John B Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Although I dont think we will get relegated we are in the relegation zone and according to the BBC both Wycombe and Tranmere have parted with their managers. So other clubs do not stick with their managers very long despite all good words about stability it is results which count in the end as suggested by some posters. Will be interesting to see how these clubs start playing now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 It was only a matter of time with Barnes at Tranmere - although their poor form wasn't just down to his inability as manager - tranmere lost 6 players from the starting 11 from last season, so of course they were going to struggle. Still didn't get the logic of them parting company with Roonie Moore at end of last season though - they only finished 1 pt. outside the playoffs... Wycombe is an odd one - Taylor did a great job in bringing them up last season, but obviously they were always going to struggle as they weren't able to add to the squad. Maybe taylor knew there was no way to keep them up, and jumped ship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waggy Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=17144 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 9 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2009 http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=17144 I know I started this thread seven minutes before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Did not realise how crap they had been doing as not looked at the table. We basically got 100% more points then them too. So i guess on that basis we are doing alright! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe have all reacted to poor starts - AP has until xmas to prove himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe have all reacted to poor starts - AP has until xmas to prove himself. Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc6mufc3 Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 A new manager (nearly) always improves on results so it's not good for us - at least Paul Hart is still doing a 'job' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Jazzbo Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe have all reacted to poor starts - AP has until xmas to prove himself. None of them had -10 deficit to make up. Based on their performances they probably would have expected to part company by mutual consent (the sack in english). Although I still think Bryan Gunn's sacking was a little premature. If we didn't have the -10 I wouldn't necessarily be happy with our position, but I wouldn't be looking for AP to be sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe have all reacted to poor starts - AP has until xmas to prove himself. What a ridiculous statement. AP has to prove himself every day. Whether he is, is a decision for Nicola Cortese, not some miserable fan who has no idea what expectations/objectives have been set and whether the manager is meeting/exceeding them. We all know football is about results. Thankfully, some football managements also know that it is about building a succesful club to deliver results over many years, not over a fortnight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe have all reacted to poor starts - AP has until xmas to prove himself. You have just won a price for the most moronic post of the week. Congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe have all reacted to poor starts - AP has until xmas to prove himself. Pathetic. None of them had -10 deficit to make up. Based on their performances they probably would have expected to part company by mutual consent (the sack in english). Although I still think Bryan Gunn's sacking was a little premature. If we didn't have the -10 I wouldn't necessarily be happy with our position, but I wouldn't be looking for AP to be sacked. What a ridiculous statement. AP has to prove himself every day. Whether he is, is a decision for Nicola Cortese, not some miserable fan who has no idea what expectations/objectives have been set and whether the manager is meeting/exceeding them. We all know football is about results. Thankfully, some football managements also know that it is about building a succesful club to deliver results over many years, not over a fortnight... You're all right. If we are significantly adrift at Christmas and we continue to accrue points at a rate of one per game then Pardew will be under significant pressure and the prospect of him being sacked is a realistic one, not least because he can hardly say he hasn't been given the resources to do the job better than that. So he does have until Christmas to "prove himself", if you like. But the comparison to Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe "reacting" is spurious - we have "reacted" - we dumped Wotte, and we've let Pardew build an impressive backroom staff, and snap up some of the best talent available at our level. We are "reacting". Pardew is "reacting". We'll win tonight. We're going in the right direction. But the improvement on the first ten games does need to be marked from here on in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDonkey Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 ... But the comparison to Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe "reacting" is spurious - we have "reacted" - we dumped Wotte, and we've let Pardew build an impressive backroom staff, and snap up some of the best talent available at our level. We are "reacting". Pardew is "reacting". ... Couldn't agree more. Pardew, the players and the staff he is bringing in are the reaction to an under performing relegated side. Noone could argue that the team he inherited would do more than struggle in League One. He has no brought in almost an entire new set of players and needs time to model them into a team. If we reach Christmas and are still only scraping by at a point a game yes he will be under pressure, but I don't believe for one second that we will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 9 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2009 You have just won a price for the most moronic post of the week. Congratulations! I have him on ignore so I dont usually see his posts Perhaps you should do the same;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 You have just won a price for the most moronic post of the week. Congratulations! I think OBS is jealous of 19C's ability to provoke a response but has been studying his technique in the background and now thinks he's ready to challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Given that we are not going to be involved in any relegeation struggle for the first time in years, this is not a Saints related post and surely should not be on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj0912 Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 What are the chances of getting Taylor in as DoF? Would be great for youth development, as well as extensive contacts in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 9 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2009 (edited) Given that we are not going to be involved in any relegeation struggle for the first time in years, this is not a Saints related post and surely should not be on here. That may well be true but at the moment I think you will find that we are in the relegation zone Edited 9 October, 2009 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Given that we are not going to be involved in any relegeation struggle for the first time in years, this is not a Saints related post and surely should not be on here. Until we are safely out of the bottom 4, I would disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe have all reacted to poor starts - AP has until xmas to prove himself. Yeah, right. Muppet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Agree with CB Fry 100% Also think it is worth pointing out that say we did win tonight which i hope we do then we would of won 4 of our last 6 games. Only losing one of those games to a complete fluke. We would then of been only a few points from the playoffs if we did not have the minus points problem. I think if that sequence occurs those who still are not happy will probably never be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperm_john Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 if we draw or lose every game till christmas, all these posters calling glasgow a muppet will be on here crying about how something has to change, so by him saying he has till xmas to prove himself, its not such a rash statement, it just looks rash because weve won our last two games and are confident about tonight .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 if we draw or lose every game till christmas, all these posters calling glasgow a muppet will be on here crying about how something has to change, so by him saying he has till xmas to prove himself, its not such a rash statement, it just looks rash because weve won our last two games and are confident about tonight .. I think it's not so much the suggestion that Pardew has to deliver some tangible progress by Christmas (which I have every confidence that he will do) that riled people, it's the positioning of the statement alongside clubs who have sacked their manager therefore implying that Pardew deserves to be in the same category of "under threat" manager. If we didn't have the minus 10 we would currently be about 15th in the league I think and only 6 points off the play-off spot, whilst also moving in the right direction and conitnuing to add good players to the squad. If people had been asked if that was acceptable during the summer, I'm pretty sure that 99% would have said "yes" which is why the conflagration of Pardew's position with that of Barnes etc.. is a complete nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 You're all right. If we are significantly adrift at Christmas and we continue to accrue points at a rate of one per game then Pardew will be under significant pressure and the prospect of him being sacked is a realistic one, not least because he can hardly say he hasn't been given the resources to do the job better than that. So he does have until Christmas to "prove himself", if you like. But the comparison to Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe "reacting" is spurious - we have "reacted" - we dumped Wotte, and we've let Pardew build an impressive backroom staff, and snap up some of the best talent available at our level. We are "reacting". Pardew is "reacting". We'll win tonight. We're going in the right direction. But the improvement on the first ten games does need to be marked from here on in. It depends on your definition of 'proving yourself'. Some would say the only proof is winning every game. If this is the case, managers would be sacked weekly. In Pardew's case, he had/s to prove that he understands why we have won fewer games than any other club in English league football over the past decade and specifically why we were relegated last season. This, on all available evidence, he has proven already surely? In every area where the casual or professional observer has identified a weakness in our team, Pardew has reacted accordingly and moved to address the issue. Our team is better than it was last season, much better. It is better in just about every position on the pitch, using a mixture of players available last season and new players we clearly desperately needed. If we are still losing more often than winning by the end of this month, I will be stunned. But as Roy Hodgson said, there are people today who simply don't accept that sometimes you can play well and still lose. And lose two games, and you've lost it as a manager... it really is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Although I dont think we will get relegated we are in the relegation zone and according to the BBC both Wycombe and Tranmere have parted with their managers. So other clubs do not stick with their managers very long despite all good words about stability it is results which count in the end as suggested by some posters. Will be interesting to see how these clubs start playing now don't see them as rivals - only place looking at us finishing towards the bottom is with few posters on here. BBC football league show was talking about us a play off candidates. Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe have all reacted to poor starts - AP has until xmas to prove himself. very kind of you to give him until Christmas - although I guess even then he won't care whether you think he has performed well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_John Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Although I dont think we will get relegated we are in the relegation zone and according to the BBC both Wycombe and Tranmere have parted with their managers. So other clubs do not stick with their managers very long despite all good words about stability it is results which count in the end as suggested by some posters. Will be interesting to see how these clubs start playing now Perhaps you should have passed these words of wisdom on to your "hero" last season after 8-10 games, he might have got rid of those 2 dutch clowns before they did the damage that AP is trying to correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 move on ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe have all reacted to poor starts - AP has until xmas to prove himself. Prat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Benali Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Taking a rough guess but i assume the op does not like Pardew then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 9 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Taking a rough guess but i assume the op does not like Pardew then? No I am not sure about Pardew yet I agree I but of course I dont think he should be sacked. There was just a lot of talk last weak saying that stability was the most important thing in a Football Club as clubs who keep there managers for the long run seem more successful I am now interested in whether Wycombe and Tranmere will now prosper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 9 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2009 (edited) move on ffs Totally agree but it seems very difficult to discuss various aspects of football without some moron bring up past Chairmen Edited 9 October, 2009 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 No I am not sure about Pardew yet I agree I but of course I dont think he should be sacked. There was just a lot of talk last weak saying that stability was the most important thing in a Football Club as clubs who keep there managers for the long run seem more successful I am now interested in whether Wycombe and Tranmere will now prosper. Sticking with an under-performing manager just for continuity sake is a farce.....just ask Crewe fans! Only 10 teams in all the top 4 divisions have a manager that has been in charge for 4 years or more - surely every team should therefore be struggling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Sticking with an under-performing manager just for continuity sake is a farce.....just ask Crewe fans! Only 10 teams in all the top 4 divisions have a manager that has been in charge for 4 years or more - surely every team should therefore be struggling? Give us the win ratio of those ten teams will you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Benali Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Who are those 10 teams out of interest? I can guess Arsenal - Man Utd - Liverpool - Stoke - Everton - Cardiff - Doncaster - Middlesborough - S****horpe. All of which have done pretty well in recent years. Your saying if you keep a manager long enough eventually you will do well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Sticking with an under-performing manager just for continuity sake is a farce.....just ask Crewe fans! Only 10 teams in all the top 4 divisions have a manager that has been in charge for 4 years or more - surely every team should therefore be struggling? underperforming means not meeting targets set by your employer. AP's targets appear to be sorting club out this year, stabalising and maybe heading for play offs. Promotion next year. I expect Cortesse is happy he is performing to his targets. I expect he doesn't care that that you think he is not doing a good job - although sure both of them would prefer to have won more points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 9 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Who are those 10 teams out of interest? I can guess Arsenal - Man Utd - Liverpool - Stoke - Everton - Cardiff - Doncaster - Middlesborough - S****horpe. All of which have done pretty well in recent years. Your saying if you keep a manager long enough eventually you will do well? Or do they keep him if he is doing well and sack him if he is not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Who are those 10 teams out of interest? I can guess Arsenal - Man Utd - Liverpool - Stoke - Everton - Cardiff - Doncaster - Middlesborough - S****horpe. All of which have done pretty well in recent years. Your saying if you keep a manager long enough eventually you will do well? It seems that some would like to believe that long serving manager = success however this is not necessarily the case. I am not saying AP should go - far from it. All I have said is 10 games in, AP had a return of 9 points. If this return per game ratio continued then we would be relegated and his tenure would be under review. I cant see the board sitting back and accepting that so id expect some action in the NY 'if' our early season form continued. in answer to your question - 10 longest serving managers are..... Alex Ferguson Manchester United Arsène Wenger Arsenal John Coleman Accrington Stanley David Moyes Everton Steve Tilson Southend United John Still Dagenham & Redbridge Rafael Benítez Liverpool Dave Jones Cardiff City Paul Trollope Bristol Rovers Gary Johnson Bristol City Mixture of success and/or done nothing from the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 FYI Top 9 sides in L1 today - only one team (BR) have a manager whose been in the job for more than one year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Benali Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Because all those who have kept a manager longer then a year are above league one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 fyi over last 6 games (commonly used current form - and time when AP has had his team/staff around him) only 7 teams in division have performed better than us (one only by goal diff). the only defeat in those 6 games was to the team with best form only by a 96th minute wonder goal (after 5 mins being indicated not that I am bitter!) Therefore I suggest those were not our rivals, nor is Pardew failing to perform his job. http://www.4thegame.com/statistics/league-one/tables/currentform.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Whose relegation rivals? We are not even past the first quarter yet and based on current form we are hardly candidates to be there at the end of the third quarter when 'relegation rivals' may make more sense. The only disappointment is that both clubs have decided to change their managers as I would have preferred to face these rivals in early December in consecutive home matches under their old managers if only to avoid the bounce affect a new manager can bring to a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 fyi over last 6 games (commonly used current form - and time when AP has had his team/staff around him) only 7 teams in division have performed better than us (one only by goal diff). the only defeat in those 6 games was to the team with best form only by a 96th minute wonder goal (after 5 mins being indicated not that I am bitter!) Therefore I suggest those were not our rivals, nor is Pardew failing to perform his job. http://www.4thegame.com/statistics/league-one/tables/currentform.html Exactly, and the same point I made that these maybe rivals but not relegation rivals as that suggests we will be at the bottom after 35+ games. (Nick apologies I didn't see you post before I posted mine as I would have referred to yours) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 in answer to your question - 10 longest serving managers are..... Alex Ferguson Manchester United Arsène Wenger Arsenal John Coleman Accrington Stanley David Moyes Everton Steve Tilson Southend United John Still Dagenham & Redbridge Rafael Benítez Liverpool Dave Jones Cardiff City Paul Trollope Bristol Rovers Gary Johnson Bristol City Mixture of success and/or done nothing from the above. Actually with the exception of Accrington, who are in dire financial straits, the above list shows that stability does provide some success. All the above apart for Stanley are actually performing pretty well in their own way (had to check the Daggers because I wasn't sure but 3rd in Div 4 is not bad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Norwich, Tranmere and Wycombe have all reacted to poor starts - AP has until xmas to prove himself. And so speaketh the village idiot ! Ps, GS, you are as bad as OBS !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Actually with the exception of Accrington, who are in dire financial straits, the above list shows that stability does provide some success. All the above apart for Stanley are actually performing pretty well in their own way (had to check the Daggers because I wasn't sure but 3rd in Div 4 is not bad) Does it? Maybe it shows that success provides stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 And so speaketh the village idiot ! Ps, GS, you are as bad as OBS !! sticks and stones........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Because all those who have kept a manager longer then a year are above league one? The current leaders in the Prem, Championship, L1 and L2 all have managers with less than 1 years service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Well Glasgow Saint has provoked quite a reaction hasn't he ! - let me put this theoretical question to his many critics on here : Should we find ourselves at or near the bottom of the table on Boxing day would you consider that to be at all acceptable ? I hasten to add that I have hopes that we should do rather better than that given the strength of the squad and the experience of our manager but the possibility is not entirely out of the question . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 The current leaders in the Prem, Championship, L1 and L2 all have managers with less than 1 years service. Er, I reckon if you let me have Lamps, Terry, Drogba, Deco, Cech my local pub side would also top the Premiership... Who is bottom of the Premiership? Championship? League One... You fecking idiot!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Er, I reckon if you let me have Lamps, Terry, Drogba, Deco, Cech my local pub side would also top the Premiership... Who is bottom of the Premiership? Championship? League One... You fecking idiot!!! That's what she said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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