Roger Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 I feel that if he had played at posh we would have won. He is slow but he is very good at getting his position right so he isnt exposed. He hardly gets booked and his temperament is great. Feel that seaborne is just not good enough and we probably need a quicker stronger centre back as we dont want to rely on jaidi for ever as he is getting older. Fonte for me is not a first defender but a defender who cleans up like a claus or dave watson. Fonte is much more effective with jaidi. Any thoughts guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Shango Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 I agree, but I think given his age he can't really play every Saturday/Tuesday, hence Adkins rotating him with Seaborne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambosa75 Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 Got to start giving Martin more of a look in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 20 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 20 February, 2011 I agree, but I think given his age he can't really play every Saturday/Tuesday, hence Adkins rotating him with Seaborne. I agree but think seabornne isnt good enough. Happened to many times now. We need a new centre back like jaidi but a bit more mobile and younger. Id prefer martin now to seaborne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Stimp Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 Got to start giving Martin more of a look in. Still not quite sure why Martin hasn't been getting a look in.. he looked quite sharp at the beginning of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom8558 Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 saints's danger man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 Still not quite sure why Martin hasn't been getting a look in.. he looked quite sharp at the beginning of the season. Hasn't had a look in since Pardew was sacked. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 (edited) I feel that if he had played at posh we would have won. He is slow but he is very good at getting his position right so he isnt exposed. He hardly gets booked and his temperament is great. Feel that seaborne is just not good enough and we probably need a quicker stronger centre back as we dont want to rely on jaidi for ever as he is getting older. Fonte for me is not a first defender but a defender who cleans up like a claus or dave watson. Fonte is much more effective with jaidi. Any thoughts guys? We'd have conceded about 8 if Jaidi had played at Peterborough. Seaborne got done for pace chasing Mackail-Smith, Jaidi wouldn't even have been near enough after the first two steps to be considered "defending". He's much better against immobile lumps of target men. Edited 20 February, 2011 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 20 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 20 February, 2011 We'd have conceded about 8 if Jaidi had played at Peterborough. I really dont agree on that mate sorry. I think his positioning would have been a lot better than cborne. He wouldnt have given away stupid penalty either for me. Seaborne had a shocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 I really dont agree on that mate sorry. I think his positioning would have been a lot better than cborne. He wouldnt have given away stupid penalty either for me. Seaborne had a shocker. Actually the side Seaborne was playing against played well. Fonte wasn't exactly glorious there either, though he didn't get exposed - but that could be down to the roles they were taking on and who they were meant to be marking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Marsden = Genius Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 Got to start giving Martin more of a look in. This. It should be Fonte and Martin first choice everytime. Cant believe hes not getting games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 This. It should be Fonte and Martin first choice everytime. Cant believe hes not getting games. Ah Prutton Theory. Aka "absence makes the heart grow fonder". He's not shown anything more than Seaborne in the opportunities he has had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 20 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 20 February, 2011 Actually the side Seaborne was playing against played well. Fonte wasn't exactly glorious there either, though he didn't get exposed - but that could be down to the roles they were taking on and who they were meant to be marking. If you mean the left side played well vs posh I think you are very much mistaken. Seaborne and harding had a mere. Harding was awful for the second goal and what the hell was seaborne doing for the penalty. Thought fonte played well and has too much to do when seaborne is playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 I do rate Seaborne but I have to say if Jaidi had played I certainly don't think we'd have conceded the goal just before half time, he'd have been straight onto it and headed it back out to the half way line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 I feel that if he had played at posh we would have won. He is slow but he is very good at getting his position right so he isnt exposed. He hardly gets booked and his temperament is great. Feel that seaborne is just not good enough and we probably need a quicker stronger centre back as we dont want to rely on jaidi for ever as he is getting older. Fonte for me is not a first defender but a defender who cleans up like a claus or dave watson. Fonte is much more effective with jaidi. Any thoughts guys? I think you're wrong, we were playing a high defensive line against Posh (IMHO), Jaidi is just not mobile enough to be able to play that role. If we want to sit and defend deep then he is your man, if we want to push up and squeeze the play then we need more mobile defenders Seaborne or Martin!! I do rate Seaborne but I have to say if Jaidi had played I certainly don't think we'd have conceded the goal just before half time, he'd have been straight onto it and headed it back out to the half way line. Concur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 20 February, 2011 Share Posted 20 February, 2011 Every time I've seen Jaidi, I've liked him. Seems to be under every ball. If I were Nige, I'd be saying "he still has a job to do for this football club" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidshokk Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 I get the feeling something has happened to martin at saints. Adkins made specific reference to Aron Martin in his last interview when talking about our strengths. Thought it odd considering he doesn't play him but maybe that will change. Perhaps the interest he got in the transfer window has made people wake up a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 Ah Prutton Theory. Aka "absence makes the heart grow fonder". He's not shown anything more than Seaborne in the opportunities he has had. Not for me. Been very impressed with him when I've seen him play, especially against Blackpool. From what I've seen, he's good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 I think you're wrong, we were playing a high defensive line against Posh (IMHO), Jaidi is just not mobile enough to be able to play that role. If we want to sit and defend deep then he is your man, if we want to push up and squeeze the play then we need more mobile defenders Seaborne or Martin!! You beat me to it. Jaidi defends differently to Seaborne and would have struggled if he had to keep the high line with so much attacking pace. I feel Seaborne is an adequate defender atm, has certainly progressed this season with his control etc etc but there is still more needed and hopefully he can deliever. As for Martin, Saints rebuffed an approach from West Ham for him so I hope it means he still has a future here and we get to see him more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 Not for me. Been very impressed with him when I've seen him play, especially against Blackpool. From what I've seen, he's good enough. Martin's two best games for us this season (out of the few he's played) are IMO Bolton and Blackpool which says to me he is one for the future if not right now. One thing I like about him is despite his age and lack of experince he is very vocal and knows what he is about, doesn't think twice about giving Fonte orders. He looks like possible captain material to me in the future. Having said that Nigel must have other ideas and you've got to trust that the manager knows his team well enough to put out the strongest back four in every match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint sfc Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 I really do think we take for granted how lucky we are to have Fonte - I'd say he's probably the best defender I've seen in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 21 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 21 February, 2011 I really do think we take for granted how lucky we are to have Fonte - I'd say he's probably the best defender I've seen in this league. Agree entirely. Think hes better playing with someone whose dominate in the air though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom28 Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 I do agree Fonte is very good. I do have a concern though that at a higher level, he might cause us problems with the amount of free kicks he gives away in dangerous positions but trying to win balls that he cant win. Better teams will punish us from those positions but we get away with them in League 1. Jaidi over Seaborne every time for me, regardless of who we play. Not seen enough of Martin, but what I've seen, I like. Especially the way he handled an in form Kevin Davies who made the England squad shortly after playing against us. Martin and Fonte will be first choice next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 Jaidi is still my first choice as the dominant guy at the back, Fonte, well, his class speaks for itself, he is up there as possibly being better then Claus for me. Seaborne has convinced me far more of his abilities this year but Jaidi's reading of the game and physical presence offer more then Seaborne has showed me he can. Keep Danny as backup, he will play. He is definitely our third choice CB and Aaron Martin is very able backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 21 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 21 February, 2011 Jaidi is still my first choice as the dominant guy at the back, Fonte, well, his class speaks for itself, he is up there as possibly being better then Claus for me. Seaborne has convinced me far more of his abilities this year but Jaidi's reading of the game and physical presence offer more then Seaborne has showed me he can. Keep Danny as backup, he will play. He is definitely our third choice CB and Aaron Martin is very able backup. I wouldnt say hes as good as claus. Claus played most of career in premier league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 I wouldnt say hes as good as claus. Claus played most of career in premier league. I said possibly.... I hope he gets the chance to attempt play at that level... with us of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Forever Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 Martin is for me the one who should be back-up to the Fonte/Jaidi partnership. I do feel that we need to get him signed on a new contract unless Aaron himself has decided not to sign. I also hope that Nigel is watching him progress with the intention of using him sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbert Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 We'd have conceded about 8 if Jaidi had played at Peterborough. Seaborne got done for pace chasing Mackail-Smith, Jaidi wouldn't even have been near enough after the first two steps to be considered "defending". He's much better against immobile lumps of target men. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 Roger, in reply to your hypothesis elsewhere :- I belive we were playing a high defensive line to give their pacey striker less space and time to run at our defenders. It's easier to catch pacey strikers offside if you're playing a higher line. Unfortunately on CM-S looks like he can play the offside trap magnificently. How I wish we had got him in the Transfer windows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 This Although Jaidi might have been better placed to start with.Anyone wondered where Fonte was for that goal, marauding forward no doubt. CMS was in his zone I think.I mean 2-0 up away from home does Fonte really need to be in their penalty area?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom28 Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 I can't start new threads but this may be worth one. I took a look and Martin is out of contract this summer. So I looked at who else has a contract expiring this summer.... Aaron Martin - 18month contract in November 2009 Rahdi Jaidi - 2 year contract in September 2009 Dan Harding - 2 year contract in July 2009 Danny Butterfield - 1 year contract in July 2010 David Connolly - 1 year contract in July 2010 Also expiring I think are (but I can't find confirmation): Lee Holmes Kelvin Davis Potentially we could only be left with Bart, Richardson, Dickson, Seaborne and Fonte of the existing goalkeepers and defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 If you mean the left side played well vs posh I think you are very much mistaken. Seaborne and harding had a mere. Harding was awful for the second goal and what the hell was seaborne doing for the penalty. Thought fonte played well and has too much to do when seaborne is playing. I didn't say anything of the sort. I don't think I even implied it. I also wouldn't be in the mindset of suggesting the defence played well when we conceded 4 goals. Fonte did ok when individually called upon to challenge, but no-one is going to look good at the back for a team conceding 4 goals even if there's nothing they can do about it. We were overrun from midfield and a lack of pressure on the ball due to Peterborough moving it quickly, us getting caught in behind a few times and sometimes just not getting there quick enough. With Jaidi we'd have just not got there even more slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 I really do think we take for granted how lucky we are to have Fonte - I'd say he's probably the best defender I've seen in this league. He's one of the best outside the Prem, I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 Although Jaidi might have been better placed to start with.Anyone wondered where Fonte was for that goal, marauding forward no doubt. CMS was in his zone I think.I mean 2-0 up away from home does Fonte really need to be in their penalty area?. If you watch the highlights he's actually marking his man - although not very well, admittedly. He is not "in their penalty area". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 I can't start new threads but this may be worth one. I took a look and Martin is out of contract this summer. So I looked at who else has a contract expiring this summer.... Aaron Martin - 18month contract in November 2009 Rahdi Jaidi - 2 year contract in September 2009 Dan Harding - 2 year contract in July 2009 Danny Butterfield - 1 year contract in July 2010 David Connolly - 1 year contract in July 2010 Also expiring I think are (but I can't find confirmation): Lee Holmes Kelvin Davis Potentially we could only be left with Bart, Richardson, Dickson, Seaborne and Fonte of the existing goalkeepers and defenders. I can only see Connolly and Holmes being let go out of that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 One other thing, Jaidi is on a downward career slope and may not be up to it if we get to the npC next season - how are we meant to assess if Seaborne or Martin, (who clearly has shown some potential well above the Conference South level we signed him from in his occasional performances) has the quality to replace him if they never get a game ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 I can only see Connolly and Holmes being let go out of that list. I think you're probably right, Jaidi will get another year due to his Championship experience and we might want to see if he's still got the legs. I wouldn't be surprised if we did that AND signed another Championship-level centre back in the summer though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 I can't start new threads but this may be worth one. I took a look and Martin is out of contract this summer. So I looked at who else has a contract expiring this summer.... Aaron Martin - 18month contract in November 2009 Rahdi Jaidi - 2 year contract in September 2009 Dan Harding - 2 year contract in July 2009 Danny Butterfield - 1 year contract in July 2010 David Connolly - 1 year contract in July 2010 Also expiring I think are (but I can't find confirmation): Lee Holmes Kelvin Davis Potentially we could only be left with Bart, Richardson, Dickson, Seaborne and Fonte of the existing goalkeepers and defenders. Martin must be fairlt highly thought of otherwise why did we turn down West Hams offer when he can go for free in May. Keeping him means another good option of course! Will be interesting who on that list stays. I would not be fussed (as long as we are up) if none of them were here cme August. None of those will be first team regulars in a team that will/should be challenging for promotion again. Its a whole new ebate on who to sign and what positions but I can see lots of changes in the back 5 especially as our management team is a former GK and CB. On topic thogh, herein lies the problem. Apart from Fonte, none of them are definite first choice. Jaidi would be if younger, Seaborne is not good enough in high tempo, fast paced, quick decision situations. And Martin is still developing...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 (edited) Seaborne is not good enough in high tempo, fast paced, quick decision situations. And Martin is still developing...... This is exactly the kind of thinking I'm referring to with "Prutton Theory". Martin has had far fewer games to be shown to be making mistakes in than Seaborne, that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be better at dealing with them when they do come his way. It only means we don't know - and as it's in the manager's interests to pick the best side for the situation, I'd imagine that Adkins has seen both of them in a lot more situations and knows where their strengths and weaknesses are far better than us - and Martin's not even getting a look in on a 7 man bench most games. His TOTAL appearances for Saints are as follows : Football League One Sa 01May 2010 Gillingham 2 - 1 Southampton Football League One Sa 08May 2010 Southampton 3 - 1 Southend Carling Cup Tu 24Aug 2010 Southampton 0 - 1 Bolton Football League One Sa 28Aug 2010 Bristol R 0 - 4 Southampton Football League One Sa 04Sep 2010 Southampton 0 - 2 Rochdale Football League One Sa 11Sep 2010 Swindon 1 - 0 Southampton English FA Cup Sa 08Jan 2011 Southampton 2 - 0 Blackpool And of those I've only missed Bristol Rovers away and Swindon away... so how anyone else is building a finite decision on him is beyond me. I've only got a picture of a reasonably strong, solid defender who is decent in the air, isn't slow, can pass when he has time, but has a tendency to industrial clearance into the stand or up the pitch. Beyond that he could be brilliant or garbage. I've seen Seaborne loads, I've seen him concede two silly penalties and get done for pace against one of the division's top scorers but also pass the ball very well, win plenty in the air and look very solid alongside Fonte, and I'm still not sure where all the hate is coming from. Edited 21 February, 2011 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 21 February, 2011 Share Posted 21 February, 2011 This is exactly the kind of thinking I'm referring to with "Prutton Theory". Martin has had far fewer games to be shown to be making mistakes in than Seaborne, that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be better at dealing with them when they do come his way. It only means we don't know - and as it's in the manager's interests to pick the best side for the situation, I'd imagine that Adkins has seen both of them in a lot more situations and knows where their strengths and weaknesses are far better than us - and Martin's not even getting a look in on a 7 man bench most games. not exactly sure what your point is particularly in regard to the Prutton Theory but basically neither of them are good enough imo to be first choice every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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