dune Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Unlike The Trust and SISA we could do things democratically and properly and give The Echo the majority view of several hundred fans. Danny reads the forum and a series of poll results would carry far more weight than the views of a few mates that parade themselves as the voice of the fans. It doesn't have to be complicated or have leaders with titles, it just needs to be done properly and when a given poll is finnished a vote taken on suggestions (that anyone can put forward) as a suitably balanced press release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Great idea. But can we allow a few hours to debate the wordings of the questions please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Totally agree, this is great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettuce Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Nice idea, but the problem is that the result of any majority vote would probably be a sensible, well-thought out statement, not the sort of controversial, sensationalist material that sells papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 17 September, 2010 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Great idea. But can we allow a few hours to debate the wordings of the questions please. The best course of action would be a monthly rolling system with a week for motions to be put forward, then 3 days compiling a locked multi poll, and 4 days with the poll open to vote on the motions. Then in week 3 the motions voted for (say the most popular 2) are given 3 days debating time, then 4 days voting time. Then in week 4 suitable press releases are allowed to be submitted for 3 days, and in the last 4 days the chance is given for everyone to vote on the one to be released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Nice idea, but the problem is that the result of any majority vote would probably be a sensible, well-thought out statement, not the sort of controversial, sensationalist material that sells papers. Fine. But it might show that 60% have no problem with x decision, 20% agree with it but 20% disagree and will stop buying Hot dogs/burgers. 20% could still hurt the food sale revenue and should make people take notice of some minority views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 The best course of action would be a monthly rolling system with a week for motions to be put forward, then 3 days compiling a locked multi poll, and 4 days with the poll open to vote on the motions. Then in week 3 the motions voted for (say the most popular 2) are given 3 days debating time, then 4 days voting time. Then in week 4 suitable press releases are allowed to be submitted for 3 days, and in the last 4 days the chance is given for everyone to vote on the one to be released. I would suggest it has to be much quicker such as a day to think about the question/s, 2 days for the poll to be open and on the 4th day the press release is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 17 September, 2010 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Nice idea, but the problem is that the result of any majority vote would probably be a sensible, well-thought out statement, not the sort of controversial, sensationalist material that sells papers. Au Contraire. Let the Echo continue with the rants from SISA to sell their papers, but with this initiative it would destroy their rants and turn them into nothing but a laughing stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 17 September, 2010 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2010 I would suggest it has to be much quicker such as a day to think about the question/s, 2 days for the poll to be open and on the 4th day the press release is done. Well of course a vote on suggested systems would be the way to go in the first instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 So will we be the Peoples Front of Judea or the Judean's People Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 17 September, 2010 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2010 This could be our first ever press release poll from which suggestions for a press release can be submitted to vote upon... http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?25316-Do-SISA-or-The-Trust-speak-for-you-yes-or-no I think this would be a fantastic topic to launch with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Funnily enough, this is something I was thinking about setting up a couple of months ago. I even approach SRS (before he went mental;)) for advice. !!! I think we should have a fans group whereby membership is obtained simply by providing an email address for correspondance, there would be no "leader" or "spokesman/woman", instead, you would produce the results of polls etc to get our point across. We could conduct polls, and then go to the echo with statements like... 67% of our members arent happy with the hotdogs in St Marys 73% Want a season ticket installment plan. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Great idea dune. Is TSW an acronym for The Socialist Worker? If so, I propose the formation of a committee to discuss appropriate styles of beard. Can we all wear berets too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 17 September, 2010 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2010 I think the likes of Guided Missile would be able to offer so excellent advice on the framework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Great idea. Won't work. Unless it has one organiser/co-ordinator. Heck TSW couldn't even get a full team out for the forum match at SMS (a dream for many) and had to scrape around at the last minute. Democracy is a wonderful thing until you try and organise something by Committee, so it needs a general set of "strictures" in place where the one co-ordinator can pull the weekly top 3 issues from the forum threads and work on a poll. Then how the hell do you turn a Vote into a Statement that anyone can be interested to read? It needs someone to then read all the poll comments and select a precis, that then becomes one person's interpretation and as we have seen one person's interpretation is anothers rant against. Perhaps the poll comments could be read by Dan as a finger on the pulse article, but then it competes with the Echo Comments. So, a lot of work for one person every week and what happens on holidays? So not easy and I would expect a weekly Hot Topics poll is about as far as it can go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robsk II Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Marsdinho, why would you approach SRS for advice? And is he in an asylum now? Yet, should I say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 I think the likes of Guided Missile would be able to offer so excellent advice on the framework. I laughed so much I soiled myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baj Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Sorry chaps but this "voice of TSW" has been discussed before. As TSW is myself and steve, any voice would be representative of us, which we are certainly not happy with. We're not against people expressing their opinion of course, and if you all want to organise something as a group of fans and write to the echo, using the forum as the medium to put together that opinion then thats great, but not if its representative of saintsweb, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 17 September, 2010 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Sorry chaps but this "voice of TSW" has been discussed before. As TSW is myself and steve, any voice would be representative of us, which we are certainly not happy with. We're not against people expressing their opinion of course, and if you all want to organise something as a group of fans and write to the echo, using the forum as the medium to put together that opinion then thats great, but not if its representative of saintsweb, sorry. Nor should it be, but I can see where you're coming from, and I can appreciate that even if you and Steve simply provided the vehicle for a democratic process there would potentially be consequences due there being a number of weirdos in our fan base. For that reason I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baj Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Nor should it be, but I can see where you're coming from, and I can appreciate that even if you and Steve simply provided the vehicle for a democratic process there would potentially be consequences due there being a number of weirdos in our fan base. For that reason I understand. cool. to reiterate, we've absolutely no problem with people using the forum as a vehicle to organise a fans view, as long as that view isnt expressed as "Saints Web announce..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 cool. to reiterate, we've absolutely no problem with people using the forum as a vehicle to organise a fans view, as long as that view isnt expressed as "Saints Web announce..." Would "an online poll of Saints fans with over 500 responses found that 78% of fans..." be okay wording (i.e. no mention of Saints Web), or would you prefer "an online poll of Saints fans, conducted on the Saints Web site, found that 78% of fans..."? The latter doesn't suggest that you are announcing or stating anything, but does give you free advertising... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 cool. to reiterate, we've absolutely no problem with people using the forum as a vehicle to organise a fans view, as long as that view isnt expressed as "Saints Web announce..." Im sure I've seen stories in the echo in the past, where they have quoted Steve and the Saints Web. May be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Marsdinho, why would you approach SRS for advice? And is he in an asylum now? Yet, should I say? It was around the time of the Silverspoons fiasco, when he seemed to share similar views to myself, he even managed to organise seperate coaches up to london etc, I go the impression he was someone that could help with the initital set up and provide new ideas. To his credit, he was helpful and did offer some new ideas.....but then went a bit mental, and the rest (as they say) is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baj Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Im sure I've seen stories in the echo in the past, where they have quoted Steve and the Saints Web. May be wrong Theres a difference between them quoting the forum, and Saints Web making a public statement on behalf of the fans, surely you can see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baj Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Would "an online poll of Saints fans with over 500 responses found that 78% of fans..." be okay wording (i.e. no mention of Saints Web), or would you prefer "an online poll of Saints fans, conducted on the Saints Web site, found that 78% of fans..."? The latter doesn't suggest that you are announcing or stating anything, but does give you free advertising... Polls are fine, however you want to word it, since it gives clarification of a collection of independent opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Theres a difference between them quoting the forum, and Saints Web making a public statement on behalf of the fans, surely you can see that? Yeah, thats why I said "may be wrong", as I wasnt sure of the context that it was used, due to not having the article to hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 17 September, 2010 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2010 cool. to reiterate, we've absolutely no problem with people using the forum as a vehicle to organise a fans view, as long as that view isnt expressed as "Saints Web announce..." It would need "Admin" or whatever ghost name you lot use to set up things like polls and stickies up though. Also because it'd be done via this medium any view expressed would have to be started e.g "members of the saintsweb forum voted x to z in a poll and have issued the following agreed statement blah blah. The forum and therfore yourselves would be inextricably linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Great idea, and one that I suggested to Dan yesterday. He didn't seem keen to run with it, though did add that if there was fan enthusiasm for it it was something they would consider. Given that SISA have produced an incendiary and controversial demand from the Liebherr family, I'd suggest the first poll (aside from the "Do SISA speak for you" mullering) could be: "Do you agree with SISA that the Liebherr family should provide a public statement to highlight their future intentions for SFC". This would need to be balanced by any previous public statements made on the subject, which would be easy to reproduce on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Does there have to be a final statement, why cant we just publish the results of the poll. x% liked this, x% arent happy with that, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawillwill Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 What kind of questions would we have polls for? Will it be stuff like which songs we sing in our next match? If so can we please make sure ART's suggesstion is included? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Does there have to be a final statement, why cant we just publish the results of the poll. x% liked this, x% arent happy with that, etc etc. I'd suggest it would have to be a factual statement, just clarifying the poll numbers. If a generic "opinion" statement can be agreed upon, then great, but I think that might prove altogether more difficult. There's no reason though why we couldn't provide a balanced opinion piece, by providing a typical comment from either side of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Problem is, loads of people on here don't even go to the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holepuncture Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Unlike The Trust and SISA we could do things democratically and properly and give The Echo the majority view of several hundred fans. Danny reads the forum and a series of poll results would carry far more weight than the views of a few mates that parade themselves as the voice of the fans. It doesn't have to be complicated or have leaders with titles, it just needs to be done properly and when a given poll is finnished a vote taken on suggestions (that anyone can put forward) as a suitably balanced press release. Agree Dune The polls on here are decent, sometimes up to 1000 votes, good representation (at least a digital representation) SiSa polls must only have 3-4 votes, bad representation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Problem is, loads of people on here don't even go to the games. It is possible to have a view on something without seeing it first hand.... e.g. The Iraq War Japanese Whaling England's performance at the South African World Cup Chris de Burgh Concerts etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Sorry chaps but this "voice of TSW" has been discussed before. As TSW is myself and steve, any voice would be representative of us, which we are certainly not happy with. We're not against people expressing their opinion of course, and if you all want to organise something as a group of fans and write to the echo, using the forum as the medium to put together that opinion then thats great, but not if its representative of saintsweb, sorry. I was just about to point that out myself. Baj and Steve will suddenly become the new Illingsworth and Chorley, and that is unfair on them to say the least unless they want the spotlight, which from the previus discussion they don't. Or Bring back SRS/BBP back into the fold as our spokesman and out loud mouth the loud mouths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 It is possible to have a view on something without seeing it first hand.... e.g. The Iraq War Japanese Whaling England's performance at the South African World Cup Chris de Burgh Concerts etc You can have a view on anything but that doesn't mean your opinion counts for anything - for example my opinion of Chris de Burgh concerts means jack **** because I don't go to any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 TSW and Danny are? Sorry I don't know but I was refused membership of the Inner Circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 WE could offer the Echo a TSW Whinge column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Great Idea, i propose that we wear berets and beards when meeting.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 WE could offer the Echo a TSW Whinge column. TSW- SaintsWeb If you don't know who Danny is, then i'm not sure it is for anyone to put it on the forum without his say so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Great Idea, i propose that we wear berets and beards when meeting.. and a pillow case on our heads with holes only for our eyes? Maybe a secret handshake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 You can have a view on anything but that doesn't mean your opinion counts for anything - for example my opinion of Chris de Burgh concerts means jack **** because I don't go to any. What did you think of England's performance in the World Cup in South Africa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 and a pillow case on our heads with holes only for our eyes? Maybe a secret handshake? No, i genuinely think its a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 What did you think of England's performance in the World Cup in South Africa? They were rubbish, I can tell that because I watched all the games live on TV. If I hadn't have watched them, I wouldn't be able to give you an informed opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 TSW- SaintsWeb If you don't know who Danny is, then i'm not sure it is for anyone to put it on the forum without his say so? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 17 September, 2010 Author Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Danny is Dan Kerrins aka an echo reporter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Great Idea, i propose that we wear berets and beards when meeting.. Too slow. See post 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Problem is, loads of people on here don't even go to the games. probably in the same % as SISA but TSW has over 100 times more members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 17 September, 2010 Share Posted 17 September, 2010 Sorry chaps but this "voice of TSW" has been discussed before. As TSW is myself and steve, any voice would be representative of us, which we are certainly not happy with. We're not against people expressing their opinion of course, and if you all want to organise something as a group of fans and write to the echo, using the forum as the medium to put together that opinion then thats great, but not if its representative of saintsweb, sorry. Wrong. All it needs to do is express the results of properly conducted polls on TSW. It should be based on the opinions of hundreds and not the few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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