St Matty Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 I may be wrong but I have been told we still owe Aviva (Norwich union) and Barclays the same amount as before the take over? All that has happened is that ML now has the debt and not SLH. The debt would only have been wiped out if we had been liquidated. Also if ML paid £13 or £14 million for the club where did the money go if it did not wipe out the debt? And if we still owe the same amount why are we minus 10 points? Can anyone with a financial background clear this up. Thanks St Matty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 (edited) We where in Administration, the business had failed. As such there where two options. 1) Liquidate the clubs assets, sell them on and break up the failed byusiness with the money from this partly paying off the creditors, ensuring they recoup at least some of their loses. 2) Get someone to buy the lot, satisfying all creditors that it's the best they are going to get ensuring they get some of their money back, if not all. '2' happened. Leibherr bought the freakin' lot, meaning that all debts where satisfied. The ten point deduction however still applies as the club (f*ck all the holding company balls, the company existed as a front to support the club....) was insolvent in the first place. Edited 30 July, 2009 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 The 10 points were for going into administration, not for what may come after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Maybe you should ask the person, that told you we still owe Aviva money, where they got their info from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 '2' happened. Leibherr bought the freakin' lot, meaning that all debts are null and void. Patently not true, just because ML bought the llot does not mean the debts are null and void. ML either paid off all or some of the debts, or he took them over completely. Problem is no-one on these message boards actually knows (some claim they know). The only ones seemingly who would know would be ML, AO, NC, DJ or Fry (together with Barclays and Aviya). None of these seems to want to actually put the record straight (though there was a hint from AO I think that the debts were paid off in full. In the end, while ML is still interested it really doesn't matter, it only becomes a problem if he loses interest and wants to sell on again. I would have guessed that ML paid off the overdraft to Barclays, and took on the mortgage (or part thereof) with Aviya, but others will disagree from the same position of ignorance as me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Im certain i remember hearing an interview with NC or AO and they were asked if SFC were now debt free and the answer was yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Colin has cleared it up nicely. A financial background isn't really that important, reading a newspaper may have helped as there is not that much to understand. The administrators were put in to get the best result for the creditors (the most money). The twelve million quids (or whatever amount) ML paid for the club went nowhere else put paying off these creditors, they took that as the other option was the club going out of business and them getting even less. The money paid would have been divided up among them with them each getting so much in the pound for what they were owed. If we still owed them the same as before the twelve million would have to have been shared amongst the shareholders, so one or two people on this board would have received a few squids. Can we stop this being asked every day or two now? We need to concentrate on fretting over the lack of forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Im certain i remember hearing an interview with NC or AO and they were asked if SFC were now debt free and the answer was yes True Story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 (edited) Patently not true, just because ML bought the llot does not mean the debts are null and void. ML either paid off all or some of the debts, or he took them over completely. Problem is no-one on these message boards actually knows (some claim they know). The only ones seemingly who would know would be ML, AO, NC, DJ or Fry (together with Barclays and Aviya). None of these seems to want to actually put the record straight (though there was a hint from AO I think that the debts were paid off in full. In the end, while ML is still interested it really doesn't matter, it only becomes a problem if he loses interest and wants to sell on again. I would have guessed that ML paid off the overdraft to Barclays, and took on the mortgage (or part thereof) with Aviya, but others will disagree from the same position of ignorance as me. I accept that my phrasing was incorrect, but I have essentially said what you have put there in my preceeding statements, just you feel that we don't know. Considering Nicola Cortese's statement though I think it's safe to assume they are clear, Leibherr is a pro, he would let things like that be said unless they are true. Nonethelss I have altered my post accordingly. Edited 30 July, 2009 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 True Story thank GAWD for that - thought i was going crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 FFS this question again?? On his first day at the club Nicola Cortese was asked if the club was now debt free He said 'Yes' What more do you need P.S. Maybe the mods should put a banner on the top of the site saying we're "Debt Free" so that this question isn't asked 10 times a week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 FFS this question again?? On his first day at the club Nicola Cortese was asked if the club was now debt free He said 'Yes' What more do you need P.S. Maybe the mods should put a banner on the top of the site saying we're "Debt Free" so that this question isn't asked 10 times a week! Mods sticky please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 FFS this question again?? On his first day at the club Nicola Cortese was asked if the club was now debt free He said 'Yes' What more do you need P.S. Maybe the mods should put a banner on the top of the site saying we're "Debt Free" so that this question isn't asked 10 times a week! It seems more like 10 times a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 FFS this question again?? On his first day at the club Nicola Cortese was asked if the club was now debt free He said 'Yes' What more do you need P.S. Maybe the mods should put a banner on the top of the site saying we're "Debt Free" so that this question isn't asked 10 times a week! To be fair, it does still feel too good to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 FFS this question again?? On his first day at the club Nicola Cortese was asked if the club was now debt free He said 'Yes' What more do you need P.S. Maybe the mods should put a banner on the top of the site saying we're "Debt Free" so that this question isn't asked 10 times a week! so is that a 'maybe'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draino76 Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Patently not true, just because ML bought the llot does not mean the debts are null and void. ML either paid off all or some of the debts, or he took them over completely. Problem is no-one on these message boards actually knows (some claim they know). The only ones seemingly who would know would be ML, AO, NC, DJ or Fry (together with Barclays and Aviya). None of these seems to want to actually put the record straight (though there was a hint from AO I think that the debts were paid off in full. In the end, while ML is still interested it really doesn't matter, it only becomes a problem if he loses interest and wants to sell on again. I would have guessed that ML paid off the overdraft to Barclays, and took on the mortgage (or part thereof) with Aviya, but others will disagree from the same position of ignorance as me. OMG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Matty Posted 30 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Maybe you should ask the person, that told you we still owe Aviva money, where they got their info from... Apologies for confusing this - my friend was trying to explain difference between admin and liquidation and thinks we may still owe money but its not definite that we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Can't seem to dig out much more than this which refers to the publication of the interview in the next day's paper (Thursday 9th July 2009). I distinctly recall Cortese confirming that Southampton football Club is debt free and that ML does not use debt to fund business (obviously a paraphrase as I don't have a link to the original interview). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 hopefully Kevin Keegan will clear up all of this confusion when he officially takes charge, on Friday, or within 48 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Matty Posted 30 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Colin has cleared it up nicely. A financial background isn't really that important, reading a newspaper may have helped as there is not that much to understand. The administrators were put in to get the best result for the creditors (the most money). The twelve million quids (or whatever amount) ML paid for the club went nowhere else put paying off these creditors, they took that as the other option was the club going out of business and them getting even less. The money paid would have been divided up among them with them each getting so much in the pound for what they were owed. If we still owed them the same as before the twelve million would have to have been shared amongst the shareholders, so one or two people on this board would have received a few squids. Can we stop this being asked every day or two now? We need to concentrate on fretting over the lack of forwards. Thanks - that clears it up nicely. St matty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Apologies for confusing this - my friend was trying to explain difference between admin and liquidation and thinks we may still owe money but its not definite that we do. Where did he get his info from?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 On his first day at the club Nicola Cortese was asked if the club was now debt free Clutching at a straw or two here but if my 'only' debt was a mortgage I had on my house (i.e. I had no unsecured loans, credit cards, etc) my answer to the question "Are you in debt?" would be "no". Technically, I am in debt to the mortgage company, but because it is a secured loan against something worth more than the mortgage I personally wouldn't class it as a debt. As I say, I'm technically incorrect but with my 'simple human being' hat on I wouldn't see it like that. Who's to say that Cortese wasn't using similar human artistic licence when saying that the club no longer has any debt? Perhaps people are taking his words too literally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 I can't understand all this debate about debt-free or not. As far as we are concerned, what does it matter? What difference does it make? We are indebted to Herr Liebherr but as far as the day-to-day running of the club is concerned, we shall have a budget and access to capital injections as we need them. Let's face it, we are not going to go broke again, are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyd Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Patently not true, just because ML bought the llot does not mean the debts are null and void. ML either paid off all or some of the debts, or he took them over completely. Problem is no-one on these message boards actually knows (some claim they know). The only ones seemingly who would know would be ML, AO, NC, DJ or Fry (together with Barclays and Aviya). None of these seems to want to actually put the record straight (though there was a hint from AO I think that the debts were paid off in full. In the end, while ML is still interested it really doesn't matter, it only becomes a problem if he loses interest and wants to sell on again. I would have guessed that ML paid off the overdraft to Barclays, and took on the mortgage (or part thereof) with Aviya, but others will disagree from the same position of ignorance as me.[/quote Yes it does. Administration is a decleration of insolvency and all debts still belong to SLH (who were paid money by the new club owners0 and is now being wound up. The debts end as we come out of admin just like personal debts end on discharge from bankruptcy. See the Insolvency Act 1986 and check the facts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegaffer Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Can't seem to dig out much more than this which refers to the publication of the interview in the next day's paper (Thursday 9th July 2009). I distinctly recall Cortese confirming that Southampton football Club is debt free and that ML does not use debt to fund business (obviously a paraphrase as I don't have a link to the original interview). It was the Echo interview where NC said we were now debt free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westofshannonsaint Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Who's to say that Cortese wasn't using similar human artistic licence when saying that the club no longer has any debt? Perhaps people are taking his words too literally? I would be very surprised if a successful business person would use "artistic licence" when talking about cold hard cash. I am also supprised that any can consider that owing a bank £30 million (even if it is offset against the stadium) is not a debt - the money was borrowed and should be considered a debt until paid off or written off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 It was the Echo interview where NC said we were now debt free. Verbatim from the Echo interview with nicola cortese 9/7/09. Q. Markus has bought this with his own personal wealth so does that mean the club is completely debt free? A. The club is completely debt free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Matty Posted 30 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 30 July, 2009 Where did he get his info from?! it was a personal view based on his knowledge of the financial laws but as stated elsewhere in this thread we are free of debt which is good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grammy Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 As far as Im aware there are clauses with Aviva that further payments would be made based on promotions which seems fair. Although technically not a debt if we remain in league 1. Dont know the amounts but DP "may" be able to shed some light on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 I may be wrong but I have been told we still owe Aviva (Norwich union) and Barclays the same amount as before the take over? All that has happened is that ML now has the debt and not SLH. The debt would only have been wiped out if we had been liquidated. Also if ML paid £13 or £14 million for the club where did the money go if it did not wipe out the debt? And if we still owe the same amount why are we minus 10 points? Can anyone with a financial background clear this up. Thanks St Matty YES WE ARE STILL DEBT FREE!!! sorry but this is being asked every day. They said when took over the club was now totally free of debts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 July, 2009 Share Posted 30 July, 2009 As far as Im aware there are clauses with Aviva that further payments would be made based on promotions which seems fair. Although technically not a debt if we remain in league 1. Dont know the amounts but DP "may" be able to shed some light on it. I think that would be called a 'potential liability', certainly not a debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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