saintroyt Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 I am lead to believe that AD has stated there will be a couple of additions in the closed season. whilst I have faith in him I believe we need more than a couple after the weekends events, we have some huge competion next season and some big clubs fighting for promotion next season and is our sqad strong enough to compete at the new level.Would love us to be amongst it but have concerns about wether we can do a Norwich but heres hoping adkins is spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Bald_Si Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Apologies for being naive - but who is "AD"? I'd understand an NA, AC, or an NC, at a push....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Would that be Andy Crosby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 (edited) I am lead to believe that AD has stated there will be a couple of additions in the closed season. whilst I have faith in him I believe we need more than a couple after the weekends events, we have some huge competion next season and some big clubs fighting for promotion next season and is our sqad strong enough to compete at the new level.Would love us to be amongst it but have concerns about wether we can do a Norwich but heres hoping adkins is spot on That is going to be one big mill stone around our neck all season isn't it? Norwich have done it so now everyone thinks we should be able to do it.......... Great if we do but I really hope people aren't holding out for it, back to back promotions is a really big ask. Edited 23 May, 2011 by doddisalegend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 That is going to be one big mill stone around our neck all season isn't it? Norwich have done it so now everyone thinks we should be able to do it.......... Great if we do but I really hope people aren't holding out for it back to bacxk promotions is a really big ask. Exactly and it seems to be expected that we will do it - anything else than back to back promotions will now be seen as a poor season....which is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 That is going to be one big mill stone around our neck all season isn't it? Norwich have done it so now everyone thinks we should be able to do it.......... Great if we do but I really hope people aren't holding out for it back to bacxk promotions is a really big ask. totally agree..its not going to happen..it was a freak season..every year one team goes on one of those runs where everything happens for them...ref decisions, luck, penalty saves etc... reading, palace, blackpool etc have all been THAT team...last season, it was norwich...... getting into the playoffs next season will be an amazing achievement alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwsaint Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 maybe nigel adkins has been fired and alan davies is replacing him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff Saint Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 From a little bit of shotgun research only four teams have been promoted out of the third division and gone on to finish in the top 6 of the second division the following season (in the years between Man City and Norwich actually securing promotion) According to Wikipedia they are (yrs relate to their Championship top 6 finish) 1999 - Man City 2001 - Preston 2002 - Millwall 2003 - Reading 2008 - Bristol City 2011 - Norwich I thought it would have been more than that so this might manage expectations a little! I suppose looking back a number of those teams promoted wouldn't have had anywhere near the resources we have, but then I doubt the Championship has ever been as strong as it will be on paper this coming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 (edited) Exactly and it seems to be expected that we will do it - anything else than back to back promotions will now be seen as a poor season....which is wrong. Agree but only to a certain extent. Yes automatic promotion is the exception rather than the rule -and it would be madness to set our expectations without regard to history; still there is no reason to think we can't challenge. If you compare how newly promoted L1 teams have done in the championship, history shows that we should be aiming higher rather than lower. For instance, the distribution of newly promoted LI teams finishing in the top half relative to the bottom half of the championship the following season is evenly spread; and each season has seen one L1 team do very well, challenging for and often securing a playoff place. L1 2009/10 -championship position following year Norwich -2 Leeds -7 Millwall -9 L1 2008/09 Leicester -6 went out on pens to Cardiff in playoff semi final P'boro -24 Sc*nthorpe -20 L1 2007/08 Swansea -8 and finished 7th and 3rd the next two seasons N'Forest -19 but finished 3rd and 6th the next two seasons Doncaster- 14 L1 2006/07 Sc*nthope -23 Bristol City -4 lost in the playoff final Blackpool- 19 L1 2005/06 Southend -22 Colchester -10 Barnsley -20 Edited 24 May, 2011 by shurlock forgot qpr 2010/2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Agree but only to a certain extent. Yes automatic promotion is the exception rather than the rule -and it would be madness to set our expectations without regard to history; still there is no reason to think we can't challenge. If you compare how newly promoted L1 teams have done in the championship, history shows that we should be aiming higher rather than lower. For instance, the distribution of newly promoted LI teams finishing in the top half relative to the bottom half of the championship the following season is evenly spread; and each season has seen one L1 team do very well, challenging for and often securing a playoff place. L1 2009/10 -championship position following year Norwich -1 Leeds -7 Millwall -9 L1 2008/09 Leicester -6 went out on pens to Cardiff in playoff semi final P'boro -24 Sc*nthorpe -20 L1 2007/08 Swansea -8 and finished 7th and 3rd the next two seasons N'Forest -19 but finished 3rd and 6th the next two seasons Doncaster- 14 L1 2006/07 Sc*nthope -23 Bristol City -4 lost in the playoff final Blackpool- 19 L1 2005/06 Southend -22 Colchester -10 Barnsley -20 Should we be worried about sc*nthorpes lowly finishing postion both times after promotion............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 totally agree..its not going to happen..it was a freak season..every year one team goes on one of those runs where everything happens for them...ref decisions, luck, penalty saves etc... reading, palace, blackpool etc have all been THAT team...last season, it was norwich...... getting into the playoffs next season will be an amazing achievement alone Indeed. We're going have to work very hard (and sign well) to get near the top of the division next season. Expectations need to be reined in to make sure we're not on the players and managers backs when we don't go on a ten game winning streak come August/September!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Indeed. We're going have to work very hard (and sign well) to get near the top of the division next season. Expectations need to be reined in to make sure we're not on the players and managers backs when we don't go on a ten game winning streak come August/September!!!!!![/QUOTE] You know that it is impossible for this not happen. You are talking about the same fans who think we are signing Michael Owen, Scott Parker and Shay Given. A season or two of midtable obsurity might be a good thing and make some of our dinlow fans realise we aren't going to win every game 8-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Indeed. We're going have to work very hard (and sign well) to get near the top of the division next season. Expectations need to be reined in to make sure we're not on the players and managers backs when we don't go on a ten game winning streak come August/September!!!!!![/QUOTE] You know that it is impossible for this not happen. You are talking about the same fans who think we are signing Michael Owen, Scott Parker and Shay Given. A season or two of midtable obsurity might be a good thing and make some of our dinlow fans realise we aren't going to win every game 8-0. only 8-0 jesus what is it with the wrist slashers on here............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
September Saint Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Should we be worried about sc*nthorpes lowly finishing postion both times after promotion............. No. They're a small underresourced team. Why do you think NA jumped ship to a lower league club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 From a little bit of shotgun research only four teams have been promoted out of the third division and gone on to finish in the top 6 of the second division the following season (in the years between Man City and Norwich actually securing promotion) According to Wikipedia they are (yrs relate to their Championship top 6 finish) 1999 - Man City 2001 - Preston 2002 - Millwall 2003 - Reading 2008 - Bristol City 2011 - Norwich I thought it would have been more than that so this might manage expectations a little! I suppose looking back a number of those teams promoted wouldn't have had anywhere near the resources we have, but then I doubt the Championship has ever been as strong as it will be on paper this coming season. So a 50% chance of the play offs before strengthing squad,the 3 relegated clubs losing players, not bad before a ball has been kicked. the glass is half full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 So a 50% chance of the play offs before strengthing squad,the 3 relegated clubs losing players, not bad before a ball has been kicked. the glass is half full With snippets from different posters can't help feel there is potentially something in Owen link especially no transfer fee enabling more money for salary. But we'll see. However talk of given and Parker is ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFHP Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Indeed. We're going have to work very hard (and sign well) to get near the top of the division next season. Expectations need to be reined in to make sure we're not on the players and managers backs when we don't go on a ten game winning streak come August/September!!!!!![/QUOTE] You know that it is impossible for this not happen. You are talking about the same fans who think we are signing Michael Owen, Scott Parker and Shay Given. A season or two of midtable obsurity might be a good thing and make some of our dinlow fans realise we aren't going to win every game 8-0. Indeed, what happened to the 5 year plan? 2 years to get out of league one and 3 years to gain promotion to the premiership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Indeed, what happened to the 5 year plan? 2 years to get out of league one and 3 years to gain promotion to the premiership? Some people had us down for competing in the Champions League at the end of those 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 You know that it is impossible for this not happen. You are talking about the same fans who think we are signing Michael Owen, Scott Parker and Shay Given. A season or two of midtable obsurity might be a good thing and make some of our dinlow fans realise we aren't going to win every game 8-0. I wouldn't count on it when 90% of our fanbase are complete bellends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFHP Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Some people had us down for competing in the Champions League at the end of those 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Madness, going to be some disappointed fans next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Indeed, what happened to the 5 year plan? 2 years to get out of league one and 3 years to gain promotion to the premiership? Nothing at all. Markus said, in the only televised clip I have ever seen of him speaking, that progress would be sure but steady and I believe that still applies. The 5 year plan allows three years to regain Premiership status and I believe NC and NA will use next season as one of consolidation. Obviously if we are in with a chance of the play offs towards the end of the season then of course they will go for it but people's expectations shouldn't be too high. If we do a Norwich then fantastic but they are very much the exception rather than the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintroyt Posted 23 May, 2011 Author Share Posted 23 May, 2011 I am not beeing critical of NA as i think he is a great manager and got the players believing in themselves but be it next season or the following is our squad strong enough,yes we have some fabulous players hopefully they stay with us but do the fans believe we will achieve the 5 year plan? I am just posing the question as fan of over 45 years have not felt so good about the club since the mid 1970 s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cestrian Saint Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Surely AD is short for Adkins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 (edited) Some confused and confusing posts - for all the talk of unrealistic expectations, who exactly has said that they expect us to do a Norwich? Nobody... As far as I see it, discussion has centred around how good our current squad is and the amount of strengthening necessary to compete with 9 or 10 other decent teams. What happens after that is anybody's call; but winning the league or auto is a galaxy away from peoples initial radars. If anything the view is that bookies odds etc are flattering, suggesting lower rather than higher expectations on our part. Seems a case of few posters getting the wrong end of stick and prematurely mounting their high horses. Edited 23 May, 2011 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 Nothing at all. Markus said, in the only televised clip I have ever seen of him speaking, that progress would be sure but steady and I believe that still applies. The 5 year plan allows three years to regain Premiership status and I believe NC and NA will use next season as one of consolidation. Obviously if we are in with a chance of the play offs towards the end of the season then of course they will go for it but people's expectations shouldn't be too high. If we do a Norwich then fantastic but they are very much the exception rather than the rule. Not they won't use next season as one of consolidation. That will certainly not be the aim anyway, where did u get that from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK_Phoey Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 So a 50% chance of the play offs before strengthing squad,the 3 relegated clubs losing players, not bad before a ball has been kicked. the glass is half full Not really a 50% chance since 3 teams come up so in 12 years a total of 36 teams have been promoted and only 6 making the play offs or better give you something closer to 16-17% chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 I am lead to believe that AD has stated there will be a couple of additions in the closed season. whilst I have faith in him I believe we need more than a couple after the weekends events, we have some huge competion next season and some big clubs fighting for promotion next season and is our sqad strong enough to compete at the new level.Would love us to be amongst it but have concerns about wether we can do a Norwich but heres hoping adkins is spot on Some confused and confusing posts - for all the talk of unrealistic expectations, who exactly has said that they expect us to do a Norwich? Nobody... As far as I see it, discussion has centred around how good our current squad is and the amount of strengthening necessary to compete with 9 or 10 other decent teams. What happens after that is anybody's call; but winning the league or auto is a galaxy away from peoples initial radars. If anything the view is that bookies odds etc are flattering, suggesting lower rather than higher expectations on our part. Seems a case of few posters getting the wrong end of stick and prematurely mounting their high horses. OP mentioned us doing a Norwich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken With A Banjo Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 Personally I expect us to do a QPR and will be disappointed if we do a Norwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 Some confused and confusing posts - for all the talk of unrealistic expectations, who exactly has said that they expect us to do a Norwich? Nobody... The OP makes reference to doing a Norwich, so does the OP and others here: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?29912-any-reason-why-us-following-Norwich-is-impossible&highlight=norwich Plus a number of other posts commenting on how we are no different to Norwich (some suggesting we're actually better placed) and we could emulate their success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 OP mentioned us doing a Norwich Fair enough - and perhaps i shouldn't have said nobody, though at the moment the OP is very much a lone voice (or lone voices) in the wilderness, not an emerging consensus or indicative of a genuine minority that anyone should pay much attention to. Saying that it would be nice or its possible to do a Norwich is different from demanding or expecting it. Of course, should that change, I agree that some pretty serious expectation-management will be necessary. But just maybe next season will be relatively uncontroversial as the usual faultlines between wrist-slashers and happy-clappers fade with most people settling for some form of stabilisation and perhaps a playoff push. Needless to say, a forum without major controversy could be a pretty dull place for some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 From a little bit of shotgun research only four teams have been promoted out of the third division and gone on to finish in the top 6 of the second division the following season (in the years between Man City and Norwich actually securing promotion) According to Wikipedia they are (yrs relate to their Championship top 6 finish) 1999 - Man City 2001 - Preston 2002 - Millwall 2003 - Reading 2008 - Bristol City 2011 - Norwich I thought it would have been more than that so this might manage expectations a little! I suppose looking back a number of those teams promoted wouldn't have had anywhere near the resources we have, but then I doubt the Championship has ever been as strong as it will be on paper this coming season. that's more than I thought - guess none of them had a last 6 months as good as us, as good crowds (Norwich probably matched on crowds), or as big resources Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 The OP makes reference to doing a Norwich, so does the OP and others here: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?29912-any-reason-why-us-following-Norwich-is-impossible&highlight=norwich Plus a number of other posts commenting on how we are no different to Norwich (some suggesting we're actually better placed) and we could emulate their success. nothing wrong with that. We could. Whether we will, who knows, but they have shown its not ridiculous to aim for it - but I do think it would be ridiculous to expect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokingFun Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 Should we be worried about sc*nthorpes lowly finishing postion both times after promotion............. No I think we have more resources at our disposal than NA would have had back then with Scunny and he will be more experienced now and will no doubt have learned from previous stints in the CCC. He had Scunny reasonably placed before joining us and its only after he left that they went into freefall last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 Would that be Andy Crosby? Yes Stills and Nash couldn't make it apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 We have no idea what players we will bring in or what money we will have to spend, it might be (I doubt it) that we spend compabably as much as we did in League one, where the expectation is that we go out automatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 I don't think that we are very far adrift from where Norwich were a season ago and in three matches we played against them that season, we got 4 points from 6 against them and knocked them out of the JPT Cup. They kept most of their squad and fine-tuned it to gain promotion this season and there is nothing to suggest that we cannot do the same thing. The success of a team has much to do with the mind-set of the players and the team spirit is good at the moment. We should have some sort of impetus, with luck, carrying over from this season and plenty of time to bed in any new signings before we start the new season. NA appears to be good from the point of view of player motivation and just as he was prepared to stick his neck out and state that we aimed to go up as champions earlier in this season, it wouldn't surprise me if he were to say that our aim was at least to reach the play-offs. I honestly believe that we are as good as any other team in this division at the moment and provided that we can keep players like Chamberlain and Lallana and add some additional quality, we could have a very good season. I think that if we get off to our usual slow start, people should not make the mistake that many did this season, thinking that we had blown our chances. Experience also tells us that if we raced away with a series of good early wins, we should not expect that there will be no hiccups further into the season. I'm confident that Adkins will keep his and the players' feet on the ground, rationalising every twist and turn and making the appropriate adjustments along the way. So I am optimistic, but hopefully also realistic. We could do it, but if we don't, but come close, I'll be very happy that we will be well placed for the season after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 Why did Norwich do well? New manager came in and performed and only knew success at the club - same applies. Finished season before strongly - not as strongly as we did this year. Money behind them - probably we are better placed. Depth of squad - certainly think we are ahead of where they were 12 months ago. summer signings - ? They added about half a dozen players who clearly have done well, but worth noting they didn't chase big names mainly lower league players or player not made it at their higher level clubs. I cannot see any reason why we should look at Norwich and say it is out of our reach, with only two or three signings. That is not the same as saying I expect it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Saint Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 The Championship is going to be very very competative next season a lot of big clubs with prem ambition however I expect us to make a few decent quality signings & be in the shake up I would like to think we can make the play offs. I am not saying Norwich have done it so we must be able to things are never that simple but I think we have momentum we have a good squad that if we can keep it in tact & add some quality Championship we will more than hold our own next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 Why did Norwich do well? New manager came in and performed and only knew success at the club - same applies. Finished season before strongly - not as strongly as we did this year. Money behind them - probably we are better placed. Depth of squad - certainly think we are ahead of where they were 12 months ago. summer signings - ? They added about half a dozen players who clearly have done well, but worth noting they didn't chase big names mainly lower league players or player not made it at their higher level clubs. I cannot see any reason why we should look at Norwich and say it is out of our reach, with only two or three signings. That is not the same as saying I expect it Totally agree. If you look at the current squad we have now you would have to say we were deffinatly a top 10 squad in the NPC. Sky bet have it like this West Ham - 7/1 Leicester - 7/1 Birmingham - 8/1 Southampton - 10/1 Forest - 10/1 By the start of the season i'd imagine we would still be in the top 6 with the bookies. But it all depends on what happens in the summer. In my opinion we are 2/3 quality signings away from being promotion contenders. If we got another CB of Fonte's quality in for Jaidi, an attacking central midfield player and a fast striker of proven quality at this level then we will be up there or there abouts. Nobody expects promotion. But what i do expect is the club to give the funds if we have them to Adkins to go out and get those players. Because if the plan is 2 years in the NPC then the majority of this squad will still be here after next season. If it is not good enough to get up this season then why would it be the following one? Our resources mean we should have the ability to give it a good go. But until the first day of the season you can't really say your expectations as we will add to the team and lose players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 L1 2009/10 -championship position following year Norwich -1 Leeds -7 Millwall -9 Bet QPR are gutted that their results have been removed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 Bet QPR are gutted that their results have been removed... good spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 Totally agree. If you look at the current squad we have now you would have to say we were deffinatly a top 10 squad in the NPC. Sky bet have it like this West Ham - 7/1 Leicester - 7/1 Birmingham - 8/1 Southampton - 10/1 Forest - 10/1 By the start of the season i'd imagine we would still be in the top 6 with the bookies. But it all depends on what happens in the summer. In my opinion we are 2/3 quality signings away from being promotion contenders. If we got another CB of Fonte's quality in for Jaidi, an attacking central midfield player and a fast striker of proven quality at this level then we will be up there or there abouts. Nobody expects promotion. But what i do expect is the club to give the funds if we have them to Adkins to go out and get those players. Because if the plan is 2 years in the NPC then the majority of this squad will still be here after next season. If it is not good enough to get up this season then why would it be the following one? Our resources mean we should have the ability to give it a good go. But until the first day of the season you can't really say your expectations as we will add to the team and lose players. Blimey...18's on us to win with Paddy Power..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 Blimey...18's on us to win with Paddy Power..... Not bad, i remember they had QPR at something like 14/1 to win it last year. Forest were favs at 15/2.....18/1 on us getting promoted is worth a tenner for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 24 May, 2011 Share Posted 24 May, 2011 Not they won't use next season as one of consolidation. That will certainly not be the aim anyway, where did u get that from? I cannot say where I got it from but I can assure you that the talk was of consolidation next season, see where we end up then push on in the following two seasons in an effort to see the 5 year plan through to its target - Premiership football. Of course if we do very very well, ie, top 6 then that will be a bonus. You dont have to believe me, lets just wait and see, but I would be very surprised if, given the information I was, we spend big this close season. A couple of quality players for decent but not ridiculous fees and a couple on the cheap would be my guess. Of course if Chamberlain goes that may change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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