!!

 

PDT: "Come on then, we're well up for this".

 

PKF: "Erm, yeah, we're not really. Can we have another 31 days to think about it??"

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The Judge isn't being asked to value FP and couldn't even if he wanted to. It's not his job.

 

The present application is, presumably, an application by Administrators' for court approval to the proposed sale of FP and other assets within the Portpin charge to the currently proposed buyer (some combination, probably of PST REL and 'HNW' investors) on the currently proposed terms.

 

The Administrators want court approval as, if given, that will prevent the Adiministators being sued by Portpin for selling their charged assets at less than market price.

 

The reason the Administrators' barrister could not proceed with that application yesterday is that some problem appeared with REL's participation in the proposed deal. That will have prevented the Adminsiartors putting forward their case on the basis of the evdience previously filed with the court. At best, for the Administrators, they may be able to mend their fences with REL or replace them with another investor(s). At worst, it may scupper the proposed sale completely, in which case this court application will fall away.

 

If the Administrators are able to repair their case and continue with the proceedings, the Judge will either grant the Administrators approval to sell the assets on the terms proposed or he will decline to grant that approval or he will adjourn to a later date. He is not going to come up with his own valuation.

 

Interesting times!

 

I'm told by a journo mate that REL (who were effectively going to bankroll the purchase of Fatpipes Park) have developed colder feet than a shoeless eskimo after learning how few pledges have been converted. REL realise they are potentially in it for far more than they realised, are - at the very least - unlikely to see a profitable return on their investment, and are desperately trying to pull out quicker than an over-excited Avram without protection. That was the reason for yesterday's delay, apparently, so it will be interesting to see how that is dealt with.

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POL goons not best pleased with today's turn of events.

 

Instant media these days does have a habit of making people look stupid! Why the need for the 'bullish' , 'up for the fight' descriptions?

 

pointless ******* 2 days that was. pkf ****ed up big time and pst not much better im afraid.

 

Laughable isn't it, 'PKF and Ian Mcinnes look bang up for it' - bang up for what exactly? Paying PKF £900 an hour for another month?
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