Mr X Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 Do you expect both Lowe and poorvliet to still be here? My answer is a firm yes, as I cant see anything changing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 Lowe will stay unless someone starts buying shares -however we do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 We aren't in the bottom three at the minute, but other than that yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 13 November, 2008 Author Share Posted 13 November, 2008 So basically all we have to go on is the hope that are inexperienced team miraculously "gells" together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 or carries on as it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 13 November, 2008 Author Share Posted 13 November, 2008 We aren't in the bottom three at the minute, but other than that yes. opps you are right a point separates us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 yep -thats all we need -why aim high and fail, we are on target! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff Saint Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 I was always, and still am, someone that thinks a manager should be given time and that means 18 months. However things seem to be getting worse under JP and relegation would be a disaster. Even finishing four from bottom would mean we had a platform for next year. As long as we are in or around the safety mark, and picking up the odd win, it's fair enough to stick with JP. I don't think long term he is the man, at all, but he needs a fair crack at the whip. If we stop getting these odd wins, he needs to go. I think this will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanfairoak Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 ::Lowe came to this club with nothing, and wont go without a big something. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 By January this question will have moved to March and the pleading will be that we must 'get behind the management'....... By March the question will have moved to April and the pleading will be that we must 'get behind the management'....... By April we won't have time to change anything and the pleading will be that we must 'get behind the management'....... By May we will be down, we won't have any money to make any changes anyway and the pleading will be that we must 'get behind the management'....... Lowe out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints67 Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 By January this question will have moved to March and the pleading will be that we must 'get behind the management'....... By March the question will have moved to April and the pleading will be that we must 'get behind the management'....... By April we won't have time to change anything and the pleading will be that we must 'get behind the management'....... By May we will be down, we won't have any money to make any changes anyway and the pleading will be that we must 'get behind the management'....... Lowe out. I bet every day is like Christmas Day in your house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 I bet every day is like Christmas Day in your house! Ha ha, I'm not a pessimist or an optomist, just a realist like most other fans. I'd be ecstatic with 4th from bottom to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South City Si Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 By January this question will have moved to March and the pleading will be that we must 'get behind the management'....... By March the question will have moved to April and the pleading will be that we must 'get behind the management'....... By April we won't have time to change anything and the pleading will be that we must 'get behind the management'....... By May we will be down, we won't have any money to make any changes anyway and the pleading will be that we must 'get behind the management'....... Lowe out. We don't have money now and this why he was brought in. I agree with your sentiments but in 'reality' we have no money to get anyone else in either players or manager. He is supposively an expert/experienced at manageing with no money and with only kids while still playing attractive and attacking football, which it is but with no end product! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Mockles Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 I have always stated that I won’t properly judge Poortvliet and Wotte (and Hockaday too for that matter as he is as heavily involved as anyone else yet not mentioned so much) until Christmas time. It’s fast approaching. Dec/January is a good barometer and time to set judgement imho. As many pundits have highlighted “If a team is rock bottom at Xmas, adrift with a poor points deficit, it is very unlikely they will climb out of the whole and survive the season”. Thankfully, Saints aren’t in that position but I will be extremely worried about the remaining season if we are in the bottom 3 and still failing to learn from our plethora of mistakes. Luckilly, Poorvliet seems to have begun praising (and playing) the experienced senior pros he was forced to leave out (injuries aside – Skacel & Euell) early season. This is a positive step but I question his actual influence over squad selection, as has been the subject or much debate and controversy. We may never know but I hope he is not over-ruled and we continue to include much needed experience, to at least support and steady the young nerves of kids playing against experienced men. We’ve seen some hope (The Preston come back away from home) but we have continuously failed (game after game) to build on the few victories we have won. They are isolated. We just need some back to back wins and confidence, I am sure, would sore. I am bemused why we can’t cancel loans (ok, agent cost possibly or part of a deal in Jan?!) and bring in some grit and experience (I reserve judgement on Pearce as I’ve heard good things, despite his age) Anyhow, waffling. Apologies. By Xmas, if results haven’t improved (and he keeps persisting with Mc Goldrick and not playing anyone else up front) I would seek a change in management. Sadly, I think it would only be on house (Wotte or, more likely, Hockaday) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 I might be being a bit picky here, but when I last looked we weren't in the bottom 3. Here's a link to check the table: http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/table/default.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 Do you expect both Lowe and Poortvliet to still be here? My answer is a firm yes, as I cant see anything changing I agree. Not because of anyone's ability to manage the squad, or the club, but because there isn't an alternative. As I've said before, the bridges have been burned. I'm pretty sure Jan Poortvliet is a really decent coach, but all he has is inexperienced youngsters at his disposal, who have hardly had a look in before, a few dispirited old pros that no other club wants, and a handicapped hero in Svensson. I honestly don't see anyone else doing better. This is as good as it gets, unless a major takeover is in the offing, and there isn't one. Get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 13 November, 2008 Author Share Posted 13 November, 2008 I might be being a bit picky here, but when I last looked we weren't in the bottom 3. Here's a link to check the table: http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/table/default.stm yep I got it wrong and its already been discussed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 IMO the main problem is communication, when JP speaks can't understand what he is on about, for the life of me I can't understand how he gets his point over to the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 I have always stated that I won’t properly judge Poortvliet and Wotte (and Hockaday too for that matter as he is as heavily involved as anyone else yet not mentioned so much) until Christmas time. It’s fast approaching. Dec/January is a good barometer and time to set judgement imho. As many pundits have highlighted “If a team is rock bottom at Xmas, adrift with a poor points deficit, it is very unlikely they will climb out of the whole and survive the season”. Thankfully, Saints aren’t in that position but I will be extremely worried about the remaining season if we are in the bottom 3 and still failing to learn from our plethora of mistakes. Luckilly, Poorvliet seems to have begun praising (and playing) the experienced senior pros he was forced to leave out (injuries aside – Skacel & Euell) early season. This is a positive step but I question his actual influence over squad selection, as has been the subject or much debate and controversy. We may never know but I hope he is not over-ruled and we continue to include much needed experience, to at least support and steady the young nerves of kids playing against experienced men. We’ve seen some hope (The Preston come back away from home) but we have continuously failed (game after game) to build on the few victories we have won. They are isolated. We just need some back to back wins and confidence, I am sure, would sore. I am bemused why we can’t cancel loans (ok, agent cost possibly or part of a deal in Jan?!) and bring in some grit and experience (I reserve judgement on Pearce as I’ve heard good things, despite his age) Anyhow, waffling. Apologies. By Xmas, if results haven’t improved (and he keeps persisting with Mc Goldrick and not playing anyone else up front) I would seek a change in management. Sadly, I think it would only be on house (Wotte or, more likely, Hockaday) As regards that point, a change of Management would not alter McGoldrick playing ........... It is common knowledge that it is at Lowe's insistance that he in the one "up front" ............. I don't give a stuff what "others" may say ........ and if Lowe were to deny it, then IMHO, he'd be failing to tell the truth. MANAGERS at St Mary's are but Glove Puppets ......... , with NO backbone. The one to get rid of, is the one with their hand firmly shoved up the Puppets 'Rse .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 13 November, 2008 Author Share Posted 13 November, 2008 Interested to know how many people feel poorvliet isn't a good manger and how many feel its just simply a case of him not being allowed to "manage" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 As regards that point, a change of Management would not alter McGoldrick playing ........... It is common knowledge that it is at Lowe's insistance that he in the one "up front" ............. I don't give a stuff what "others" may say ........ and if Lowe were to deny it, then IMHO, he'd be failing to tell the truth.MANAGERS at St Mary's are but Glove Puppets ......... , with NO backbone. The one to get rid of, is the one with their hand firmly shoved up the Puppets 'Rse .......... Now that would not be a first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 I might be being a bit picky here, but when I last looked we weren't in the bottom 3. Here's a link to check the table: http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/table/default.stm Let's review that siuation after Saturday shall we? If we are not in the bottom 3 by then we will have had a brilliant weekend (unless watford continue to do us a favour). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 IMO, Saints are 3-4 players short of quality. We don't have an affordable quality striker who can regularly score goals given the right service, or a decent partner for him. McGoldrick will be a fine player in time, but it'll take a couple of seasons. The defence needs to be more solid, and our only defender of real quality is handicapped by injury. Tbh, in general the midfield are fine. What I don't like to see is an already shaky squad of players are going to be thinned out even more come January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 Ha ha, I'm not a pessimist or an optomist, just a realist like most other fans. I'd be ecstatic with 4th from bottom to be honest. can you point to how we can improve our chances of doing just that, perhaps with a new person at the helm as you request and with that person facing the same financial restrictions (and please don't popint to past mistakes as we all know them)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Shot Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 (edited) Lowe will stay unless someone starts buying shares -however we do Or those who already have shares see sense and vote against him, come the eagerly awaited, but not yet announced AGM. Edited 13 November, 2008 by Long Shot spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 IMO, Saints are 3-4 players short of quality. We don't have an affordable quality striker who can regularly score goals given the right service, or a decent partner for him. McGoldrick will be a fine player in time, but it'll take a couple of seasons. The defence needs to be more solid, and our only defender of real quality is handicapped by injury. Tbh, in general the midfield are fine. What I don't like to see is an already shaky squad of players are going to be thinned out even more come January. McGoldrik has 7 in 19 (and has played right wing in quite a few games) whilst Stern had 10 at the same stage last season (and we faired reasonably well in those 19 games compared to this time round). I actually think we are not missing Stern much to be honest. I think our real problem is a lack of bite in centre midfield, a totally unsettled back four (due to suspensions and injuries) and no right midfielder. Added to this a lack of height throughout the side that has seen us vulnerable to set pieces. The formation also hampers us at times. It may well be playing to our strengths (passing) as we flood the midfield, see a lot of the ball and dominate posession. What it tends to do though is make us flatter to deceive as everything is in front of the oppsition and not enough bodies actually get in the box. Without doubt there is a lack of quality throughout the side. Wotton may drag the average age up a bit but he certainly does not increase our quality. There is also a lack of pysical presence especially at the back, and down the centre of midfield. Wotton should be ideal but he is so slow he chases shadows rather than makes tackles. I don't have the answers but getting Euell intot he side is a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 Lowe will stay, 7 games from the end of the season, with relegation beckoning, he will appoint an ex-player with many years experience as a defender in the English leagues who has gained useful experience coaching as an assistant at top clubs who will come in, sort things out and save us on the last day. Lowe will then place an extensive piece on the OS setting out this as proof that he is a football genius; grateful fans will bow in humility and agree he is God, and there will never again be any hint of criticism of him on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 Do you expect both Lowe and poorvliet to still be here? My answer is a firm yes, as I cant see anything changing we are not in the bottom three at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 13 November, 2008 Author Share Posted 13 November, 2008 Lowe will stay, 7 games from the end of the season, with relegation beckoning, he will appoint an ex-player with many years experience as a defender in the English leagues who has gained useful experience coaching as an assistant at top clubs who will come in, sort things out and save us on the last day. Lowe will then place an extensive piece on the OS setting out this as proof that he is a football genius; grateful fans will bow in humility and agree he is God, and there will never again be any hint of criticism of him on this forum. and then we woke up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Saint Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 Even if we are in the bottom 3 in May in cant see any changes in Manager or Chairman until we are sold or go bust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 13 November, 2008 Author Share Posted 13 November, 2008 we are not in the bottom three at the moment! I know, read the previous posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertySFC Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 The crux of this post is , if we are in the bottom 3 at the end of january , what players would Jp have at his disposal to use, following the transfer window. It may that the like of AL or DS could be sold , who else goes is any bodys guess, if a decent offer is made for any of the players they are sure to be taken very seriously in order to "balance the books". If this does occur , remember the last January window , players leaving on the last day , no time to replace those who left, only with load deals, which is what we have at the moment. My concern is if we are in the bottom 3 at this period of time , we won't have the players who could scrape a few wins Maybe the press confrence next week will enligten some thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 The crux of this post is , if we are in the bottom 3 at the end of january , what players would Jp have at his disposal to use, following the transfer window. It may that the like of AL or DS could be sold , who else goes is any bodys guess, if a decent offer is made for any of the players they are sure to be taken very seriously in order to "balance the books". If this does occur , remember the last January window , players leaving on the last day , no time to replace those who left, only with load deals, which is what we have at the moment. My concern is if we are in the bottom 3 at this period of time , we won't have the players who could scrape a few wins Maybe the press confrence next week will enligten some thing... What press conference ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack rill Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 we are not in the bottom three at the moment! Don't be to hasty......Just Wait a fortnight it will all change;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 having just heard the ramblings of Adams on sky sports I wouldn't get too ****y! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 can you point to how we can improve our chances of doing just that, perhaps with a new person at the helm as you request and with that person facing the same financial restrictions (and please don't popint to past mistakes as we all know them)? I'm not particularly interested in getting rid of JP, he was parachuted in by Lowe and for better or worse is the man incharge. Very hard to judge JP TBH under present circumstances. I do question what Wotte is doing. If we are that strapped for cash do we really need him? That said it's not the first team management I have issue with. It's Lowe, probably the most divisive figure in this club's entire history. Just by coming back he split the fanbase and then his first decision was to get rid of a popular manager and rub salt into the wounds. I think we'd be lower mid table with NP but thats all history now. He is a big part of the reason why a lot of fans are absent, though the results don't exactly make staying away and saving a load of cash a gut wrenching decision TBH. He is also a 'one trick pony' chairman who seems to concentrate solely on slashing costs without thinking about the effect on future revenue. His chairmanship is death by a thousand cuts, sell best players, crowds reduce, sell best players, crowd reduce a bit more ad infinitum. I think we may drop down to 10k this season, unbelievable really considering we we in the 30k range 5 seasons ago. He may be in a tight spot now but he's always been like this, even when we were getting all the sky cash and had crowds of 32,000. I lost count of the amount of times I thought we was oh so quick to offload our best players and replace them with lesser players. It's a recipe for slow death as we are currently witnessing. When a club is in a bad place as we are at the moment it seems dumb to install a chairman who puts the back up of most of the fans. We need unity, not division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 I'm not particularly interested in getting rid of JP, he was parachuted in by Lowe and for better or worse is the man incharge. Very hard to judge JP TBH under present circumstances. I do question what Wotte is doing. If we are that strapped for cash do we really need him? That said it's not the first team management I have issue with. It's Lowe, probably the most divisive figure in this club's entire history. Just by coming back he split the fanbase and then his first decision was to get rid of a popular manager and rub salt into the wounds. I think we'd be lower mid table with NP but thats all history now. He is a big part of the reason why a lot of fans are absent, though the results don't exactly make staying away and saving a load of cash a gut wrenching decision TBH. He is also a 'one trick pony' chairman who seems to concentrate solely on slashing costs without thinking about the effect on future revenue. His chairmanship is death by a thousand cuts, sell best players, crowds reduce, sell best players, crowd reduce a bit more ad infinitum. I think we may drop down to 10k this season, unbelievable really considering we we in the 30k range 5 seasons ago. He may be in a tight spot now but he's always been like this, even when we were getting all the sky cash and had crowds of 32,000. I lost count of the amount of times I thought we was oh so quick to offload our best players and replace them with lesser players. It's a recipe for slow death as we are currently witnessing. When a club is in a bad place as we are at the moment it seems dumb to install a chairman who puts the back up of most of the fans. We need unity, not division. Because we had no players coming through from the Academy we had to spend the tranfer budget on getting in the whole team as oppossed to getting in 60 percent of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 I'm not particularly interested in getting rid of JP, he was parachuted in by Lowe and for better or worse is the man incharge. Very hard to judge JP TBH under present circumstances. I do question what Wotte is doing. If we are that strapped for cash do we really need him? That said it's not the first team management I have issue with. It's Lowe, probably the most divisive figure in this club's entire history. Just by coming back he split the fanbase and then his first decision was to get rid of a popular manager and rub salt into the wounds. I think we'd be lower mid table with NP but thats all history now. He is a big part of the reason why a lot of fans are absent, though the results don't exactly make staying away and saving a load of cash a gut wrenching decision TBH. He is also a 'one trick pony' chairman who seems to concentrate solely on slashing costs without thinking about the effect on future revenue. His chairmanship is death by a thousand cuts, sell best players, crowds reduce, sell best players, crowd reduce a bit more ad infinitum. I think we may drop down to 10k this season, unbelievable really considering we we in the 30k range 5 seasons ago. He may be in a tight spot now but he's always been like this, even when we were getting all the sky cash and had crowds of 32,000. I lost count of the amount of times I thought we was oh so quick to offload our best players and replace them with lesser players. It's a recipe for slow death as we are currently witnessing. When a club is in a bad place as we are at the moment it seems dumb to install a chairman who puts the back up of most of the fans. We need unity, not division. isn't Wotte sort of replacing likes of Prost? I know roles have changed but didn't think he was additional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 IMO, Saints are 34 players short of quality. We don't have an quality striker WHO HASN'T BEEN LOANED OUT who can regularly score goals given the right service, or a decent partner for ANYONE. McGoldrick will be a fine player in time, but ONLY WHEN HELL FREEZES OVER (OR AFTER HE HAS BEEN SOLD NEXT SUMMER). The defence needs to be more solid, and our only defender of real quality is handicapped by injury BUT STILL BETTER THAN OUR FIT PLAYERS. Tbh, in general the midfield are TOO NUMEROUS TO MENTION. What I don't like to see is an already INFERIOR squad of players are going to be thinned out even more come January. Ahhhh...that looks better. )) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreog Posted 13 November, 2008 Share Posted 13 November, 2008 Any change is not an option..... nobody else would want to come to SMS.......the club has been a pariah within the league for years.........just have to get on with what there is...........however unpalatable that may be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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