Transfer Committees

[Wade Garrett]

They don't work. They didn't work under Lowe, we had a bloated first team squad of over 40 when we got relegated from the Prem. And they won't work now.

 

I'm all for Les Reed setting up the Academy and overhauling the scouting system because that's where his strengths lie. But let's face it, he shouldn't have an input into who the club should buy to play in the first team.

 

I don't think any decent manager will want the job if he has to buy players recommended by a committee. Mr Cortese should appoint a manager that he trusts enough to recruit players without a yay or nay from anyone else apart from himself (in a financial capacity, not a sporting one like Lowe).

 

This is in no way an anti-Cortese rant. Far from it. I didn't particularly rate Pardew and I'm sure there's better out there. But to get a decent man in, you have to trust him.

[John B]

They don't work. They didn't work under Lowe, we had a bloated first team squad of over 40 when we got relegated from the Prem. And they won't work now.

 

I'm all for Les Reed setting up the Academy and overhauling the scouting system because that's where his strengths lie. But let's face it, he shouldn't have an input into who the club should buy to play in the first team.

 

I don't think any decent manager will want the job if he has to buy players recommended by a committee. Mr Cortese should appoint a manager that he trusts enough to recruit players without a yay or nay from anyone else apart from himself (in a financial capacity, not a sporting one like Lowe).

 

 

There is in no way I am Pro Cortese I didn't particularly rate Pardew and I'm sure there's better out there. and I agree with all your comments regarding Transfer Committees - Any idea what other clubs have them

[SuperSAINT]

Haven't Forest set something similar up which has p*ssed Billy Davies off?

[S-Clarke]

I agree with you.

 

A manager should be left to pick the players, select the team, sort out the transfers and appoint the coaching staff around him that he see's fit.

 

When we first got pardew and there was talk of him overhauling the scouting system etc i actually believed that he is being left to build the football side of the club, which is exactly how it should work.

 

but recent events unfortunatley seem to suggest otherwise. Cortese has always indended to bring a european setup here and i think this will be the way we work now, and the manager we appoint will have to accept that. I think that will limit our options somewhat.

[Julian H. Cope]

They don't work. They didn't work under Lowe, we had a bloated first team squad of over 40 when we got relegated from the Prem. And they won't work now.

 

I'm all for Les Reed setting up the Academy and overhauling the scouting system because that's where his strengths lie. But let's face it, he shouldn't have an input into who the club should buy to play in the first team.

 

I don't think any decent manager will want the job if he has to buy players recommended by a committee. Mr Cortese should appoint a manager that he trusts enough to recruit players without a yay or nay from anyone else apart from himself (in a financial capacity, not a sporting one like Lowe).

 

This is in no way an anti-Cortese rant. Far from it. I didn't particularly rate Pardew and I'm sure there's better out there. But to get a decent man in, you have to trust him.

 

Nutshell

[MarkSFC]

If by not working now (if in fact this is the case - and not just The Echo sayso or whoever!) you mean signing Harding, Lambert, Hammond, Puncheon, Fonte, Jaidi, Dickson, Richardson, Butterfiled, Waigo, Antonio, Barnard, Connolly, Martin, aren't good enough products of that then I say keep it up actually!

 

Of course its all changed now AP and cronies have gone but in theory if they were a committee it was doing ok!!

 

Les Reed I'm sure would have had an input particularly at U21 level, but I'm sure he didnt lead the committee.

 

Cortese seems (from the outside at least) to draw very strict lines when it come to job description, responsibilities and accountabilities. Any manager coming in must be empowered to make the final decision on "choice" of player. I'm sure he will be!!

[rpb]

I agree with all your comments regarding Transfer Committees - Any idea what other clubs have them

 

Just guessing - Real Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan...?

[once_bitterne]

The bloated squad of 40 when we went down was nothing to do with a committee and everything to do with having three different managers in a single season.

[buctootim]

They don't work. They didn't work under Lowe, we had a bloated first team squad of over 40 when we got relegated from the Prem. And they won't work now.

 

I'm all for Les Reed setting up the Academy and overhauling the scouting system because that's where his strengths lie. But let's face it, he shouldn't have an input into who the club should buy to play in the first team.

 

I don't think any decent manager will want the job if he has to buy players recommended by a committee. Mr Cortese should appoint a manager that he trusts enough to recruit players without a yay or nay from anyone else apart from himself (in a financial capacity, not a sporting one like Lowe).

 

This is in no way an anti-Cortese rant. Far from it. I didn't particularly rate Pardew and I'm sure there's better out there. But to get a decent man in, you have to trust him.

 

They are two very different philosophies - have a committee building a squad of players equipped and trained to play a certain way over a long period of time regardless of who the first team manager is at any one time - ie develop a Southampton style. Or allow each manager to bring in his own players and tactics. I think the second option is fine if you have an outstanding manager ala Ferguson or Wenger - but I dont think you can rely on it if you have to make do with the kind of imperfect or incomplete managers that we can attract to Lg1, particulalry as any manager who has real success with us will likely be lured away to a good premiership side fairly quickly.

Edited 1 September, 2010 by buctootim

[paris]

Had a feeling bringing Les Reed in might not sit well with AP > just a hunch...

[70's Mike]

They are two very different philosophies - have a committee building a squad of players equipped and trained to play a certain way over a long period of time regardless of who the first team manager is at any one time - ie develop a Southampton style. Or allow each manager to bring in his own players and tactics. I think the second option is fine if you have an outstanding manager ala Ferguson or Wenger - but I dont think you can rely on it if you have to make do with the kind of flawed or incomplete managers that we can attract to Lg1.

 

problem is name a club where the first philosphy has worked, is working now

[Wade Garrett]

The bloated squad of 40 when we went down was nothing to do with a committee and everything to do with having three different managers in a single season.

 

Maybe if Strachan was left to his own devices, without interference, we wouldn't have gone through three managers in 1 season in the first place.

[buctootim]

problem is name a club where the first philosphy has worked' date=' is working now[/quote']

 

Like someone else posted, most of the top European sides, but not much in the UK, that I know of.

[Wade Garrett]

The bloated squad of 40 when we went down was nothing to do with a committee and everything to do with having three different managers in a single season.

 

The committee's policy back then seemed to be sell 1 decent player for good money, and buy three average players with the proceeds (although to be fair, they struck gold once with Peter Crouch).

[stevegrant]

Haven't Forest set something similar up which has p*ssed Billy Davies off?

Anything that ****es Billy Davies off is a good thing IMO.

 

On the subject of transfer committees, I would expect it's no different at other clubs. The manager will select a few players he particularly likes, the chief scout will report back on a number of players he's seen, and then the pair of them plus whoever's in charge of the finances (Cortese in our case) and possibly one other (Reed) would discuss their merits, what the squad's key requirements are, whether they fit into the budget, etc.

[Wade Garrett]

I don't believe anyone forced Neil McCann on him, or Telfer. He was far from perfect, just relatively much better than most the rubbish since.

 

You're right about Telfer, but to be fair he was his golfing partner. McCann was purchased after Lowe gave him the bum's rush on De Pedro.

[buctootim]

The committee's policy back then seemed to be sell 1 decent player for good money, and buy three average players with the proceeds (although to be fair, they struck gold once with Peter Crouch).

 

Thats to do with who you have on the committee though - its not a fault of the system itself.

[70's Mike]

Like someone else posted, most of the top European sides, but not much in the UK, that I know of.

 

Exactly , another CEO who wants to change the world, financially , i agree we need to be self funding etc but why try and change the football world

[Alanh]

I'm pretty sure that all decent sized clubs - Saints size and bigger - will have a committee that decides on transfers. Alex Ferguson even admitted recently that he bought a player on a recommendtion of other people including Quieroz, who isn't even at Man U any more. At Saints the manager is on the committee so he has input, and probably the casting vote, on who he wants. Whether he gets them will depend on the Chairman's ability to negotiate a deal. The strategy of that committee is the important thing and we know that the strategy this summer has been to cut out the deadwood and bring in better players so I don't think you can point too many accusatory fingers at the committee for that.

[Fan The Flames]

Does the Transfer Committe purchase players for the first team or do they just concentrate on finding talent for the academy.

[Wade Garrett]

I'm pretty sure that all decent sized clubs - Saints size and bigger - will have a committee that decides on transfers. Alex Ferguson even admitted recently that he bought a player on a recommendtion of other people including Quieroz, who isn't even at Man U any more. At Saints the manager is on the committee so he has input, and probably the casting vote, on who he wants. Whether he gets them will depend on the Chairman's ability to negotiate a deal. The strategy of that committee is the important thing and we know that the strategy this summer has been to cut out the deadwood and bring in better players so I don't think you can point too many accusatory fingers at the committee for that.

 

I'm not saying that the 'committee' has done a bad job. I just don't agree with them in principle. Every manager has players recommended to them, the point with Ferguson is that the decision making is left to him. If we want a decent manager, then the Chairman needs to trust his judgement enough to let him be the decision maker.

[Fan The Flames]

There is such resistance in England by the collective of managers to change the way clubs are managed. In a way you can't blame the managers they are judged and sacked on the performance of the players. But on the other hand their resistance to change is as much about protecting their position and worth.

[derry]

With a committee the Chairman can get a balanced view regarding the valuation of a player and not pay over the odds on a managers say so. Antonio?

[wild-saint]

What committee is this? I appreciate that Les Reed may rung the scouting network but I am sure that he makes requests of the team on who to scout and also makes a fianl decision on which of all the players that are scouted he wants.

 

 

Where has this information that Les reed decides who we purchase?

[Alanh]

I'm not saying that the 'committee' has done a bad job. I just don't agree with them in principle. Every manager has players recommended to them, the point with Ferguson is that the decision making is left to him. If we want a decent manager, then the Chairman needs to trust his judgement enough to let him be the decision maker.

 

I can't really see the problem with them so long as the manager has the casting vote and doesn't have players foisted on him. They are essentially a mechanism to bring together the views of a variety of sources of information which is better than having one man run the show and effectively spend the club's money i.e. 'Arry at just about every club he's been at apart from us and Spurs.

[Wade Garrett]

With a committee the Chairman can get a balanced view regarding the valuation of a player and not pay over the odds on a managers say so. Antonio?

 

If the valuation for him was a million, then you make a very good point.

[derry]

What committee is this? I appreciate that Les Reed may rung the scouting network but I am sure that he makes requests of the team on who to scout and also makes a fianl decision on which of all the players that are scouted he wants.

 

 

Where has this information that Les reed decides who we purchase?

 

He didn't. Cortese, Pardew, Reed and David Burke (recruitment/scouting manager) were the discussion group to decide on transfers. It requires the co operation of all concerned but the balance can be upset by a manager with a big ego and not a team player, who would IMO be the last person to give an open cheque book to.

[Wade Garrett]

He didn't. Cortese, Pardew, Reed and David Burke (recruitment/scouting manager) were the discussion group to decide on transfers. It requires the co operation of all concerned but the balance can be upset by a manager with a big ego and not a team player, who would IMO be the last person to give an open cheque book to.

 

The committee should consist of the manager and the chairman. If the chairman wants a bit of feedback from the scouting manager and the academy manager then so be it. But this does undermine the manager somewhat. If, however, the chairman refuses to pay over the odds for a player then the manager has to accept it, he isn't being undermined on his judgement, it's just that sometimes deals don't happen..

 

My main point is that I couldn't see a decent manager willing to be undermined in this way.

[derry]

The committee should consist of the manager and the chairman. If the chairman wants a bit of feedback from the scouting manager and the academy manager then so be it. But this does undermine the manager somewhat. If, however, the chairman refuses to pay over the odds for a player then the manager has to accept it, he isn't being undermined on his judgement, it's just that sometimes deals don't happen..

 

My main point is that I couldn't see a decent manager willing to be undermined in this way.

 

With so much money going out of clubs to agents etc I personally think it better to exercise control over the budget. If the valuation of a player is objective, the manager wants the player then that should be it, however if the manager just wants the player and the valuation is in the view of the other two football men inflated, the Chairman has to make the decision whether to blow the money or look somewhere else. I think Pardew was banking on buying Antonio but Reading knew that and didn't lower the price. I wouldn't be surprised to see him out of Reading for not a lot of money before Christmas, loan then permanent.

[SuperSAINT]

The committee has been around at saints for a little while though.

 

When was the last Solent Forum? I remember Cortese saying then that all transfers are discussed between various people before they sign them - Maybe since Reed has joined Pards had less of a say? Who knows.

 

Maybe he got more p*ssed off that some of his recommendations weren’t being accepted?

[Legod Third Coming]

I would encourage anyone to download last night's fivelive sport and listen to the debate among Chairmen (Gould, Whelan and Barry Hearne) on giving managers freedom to buy players. There are pros and cons, but for me Hearne summed it up when he said 'how could I bring a manager in, judge him on results, but not give him the freedom to make decisions about the team?' or words to that effect... Call me old fashioned but not a succesful manager alive has not been handed the freedom to make selection choices based on his own style and process. Sure, they all have budgets to work within but good managers are better qualified to judge than Chairmen, that's just bleedin' obvious...