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Do SISA or The Trust speak for you, yes or no

Toomer

By Toomer,
in The Saints

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Do SISA or The Trust speak for you?  

637 members have voted

  1. 1. Do SISA or The Trust speak for you?

    • Yes
      28
    • No
      609

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Secret Site Agent

Secret Site Agent

Posted
Posted
They do not speak for me, never have done and never will.

 

No they don't. Never gave me the oportunity of expressing my opinion, the trust had a unique purpose that is now gone and what input can I have in SISA? Had they polled the members? held ballots? Loooked to expand the membership? No. To be truly representative they both need to fold and restart as a new entity.

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
Just emailed the club suggesting that SISA is a disaffected group which is an embarrassment to many and hugely unrepresentative of the fanbase. They have their own agenda which might be best served by supporting another club. Why on earth are they given media space?

 

Why did you email the club? I think they already realise what a non-entity SISA are. It's the Echo that need prompting in this department. Although I've previously contacted them on a number of occasions and also tried to engage Dan Kerins on the matter on a couple of topics on here, all to no avail.

 

And I agree with CanadaSaint, it would be nice to see a poll on the matter; if nothing else to determine whether this forum alone is content at the Echo claiming that SISA are their Fans' representatives.

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Noodles34

Noodles34

Posted
Posted

ahh, seen the other fred, makes a bit more sense but judging even by the initial posts, you might have well asked; "Do you support Saints" or "Is the Eiffel Tower slightly tall?"

Definately not one to deny someone's right to start a topic but this one does seem a little pointless, especially considering the other fred.

SISA did help get rid of Branfoot though... can't be all bad!

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Foxstone

Foxstone

Posted
Posted
The more important question is: do they genuinely believe they are representing the views of saints fans (i.e. A form of delusion) or do they know they're not but for some kind of personal crusade consciously decide to carry on as if they do?

 

Pure mischief making in my view.

 

Divide and rule !

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Danny

Danny

Posted
Posted

I've always replied whenever anyone has asked me a question like that, provided I have seen it. Apologies if I've missed it, but in future it may be best to contact me directly.

 

As I've said previously, they give their opinions and then they are printed. Simple as. Like I said last time this came up on here, if anyone else wants to give their opinion, PM me your mobile number and I'll pass it on to the sport editor (no-one did last time I made that offer).

 

It really is a case of more the merrier. The paper prints the opinions of individual fans; if they have a title attached to them as part of some organisation, then so be it. It doesn't for a single second mean their opinion is worthy any more than anyone else's (for example, my column in the Pink/Echo site is no more important than what anyone else says - it's just a load of nonsense spouted by yours truly).

 

I'm not aware of the Echo ever referring to SISA as the voice of the fans (or the Trust for that matter). Steve Grant is regularly quoted in the paper too, and I don't see anyone (on here) complaining about that. We also print lots of comments taken from the Echo site. Being in the paper just means your opinion was considered interesting or relevant, or you have done (or are planning) something newsworthy.

 

Simply being published in the paper in no way implies endorsement of any kind.

 

As for the story in today's paper, if it was any other group of Saints fans organising a meeting in the city, then it would be published too (assuming the Echo is informed, which doesn't always happen). It's an event that is happening and that fact is reported. As I know from experience, people often tend to infer things that aren't there in articles (I've often been accused of favouring both sides of a debate in the same article).

 

I hope this sort of (hurriedly) explains the situation.

 

I really, really don't want to get drawn into more debates about the Echo on here (I spend all day getting abuse on the Echo's own site as it is, so don't want to start again on here, in my own time!) so will just say, if anyone doesn't like the people who give their opinions in the paper, then please send me a DM/email (dan.kerins@dailyecho.co.uk) with your real name and a mobile phone number and I'll get you added to the list of fans who are happy to give their own opinions, when I'm back in the office next week.

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Danny

Danny

Posted
Posted
ok...danny, when I am back I will forward you my number..I bet I get no where near the requests for "opinions" that the trust/mad people get...

 

deal

 

You have to be prepared to offer opinions too. More often than not they contact they paper, rather than the other way around, but once you become known as often being available and able to speak your mind, then you'll be in the paper and you'll be considered someone worth calling for opinions when the need arises.

 

Send me your number now along with the dates you're back, to make sure neither of us forgets.

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PokingFun

PokingFun

Posted
Posted

I don't even know who they are or why they exist and I certainly do not agree that the Liebherr family owe us any transparency other than what Nicola Cortese has already stated following Markus's sad death.

 

I can't say I have ever agreed with anything any so called fans groups have ever stated, whether it is Saints or other clubs on SSN. Usually, it's some extremist mouthing off rubbish but the media boys do love a quote from an uber fan do they not?!

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted

Dan, a couple of points.

 

Your statement “I'm not aware of the Echo ever referring to SISA as the voice of the fans (or the Trust for that matter)” is not true. On a number of occasions the Echo have referred in the headline to SISA or Saints Trust representatives as “Fans’ Chief”. It may be by implication only but by that you are suggesting they are a true voice of the fans.

 

And yes, Steve Grant is regularly quoted too; however, the difference here is that he is listed usually as “Saints Web Forum owner”, which while giving him a title does not infer that he is speaking on behalf of the organisation he is associated with.

 

Secondly, as the starter of this thread, my points was not for it to be solely designed for SISA bashing. What I would truly like to happen is for the Echo to be able to report the views of a cross section of fans in the best manner possible. I simply don’t think you do that when giving such prominence to the likes of SISA and Saints trust. I would suggest there are a large number of ways in which you could provide good, balanced reporting:

 

1) per today’s edition, have a “fan’s view”, where a different fan is invited to pen his own opinions.

 

2) Use this site or the Daily Echo site to run a poll on certain issues and report from them.

 

3) Have a “for and against” debate; you give space to SISA, why not find a way to offer others a chance to counter the demands made by SISA?

 

I think my main point is that you often rely on the opinion of just one person, then attempt to inject gravitas by including their title. I’d like to see the Echo find much more creative ways of gauging fans opinions rather than simply giving Nick Illingsworth a call when you need a suitable soundbite.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
I've always replied whenever anyone has asked me a question like that, provided I have seen it. Apologies if I've missed it, but in future it may be best to contact me directly.

 

As I've said previously, they give their opinions and then they are printed. Simple as. Like I said last time this came up on here, if anyone else wants to give their opinion, PM me your mobile number and I'll pass it on to the sport editor (no-one did last time I made that offer).

 

It really is a case of more the merrier. The paper prints the opinions of individual fans; if they have a title attached to them as part of some organisation, then so be it. It doesn't for a single second mean their opinion is worthy any more than anyone else's (for example, my column in the Pink/Echo site is no more important than what anyone else says - it's just a load of nonsense spouted by yours truly).

 

I'm not aware of the Echo ever referring to SISA as the voice of the fans (or the Trust for that matter). Steve Grant is regularly quoted in the paper too, and I don't see anyone (on here) complaining about that. We also print lots of comments taken from the Echo site. Being in the paper just means your opinion was considered interesting or relevant, or you have done (or are planning) something newsworthy.

 

Simply being published in the paper in no way implies endorsement of any kind.

 

As for the story in today's paper, if it was any other group of Saints fans organising a meeting in the city, then it would be published too (assuming the Echo is informed, which doesn't always happen). It's an event that is happening and that fact is reported. As I know from experience, people often tend to infer things that aren't there in articles (I've often been accused of favouring both sides of a debate in the same article).

 

I hope this sort of (hurriedly) explains the situation.

 

I really, really don't want to get drawn into more debates about the Echo on here (I spend all day getting abuse on the Echo's own site as it is, so don't want to start again on here, in my own time!) so will just say, if anyone doesn't like the people who give their opinions in the paper, then please send me a DM/email (dan.kerins@dailyecho.co.uk) with your real name and a mobile phone number and I'll get you added to the list of fans who are happy to give their own opinions, when I'm back in the office next week.

 

Hi Danny,

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain the mechanics.

 

I'm what you might call a middle of the road Saints fan - in other words I tend to see both sides of any discussion point (or, as my wife calls it: 'sitting on the fence'!

 

I hear what you say about 'SISA' or the 'Saints Trust' being treated the same as any Saints fan who declares an interest in making their views available for media publication but the point people are making about these 'organisations' are that your average reader WILL attribute a significant element of gravitas to the views being portrayed by such an 'organisation' as it is human nature to see an acronym and or name of a group and make the logical leap that they are formally representing a significant number of fans.

 

I can believe it when you say that the Echo don't overtly set out to raise the profile of these so called organisations when you represent them in an article but it's all about public perception and when the public see an article quoting these organisations they will perceive them to be officially recognised institutions whether you set out to portray that or not.

 

Perhaps the best thing to do for balance is to print a footnote at the bottom of any fan initiated article with a one liner along the lines of: organisation 'x' has 'n' members so that people can clearly see how many people then purport to represent.

 

Just a view from a fence sitter!

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
This forum could be the best representative of fans views. All it needs to do is run balanced polls and get 300+ responses.

 

But do the mods/owner want to take it on? They could help shape the agenda.

 

Not necessarily the mods responsibility though; perhaps there could be an arrangement whereby Echo reporters can engage with the fans through here. For example, for todays piece. Fine, SISA have made their statement and the Echo deems that newsworthy. But make it a feature piece. Have a poll, either on here or on the Echo's site, asking if people agree with SISA's stance or not. And provide some quotes that adequately sum up the balance of resulting opinion.

 

That would provide some genuine balanced reporting and a forum for those people who don't want to be pigeon holed into the collective thinking of a minority of vocal protesters.

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dune

dune

Posted
Posted
As for the story in today's paper, if it was any other group of Saints fans organising a meeting in the city, then it would be published too.

 

I'm sure everybody appreciates your post and your paper, but surely you must realise that SISA and The Saints Trust are not supporters groups. They were once, but now they are just the megaphones for a few (litterally a few people) that for some weird reason want to give the impression that they're important.

 

In future just name them, don't give them a title.

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Danny

Danny

Posted
Posted (edited)

Kraken, we already do all three of the points you raise. We often, (a few times a week) have columns written by fans. Usually, these tend to be letters from fans that are actually quite lengthy and articulate. As you alluded to, the main article on the same page as the story about SISA in today's edition is one of these pieces (it gets about twice as much space on the page as the article about SISA does) and they always have the "Fan View" logo on them (or the page, if there is more than one). That's before we get on to the regular the columns in The Pink by Daren Wheeler and Neil Gosney, and the normal Saints letters from readers. We also print a large number of comments from our site, especially in The Pink and in Monday's paper.

 

We also have a number of polls on the site (I know, I'm the one who uploads them and sets the questions). Usually these are in the most relevant article and the front page of the Saints' section and change a couple of times during the week (the current one is about what people make of the appointment of Adkins, which I uploaded on Sunday night), or even on the front page of the entire site, if the story is big enough. Then the result is often referred to in any follow-up story, though seldom as a story in its own right.

 

If people contact us contemporaneously with a counter argument (that isn't just a vitriolic rant against the individuals, as these things often are I'm sorry to say) it will get printed, or at the very least considered for publication. That's why we often ask for readers' opinions and comments in the paper, and why we have a comment section on www.dailyecho.co.uk. Comments on the website often tend to be too short or have too many obscenities though, to base an entire article on (and emails to the posters often go unanswered).

 

As for the "fans' chief" comment - they are in charge of organisations (relatively small ones, admittedly) of fans. A headline is often limited to about twenty characters, so to explain the nuances of their position in the big scheme of things is not appropriate - that is what is done in the article, by saying something like "Joe Bloggs, secretary of the Fan club". People often assume that the word "fans" means all fans. I've never understood why.

 

No-one has passed comment on the article by Aidan Mills from North Baddesley on the same page as the SISA article (despite it being twice as big and neither being online), and to my mind is perhaps a bit more controversial than the SISA article.

 

People will remember that we printed something about SISA today, they won't remember Aidan's piece, so the assumption is we only ever print SISA's opinions and no-one else's - when it clearly isn't the case.

 

Engaging works two ways. If more people come to us, the more opinions we will have to publish.

Edited by Danny
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Thedelldays

Thedelldays

Posted
Posted

I am the head of the southwest saints supporters trust...our mandate is the following...

 

To meet every month for pasties and cider

wear red and white stripes to the local rectory for the tombola nights

take it in turns to call the numbers at bingo

discuss saints and plan our annual trip to watch a game live

 

when I mail you my number..I assume you will now attach "fans chief" to my comments..?????

you have no idea if my organisation exists or even if it is legit...much can probably be said of SISA nowadays

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Danny

Danny

Posted
Posted
Give us some numbers.
I don't know off the top of my head (we have published the numbers in the last year though.). It's irrelevant, really. The Echo website has far more registered users than this forum does. Does that make it a better gauge of fan's opinion? I don't think it does. It's just different.
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