A team of players produced by our academy in the last ten years.

[norwaysaint]

With all of thid talk of how great our academy has been:

 

 

Should be able to make a decent team, albeit with a a weak central midfield and a crap goalie. This century only,

 

some possible candidates:

 

Poke

Bevan

Baird

M. Mills

Williamson

Cranie

Bale

Lancashire

Surman

James

J. Mills

gobern

Gillett

McDonald

Lallana

dyer

Gobern

Walcott

Blackstock

Best

Oxo

Arron Davies

McGoldrick

Thomson

White

[ssaints]

I thin Brian Howard could just about sneak in too, he left us about 10 years ago. I guess Matt Oakley is too far outside the 10 year bracket but deserves a mention.

[Golden Balls]

Wayne Bridge

[Golden Balls]

Ranger at Newcastle

[ssaints]

Tim Sparv might be worth a shout too. He seems to be growing into a better player since he left.

[Smirking_Saint]

Just goes to show that Cortese's plan of having at least 80% of the team brought up from the academy is not as far fetched as many seem to believe. Can you imagine if we hadn't fallen down the leagues with such acceleration ?

 

A few well thought out signings and we would have been well up there IMO.

 

Hopefully we will be able to keep a hold of the next bunch of youngsters.

[saintsdan]

Mike Williamson didn't come through our youth system.

[Smirking_Saint]

Been a long time since we produced a good striker though, or keeper. Hope that can change.

 

I'd just love to see Bale, Lallana and Walcott in the same attack, behind a main striker. There'd be no stopping it.

 

Where does Sparv play now? I thought he was excellent in the youth team of Walcott and co. Big strong midfielder that made a nice change to the usual weedy little players we often produce.

 

Consistent player for gronigen in the dutch leagues.

[NorthamSteve]

I thin Brian Howard could just about sneak in too, he left us about 10 years ago. I guess Matt Oakley is too far outside the 10 year bracket but deserves a mention.

 

don't think you can have Oakley, considering he started playing for us in the 90's

[Griffo]

There's a similar thread to this on Football Forums at the moment.

[Lighthouse]

Poke

 

Baird

M. Mills

Cranie

J. Mills

 

Lallana

Sparv

Surman

Bale

 

AOC

Walcott

 

About the best 11 I can come up with, with Dyer, Dex, Best and DMG the best of the rest.

[Chez]

Dexter Blackstock was bought for £275,000 from Oxford, admittedly at a young age, but stretching it a bit to say he came through our youth system.

[Chez]

Cranie

do we have to include that judas ****?

[The9]

Just goes to show that Cortese's plan of having at least 80% of the team brought up from the academy is not as far fetched as many seem to believe. Can you imagine if we hadn't fallen down the leagues with such acceleration ?

 

A few well thought out signings and we would have been well up there IMO.

 

Hopefully we will be able to keep a hold of the next bunch of youngsters.

 

It is QUITE far-fetched, you only have to look at our Championship relegation season to look at what happens when you try to bring too many kids through at the same time without sufficient experience on the pitch to guide them.

 

Assuming we could get maybe 2 or 3 new stars into the side every season (and that's a BIG assumption at Premier League level), it would still take 3-4 years to get more than 8 home grown players into the team regularly, and that's then discounting the need for pros to provide on-pitch guidance even if all of them are successful, and even more questionably, assuming we've got the players with that ability in the ranks to begin with.

 

More likely would be to get maybe 4 or 5 home-grown kids and the rest of the side balanced out with experienced pros - looking at the current team, Lallana has about 3 years' experience, would you consider him knowledgeable enough to mentor someone yet ? The likes of Richardson, Chaplow and Butterfield are in a much better position to give feedback at a Premier League level - and of course positional tips vary by player.

 

The same goes for the squad as a whole, every young player needs someone to get their guidance from, it all takes time, and I'd be more inclined to think that we'd need to be established at the top level for a good 3 or 4 years before the Prem-ready kids were coming through the academy at a rate of more than the current "1 every 2 years".

[Colinjb]

Dexter Blackstock was bought for £275,000 from Oxford, admittedly at a young age, but stretching it a bit to say he came through our youth system.

 

The same could be said for Theo. He was purchased from Swindon.

 

On that logic i'm happy to throw in Kenwyne Jones into the mix, we made him into a footballer after all.

[Matthew Le God]

Wayne Bridge

 

He is 30. He came through the youth system over 10 years ago.

[Pancake]

It is QUITE far-fetched, you only have to look at our Championship relegation season to look at what happens when you try to bring too many kids through at the same time without sufficient experience on the pitch to guide them.

 

He didnt say 80% kids, he said 80% home grown. Imagine Bridge had stayed, he would be home grown, but not a kid.

[The9]

Also, if you look at the progress of the kids who were actually playing in the top level Academy side circa 2003 when we were a successful Prem side, only Baird and Walcott are currently at Prem level - most of the successes are at Championship level, and there are loads who are playing below that.

 

Bale was also a young kid in that structure that long ago, but we were long gone from the Prem when he got in the side, and Surman, Best and Blackstock have all had a whiff of top-level football either with Saints or after leaving, but they don't look likely to stick there.

 

So even when we had the infrastructure in place and a first team relatively successful at the top level we still didn't actually produce much in the way of enduring Premier League talent, it's a big jump from that to a team of home-grown kids coming through.

[Smirking_Saint]

It is QUITE far-fetched, you only have to look at our Championship relegation season to look at what happens when you try to bring too many kids through at the same time without sufficient experience on the pitch to guide them.

 

Assuming we could get maybe 2 or 3 new stars into the side every season (and that's a BIG assumption at Premier League level), it would still take 3-4 years to get more than 8 home grown players into the team regularly, and that's then discounting the need for pros to provide on-pitch guidance even if all of them are successful, and even more questionably, assuming we've got the players with that ability in the ranks to begin with.

 

More likely would be to get maybe 4 or 5 home-grown kids and the rest of the side balanced out with experienced pros - looking at the current team, Lallana has about 3 years' experience, would you consider him knowledgeable enough to mentor someone yet ? The likes of Richardson, Chaplow and Butterfield are in a much better position to give feedback at a Premier League level - and of course positional tips vary by player.

 

The same goes for the squad as a whole, every young player needs someone to get their guidance from, it all takes time, and I'd be more inclined to think that we'd need to be established at the top level for a good 3 or 4 years before the Prem-ready kids were coming through the academy at a rate of more than the current "1 every 2 years".

 

I am not saying it is a quick thing, and i am not saying that there is going to be some sort of massive upturn in the amount of first 11 ready kids coming through the ranks. what i am saying is the academy is obviously doing something right and not only that but the whole ethos of the club seems to be correct now that Cortese has said what he has said.

 

I completely agree with you by the way, a youth focused team will very rarely if ever be a winning one, especially not in some sort of promotion push sort of way. You will need to have young players mixed in with older experienced heads and whats more the new blood so to speak will not be able to compete week in week out, probably not even to the extent that AOC has managed. It is not often that a 17 year old cements a first 11 spot so quickly.

 

What i am saying is that I don't think it is so far fetched to say get atleast 50% of the team comprised of players that have excelled in the academy but i agree it will never be an overnight thing, it will be a process of 1 a year if that, sometimes more slowly being integrated. Yes of course this isn't going to happen before we (if we) make it into the prem again but once there i think it is perfectly realistic IMO.

[Smirking_Saint]

He didnt say 80% kids, he said 80% home grown. Imagine Bridge had stayed, he would be home grown, but not a kid.

 

Exactly

[Smirking_Saint]

Also, if you look at the progress of the kids who were actually playing in the top level Academy side circa 2003 when we were a successful Prem side, only Baird and Walcott are currently at Prem level - most of the successes are at Championship level, and there are loads who are playing below that.

 

Bale was also a young kid in that structure that long ago, but we were long gone from the Prem when he got in the side, and Surman, Best and Blackstock have all had a whiff of top-level football either with Saints or after leaving, but they don't look likely to stick there.

 

So even when we had the infrastructure in place and a first team relatively successful at the top level we still didn't actually produce much in the way of enduring Premier League talent, it's a big jump from that to a team of home-grown kids coming through.

 

We managed to nurture a lot more than many premier league clubs however, and if we hadn't fallen into such a decline who is to say we would not have been able to produce more ?

 

Georges Prost left and i would hazard a guess the funding bottomed out when we were beginning to scrimp and save, i would imagine we would have had one or two more success stories aswell had we have stayed afloat rather then being swept down the river to league one.

[The9]

He didnt say 80% kids, he said 80% home grown. Imagine Bridge had stayed, he would be home grown, but not a kid.

 

Fair enough, so let's have a look at how many Sotonians have played for Saints in the past 30 years, and the birthplaces of the kids currently in the academy to see how realistic THAT is without embarking on a policy of signing locals rather than necessarily the best players for that position... of course then there's a question about whether you mean the Premier League 'home grown' definition which is a much wider category.

 

As a quick Google, Oscar Gobern, Steve Basham and Scott Bevan would qualify - but I'm going to have to leave that list up to someone else !

[Smirking_Saint]

Fair enough, so let's have a look at how many Sotonians have played for Saints in the past 30 years, and the birthplaces of the kids currently in the academy to see how realistic THAT is without embarking on a policy of signing locals rather than necessarily the best players for that position... of course then there's a question about whether you mean the Premier League 'home grown' definition which is a much wider category.

 

As a quick Google, Oscar Gobern, Steve Basham and Scott Bevan would qualify - but I'm going to have to leave that list up to someone else !

 

'Home grown talent' as in the premier leagues standards the9

 

I don't know many successful footballing academies that will only support players in its local area.

[The9]

I am not saying it is a quick thing, and i am not saying that there is going to be some sort of massive upturn in the amount of first 11 ready kids coming through the ranks. what i am saying is the academy is obviously doing something right and not only that but the whole ethos of the club seems to be correct now that Cortese has said what he has said.

 

I completely agree with you by the way, a youth focused team will very rarely if ever be a winning one, especially not in some sort of promotion push sort of way. You will need to have young players mixed in with older experienced heads and whats more the new blood so to speak will not be able to compete week in week out, probably not even to the extent that AOC has managed. It is not often that a 17 year old cements a first 11 spot so quickly.

 

What i am saying is that I don't think it is so far fetched to say get atleast 50% of the team comprised of players that have excelled in the academy but i agree it will never be an overnight thing, it will be a process of 1 a year if that, sometimes more slowly being integrated. Yes of course this isn't going to happen before we (if we) make it into the prem again but once there i think it is perfectly realistic IMO.

 

It's also about hanging onto those players when they get successful - it's fine "imagining Bridge had stayed" but he left in a close season when we were a decent top-half Prem side with a UEFA Cup appearance to look forward to !

 

Generally though I think we're in agreement. It's not going to be easy, but it is something that might be achieved - I just don't think it's necessarily a goal to be aspiring to unless the youth recruitment rules change in the opposite direction to the way they seem to be going, which would make bringing your local players through a significant factor in success.

 

As it stands at the moment, the Prem are trying to deregulate the regional rules - i.e. protecting themselves against teams outside the Prem with successful youth policies by hoovering up the talent from everywhere and stemming the likelihood of talented players coming from other teams' academies very early on. If Chelsea sign the best 5,000 kids from wherever in the UK on the off-chance that 2 of them will be Champions League level, where does that leave clubs who aren't able to offer a Premier League opportunity ? Waiting for drop outs rather than being able to develop them from youth themselves, that's where.

Edited 25 January, 2011 by The9

[The9]

'Home grown talent' as in the premier leagues standards the9

 

I don't know many successful footballing academies that will only support players in its local area.

 

Athletic Bilbao ?

[Smirking_Saint]

It's also about hanging onto those players when they get successful - it's fine "imagining Bridge had stayed" but he left in a close season when we were a decent top-half Prem side with a UEFA Cup appearance to look forward to !

 

Generally though I think we're in agreement. It's not going to be easy, but it is something that might be achieved - I just don't think it's necessarily a goal to be aspiring to unless the youth recruitment rules change in the opposite direction to the way they seem to be going, which would make bringing your local players through a significant factor in success.

 

Yeah i agree in reality i think, its never going to be easy and perhaps just perhaps if we had stayed in the Prem then we may have seen a bit more success with the likes of Bale and Walcott staying maybe 1 or 2 more seasons but in reality you are right, they would have gone on to bigger and better things. But its all reletive, because in that scenario we should have recieved a much larger transfer fee that we would have been able to plough back into the team.

 

I understand what you are saying about local players but in reality that just deosn't work, plus now with the new 25 man squad rule you need 4 players at the club that have been trained by the club (reletively easy in reality). Say these rules change to 8 ? Also it just makes English players prices rise, and seeing as we already have a decent youth set up even if these players are sold we should recieve greater income for them.

 

I agree on the fact that it should never be the ultimate goal so to speak, but i still think putting a large amount of emphisis on the youth academy, especially one that seemingly is able to produce the gems we do will only ever be a good thing.

[Smirking_Saint]

Athletic Bilbao ?

 

lol

 

Exactly, it is just not a realistic proposal.

 

I guess every player that plays for Hedge End is from Hedge End ?

[Window Cleaner]

Athletic Bilbao ?

 

 

Might not be considered politically correct in the UK though

[Matthew Le God]

Real Sociedad used a similar policy to Athletic Bilbao until 1989.

[The9]

Might not be considered politically correct in the UK though

 

I think we'd probably get in trouble for importing 25 basque players.

[Window Cleaner]

I think we'd probably get in trouble for importing 25 basque players.

 

You know what I meant, I think it would be considered discriminatory in most countries because only a certain group of people can apply for employment. Imagine if Southampton City Council applied a SO postcode only for job applicants, they'd be in the deep brown pretty quickly I think. Plus the last time I saw any photos of AB they were all white.

[The9]

Also it just makes English players prices rise, and seeing as we already have a decent youth set up even if these players are sold we should recieve greater income for them.

 

The whole transfer market is going to be interesting to watch in the next few seasons with the "wages as a percentage of turnover" regulations and UEFA's insistence on financial stability (LOL@Skate Cheats) as a pre-requisite of playing in European competitions, and FIFA's newly-found ability to financially administer transfer deals possibly leading to more transparency all round.

[redkeith]

As this thread has been hijacked into a 'can't win anything with kids' thread, can I try my own hijck ? ( or make a new thread Mods if you wish)

 

What was the best decade for the youth system ?

 

60's Paine Sydneham, Hollywood, Chivers,Webb

 

70's Channon, Williams, Holmes, Waldron, Andrezuski, Hebbard, Baker, Hayes

 

80's Moran, Wallace D, Wallace, Wallace Rod, Wallace Ray, Lawrence, Le Tissier, Shearer, Agboola, Puckett Baird

 

90's Kenna, Oakley Widdrington

 

00's see above

 

Think the 80 ' s would take some beating.

[The9]

You know what I meant, I think it would be considered discriminatory in most countries because only a certain group of people can apply for employment. Imagine if Southampton City Council applied a SO postcode only for job applicants, they'd be in the deep brown pretty quickly I think. Plus the last time I saw any photos of AB they were all white.

 

Actually thanks to the subjective nature of assessing player abilities and the legal minefield in PROVING the reasons behind a team's selection that any court case would raise, I think they can probably implement whatever discriminatory policies they want in their squad selection, provided they're not discriminating on those grounds in things like office jobs etc. Even Bilbao have started broadening their recruitment to include those with basque relatives or residents now, more in line with the realities of surviving in Primera Liga than any sudden disposal of tradition though.

 

It was EU employment legislation that led to the faff of a solution that currently exists regarding squad composition anyway, Platini wanted to be more militant with restrictions but legal and political mindsets regarding the free movement of trade within the EU prevented it. Don't forget that he played a sizeable chunk of his career in the "restricted to 2 foreigners per team" Italian League in the 1980s - and the problems English teams had with UEFA foreigner rules when first returning to UEFA competitions in 1990/1 compared to their unregulated heyday of the late 70s/early 80s.

[david in sweden]

Dexter Blackstock was bought for £275,000 from Oxford, admittedly at a young age, but stretching it a bit to say he came through our youth system.

 

well he was 16 when he came and over 20 when he left ...I suppose we have to define " youth system" a bit clearer...

[david in sweden]

With all of thid talk of how great our academy has been:

 

Should be able to make a decent team, albeit with a a weak central midfield and a crap goalie. This century only,

 

pure semantics, but I don't think we had an Academy as such 10 years ago..or did we ? ...youth scheme - yes !

was it RL who started it ..or ? anyway the list is quite impressive isn't it ?

[david in sweden]

Think you' missed a few.

 

As this thread has been hijacked into a 'can't win anything with kids' thread, can I try my own hijck ? ( or make a new thread Mods if you wish)

 

What was the best decade for the youth system ? also

Impressive list. but you missed a few...

 

60's Paine Sydenham, Hollywood, Chivers,Webb but you forgot Tony Godfrey and Gerry Gurr (both came aged 18) Norman Dean and Tommy Hare both played in the 65/66 promotion side but weren't Div 1 material. Mick Channon actually belongs in the 60's he debuted 1966.

 

70's Channon, Williams, Holmes, Waldron, Andrezuski, Hebbard, Baker, Hayes

also FB. Roger Fry and Bob McCarthy went from schoolboy side to first team, as did Paul Bennett, and the late Steve Mills ...and a little guy called Bobby Stokes...

 

80's Moran, Wallace D, Wallace, Wallace Rod, Wallace Ray, Lawrence, Le Tissier, Shearer, Agboola, Puckett Baird

Manny Andruzewski belongs here, as does Neil Madddison who played more games than his Geordie mate Shearer)

 

90's Kenna, Oakley, Widdrington - perhaps also Schoolboy international, Frannie Benali, and Jason Dodd who came at age 18.

00's see above

 

Think the 80 ' s would take some beating.

[SNSUN]

The more I think about this, the sadder I become that we lost so many talented youngsters.

 

I guess the team would look something like: Blayney, Baird, Crainie, Mills, Bridge, Walcott, DMG, Surman, Bale, Blackstock, Best.

 

But it's a toughie.

[SNSUN]

Dexter Blackstock was bought for £275,000 from Oxford, admittedly at a young age, but stretching it a bit to say he came through our youth system.

 

Same principal for Morgan...

[Matthew Le God]

Same principal for Morgan...

 

How is it? Blackstock played for the academy teams. Schneiderlin joined when he was already 18.

[rpb]

As this thread has been hijacked into a 'can't win anything with kids' thread, can I try my own hijck ? ( or make a new thread Mods if you wish)

 

What was the best decade for the youth system ?

 

60's Paine Sydneham, Hollywood, Chivers,Webb

 

Some great names there but we bought Webb from Leyton Orient with George O'Brien going the other way - Paine and Sydenham also made their debuts in the 50s.

[SNSUN]

How is it? Blackstock played for the academy teams. Schneiderlin joined when he was already 18.

 

I mis-read the OP, but I meant that we signed him young. TBF he wasn't ready for first team action when we got him, but we didn't have much choice in that relegation season.

 

Who signed Morgan anyway? Poortvliet?

[The9]

pure semantics, but I don't think we had an Academy as such 10 years ago..or did we ? ...youth scheme - yes !

was it RL who started it ..or ? anyway the list is quite impressive isn't it ?

 

As far as the club is concerned the "academy" is responsible for

 

"the likes of Mike Channon, Matthew Le Tissier, the Wallace brothers, Alan Shearer and Francis Benali through to Wayne Bridge, Theo Walcott and Gareth Bale in more recent seasons"

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/AcademyHistory

 

Even ignoring their convenient revisionism, I remember it being called the Academy from at least 2003 onwards, and it could have been a name change to coincide with the move to St Mary's, can't really remember, but I wouldn't be surprised if the name had been in use for over 10 years.

[The9]

I mis-read the OP, but I meant that we signed him young. TBF he wasn't ready for first team action when we got him, but we didn't have much choice in that relegation season.

 

Who signed Morgan anyway? Poortvliet?

 

Lowe, to give the obvious answer.

[The9]

Lowe, to give the obvious answer.

 

Which turns out to be right, according to this thread on 606 : http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A37744167

 

18 year old French midfielder Morgan Schneiderlin from RC Strasbourg will sign a 4 year contract with Saints today, choosing us over Pompey.

 

Also there should be a press conference later today, possibly to unveil Poortvliet or announce the retained list or both or maybe more.

 

Press conference was also mentioned on Radio Hampshire.