Should we just go into administration now?

[simo]

By the looks of things its a nailed on cert anyway!

[1976_Child]

By the looks of things its a nailed on cert anyway!

 

we probably should, but not while there is still a bit more money left to pay Rupert's salary.

[Guest Hacienda]

By the looks of things its a nailed on cert anyway!

 

I was just about to post the same thing.

 

We are going down anyway, although the happy clappys will insist we won't.

[Tamesaint]

No, no, no!!

 

Administration would mean:

 

1. Pompey owning SMS. They have been looking for a new stadium for ages. It would make sense for them to buy SMS at the knock down price which the administrator would sell it for.

 

2. Pompey owning Staplewood.... for exactly the same reasons as they would buy SMS. We would be left training on the Common.

 

3. Jacksons Farm disappearing - with all the long term potential benefits that would bring.

 

Whatever else happens we must not go into adminstration.

[dubai_phil]

By the looks of things its a nailed on cert anyway!

 

No it's not.

 

The club IS a mess it has debts, but when the trading statement comes out look carefully because it also has assets.

 

The club HAS to survive this recession because at the end of it a lot of blood will have been spilled around the world, a great deal will have changed (sponsors going bust not just clubs) that there is a chance of a major rethink on the way the football world thinks.

 

IF it survives it can be sold. If it goes under NOW, losing money and will lose players to repay the debts, it becomes a HELL of a gamble that someone might take it over and pump in money to make it run...

 

Because right now ANYONE out there with money is trying to find ways to stop losing it, not buy expensive toys.

 

This ain't in favour of the incumbents, it's just that it will truly be worse and we are talking about survivng for 6-9 months THEN we can get rid of Lowe et al. Admin means they MIGHT be gone but so will any hope for any future for the club for 5-10 years

[NickG]

I was just about to post the same thing.

 

We are going down anyway, although the happy clappys will insist we won't.

 

the realistic (only teasing!) prediction is we will be lower table -based on current form and current league table,

 

We may go down but at the moment the odds are we wont so adminsitatration surely would be a bad thing.

[Weston Saint]

My view:

 

If we had gone down last season Administration was likely. We were living well beyond our income and no real chance of a quick fix.

 

If we go down this season there is every chance we will be able to avoid administration. I say this because the club are cutting their cloth and although it has some way to go there is more cost cutting to come.

 

It is my firm view that although Lowe and Wilde do not want us relegated, they are preparing the finances to be able to absorb the same should it occur and there is, as we all know, a strong chance of that at the moment.

[Wade Garrett]

No it's not.

 

The club IS a mess it has debts, but when the trading statement comes out look carefully because it also has assets.

 

The club HAS to survive this recession because at the end of it a lot of blood will have been spilled around the world, a great deal will have changed (sponsors going bust not just clubs) that there is a chance of a major rethink on the way the football world thinks.

 

IF it survives it can be sold. If it goes under NOW, losing money and will lose players to repay the debts, it becomes a HELL of a gamble that someone might take it over and pump in money to make it run...

 

Because right now ANYONE out there with money is trying to find ways to stop losing it, not buy expensive toys.

 

This ain't in favour of the incumbents, it's just that it will truly be worse and we are talking about survivng for 6-9 months THEN we can get rid of Lowe et al. Admin means they MIGHT be gone but so will any hope for any future for the club for 5-10 years

 

The last recession was about the time Sky revolutionised our game (for better or worse). To be fair, it won't be the football world so much as the debt heavy English clubs that will have to rethink.

[Guest Hacienda]

Now I get it. It's not that you're a *****, it's that you're that thick.

 

Yes, I shouldn't get insulting, but christ the new depths of ignorance really wind me up. We're definitely going down because we've been so **** we're not even in the relegation zone?

 

We are ****. We have no money. But there are plenty of **** teams about with no money. Stop ****ing whining about it and get on with supporting the team. If we sell others, so be it. **** happens.

 

All this categorisation is pathetic, it just highlights ignorance. You're insisted we're down and you're criticising some group you're conjured up who insist we won't. Well, you are in no place to say we will and they're in no place to say we won't. Neither group has any idea. One will end up saying they were right, but there's nothing right about claiming some knowledge of an unknown future, it's just ****ing stupid.

 

But no doubt you will read that (or not read it, as is the usual case) as me being in the latter group, which sadly renders all use of common sense largely useless. It's at that point that we all have to resort to insults sadly. So, *****.

 

As I consider you a total and utter mong I actually read nothing you write.

 

You lost any creability with your "hungry young strikers scoring 20 goals each" ******s.

[Wade Garrett]

My view:

 

If we had gone down last season Administration was likely. We were living well beyond our income and no real chance of a quick fix.

 

If we go down this season there is every chance we will be able to avoid administration. I say this because the club are cutting their cloth and although it has some way to go there is more cost cutting to come.

 

It is my firm view that although Lowe and Wilde do not want us relegated, they are preparing the finances to be able to absorb the same should it occur and there is, as we all know, a strong chance of that at the moment.

 

That is Lowe's policy all over. It was last time he was in charge and is the same now. Only this time it is relegation from the CCC and not the Premier.

[NickG]

As I consider you a total and utter mong I actually read nothing you write.

 

You lost any creability with your "hungry young strikers scoring 20 goals each" ******s.

 

your happy clappy was just goading. As said the odds are we won't go down for all the reasons listed in that thread.

[NickG]

That is Lowe's policy all over. It was last time he was in charge and is the same now. Only this time it is relegation from the CCC and not the Premier.

 

he maybe arrogant, opinionated, poor at managing managers etc- but do you really think his policy is to seek relegation? If you do you have lost it

[Faz]

he maybe arrogant, opinionated, poor at managing managers etc- but do you really think his policy is to seek relegation? If you do you have lost it

 

That presumes he had it in the first place

[Channon's Sideburns]

he maybe arrogant, opinionated, poor at managing managers etc- but do you really think his policy is to seek relegation? If you do you have lost it

 

Nick,

 

There are similarities - Lowe always preached prudence whilst at the helm previously, which contributed (note - I didn't say it was the only reason!) to our downfall and relegation...we all know that underperforming players came in to it as well..

 

The problem is, we (sorry, he) is making the same mistakes - letting Stern John leave is cutting your nose off to spite your face ...mmm let's let our top scorer from last season go on loan, to join our previous top goalscorer (Rasiak) in plying his trade with a CCC competitor.

 

Yes, they are not cheap, but give me John or Rasiak over BWP and DMG anyday.

 

After all, they cost the money because they score goals FFS..

[Wade Garrett]

he maybe arrogant, opinionated, poor at managing managers etc- but do you really think his policy is to seek relegation? If you do you have lost it

 

 

His policy seems to be prepare for failure, rather than prepare for success.

 

I don't think I'm the one who has lost it.

[Faz]

Nick,

 

There are similarities - Lowe always preached prudence whilst at the helm previously, which contributed (note - I didn't say it was the only reason!) to our downfall and relegation...we all know that underperforming players came in to it as well..

 

The problem is, we (sorry, he) is making the same mistakes - letting Stern John leave is cutting your nose off to spite your face ...mmm let's let our top scorer from last season go on loan, to join our previous top goalscorer (Rasiak) in plying his trade with a CCC competitor.

 

Yes, they are not cheap, but give me John or Rasiak over BWP and DMG anyday.

 

After all, they cost the money because they score goals FFS..

 

You're assuming:

 

1. He is calling the shots rather than the Bank.

 

2. He hasn't tried to shift some of the others - or at leats those that would make a difference to running costs.

[Gemmel]

 

2. Pompey owning Staplewood.... for exactly the same reasons as they would buy SMS. We would be left training on the Common.

 

quote]

 

Pompey won't buy SMS and (way off thread) as for the common, My school didn't have playing fields so we used to play our sports on the common....... for three weeks in a row, i heard my PE teacher on the very fringes of a heart attack, bellow out my name as i ditched the game i was playing in to run round with the Saints who trained on the common......keegan, Channon, Holmes, Moran.........if thats the standard of players we would get if we trained on the common, then count me.

 

On a more serious note, the bit about avoiding administration at all costs, is spot on ....if there is a way of avoiding it, then we must look at it.

[NickG]

we probably should, but not while there is still a bit more money left to pay Rupert's salary.

 

why?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

This really is like the death of a thousand cuts now , even with a few experienced quality players such as Stern John or Andrew Davies we still looked like a good bet for relegation this season - but without our best players what kind of chance do we really have now ?

 

The trouble with preparing for the possibility of League One football next season like this is that we've now virtually guaranteed it . I would be surprised if there were any set of circumstances that would allow this club to avoid Administration with gates of maybe 9000 down in L1 next season . I'm no accountant but surly there just won't be enough income to service a £20m debt - unless we can transfer Adam Lallana to a Premier League club for £9m that is .

[Gemmel]

unless we can transfer Adam Lallana to a Premier League club for £9m that is .

 

 

As good as prospect as he is, vulchers don't pay that sort of money. £1 mill tops, may be even £750k

[Andy_Porter]

I reckon we will get 2-3 million for him, maybe more if he keeps impressing.

 

Someone will be getting a bargain though.

 

[lordswoodsaints]

its not over til the fat lady sings and all that.

[Fan The Flames]

No, no, no admin must be avoided.

 

Can we not sell the ground and lease it back until we are in a better position.

[Window Cleaner]

No, no, no admin must be avoided.

 

Can we not sell the ground and lease it back until we are in a better position.

 

To whom?

Who wants to buy a 35 million quid White Elephant and lease it to a struggling football club?.

If we could find some-one to buy the stadium,Bingo we'd have found an "investor".

 

Coventry's stadium buyback was something to do with their major shareholder and the Council I think.

Southampton City Council won't even help us by cutting the rates, let alone

buying the stadium.

[Fan The Flames]

Why not it has happen before; Coventry, Watford, Brentford, Palace just of the top of my head.

 

You get PFI and partnering initiatives all the time. Hospitals, schools, London Fire Brigade do it, who would have thought someone would want to buy a fire station. Sainsburys were considering it a few years back.

[SaintRichmond]

No, no, no!!

 

Administration would mean:

 

1. Pompey owning SMS. They have been looking for a new stadium for ages. It would make sense for them to buy SMS at the knock down price which the administrator would sell it for.

 

2. Pompey owning Staplewood.... for exactly the same reasons as they would buy SMS. We would be left training on the Common.

 

3. Jacksons Farm disappearing - with all the long term potential benefits that would bring.

 

Whatever else happens we must not go into adminstration.

 

 

Exactly WHAT long term potential benefits will Jackson's Farm bring ???

 

NOTHING as regards SAINTS ......... Everything as regards Lowe & Wilde ..... It will not be long before all those that shouted me down over this will have to change their opinion

 

Lowe & Wilde are there for the benefit of Lowe & Wilde .... nothing else

 

It is only down to Lowe's narrow minded "Lowe First" mentality, that has stopped us going to Administration months ago.

 

Enough is Enough ........... we HAVE to accept Administration ......... Lowe has got the "Pound of Flesh" he came back for ........ He is leading us into NON EXISTANCE .........

[bridge too far]

Why not it has happen before; Coventry, Watford, Brentford, Palace just of the top of my head.

 

You get PFI and partnering initiatives all the time. Hospitals, schools, London Fire Brigade do it, who would have thought someone would want to buy a fire station. Sainsburys were considering it a few years back.

 

The supposed benefit of PFI ise the transfer of risk. Private developers accept the risk of delivering (a building) on time and at a contracted cost. The public sector rents the facility for usually 25-30 years and then owns it.

 

Credit crunch aside, I find it hard to believe that a private developer would be prepared to take the risk, quite honestly.

[tommi]

Exactly WHAT long term potential benefits will Jackson's Farm bring ???

 

NOTHING as regards SAINTS ......... Everything as regards Lowe & Wilde ..... It will not be long before all those that shouted me down over this will have to change their opinion

 

Lowe & Wilde are there for the benefit of Lowe & Wilde .... nothing else

 

It is only down to Lowe's narrow minded "Lowe First" mentality, that has stopped us going to Administration months ago.

 

Enough is Enough ........... we HAVE to accept Administration ......... Lowe has got the "Pound of Flesh" he came back for ........ He is leading us into NON EXISTANCE .........

 

You really are a clueless ****. When a club goes into administration more often than not (approx 70% I believe) are sold by the administrators back to the incumbent chairman!

 

So, if we go into administration we'll be asset stripped, dead cert relegated, -15 or possibly more points and then quite probably bought back by Lowe for a minimal outlay.

 

So you see, administration is not an option. We'll not if you truly are a 'Southampton fan'.

[Thedelldays]

although admin is dreadful

 

I have to laugh at those who see it as a way of getting rid of lowe....lol

[Sundance Beast]

Exactly WHAT long term potential benefits will Jackson's Farm bring ???

 

NOTHING as regards SAINTS ......... Everything as regards Lowe & Wilde ..... It will not be long before all those that shouted me down over this will have to change their opinion

 

Lowe & Wilde are there for the benefit of Lowe & Wilde .... nothing else

 

It is only down to Lowe's narrow minded "Lowe First" mentality, that has stopped us going to Administration months ago.

 

Enough is Enough ........... we HAVE to accept Administration ......... Lowe has got the "Pound of Flesh" he came back for ........ He is leading us into NON EXISTANCE .........

 

Food for thought...

3. What is the role of the Administrators?

 

Administration is a procedure available in the UK to a company that is insolvent, or is likely to become so. The procedure involves placing the company under the control of one or more insolvency practitioners and the protection of the UK courts.

 

Once appointed the company acting as Administrators became officers of the court and have a fiduciary responsibility to protect and realise the assets for the benefits of all creditors. Accordingly, the key objectives of the Administrators are to maximise the values of assets and realise this for the benefit of all creditors. No individual creditor or group of creditors can be preferred in any way. All creditors have to be treated equally.

 

4. What are the guiding principles of administration?

 

The Administrators have to act under the following guiding principles:

 

The primary duty of the Administrators is to realise assets for cash for the benefit of all creditors. They need to obtain the best price for the assets, in the light of the prevailing market for such assets and any special circumstances requiring them to realise assets quickly

Each legal entity must be treated separately. The Administrators will only convey whatever right, title and interest SLHplc companies in administration have over the asset.

Creditors of the same type or class (e.g. unsecured) must be dealt with on a pari passu or equal basis since the estate is insolvent. The Administrators are officers of the court and have to deal with creditors on an even-handed basis.

Assets and liabilities which are not owned by the SLHplc companies in administration do not form part of the insolvent estates. The Administrators, therefore, need to determine the status of all assets and liabilities. Where assets are held in trust, the Administrators may deal with them (e.g. return them to the owner), but the Administrators need to ensure that creditors in the same class are not disadvantaged; Administrators may insist that the costs of dealing with this are borne by the owner and not by the rest of the estate.

Where actions or queries are of no, or minimal, value to creditors, the Administrators reserve the right not to spend any time in dealing with them

Where the Administrators settle with a counterparty, they may insist on no set- off in relation to pre-administration acts or omissions

The Administrators act without personal liability.

 

In short the club would be broken up and sold off if a buyer could not be found to pay off the companies existing creditors. People think administration is some easy meal ticket like an IVA. A chance to wipe the slate clean and start again albeit under new restrictions.

 

Trouble is you are all making one massive assumption that in administration we would find someone willing to do what Lowe/Wilde are trying to do in making this club a going concern and not at the mercy of some oiligarch's whim. It's been said a buyer only needs £20m, well in the current market please step forward we'll be pleased to meet that person for they are sure to be a bigger fool than those already wanting administration to purely oust Lowe and Wilde. Oh and -10pts, no staff apart from just a skeleton staff to assist with the closure and of course no players. Still want administration?

[Fan The Flames]

The supposed benefit of PFI ise the transfer of risk. Private developers accept the risk of delivering (a building) on time and at a contracted cost. The public sector rents the facility for usually 25-30 years and then owns it.

 

Credit crunch aside, I find it hard to believe that a private developer would be prepared to take the risk, quite honestly.

 

You can transfer that risk through a design and build contract, PFI shifts the capital expenditure from the user to in most cases a large plc, Carillian and the like. Lease back is just a business decision even in these times, if a company can get St Marys at a good price they might feel that the return is worth it. As I said its happened before.

[Guest Hacienda]

Now I get it. It's not that you're a *****, it's that you're that thick.

 

Yes, I shouldn't get insulting, but christ the new depths of ignorance really wind me up. We're definitely going down because we've been so **** we're not even in the relegation zone?

 

We are ****. We have no money. But there are plenty of **** teams about with no money. Stop ****ing whining about it and get on with supporting the team. If we sell others, so be it. **** happens.

 

All this categorisation is pathetic, it just highlights ignorance. You're insisted we're down and you're criticising some group you're conjured up who insist we won't. Well, you are in no place to say we will and they're in no place to say we won't. Neither group has any idea. One will end up saying they were right, but there's nothing right about claiming some knowledge of an unknown future, it's just ****ing stupid.

 

But no doubt you will read that (or not read it, as is the usual case) as me being in the latter group, which sadly renders all use of common sense largely useless. It's at that point that we all have to resort to insults sadly. So, *****.

 

Thick f u c k.

[Griffo]

But if we go into administration we wouldn't be assured we would get bought? I'm a bit unclear on it all..

 

..But say no-one bought us, St Mary's got sold.. Then Southampton Football Club is no more

 

We would have to form some ****ty spin off team in Southern Counties Premier or something, ground share with Eastleigh. I doubt even some would be arsed to make another spin off team and then that would truly be the end?

[hughieslastminutegoal]

I haven't really thought too much about the SLH and football club structure and maybe I'm completely off the wall but ...I'm pondering the possibility that something along the following lines might not be too far away from certain people's minds:

 

SLH and SFC separate as companies.

SFC become formal tenants of SLH stadium owner.

SFC reduces costs to absolute minimum so they can pay a rent, and pay cheap players/management etc out of gate revenue.

Hence the obscene rush to unload as many of the senior pros as possible.

 

SFC is really where the value is at the moment- i.e. the value of the franchise.

If the club can pay it's way, just maybe they then put SLH into administration.

Somone takes posession of the stadium and debts are written off on liquidation of SLH. (I don't know how much equity SLH has in the stadium, but it may just about be balanced by current debts.)

 

SFC soldiers on as a 'sellable franchise' with a tenancy of the stadium, with the same shareholders (more or less) as before. Maybe SFC could even keep Jackson's Farm if it was given to the club in the first place.

 

Maybe all this needs a bit of work, but could it be so far from the truth?

[up and away]

My view:

 

If we had gone down last season Administration was likely. We were living well beyond our income and no real chance of a quick fix.

 

If we go down this season there is every chance we will be able to avoid administration. I say this because the club are cutting their cloth and although it has some way to go there is more cost cutting to come.

 

It is my firm view that although Lowe and Wilde do not want us relegated, they are preparing the finances to be able to absorb the same should it occur and there is, as we all know, a strong chance of that at the moment.

 

You are more than likely correct, but it may turn out to be an option in very desperate times.. We have this millstone around our neck in the form of players salaries (still). If we get them coming back onto our books in January things look very bleak. Administration is to be avoided at nearly every cost imaginable but one. If we look nailed on to either slip into administration or go down, it may well be better to bring the inevitable forward to this season than to the next. That could give you the opportunity to get things sorted well before the next season took off, rather than during. Staying up last season was vital as it gives us a chance to blood the youth, such that they shall be far better prepared next season, what ever that may bring.

[Snowballs2]

Soon there will not be a club left to go into adminisration if the customer numbers keep declining