LIVE DEBATE: The EU - in or out - Clegg vs Farage

[eurosaint]

I'd be very interested to read about his policies for health, education, social services, police, armed forces etc etc etc

 

He's a one trick pony

 

And a one man party !

 

Although he was quite impressive last night, even more so as Clegg was an embarrassment, reminding me of Red Ed responding to the budget speech with empty rhetoric and the politics of envy !

Come on Nigel, join the Tories, you know that you want to really

[Barry Sanchez]

And a one man party !

 

Although he was quite impressive last night, even more so as Clegg was an embarrassment, reminding me of Red Ed responding to the budget speech with empty rhetoric and the politics of envy !

Come on Nigel, join the Tories, you know that you want to really

 

Why? He would be ostracized like all Euro sceptics have been by all the parties, the mainstream parties have lost the plot on this, their arrogance in telling us from Surrey that everything is ok when they have never been or would not dare to venture in places like Burnley, Oldham, Dewsbury and the like, a liberal experiment gone wrong to the detriment of the working man.

[JackFrost]

UKIP just support anything that is popular regardless of whether it'll work, and Nigel "Everything is the EU's fault" Farage has been the best at getting into the 'alternative to the big 3 parties' spot. They may win a few MPs in the next few elections but their actually reminding me of the Lib Dems, saying anything they want because they know they'll never get into power. As soon as Farage goes they'll slide.

 

As for Nick Clegg I'm struggling to remember when he had any credibility. The comments above about him sounding like Miliband don't surprise me in the slightest.

[pap]

The roots of Clegg's failure lie in the prior opportunism of the Lib Dems. This was a party that campaigned for an in-out referendum back in 2009. Clegg's problem now is exactly the same as it was during tuition fees. Says one thing and does another.

 

2009 was only five years ago. None of the issues that existed then have been dealt with in any meaningful way, so people are naturally going to wonder why the Lib Dem's have changed their minds so much in the interim. The answer that most will reach is that they didn't really believe it in the first place. Correctly, in my opinion.

[pap]

Miliband shítting himself over Farage being on leadership debates next year.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/03/nigel-farage-tv-election-debates-ed-miliband

[solentstars]

Miliband shítting himself over Farage being on leadership debates next year.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/03/nigel-farage-tv-election-debates-ed-miliband[/quotewhy allow someone who has no MPs in parliament to share a platform with the major parties.Cameron will not share a platform either and I expect there will be no ukip MPs in parliament at the next election has always been the case in the past .

 

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[pap]

Miliband shítting himself over Farage being on leadership debates next year.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/03/nigel-farage-tv-election-debates-ed-miliband

 

why allow someone who has no MPs in parliament to share a platform with the major parties.Cameron will not share a platform either and I expect there will be no ukip MPs in parliament at the next election has always been the case in the past .

 

UKIP polled almost a million votes at the last general election and would have got 20 seats under a proportional system. Seems as if you're using the outcome of a bad electoral system to justify the disenfranchisement of not only those voters, but all the voters UKIP have picked up in the interim.

 

If they take a sizeable chunk of these MEP elections, what then?

[solentstars]

UKIP polled almost a million votes at the last general election and would have got 20 seats under a proportional system. Seems as if you're using the outcome of a bad electoral system to justify the disenfranchisement of not only those voters, but all the voters UKIP have picked up in the interim.

 

If they take a sizeable chunk of these MEP elections, what then?

 

2.2 votes of population in 2005 then 3% at last election but I think there was a vote to change the voting system recently which I expect a lot of ukips voters voted to keep the present system.I believe there should be pr but at the moment I deal with how it is and you know most of those who vote at the euro election will not vote ukip in a general election except those who believe in the cause.

 

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Edited 3 April, 2014 by solentstars

[pap]

2.2 votes of population in 2005 then 3% at last election but I think there was a vote to change the voting system recently which I expect a lot of ukips voters voted to keep the present system.I believe there should be pr but at the moment I deal with how it is and you know most of those who vote at the euro election will not vote ukip in a general election except those who believe in the cause.

 

We also know Clegg has no chance of being Prime Minister, yet he'll be in the debate.

[View From The Top]

We also know Clegg has no chance of being Prime Minister, yet he'll be in the debate.

 

The debate should be between leaders of the main Westminster parties and not those who are leaders of parties with no representation at all.

 

During the Euro elections and the like, by all means, but not national elections whilst they aren't represented in parliament.

[pap]

The debate should be between leaders of the main Westminster parties and not those who are leaders of parties with no representation at all.

 

During the Euro elections and the like, by all means, but not national elections whilst they aren't represented in parliament.

 

I'd disagree. The share of the popular vote is more important.

[View From The Top]

I'd disagree. The share of the popular vote is more important.

 

Then the Greens would also have their place at the lectern.

[pap]

Then the Greens would also have their place at the lectern.

 

Why not?

 

Personally, I'm sick of hearing the same on message stuff from people who have an agenda, but do everything to avoid stating what it actually is, largely involving broad platitudes about a vision for Britain.

 

It was fun seeing Farage in the EU debates. Given the pea souper we've currently got outside ( amusing given Dave's environmental credentials ), it might not be bad to hear from someone with green ideas front and centre.

 

That said, the Greens only polled 289K votes out of 30M, and haven't made the sort of progress that UKIP have. They're frequently the third party in elections they contest and it'll be difficult to deny Farage the opportunity to speak if, as i suspect, UKIP do very well in the MEP elections next month.

Edited 3 April, 2014 by pap

[Wes Tender]

UKIP exists as a party for one reason alone, to get us out of Europe. Some have asked what their policies are on other subjects like education, health, taxation, defence, housing, etc, but they don't need to make firm policy commitments on anything except Europe and how it affects those other areas. The forthcoming European elections are their main focus and I expect them to gain a massive increase in their vote, which will worry the hell out of the established parties who will be nervous about whether their support will translate into votes during a General Election. If they wished to lance the boil that is the European question, the solution is in their hands; hold a referendum before the General Election, using the dissident vote in the European Elections as the excuse to justify it. Clegg's assertion that one cannot be held whilst the economic recovery is still fragile holds no water.

 

The Conservatives promise a referendum in 2017, but can only fulfil that promise if they are elected with a clear majority. Why do we have to wait that long? If we have a hung Parliament, which is fairly likely, then there might be scope for putting it off yet again. The British public are thoroughly fed up with the constant procrastination over the past several years and are in a mood to give the main parties a good kicking over it. A strong showing by UKIP next month will have the other parties falling over each other to put clear water between themselves on the issue. It could even turn out that Farage is the king maker after the election. Once the European question is settled to UKIP's satisfaction, then they will have no real raison d'etre for their existence.

 

Clegg's poor judgement in calling for this televised debate has given the UKIP bandwagon a hefty push and damaged Clegg and his party's chances in both the European and General Elections. Cameron has sought to label UKIP's stance as negative, as did the boy Clegg, but I suspect that the majority of the voting public see many more negatives in our membership than would be produced by our leaving.

[moonraker]

UKIP polled almost a million votes at the last general election and would have got 20 seats under a proportional system. Seems as if you're using the outcome of a bad electoral system to justify the disenfranchisement of not only those voters, but all the voters UKIP have picked up in the interim.

 

If they take a sizeable chunk of these MEP elections, what then?

 

The irony is I bet the majority of UKIP supporters voted against a PR system.

[solentstars]

UKIP exists as a party for one reason alone, to get us out of Europe. Some have asked what their policies are on other subjects like education, health, taxation, defence, housing, etc, but they don't need to make firm policy commitments on anything except Europe and how it affects those other areas. The forthcoming European elections are their main focus and I expect them to gain a massive increase in their vote, which will worry the hell out of the established parties who will be nervous about whether their support will translate into votes during a General Election. If they wished to lance the boil that is the European question, the solution is in their hands; hold a referendum before the General Election, using the dissident vote in the European Elections as the excuse to justify it. Clegg's assertion that one cannot be held whilst the economic recovery is still fragile holds no water.

 

The Conservatives promise a referendum in 2017, but can only fulfil that promise if they are elected with a clear majority. Why do we have to wait that long? If we have a hung Parliament, which is fairly likely, then there might be scope for putting it off yet again. The British public are thoroughly fed up with the constant procrastination over the past several years and are in a mood to give the main parties a good kicking over it. A strong showing by UKIP next month will have the other parties falling over each other to put clear water between themselves on the issue. It could even turn out that Farage is the king maker after the election. Once the European question is settled to UKIP's satisfaction, then they will have no real raison d'etre for their existence.

 

Clegg's poor judgement in calling for this televised debate has given the UKIP bandwagon a hefty push and damaged Clegg and his party's chances in both the European and General Elections. Cameron has sought to label UKIP's stance as negative, as did the boy Clegg, but I suspect that the majority of the voting public see many more negatives in our membership than would be produced by our leaving.

 

Don't think it will make much difference how ukip does in the euro elections has they performed very well in the last EU elections and did nothing in the general election.at the moment a vast part of there support comes mainlly from former tories of the elderly persuasion and all Cameron is worried about how it effect his party in those swing seats and hope they come back into the fold .

 

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[pap]

The irony is I bet the majority of UKIP supporters voted against a PR system.

 

It's a superficially good point, but might some take the view that the main aim is to put pressure on the main political parties by eroding their FPTP votes?

 

If a main party pulled a referendum rabbit out of the hat just before the election, they'd attract a lot of votes and UKIP would get one of their stated objectives if that pledge was honoured post-election. Maybe it's the ends, not the means, that are of interest to the majority of UKIP's supporters.

 

I share the concerns of many about the depth of UKIP. Some of their supporters on Twitter could do with a digital rabies shot; they got it bad. I do have a lot of sympathy with their prime objective though. The EU has become something of a millstone, and no-one, least of all Clegg, is offering satisfactory solutions or telling the truth about the full extent of immigration. This consumption based study of immigration suggests a UK population of 77 million.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/city-eye-facts-on-a-plate-our-population-is-at-least-77-million-395428.html

 

My take is that I wouldn't really want them governing, but I think they're an excellent mechanism for a protest vote. The upcoming MEP elections are the perfect opportunity; Clegg has poured petrol on the bonfire with this limp and intellectually dishonest performance. If the UK returns a load of UKIP MEPs to go to Brussels, really the ultimate "Fúck EU", main parties can no longer avoid the R word.

[Wes Tender]

Don't think it will make much difference how ukip does in the euro elections has they performed very well in the last EU elections and did nothing in the general election.at the moment a vast part of there support comes mainlly from former tories of the elderly persuasion and all Cameron is worried about how it effect his party in those swing seats and hope they come back into the fold .

 

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Naive to make comparisons between the situation 5 years ago and now. The circumstances are completely different. Since then, there has subsequently been a General Election where once again the electorate had been promised a referendum and again that promise has been broken. Then there is the additional factor of Romanians and Bulgarians having the unfettered right to come here, plus the collapse of the Greek economy with Italy's and Spain's not far behind. Additionally, we have had a further 5 years of recession with the attendant pressures on employment and the growing resentment when jobs are taken by immigrants from the old Eastern Block states.

 

But if you believe that despite all of those changed factors since the last time around that everything will be the same, I think you you will be proved wrong. After a strong UKIP victory in the European Elections, there will be a lot of tactical voting in the more marginal seats. Yes, it might affect the Tory vote, but since the By-election in Eastleigh and the TV debate, the Lib Dems might find themselves replaced as the protest vote, where tactical voting swings to UKIP to get rid of an MP from a party those voters despise. Take Eastleigh as an example. As a Tory, I can't stand the Lib Dems, but have the opportunity of switching my vote behind UKIP to unseat them if I wish. Ditto the Labour vote might realise that they have no chance of getting their candidate elected and do likewise to punish the Lib Dems for their alliance with the Conservatives. In some seats where the Conservatives don't poll well traditionally, they might not put forward a candidate, allowing a populist UKIP candidate a clear run at Labour or the Lib Dems. It will be very difficult to predict how things might turn out in a General Election if the UKIP bandwagon achieves spectacular success in the Elections next month. That is why if they had any sense, the main parties would call a referendum before the General Election, pulling the rug from under UKIP's feet.

[Saintandy666]

The roots of Clegg's failure lie in the prior opportunism of the Lib Dems. This was a party that campaigned for an in-out referendum back in 2009. Clegg's problem now is exactly the same as it was during tuition fees. Says one thing and does another.

 

2009 was only five years ago. None of the issues that existed then have been dealt with in any meaningful way, so people are naturally going to wonder why the Lib Dem's have changed their minds so much in the interim. The answer that most will reach is that they didn't really believe it in the first place. Correctly, in my opinion.

 

It was within the context of the Lisbon Treaty which meant more powers being transferred. This is entirely consistent with the current policy - an in/out referendum at the time of power hand-over. The battle for the in/out referendum at that point was lost by the Lib Dems back then and they abandoned their pledge within the lisbon treaty context once it was ratified.

 

However, they have put into law whilst in government that will be a referendum at the next power handover/treaty. So an entirely consistent policy from the Liberal Democrats.

[pap]

It was within the context of the Lisbon Treaty which meant more powers being transferred. This is entirely consistent with the current policy - an in/out referendum at the time of power hand-over. The battle for the in/out referendum at that point was lost by the Lib Dems back then and they abandoned their pledge within the lisbon treaty context once it was ratified.

 

However, they have put into law whilst in government that will be a referendum at the next power handover/treaty. So an entirely consistent policy from the Liberal Democrats.

 

[Saintandy666]

Yes, indeed. The leaflet is correct. But again, it is within the context of the proposed handover of powers in relation to the lisbon treaty signing. It is Liberal Democrat policy(and still is) that there should be an in/out referendum at the time of power handover. That's what they campaigned for (and failed) back then and that is what they have signed into law whilst in government.

[hypochondriac]

Yes, indeed. The leaflet is correct. But again, it is within the context of the proposed handover of powers in relation to the lisbon treaty signing. It is Liberal Democrat policy(and still is) that there should be an in/out referendum at the time of power handover. That's what they campaigned for (and failed) back then and that is what they have signed into law whilst in government.

 

Do you think clegg won the debate?

[derry]

Don't think it will make much difference how ukip does in the euro elections has they performed very well in the last EU elections and did nothing in the general election.at the moment a vast part of there support comes mainlly from former tories of the elderly persuasion and all Cameron is worried about how it effect his party in those swing seats and hope they come back into the fold .

 

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What they did do was cost the Conservatives seats, eg. Itchen. They polled more votes than the majority. I can see a deal between UKIP and the Conservatives, withdrawing candidates where Conservative candidates agree to campaign for an out vote.

[aintforever]

Yes, indeed. The leaflet is correct. But again, it is within the context of the proposed handover of powers in relation to the lisbon treaty signing. It is Liberal Democrat policy(and still is) that there should be an in/out referendum at the time of power handover. That's what they campaigned for (and failed) back then and that is what they have signed into law whilst in government.

 

That argument is a complete cop out, it's nonsense like that which makes me hate politicians.

 

Wether it is before the event or after it is irrelevant, we still havn't had a say.

[solentstars]

Naive to make comparisons between the situation 5 years ago and now. The circumstances are completely different. Since then, there has subsequently been a General Election where once again the electorate had been promised a referendum and again that promise has been broken. Then there is the additional factor of Romanians and Bulgarians having the unfettered right to come here, plus the collapse of the Greek economy with Italy's and Spain's not far behind. Additionally, we have had a further 5 years of recession with the attendant pressures on employment and the growing resentment when jobs are taken by immigrants from the old Eastern Block states.

 

But if you believe that despite all of those changed factors since the last time around that everything will be the same, I think you you will be proved wrong. After a strong UKIP victory in the European Elections, there will be a lot of tactical voting in the more marginal seats. Yes, it might affect the Tory vote, but since the By-election in Eastleigh and the TV debate, the Lib Dems might find themselves replaced as the protest vote, where tactical voting swings to UKIP to get rid of an MP from a party those voters despise. Take Eastleigh as an example. As a Tory, I can't stand the Lib Dems, but have the opportunity of switching my vote behind UKIP to unseat them if I wish. Ditto the Labour vote might realise that they have no chance of getting their candidate elected and do likewise to punish the Lib Dems for their alliance with the Conservatives. In some seats where the Conservatives don't poll well traditionally, they might not put forward a candidate, allowing a populist UKIP candidate a clear run at Labour or the Lib Dems. It will be very difficult to predict how things might turn out in a General Election if the UKIP bandwagon achieves spectacular success in the Elections next month. That is why if they had any sense, the main parties would call a referendum before the General Election, pulling the rug from under UKIP's feet.

 

Its total fantasy ukip will not get one mp elected at the next general election and the main party's would not give them a clear run as they have no need to.its economy which win elections.that's the real world.

 

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[pap]

Its total fantasy ukip will not get one mp elected at the next general election and the main party's would not give them a clear run as they have no need to.its economy which win elections.that's the real world.

 

Fantasy. Fantasy. Fantasy.

 

Careful, Nick

[solentstars]

What they did do was cost the Conservatives seats, eg. Itchen. They polled more votes than the majority. I can see a deal between UKIP and the Conservatives, withdrawing candidates where Conservative candidates agree to campaign for an out vote.

 

Don't think central office will allow it under Cameron.

 

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[Saintandy666]

Do you think clegg won the debate?

 

Last week, for me, Clegg won easily with his calm and collected argument. This week was less of a debate and more angry exchanges from both. I think Clegg did well to show his passion, but Farage's argument had little depth and I definitely think that many of his party's idea's are a danger to the country and not least exiting the EU. The flat rate tax, the abolition of education as we know it and so on and so forth.

 

In terms of the 'winner', they both probably won by getting decent percent behind them. Farage was always going to win outright though just as Clegg was at the election debates in 2010 as they could both play the anti-establishment protest card.

[Saintandy666]

That argument is a complete cop out, it's nonsense like that which makes me hate politicians.

 

Wether it is before the event or after it is irrelevant, we still havn't had a say.

 

Indeed you haven't and if you want an instant referendum vote UKIP, and get the baggage that comes with that. If you want a referendum at the right moment, i.e when something actually changes vote Lib Dem. And that is what people have got with the coalition. An absolute guarantee in law that there will be a referendum come power changing hands.

[Trader]

Its total fantasy ukip will not get one mp elected at the next general election and the main party's would not give them a clear run as they have no need to.its economy which win elections.that's the real world.

 

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Not only does your total lack of any sort of punctuation render many of your posts completely ambiguous but I find it almost impossible to want to reach the end of many of them or indeed to hold my breath long enough to be able to read any of your sentences.

 

Gasp.

[Wes Tender]

The boy Clegg's leaflet and his utterences in the debate debacle:-

 

We can work together to tackle the threat of terrorism and crime

 

Why do we need to be in Europe to be able to do that? What is Interpol for then? That's been about for decades before even the Common Market. And surely the freedom of movement across national borders makes it far more difficult to track terrorists or criminals.

 

Dear Saintandy, ever ready to overlook the shortcomings of his hero Cleggy and to deny the damage that he has done his beloved party by his stupidity in going head to head with Farage. And what is this abolition of education as we know it that he insists is proposed by Farage? Cleggy chided Farage for wishing to turn the clocks back. Has Farage proposed a return to the three R's and less easily achievable exam passes?

 

I also agree with Derry, that it is a distinct possibility that there could well be some horse trading between the Conservatives and UKIP that candidates won't stand in certain seats in return for a pledge to support a tough line on European membership.

[hypochondriac]

Indeed you haven't and if you want an instant referendum vote UKIP, and get the baggage that comes with that. If you want a referendum at the right moment, i.e when something actually changes vote Lib Dem. And that is what people have got with the coalition. An absolute guarantee in law that there will be a referendum come power changing hands.

 

Do you have any sort of criticism for the liberal Democrats? Serious question because your last two replies on here seem seriously deluded. You sound like the chief spin doctor from the Lib Dems who was on the BBC last night.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The debate should be between leaders of the main Westminster parties and not those who are leaders of parties with no representation at all.

 

During the Euro elections and the like, by all means, but not national elections whilst they aren't represented in parliament.

 

By the time of the debates ukip will have the same number of MPs as the lib/dumbs, labour and Tories.

 

The biggest mistake the establishment can make will be colluding to exclude Nigel from the debate. It will play right into the" people's army fighting the establishment " line.

 

Roll on may, fingers crossed cleggy will lose all his MEP's and come the election they'll be back to 1970 levels. What a disaster they've been in government. Laws fiddling his expenses, CH in clink , Lord fatso running around like Benny hill, cable stabbing cleggy in the back , its like "Carry on Westminster" .Sandal wearers get one shot at power and its with a Tory toff and they destroyed themselves. Lol.

[Saintandy666]

Do you have any sort of criticism for the liberal Democrats? Serious question because your last two replies on here seem seriously deluded. You sound like the chief spin doctor from the Lib Dems who was on the BBC last night.

 

Yes. I do have disagreements. No party can possibly represent one person's view on everything.

[WindsorSaint]

My old grandfather told me when I was a nipper that the Tories are the natural party for government, Labour natural opposition, and if you need a party to run the tombola at a primary school fete then...

[solentstars]

By the time of the debates ukip will have the same number of MPs as the lib/dumbs, labour and Tories.

 

The biggest mistake the establishment can make will be colluding to exclude Nigel from the debate. It will play right into the" people's army fighting the establishment " line.

 

Roll on may, fingers crossed cleggy will lose all his MEP's and come the election they'll be back to 1970 levels. What a disaster they've been in government. Laws fiddling his expenses, CH in clink , Lord fatso running around like Benny hill, cable stabbing cleggy in the back , its like "Carry on Westminster" .Sandal wearers get one shot at power and its with a Tory toff and they destroyed themselves. Lol.

 

Another petty hate dig.I think you forgot that policy which takes a lot of the poorest and a lot of lowest pay out of taxation soon to be 105000 a lib policy .I think the present coalition have done well.

 

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[solentstars]

By the time of the debates ukip will have the same number of MPs as the lib/dumbs, labour and Tories.

 

The biggest mistake the establishment can make will be colluding to exclude Nigel from the debate. It will play right into the" people's army fighting the establishment " line.

 

Roll on may, fingers crossed cleggy will lose all his MEP's and come the election they'll be back to 1970 levels. What a disaster they've been in government. Laws fiddling his expenses, CH in clink , Lord fatso running around like Benny hill, cable stabbing cleggy in the back , its like "Carry on Westminster" .Sandal wearers get one shot at power and its with a Tory toff and they destroyed themselves. Lol.

 

Peoples army lead by a former Tory investment banker private education the sort which got this country in this mess .laughing how gullible his supporters are while he lines his own pockets .stuffed with former reactionary thatcherite like that crook Neil Hamilton sums them up but at least when they play the immigration card it stops the BNP getting a lot of its natural support.

 

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[Barry Sanchez]

My old grandfather told me when I was a nipper that the Tories are the natural party for government, Labour natural opposition, and if you need a party to run the tombola at a primary school fete then...

 

They could not do that as they would argue you have to have all the colours on tickets and not solely one as its discrimination............

[Barry Sanchez]

Peoples army lead by a former Tory investment banker private education the sort which got this country in this mess .laughing how gullible his supporters are while he lines his own pockets .stuffed with former reactionary thatcherite like that crook Neil Hamilton sums them up but at least when they play the immigration card it stops the BNP getting a lot of its natural support.

 

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People like you throw that around, you are the real enemy of the Country, at least with a tory you know what you are getting (a snidey little shiete who would sell his own mother but a person who cares his/her Country in the main).

The extreme left has turned this into something to be ashamed of, ie looking after your Countries interests first, the liberal elite is/are and always will be ashamed of this Country, maybe they should learn about the liberals and their history and leave the Country and go and live in a Nation they are happy in.

 

This comes from a person who has been in the Labour Party (no left) for nearly 20 years in total, I will go back in once that nasal tawt Miliband elitist has gone and the shadow cabinet is more grounded and less public school freinds club.

[solentstars]

People like you throw that around, you are the real enemy of the Country, at least with a tory you know what you are getting (a snidey little shiete who would sell his own mother but a person who cares his/her Country in the main).

The extreme left has turned this into something to be ashamed of, ie looking after your Countries interests first, the liberal elite is/are and always will be ashamed of this Country, maybe they should learn about the liberals and their history and leave the Country and go and live in a Nation they are happy in.

 

This comes from a person who has been in the Labour Party (no left) for nearly 20 years in total, I will go back in once that nasal tawt Miliband elitist has gone and the shadow cabinet is more grounded and less public school freinds club.

 

Barry your stuck in the 1970s and it makes me laugh how much in common that Marxists and thatcherite types both want us out of the EU.the fact is its never going to happen under the main party's because of our national interest .anyone can shout from the sidelines but once in power you have responsibilitys when dealing with reality's of government .

 

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[Verbal]

My old grandfather told me when I was a nipper that the Tories are the natural party for government, Labour natural opposition, and if you need a party to run the tombola at a primary school fete then...

 

The 'natural party of government' has not won an outright majority at a general election in more than two decades. You have to go back to 1992. Most students at university today, for example, weren't even born then.

[solentstars]

People like you throw that around, you are the real enemy of the Country, at least with a tory you know what you are getting (a snidey little shiete who would sell his own mother but a person who cares his/her Country in the main).

The extreme left has turned this into something to be ashamed of, ie looking after your Countries interests first, the liberal elite is/are and always will be ashamed of this Country, maybe they should learn about the liberals and their history and leave the Country and go and live in a Nation they are happy in.

 

This comes from a person who has been in the Labour Party (no left) for nearly 20 years in total, I will go back in once that nasal tawt Miliband elitist has gone and the shadow cabinet is more grounded and less public school freinds club.

 

I think you need to meet real working class people Barry because the only ones I met with those views you seem to hold are the far left and far right .dictator types and I think that post about traitors to our own country shows how silly that little rant is. waiting for your next little slogan .

 

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[Barry Sanchez]

I think you need to meet real working class people Barry because the only ones I met with those views you seem to hold are the far left and far right .dictator types and I think that post about traitors to our own country shows how silly that little rant is. waiting for your next little slogan .

 

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You appear to hate and resent the Country you reside in, bitter about something, a typical liberal trait, the left and right have never hated England, the modern liberal has always despised it and looked towards Brussels as their Capital.

Move to Belgium as it would appear you are happier, I could not stand it living in a Country I hate, it would boil my ****.

[Lord Duckhunter]

You appear to hate and resent the Country you reside in, bitter about something, a typical liberal trait, the left and right have never hated England, the modern liberal has always despised it and looked towards Brussels as their Capital.

Move to Belgium as it would appear you are happier, I could not stand it living in a Country I hate, it would boil my ****.

 

Its not the country that they hate Bazza, its some of the people in it. Unless you agree with their views they attack and ridicule you. You can't just have a different opinion than them , you hver a different opinion because you are a racist/loon/fantasist/ignorant/mail reader/stuck in the past. They just can not contemplate how anybody can see things differently than them. They don't want to live in Brussels or move to Belgium, they just want the plebs to go away. They claim to rejoice in the diversity of the modern UK,but their diversity and tolerance only applies if you agree with them.

[Barry Sanchez]

Its not the country that they hate Bazza, its some of the people in it. Unless you agree with their views they attack and ridicule you. You can't just have a different opinion than them , you hver a different opinion because you are a racist/loon/fantasist/ignorant/mail reader/stuck in the past. They just can not contemplate how anybody can see things differently than them. They don't want to live in Brussels or move to Belgium, they just want the plebs to go away. They claim to rejoice in the diversity of the modern UK,but their diversity and tolerance only applies if you agree with them.

 

The liberal elite live in gated communities next door to an extremely talented exile and they think its all like that in Burnley, Blackburn and Dewsbury, they conduct to the working classes, something solent never sees, he would last 5 minutes in these places of magnificent diversity.

[solentstars]

The liberal elite live in gated communities next door to an extremely talented exile and they think its all like that in Burnley, Blackburn and Dewsbury, they conduct to the working classes, something solent never sees, he would last 5 minutes in these places of magnificent diversity.

 

Still spouting your claptrack.no way are you a working class .like all you people who preach slogans from your copy of Marx or far right propganda sheet

 

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Edited 5 April, 2014 by solentstars

[solentstars]

You appear to hate and resent the Country you reside in, bitter about something, a typical liberal trait, the left and right have never hated England, the modern liberal has always despised it and looked towards Brussels as their Capital.

Move to Belgium as it would appear you are happier, I could not stand it living in a Country I hate, it would boil my ****.

You live in a strange world you need to get out playing with your ferrets and meet some real people.

 

 

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[moonraker]

You appear to hate and resent the Country you reside in, bitter about something, a typical liberal trait, the left and right have never hated England, the modern liberal has always despised it and looked towards Brussels as their Capital.

Move to Belgium as it would appear you are happier, I could not stand it living in a Country I hate, it would boil my ****.

 

Im a modern Liberal and I love my country its culture and its history so there, you really are a pratt

[Lord Duckhunter]

You live in a strange world you need to get out playing with your ferrets and meet some real people.

 

 

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He met pap

[pap]

He met pap

 

Indeed he did, and FWIW, although Bazza and I probably wouldn't be natural mates in Southampton, the boy has his Hampshire about him and seemed pretty normal to me. I didn't feel like I was talking to a nutter, put it that way. An incredibly stubborn person? Potentially different answer

 

solentstars is another boy from the Flower Roads, and I've got a lot of respect for his posts, but I'm not sure how easily anyone can assess the impact, positive and negative, that the EU has made to our lives. There's always going to be a great deal of personal perspective involved. My mate has just moved to Spain and has spent the past week reminding everyone how shít British weather is. I'm sure he loves the EU. An under 25 on the dole (or even their parents) may not be so keen.

 

Clegg never really sold a benefit of the EU, apart from the mobile roaming stuff. Even that isn't really something that can only come about from the tightening political union we find ourselves in. The Union as a whole has already shown that it's willing to suspend democracy to protect repayments to central banks. The entanglement in Ukraine has come about through EU expansion. How many people here really expected Eastern Europeans in the EU equation? How many would wager their lives for Ukraine?

 

It's a massive expansion of horizons absent any real control of our own.