Tamesaint Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 The Sturrock incident is an interesting one and I agree that, with the non-reappointment of Hoddle, it led to our demise. That said what would you have done with the Sturrock situation? We didn't want to lose Beattie and he was one of the instigators I understand. If it had just been Dodd I think Lowe would have told him to jog on, but when your fans favorite, top scoring, multi million pound asset kicks up a stink, it is a difficult call. We could easily be having the "why did Lowe let Beattie leave over Sturrock" discussion instead! Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't I'm afraid. Maybe... but Lowe was being paid handsomely at the time to make these decisions and he made the wrong one in this case. Beattie did leave - just 3 months after Sturrock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 Here is a few comparisons for you based on the nine years pre Lowe and the nine years post Lowe: Pre: 12th, 13th, 7th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 18th, 10th, 17th. Post: 16th, 12th, 17th, 15th, 10th, 11th, 8th, 12th, relegation. Our last four years before relegation we had an average position of 10th place (including a cup final) whereas the last four years before Lowe took over we had an average position of 16th place. Riding high yes but under Lowe, downhill yes but only since relegation. What on earth was relegation then, FFS ? A forgeone conclusion beyond his control ? How you can say the "downhill" is only since relegaion is utterly bizarre, but truly in keeping with a Luvvie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 In the first season under Wilde and co wages and other costs were reduced and our net debt was lowered to a position it hadn't been for years. The following seasons overspend by Hone & co was stupid, but if you think the reason we are in this financial crisis is because of that period, then you are seriously deluded. You're blaming all our problems on a one off overspend of a few million (which certainly didn't help matters), but conveniently ignoring the calamatous effects of relegation and failure to get repromoted that turned this Club upside down (as it has done to many other clubs around the country). The crisis comes about from having income of about £13m and a structure that can't run on that level of income. Despite making cuts, Lowe and Wilde are still running us at a very big loss. What do you think Lowe's Plan B was all about, and why would we have to implement it? And a very big hangover from that overspend is also the fact that big salaries were paid to players on long contracts. A double whammy of money being gambled on the siging fees and then on the running costs. At least 2mil a year we cannot afford on wages for players who we could not move which is then added to the reduced crowds. A double whammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 And a very big hangover from that overspend is also the fact that big salaries were paid to players on long contracts. A double whammy of money being gambled on the siging fees and then on the running costs. Totally agree and it's perplexing why we gave someone like Euell a decent two year contract when we knew we would be short of cash with the parachute dropping away. It started with Rasiak being given 4 years and the biggest salary we have paid out since we were relegated. At some point it was definitley going to contribute to the problems we faced after falling out of the top flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 What on earth was relegation then, FFS ? A forgeone conclusion beyond his control ? How you can say the "downhill" is only since relegaion is utterly bizarre, but truly in keeping with a Luvvie. Thanks Alpine. I am pleased that I am not the only one totally bemused by Warwick's logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 our decline would have started years ago if it were not for MLT. Bizarrely, in the few years -about 5? without checking - directly before relegation we were finally getting rid of the perenial relegation favorites and had decent finishes. Lowe made mistakes but saying relegation is totally his fault is no fairer than saying he deserves total credit for reaching the cup final. Mixture of no MLT Svennson's injury bad luck and appointments with managers out turn - in that I mean several bigger clubs were relegated in that time and we had been punching above our weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totton Red Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 our decline would have started years ago if it were not for MLT. Bizarrely, in the few years -about 5? without checking - directly before relegation we were finally getting rid of the perenial relegation favorites and had decent finishes. Lowe made mistakes but saying relegation is totally his fault is no fairer than saying he deserves total credit for reaching the cup final. Mixture of no MLT Svennson's injury bad luck and appointments with managers out turn - in that I mean several bigger clubs were relegated in that time and we had been punching above our weight. lets put it in simple terms. The Chairman takes the money when the team is successful and is blamed when they fail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 its just easier to blame one unpopular man for everything (rather than some of it!) but doesn't neccessrily make it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 its just easier to blame one unpopular man for everything (rather than some of it!) but doesn't neccessrily make it right! But in this case, it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 When are you dribblers going to give it a bleedin' rest? We had season after season of steady improvement after 1997 when we turned from perennial relegation fodder (remember the gag about "struggling Southampton" that Dave Jones made on his appointment) to solid, solid, solid mid table, with an FA Cup final shaped cherry on top. All that, was during the evil old PLC. Love the way that people describe finishing eighth in the table as a "our decline". :rolleyes: Yes, we got relegated. Boo hoo. Who hasn't been? We're not immune to relegation, children, never were, never have been (even before our "decline" when we dominated British football like a collosus in 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 and 1995) and never will be. Get the **** over it. CB YOU are a Fool - read the question set. Then, please have the audacity to intelligently examine what is written and constructively criticise. CB - Lowe IS and HAS BEEN the problen at this club. For what he is and what he represents. Take it on the chin and swallow you're own pride and ideas - you're dull mate. I'm afraid I am bored of those holocaust denyers like you my friend. It is a fact... since Lowe arrived we fell...continue to fall ... and I predict (without too much difficulty) a continue slump. FACT. FACT. FACT. Lowe = failure. FACT. Now ... give me a better - more intelligent reason for the reason for the decline of this once Premiership club and I'll agree with you. Until then - keep telling everyone the Jews were never gassed and global warming is a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 Global warming is a myth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 our decline would have started years ago if it were not for MLT. Bizarrely, in the few years -about 5? without checking - directly before relegation we were finally getting rid of the perenial relegation favorites and had decent finishes. Lowe made mistakes but saying relegation is totally his fault is no fairer than saying he deserves total credit for reaching the cup final. Mixture of no MLT Svennson's injury bad luck and appointments with managers out turn - in that I mean several bigger clubs were relegated in that time and we had been punching above our weight. Agree with the first two points,but "Bad luck and appointments with managers?" Who appointed those managers? After WGS left why was Sturrock appointed?Lets face it nobody couldve guessed Lowe would pick him.Was it because he was cheaper than anyone else? Then when Wigley was made up to head coach,everyone but Lowe could see he was way out of his depth,but because he was another cheap option,Lowe persevered far too long. Lowes penny pinching and false economy is the reason we are where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Chuckle Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 The 2-0 boxing day defeat away at Fulham in 2003. We were 4th at the time but things just started to unravel after this. 3-0 FA Cup home defeat to Newcastle, Strachan Leaving, Killer getting injured etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offix Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 1. The departure, through lack of backing from Ru**rt, of WGS 2. The departure, through lack of backing from Ru**rt, of Luggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 The Sturrock incident is an interesting one and I agree that, with the non-reappointment of Hoddle, it led to our demise. That said what would you have done with the Sturrock situation? We didn't want to lose Beattie and he was one of the instigators I understand. If it had just been Dodd I think Lowe would have told him to jog on, but when your fans favorite, top scoring, multi million pound asset kicks up a stink, it is a difficult call. We could easily be having the "why did Lowe let Beattie leave over Sturrock" discussion instead! Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't I'm afraid. Why is this myth still put around..? You are mistaken and ill informed. Sturrock himself has said that James Beattie was nothing to do with his removal. He always got good respect from Beatts. Under Sturrock, Beatts played some excellent football. Good performance doesn't usually happen if you don't respect your manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFM Posted 12 October, 2008 Share Posted 12 October, 2008 When are you dribblers going to give it a bleedin' rest? We had season after season of steady improvement after 1997 when we turned from perennial relegation fodder (remember the gag about "struggling Southampton" that Dave Jones made on his appointment) to solid, solid, solid mid table, with an FA Cup final shaped cherry on top. All that, was during the evil old PLC. Love the way that people describe finishing eighth in the table as a "our decline". :rolleyes: Yes, we got relegated. Boo hoo. Who hasn't been? We're not immune to relegation, children, never were, never have been (even before our "decline" when we dominated British football like a collosus in 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 and 1995) and never will be. Get the **** over it. Well I rarely agree with much you say CBF, and today is no exception, but I do enjoy the way you write it :-) When, though, are we allowed to be a little bit ****ed off with the massive decline in every aspect of our club in your opinion? Do we just plummet and plummet saying "get the xxxx over it" for ever? Can't be be a tiny bit f'ing disappointed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puff the magic dragon Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 The 2-0 boxing day defeat away at Fulham in 2003. We were 4th at the time but things just started to unravel after this. 3-0 FA Cup home defeat to Newcastle, Strachan Leaving, Killer getting injured etc etc Yep, it was around this time that things started going wrong. Strachan had inherrited a good team from Hoddle and he'd got lucky with an easy run in the cup. Also with Chris Marsden he had an anchorman in midfield who ran the show. Marsden then left and Saints started resembling Coventry. Strachan could see what was on the cards and got out at just the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puff the magic dragon Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 It might sound stupid but Chris Marden was our new Matt Le Tissier. He was like Steven Gerrard is to Liverpool and Frank Lampard is to chelsea. OK he wasn't in their league skill wise, but he could run the show. Since he left he's never been replaced and as they say it's all history from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 We flirted with relegation a number of times, for me our downfall started when Lowe failed to back WGS in 2003. That is unquestionably the key moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 If I am not permitted to say when Askham sold up to get his filthy lucre, turn us into a PLC and bring Lowe, then I would have to say this too. We were at a massive cross-roads, riding high, getting media attention, and Lowe did this. And its been downhill ever since. What on earth was relegation then, FFS ? A forgeone conclusion beyond his control ? How you can say the "downhill" is only since relegaion is utterly bizarre, but truly in keeping with a Luvvie. Please see your post above as you initially started out, riding high, media attention, Lowe did this this and it's been downhill ever since. My 'FACTS' which you have ignored show we did better since Lowe arrived than when you posted as "it's been downhill ever since". Good to see you diverted from the real stats and carried on from your initial false account of your original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 When are you dribblers going to give it a bleedin' rest? I'll give it a rest when Lowe, Cowen, the Quisling Wilde and all the other charlatans are gone from the club forever. In the meantime, if anybody asks who was responsible for our decline, then the people who I've mentioned above are the prime suspects. It is not a foregone conclusion that we would have been relegated had other people been running the club this past decade. That is pure conjecture on your part and assists your viewpoint that relegation was inevitable at some stage, so useless to moan about it. Either Lowe's board were not actively looking for the external investment we needed, (they certainly didn't seem to have the money themselves) or they were useless at attracting it. Whichever it was, that was a reason that there was never any money available to invest in the quality of player who would have made a difference, allied to the disruption caused by the inability of Lowe and the board to either pick the right manager and then to keep him. Then of course, the reverse takeover made us a PLC and that has hampered our chances of a takeover currently. The apple started to go rotten immediately the maggots got into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 Thanks Alpine. I am pleased that I am not the only one totally bemused by Warwick's logic. In case you missed it alpine said we were riding high before the takeover, I posted the nine years league positions before and after Lowe took over to show whether we were riding high as he quoted against what we achieved when he came to power. If you are bemused then you must find it difficult to read facts as I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 Riding high yes but under Lowe, downhill yes but only since relegation. You said it. No-once else. Dont EVER lecture me about facts ever again, hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 Please see your post above as you initially started out, riding high, media attention, Lowe did this this and it's been downhill ever since. My 'FACTS' which you have ignored show we did better since Lowe arrived than when you posted as "it's been downhill ever since". Good to see you diverted from the real stats and carried on from your initial false account of your original post. You obviously didnt read that properly. I was agrewing with Whizzpop that it was all downhill since Bridge was sold.. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 You said it. No-once else. Dont EVER lecture me about facts ever again, hypocrite. How about replying to the rest of the post which give the real facts. These are the real facts which you NEVER answer to. Hypocrite? Look in the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 You obviously didnt read that properly. I was agrewing with Whizzpop that it was all downhill since Bridge was sold.. :rolleyes: I read it perfectly, perhaps you need lessons in posting correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 Agree with the first two points,but "Bad luck and appointments with managers?" Who appointed those managers?After WGS left why was Sturrock appointed?Lets face it nobody couldve guessed Lowe would pick him.Was it because he was cheaper than anyone else? Then when Wigley was made up to head coach,everyone but Lowe could see he was way out of his depth,but because he was another cheap option,Lowe persevered far too long. Lowes penny pinching and false economy is the reason we are where we are. sorry i didn't make that clear, but that is what I meant -Lowe appointed badly and deserves blame for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 That is unquestionably the key moment. I would agree with that. RL said after the cup final that we were now ready to move on to the next tier. He did not back WGS with the cash to buy better players and WGS moved on. The rest, as they say , is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 What planet are you on saintwarwick ? I stated that I agreed - the decline started when Bridge was sold. You came back with a load of final positions as some sort of rebuttal of my coment (odd, we got relegated the end of the season Bridge was sold, so what relevance they have for my statement is baffling) and stated the decline started after we were relegated. So, not only is your response to my comment complete lunacy, but so is your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 When you look at teams that have been established in the Premier and subsequently get relegated it is normally down to injuries and the manager, normally being changed. At Saints we had both of these with virtually an acceptable first team out injured. If we had just hung on to Svennson I am sure that would have been enough, but our luck was out that year. The Sturrock situation was a pity, but even the man himself concedes he was partly to blame. At the end of the day it was the appointment of Sturrock, Wigley and Satchel that cost us our Premier position and for that Lowe has to take responsibility. Satchel failed us badly, so much time, even points and resources not available to the other teams and he failed abjectly. We should have avoided that one, but could we have gone on indefinitely avoiding the drop when adversity came our way? Just look at the teams in the Premier today who have any chance of staying in there even medium term. There is one very consistent factor which sticks out like a sore thumb. They all have independent financial backing we could never dream of at Saints. It just requires that well timed bit of adversity and your number is up for clubs without that umbrella. Falling from the Premier was bad enough, but what has subsequently happened to us in the CCC is stupidity beyond belief. There should be no reason we cannot establish ourselves in the CCC and eventually get another crack at the Premier, but our whole existence is even in doubt now. In comparison to your average CCC club, we recieved more that £30M in from players fess (even after Lowe went) and additionally we had £14M from parachute payments and all we managed to do was run up debts greater than any other club in the CCC. Our relegation season was littered by if's, but's and bad decisions. But they are not on a par with the idiotic goings on whilst we have been in the CCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 When you look at teams that have been established in the Premier and subsequently get relegated it is normally down to injuries and the manager, normally being changed. At Saints we had both of these with virtually an acceptable first team out injured. If we had just hung on to Svennson I am sure that would have been enough, but our luck was out that year. The Sturrock situation was a pity, but even the man himself concedes he was partly to blame. At the end of the day it was the appointment of Sturrock, Wigley and Satchel that cost us our Premier position and for that Lowe has to take responsibility. Satchel failed us badly, so much time, even points and resources not available to the other teams and he failed abjectly. We should have avoided that one, but could we have gone on indefinitely avoiding the drop when adversity came our way? Just look at the teams in the Premier today who have any chance of staying in there even medium term. There is one very consistent factor which sticks out like a sore thumb. They all have independent financial backing we could never dream of at Saints. It just requires that well timed bit of adversity and your number is up for clubs without that umbrella. Falling from the Premier was bad enough, but what has subsequently happened to us in the CCC is stupidity beyond belief. There should be no reason we cannot establish ourselves in the CCC and eventually get another crack at the Premier, but our whole existence is even in doubt now. In comparison to your average CCC club, we recieved more that £30M in from players fess (even after Lowe went) and additionally we had £14M from parachute payments and all we managed to do was run up debts greater than any other club in the CCC. Our relegation season was littered by if's, but's and bad decisions. But they are not on a par with the idiotic goings on whilst we have been in the CCC. Don't be silly. Bournemouth are in a much worse position than us and I don't see them disappearing yet. We are nowhere near ceasing to exist, it wouldn't happen so quit scaremongering (again!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 For me it was one event before and that was sacking Paul Sturrock. His team put in two of the best Saints away performances I have ever seen at Wolves and Man City. The guy had potential and had the board backed him instead of individual personalities on the playing staff then there would have been No Wigley, no Red**** and possibly no relegation! I disagree, whilst sacking Sturrock two games in was dumb beyond belief, if we had appointed a proper manager (even saggy face) at that point we would have stayed up IMO. It was the Wigley farce that saw us relegated, too many points dropped at home to ****e teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 1. The departure, through lack of backing from Ru**rt, of WGS 2. The departure, through lack of backing from Ru**rt, of Luggy You're right on number 2, but you're wrong on number 1. Le god knows I have no real time for Rupert Lowe, but even he deserves to have his record set straight. I have my copy of Gordon Strachan: The Biography in front of me. In it, WGS describes signing a two and a half year contract for Saints, and promising his wife that he would take a break from football thereafter. He'd only taken the job at Saints because it was so tempting. There was no argument with Lowe; in fact Strachan called Himself and Rupert, the Odd Couple, because they oddly worked well together. Strachan did also cite the need for a hip operation, but it was the original agreement with his wife that stopped him from renewing his contract. Lowe practically pleaded with WGS to stay and renew, but he'd made his promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 I disagree, whilst sacking Sturrock two games in was dumb beyond belief, if we had appointed a proper manager (even saggy face) at that point we would have stayed up IMO. It was the Wigley farce that saw us relegated, too many points dropped at home to ****e teams. At the same time, two more points would have kept us up. Winning just one of the games we threw away under Redknapp (Everton, Villa, Boro - all at home) would have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 when you look at the teams who have been relegated before and since we need to realise that we did not have a god given right to premiership football. We should have stayed up and could have, but equally we could have easily been relegated before. There have been mistakes by management, players, bad luck etc and of course Lowe has made big mistakes. It is difficult to put things down to one decision, the previuosly made points on bad management are true, as are good decisions like WGS and Hoddle -neither obviuos appointments at the time. As a club our size we could sit anywhere from around 8th in premiership to top 8 of CCC. We got relegated, it happens, and the rest of the country probably thought it was overdue. A play off finish again probably would not have surprised the rest of the footballing world. However, we should not be a team struggling to cpmpete in the CCC -both footballing and financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 We flirted with relegation a number of times, for me our downfall started when Lowe failed to back WGS in 2003. ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's it, I've had enough and can keep my silence no longer. WGS didn't leave because of perceived lack of investment or cos he had to have an operation. He left because the ginger one couldn't keep his **** in his pants and his wife found out and insisted he must leave the area. END OF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's it, I've had enough and can keep my silence no longer. WGS didn't leave because of perceived lack of investment or cos he had to have an operation. He left because the ginger one couldn't keep his **** in his pants and his wife found out and insisted he must leave the area. END OF! :shock: An 'allegedly' would be wise IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's it, I've had enough and can keep my silence no longer. WGS didn't leave because of perceived lack of investment or cos he had to have an operation. He left because the ginger one couldn't keep his **** in his pants and his wife found out and insisted he must leave the area. END OF! ... and your source is??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 You're right on number 2, but you're wrong on number 1. Le god knows I have no real time for Rupert Lowe, but even he deserves to have his record set straight. I have my copy of Gordon Strachan: The Biography in front of me. In it, WGS describes signing a two and a half year contract for Saints, and promising his wife that he would take a break from football thereafter. He'd only taken the job at Saints because it was so tempting. There was no argument with Lowe; in fact Strachan called Himself and Rupert, the Odd Couple, because they oddly worked well together. Strachan did also cite the need for a hip operation, but it was the original agreement with his wife that stopped him from renewing his contract. Lowe practically pleaded with WGS to stay and renew, but he'd made his promise. St Landrew, it was a little more than that, see below... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's it, I've had enough and can keep my silence no longer. WGS didn't leave because of perceived lack of investment or cos he had to have an operation. He left because the ginger one couldn't keep his **** in his pants and his wife found out and insisted he must leave the area. END OF! Allegedly. My source is someone who knows the girl. She's quite infamous in the area as a high class Escort (ever go to Piano Bar or Dock Gate 4 and you may know her) and used to do a lot of favours for Agustin and his brother. Turns out 'someone' went round to Agustin's whilst she was there with him and his brother and asked if he could have a go. Of course, this may not be 100% correct, but I do trust my source, but that is my understanding and certainly makes some sense of the situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 In case you missed it alpine said we were riding high before the takeover, I posted the nine years league positions before and after Lowe took over to show whether we were riding high as he quoted against what we achieved when he came to power. If you are bemused then you must find it difficult to read facts as I posted. Were you the person who asked Jackie Kennedy whether apart from the shooting did she enjoy her visit to Dallas?? Your devotion to the "facts" ignores the "insignificant" fact that we got relegated under Lowe. I think that this is of much more relevance to the original post on this thread than comparing the mean average of 9 years before Lowe and 9 years after Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 St Landrew, it was a little more than that... Well... whatever WGS's reasons for leaving Saints, it wasn't a perceived lack of backing by Lowe, that made him go. Can't believe I'm actually bothering to defend RL here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 The more informed among us know it was when they sacked the Saintettes. Things have got progressively worse ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 Were you the person who asked Jackie Kennedy whether apart from the shooting did she enjoy her visit to Dallas?? Your devotion to the "facts" ignores the "insignificant" fact that we got relegated under Lowe. I think that this is of much more relevance to the original post on this thread than comparing the mean average of 9 years before Lowe and 9 years after Lowe. your comparison doesn't work on any level. Far to simplistic and personal assessment. Every chairman (who was ours in 74? think Ted Bates was on the board?) who is in post when relegated is a total failure? Ridiculous. Yes he is worthy of blame but your ignoring the other facts is biased - if its that simple give him the total credit for the cup final? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Rabbit Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 After the FA cup final for me.... We flirted with a top 5 finish that season...it didn't finish that way, but we still managed 8th..nearly won the cup and were in Europe the next. We then proceeded to sell our best player for £7.5 million and used £3 million on Phillips. Don't forget we made a stack full that year on TV money...plus every cup match was at home......prize money and merchandise... It basically shouted that we didn't want to improve....there would never be the investment to take us to the next level...and over the last 5 years we then proceeded to sell some absoultely ****ing excellent players rather than building a squad... Bridge, Beattie, Crouch, Niemi, Walcott, Bale, Jones, Baird, Davies...etc..about £55 million quid there over the last few seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graymalkin33 Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 Was the day that some one at Saints leaked the news that Strachan was leaving at the end of the season. I think it was mid January in Strachans last season. Then he and the team seemed to loose impetus and there was a steady decline from that day forward leading to him resigning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 Was the day that some one at Saints leaked the news that Strachan was leaving at the end of the season. I think it was mid January in Strachans last season. Then he and the team seemed to loose impetus and there was a steady decline from that day forward leading to him resigning. Allegedly, that was Chris Kamara, who blew the whistle, after a private conversation with WGS. Nobody at Saints knew other than RL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 The more informed among us know it was when they sacked the Saintettes. Things have got progressively worse ever since. I'm glad I'm not the only one who spotted this link. Bring back the Saintettes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 Why is this myth still put around..? You are mistaken and ill informed. Sturrock himself has said that James Beattie was nothing to do with his removal. He always got good respect from Beatts. Under Sturrock, Beatts played some excellent football. Good performance doesn't usually happen if you don't respect your manager. Mistaken and ill informed by this forum's predecessor, for that is where I picked up that tidbit - no doubt suffixed with FACT for extra impact. ... So that MUST make it true! Who were the players that wielded the axe then? ps. I agree with the comment regarding the Saintettes, and also when the mascots stopped hurdling the advertising hoardings. Key points in our history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 13 October, 2008 Share Posted 13 October, 2008 Mistaken and ill informed by this forum's predecessor, for that is where I picked up that tidbit - no doubt suffixed with FACT for extra impact. ... So that MUST make it true! Who were the players that wielded the axe then? ps. I agree with the comment regarding the Saintettes, and also when the mascots stopped hurdling the advertising hoardings. Key points in our history. It's OK, I wasn't having a go at you personally, AP. That's not my style, and it's outside of the forum rules anyway. But this myth has been pushed around so many times, and so many people have corrected others, that I thought it was actually dead and buried. Nobody, apart from Sturrock, actually knows for sure, outside of the Boardroom. Sturrock has come out to say it wasn't Beatts, because the player was getting so much personal flak. All we can go on is rumour, and who would normally be in a position to say something. That person would be the club/team captain and the coaches, which is why Jason Dodd also came in for a lot of criticism at the time, although the coaching staff escaped any rumour. Doddsy is probably held in higher esteem than Beatts, by the fans, due to Dodd's loyalty and long service as a Saint. He also tended to conduct himself better in public, according to some fans. So I don't accuse anyone. I just know who didn't, and the only person who we can be reasonably confident of that is James Beattie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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