um pahars Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 A false economy or a necessary evil??? Due to holidays, last night was my first league match at SMS this season and it was a pretty soul destroying experience. Sitting amongst 14,000 Saints fans (7,000 down on the comparative fixture last year) certainly brought it home to me how far we have fallen. Having sat in Itchen Block 2 and 3 for the last few years, having to sit in Block 4 last night was just such a soul destroying experience. Of course, the missing 7,000 all around the ground doesn't help, but I couldn't help but think that by shutting the Itchen Notrth Corner (and also the Kingsland North) the atmosphere was massively curtailed. It was almost like watching a reserve match, and even the Northam looked boxed in and not able to spread out in to the adjacent blocks. So has shutting the corners massively curtailed the atmosphere (or is more to do with dwindling attendances)?? Does atmosphere even transalate in to points on the pitch?? Has shutting the corners put people off from coming (i.e. has it ruined their matchday experience) or is that more to do with other reasons?? Or was the saving (was it £150k) worth the sacrifice?? PS Had an e mail from a Tractor Boy who couldn't believe the atmosphere last night and picked up on the fact that the away fans were no longer boxed in between two sets of passionate fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 I don't think if itchen north had stayed open we would have got more points from our games. It probably did ruin some peoples match experience, for which they haven't come back (but definately not the reason we are 7k down). The attendances show it was a worthy decision, can't even fill other areas of the ground. However, i'm not really bothered about attendances as Northam seems pretty much full every game so the atmophere is about the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 A nesessary evil.IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintcrris Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 At the rate we are going they can close half the ground and there will still be empty seats. Don't worry though they will all be back on the last home match especially if its a relegation battle or promotion battle. This new total exciting football does not seem to of caught on yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 I think that closing the Itchen North was a big mistake. It has definately affected the atmosphere and makes SMS less intimidating. Also i know a few fans who were forced to move (they went to the Kingsland),and they now hate the fact they are told to sit down,not shout/swear etc. I doubt closing the Itchen North saved that much anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 18 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 18 September, 2008 Northam seems pretty much full every game so the atmophere is about the same. It might be about the same if you're in the Northam, but in the Itchen the atmosphere was awful (and even the Northam didn't sound up to it's normal level). However, I'm probably in agreement with Saint Lard in that as long as we get shyi7t attendances we have to cut costs and close corners. It might put some off, but I think the missing 7,000 or so is more the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vico Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 False economy. It took about 5 years to build the atmosphere at SMS to something to be proud of. So many away fans I spoke to in the past would comment on how easy it is to get drowned out between the northam and Itchen. In 1 close season that was all destroyed. If only 500 of the missing 6000 stay away from sms this season because of the corners being shut the thats about £150k lost........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 I think that closing the Itchen North was a big mistake. It has definately affected the atmosphere and makes SMS less intimidating. Also i know a few fans who were forced to move (they went to the Kingsland),and they now hate the fact they are told to sit down,not shout/swear etc. I doubt closing the Itchen North saved that much anyway. So if there were still fans in itchen north you are saying teams would be more intimidated which would mean more points for us?? People need to realise that as someone said they could close half the ground to save money and it still wouldn't be full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 I wonder if Corporate Hospitalty is making a profit because the numbers using it get less every game from where i sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 So if there were still fans in itchen north you are saying teams would be more intimidated which would mean more points for us?? People need to realise that as someone said they could close half the ground to save money and it still wouldn't be full. Of course closing the Itchen North wont get us points,but i feel its just something else that has been taken away ,thus making the matchday atmosphere less enjoyable,which has a knock on effect, Less atmosphere, Less fans turning up, Less money spent, Less support for the team, Less money into the club. Add all of the cutbacks together,then sometimes it can be a false economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 Of course closing the Itchen North wont get us points,but i feel its just something else that has been taken away ,thus making the matchday atmosphere less enjoyable,which has a knock on effect, Less atmosphere, Less fans turning up, Less money spent, Less support for the team, Less money into the club. Add all of the cutbacks together,then sometimes it can be a false economy. Quite right! It sends out a message: 'you're not wanted here' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Man Do Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 I think that closing the Itchen North was a big mistake. It has definately affected the atmosphere and makes SMS less intimidating. Also i know a few fans who were forced to move (they went to the Kingsland),and they now hate the fact they are told to sit down,not shout/swear etc. I doubt closing the Itchen North saved that much anyway. Have to say I agree. The atmosphere is crap aside from the northam but I'm really not keen on sitting behind the goals. I have now sat in block 4,5 and in something like 36,37 in the kingsland and its just not the same. The Brum cup game felt like a reserve match to me and there was diddly squat in block 5 for the blackpool game. Its so gutting to attend the game yet come away feeling your support has been muted. I could never understand why so many of our fans seem to like to sit quietly throughout a match. The lack of atmosphere certainly helped make my decision to stay home last night as well as money but I'm sure I will be back next saturday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 I miss my seat in block 37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 I was looking round last night thinking much the same; with hindsight (or as some of us said at the time) they might as well have shut the whole of the Chapel and kept the Itchen/ Northam corner open. There couldn't have been more than 700-800 in there last night and they rarely contribute any 'atmosphere'. If those fans were dispersed into the Kingsland and Itchen we could more than afford to re-open the two corners closed at the Northam end. Which would give us a presence in more than one section of the ground and not let the oppo fans have it all their own way as Ipswich fans did too much last night! As for keeping the family centre open (or whatever it is in that's the Chapel/Kingsland corner) what a joke. Some might say 'it's midweek' but you could count the individual people in there last night. Surely we would have saved more real money (on police / stewards / operators / catering) if we had just completely shut the top quarter of the ground (the whole Chapel and the two corners that end) and concentrated the fans into the remaining three quarters of the stadium (where lots of people wanted to go anyway!) DUH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Shot Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 I could weep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffo Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 Get Itchen North back now! Please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 I was sort of hoping that this was a thread about how easily the opposition were getting into the corners to deliver killer crosses, or how we could stop conceding corners. Even how we could improve our own deliveries from corners. Nope. We want to talk about plastic seats that we can't get too. Oh well. To be honest, it is not something that has really occured to me as a big issue but maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 I was sort of hoping that this was a thread about how easily the opposition were getting into the corners to deliver killer crosses, or how we could stop conceding corners. Even how we could improve our own deliveries from corners. Nope. We want to talk about plastic seats that we can't get too. Oh well. To be honest, it is not something that has really occured to me as a big issue but maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick. I think that's part of the problem. The management didn't thinkit would be a big issue either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 I was looking round last night thinking much the same; with hindsight (or as some of us said at the time) they might as well have shut the whole of the Chapel and kept the Itchen/ Northam corner open. There couldn't have been more than 700-800 in there last night and they rarely contribute any 'atmosphere'. If those fans were dispersed into the Kingsland and Itchen we could more than afford to re-open the two corners closed at the Northam end. Which would give us a presence in more than one section of the ground and not let the oppo fans have it all their own way as Ipswich fans did too much last night! As for keeping the family centre open (or whatever it is in that's the Chapel/Kingsland corner) what a joke. Some might say 'it's midweek' but you could count the individual people in there last night. Surely we would have saved more real money (on police / stewards / operators / catering) if we had just completely shut the top quarter of the ground (the whole Chapel and the two corners that end) and concentrated the fans into the remaining three quarters of the stadium (where lots of people wanted to go anyway!) DUH! agree fully with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint.tom.clancy Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 It is a pretty poor atmosphere without the itchen. But if we start playing well and the attendaces start to rise, hopefully they'll think about re-opening at least the itchen north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 18 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 18 September, 2008 I was looking round last night thinking much the same; with hindsight (or as some of us said at the time) they might as well have shut the whole of the Chapel and kept the Itchen/ Northam corner open. There couldn't have been more than 700-800 in there last night and they rarely contribute any 'atmosphere'. If those fans were dispersed into the Kingsland and Itchen we could more than afford to re-open the two corners closed at the Northam end. Which would give us a presence in more than one section of the ground and not let the oppo fans have it all their own way as Ipswich fans did too much last night! As for keeping the family centre open (or whatever it is in that's the Chapel/Kingsland corner) what a joke. Some might say 'it's midweek' but you could count the individual people in there last night. Surely we would have saved more real money (on police / stewards / operators / catering) if we had just completely shut the top quarter of the ground (the whole Chapel and the two corners that end) and concentrated the fans into the remaining three quarters of the stadium (where lots of people wanted to go anyway!) DUH! But would the response be: OK we'll shut the Chapel and take the savings there, but we will also continue making the savings by closing the corners!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat from Poole Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 The Itchen Corner closure was one of a number of daft decisions made by the Club since Lowe's return, which combined with a lot of people being skint, has contributed to the massive drop in crowds. By and large, Saints fans are not mugs, and will not just turn up out of blind loyalty, having seen a season of utter crap last season. We live in an area with a very high cost of living and people have to make decisions about what they're sacrificing at home if they spend £50-plus on a day out at football. We'd never get 30,000 crowds in League 1 like Man. City, as our fans aren't that thick. Saints won't get the lost fans back quickly. I speak as one who hasn't been this season, and having found plenty of other stuff to occupy my Saturdays, don't envisage returning soon to watch a game with no atmosphere now the Itchen Corner has closed and with little sign of the Northam getting back to anything like the Strachan days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 18 September, 2008 Author Share Posted 18 September, 2008 Saints won't get the lost fans back quickly. I speak as one who hasn't been this season, and having found plenty of other stuff to occupy my Saturdays, don't envisage returning soon to watch a game with no atmosphere now the Itchen Corner has closed and with little sign of the Northam getting back to anything like the Strachan days. This is one of my biggest worries in that whilst some good results might well get some people back in SMS I'm concerned that others will just get out of the habit of going. But in the short term, what is the solution other than going on a winning streak??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat from Poole Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 This is one of my biggest worries in that whilst some good results might well get some people back in SMS I'm concerned that others will just get out of the habit of going. But in the short term, what is the solution other than going on a winning streak??? They're going to have to reduce prices. And re-open the Itchen Corner. Close the Family Centre corner and move them into the central part of the Chapel if they need to make a saving on stewarding etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 They're going to have to reduce prices. And re-open the Itchen Corner. Close the Family Centre corner and move them into the central part of the Chapel if they need to make a saving on stewarding etc. Crowds win games period. I quote the last game of last season, yes the players were there but they were motivated by the crowd who made so made all the difference. These players need that too. a quiet stadium does not motivate the players. There is a credit sqeeze (is that a modern term for recession?) We should fill the stadium and do what ever it takes to fulfill this basic need. Reduce prices and get people in. I read on here time and time again it's cost that's keeping people away. Results do matter but £50 for two us to go is too much money. More than ever we need bums on seats this will trasmit into points and atmosphere encouraging the team and even more people to come along. Sales is directly linked to supply and demand. Reduce the price - dramatically get customers flowing then increase the price to adjust fitting your capacity. If you're not making money tailor your costs accordingly. In this business people come for the match day experience as well as the football - no atmosphere = no experience and no motivation for the team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totton Red Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 Crowds win games period. I quote the last game of last season, yes the players were there but they were motivated by the crowd who made so made all the difference. These players need that too. a quiet stadium does not motivate the players. There is a credit sqeeze (is that a modern term for recession?) We should fill the stadium and do what ever it takes to fulfill this basic need. Reduce prices and get people in. I read on here time and time again it's cost that's keeping people away. Results do matter but £50 for two us to go is too much money. More than ever we need bums on seats this will trasmit into points and atmosphere encouraging the team and even more people to come along. Sales is directly linked to supply and demand. Reduce the price - dramatically get customers flowing then increase the price to adjust fitting your capacity. If you're not making money tailor your costs accordingly. In this business people come for the match day experience as well as the football - no atmosphere = no experience and no motivation for the team! Basic retail model but how will you appease the nine thousand who have paid full price up front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 Crowds win games period. I quote the last game of last season, yes the players were there but they were motivated by the crowd who made so made all the difference. No they don't, they really don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totton Red Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 No they don't, they really don't. 12th man and all that is rubbish then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 18 September, 2008 Share Posted 18 September, 2008 Should have closed the top 6 or 10 rows in Kingsland & Chapel and the Kingsland corners Chapel Itchen & Northam Itchen could then have stayed open and the ground would have looked fuller. very difficult to sing when nobody sits within 20 feet of you. Then it becomes self fulfilling = no atmosphere around you so you stop bothering. The argument is actually irrelevant though some hard work (ok a miracle) to tidy up the defence and some proper WINS while playing good football and some will start to come back. Then a decent result at Rotherham and a good home draw in the cup will help But we'll not do that will we, this is skintsaints we're talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paris Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 Are the club aware that a lot of the fans miss the Itchen North and would like it to open again,why not get a petiton going on the matter and send it to the desision makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_saints Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=16824791663 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 This is one of my biggest worries in that whilst some good results might well get some people back in SMS I'm concerned that others will just get out of the habit of going. But in the short term, what is the solution other than going on a winning streak??? I don't see a solution, but the club should have known their `customer' much better. Any fool knows that once the supporter stops going every week, pretty soon you struggle to get them back at all. Over the last three years the club should have done absolutely everything in their power to keep ever single supporter happy. Closing the Itchen corner has ****ed off many many fans. Only a few ST holders asked for their money back, but how many non season ticket holders are not coming to games because of it? The club may have saved a few quid this season, but if someone doesn't come back this season they might never return. How much is that going to cost the club over the next ten years especially if we don't make it back to the Premiership? I classify myself as `mug fan' but this decision ****ed me off so much even I felt like calling it a day. I didn't, but now I have a long season of watching football without the matchday experience I hanker for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northam soul Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 Two of us have moved from itchen corner to block 4 and have to say it has been pretty poor this season for atmosphere. There is no way they will back track now and open the itchen corner, even if we get a big gate they will open that corner last as it costs the most to police / steward and if they did open it for one game by the time they realised it would be needed maybe on walk ups us old regulars would not be able to get back there anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintkiptanui Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 False economy. It took about 5 years to build the atmosphere at SMS to something to be proud of. So many away fans I spoke to in the past would comment on how easy it is to get drowned out between the northam and Itchen. In 1 close season that was all destroyed. If only 500 of the missing 6000 stay away from sms this season because of the corners being shut the thats about £150k lost........spot on, bad decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 Meh. We should have stayed at The Dell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 Meh. We should have stayed at The Dell. I bet they would have closed the corners there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 I bet they would have closed the corners there too. Didn't have any corners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Second Coming Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 We should have closed the Chapel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerox Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 my gf and i didn't renew due to cost (had st's 5 years) and we made this decision before the corners were shut (we used to sit in cc blk3). we want to go to a few games this season but i'm really not sure where to sit now, we loved where we sat and got on ok with the people around us and the banter was fantastic - everything i want from a day at the footie! people on here are saying that you get into the habit of not going, they are right because as things are going i would not be supprised if i didn't get down there this season. the club did nothing to encourge st's to renew. even the early bird price was a joke considering the dross served up last season, and before, and before.....really sad all round. i think the club need to get pro-active with this issue as gates could soon be down to 10k and then it may be too late. PS - where did all you who sat around cc blk3 move to??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 Didn't have any corners You're sharp :smt058 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 I don't think it's made any difference. We have much more stewards now than we used to - especially around the edge of the pitch. There was a steward every 2 metres. Also, in the Kingsland north, they still had the same amount of staff working in the bar/diner. So please someone explain where we are saving money? If we are talking about "necessary evils", surely we should close the whole of the Chapel or the whole of the Kingsland? This would save on stewards and medical staff for the whole stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 19 September, 2008 Share Posted 19 September, 2008 Does anyone know the legal number of stewards you have to have per 1000 of crowd. i agree with an earlier poster regarding the number of stewards seeming to be as high as when we had 32000. Every entrance from the bars to the stadium appears to still have 2 , the only difference i have visible seem is the number of turnstiles manned from opening time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 20 September, 2008 Share Posted 20 September, 2008 The Chapel seem to have a high percentage of stewards watching the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_bert Posted 20 September, 2008 Share Posted 20 September, 2008 I don't think if itchen north had stayed open we would have got more points from our games. It probably did ruin some peoples match experience, for which they haven't come back (but definately not the reason we are 7k down). The attendances show it was a worthy decision, can't even fill other areas of the ground. However, i'm not really bothered about attendances as Northam seems pretty much full every game so the atmophere is about the same. I dont feel the Northam is the same at times this season, different people just coming here because its the Northam, hence the idiots chanting woopert out weds night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 20 September, 2008 Share Posted 20 September, 2008 I dont feel the Northam is the same at times this season, different people just coming here because its the Northam, hence the idiots chanting woopert out weds night there's idiots in the Northam? Nothing has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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