Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Following the thread about the Lowe interview in 1997, I dug out my copy of the game in 96 (when Souness was boss before Lowe)... Christ we were good. And, that's with a side on paper that you would look at now and think that we were weak in some areas....Berkovic was immense, totally ran the game. Interestingly, he was one of the first to leave after Souness left (thanks Rupert)... Saints Team... Beasant Van Gobbel Lundekvam Dryden Charlton Oakley Berkovic (2) Dodd Neilson Ostenstad (3) Le Tissier (1) Just shows what can be achieved when you let a Manager manage...even with a team that looked weaker than Utd's. YES RUPERT THIS IS HOW LOW YOU HAVE DRAGGED US DOWN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 I think you'll find that that team survived relegation on the last day of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 I think you'll find that that team survived relegation on the last day of the season. Survived Relegation???? What a novel idea..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Dont want to rain on anyone's parade here as the 6-3 win over Utd ranks high in my 'Great Saints Games'. However we were playing against 10 men. That said if Utd had been down to 10 (or even 9) in last Sundays game I doubt if we would have won. Just goes to show how lowe we have fallen!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommi Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Following the thread about the Lowe interview in 1997, I dug out my copy of the game in 96 (when Souness was boss before Lowe)... Christ we were good. And, that's with a side on paper that you would look at now and think that we were weak in some areas....Berkovic was immense, totally ran the game. Interestingly, he was one of the first to leave after Souness left (thanks Rupert)... Saints Team... Beasant Van Gobbel Lundekvam Dryden Charlton Oakley Berkovic (2) Dodd Neilson Ostenstad (3) Le Tissier (1) Just shows what can be achieved when you let a Manager manage...even with a team that looked weaker than Utd's. YES RUPERT THIS IS HOW LOW YOU HAVE DRAGGED US DOWN. Sorry but chosing one game is a terrible example - we could all go back through the history books and pick one result and slant it to our justification..... ...remember the Saints 4-0 Tottenham, FA Cup Third Round ?? guess what, Rupert was around!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommi Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 P.S - forgot to add Eyal left as soon as a wedge of cash was waved his way, nothing to do with Rupert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Dont want to rain on anyone's parade here as the 6-3 win over Utd ranks high in my 'Great Saints Games'. However we were playing against 10 men. That said if Utd had been down to 10 (or even 9) in last Sundays game I doubt if we would have won. Just goes to show how lowe we have fallen!! True..but compare the remaining United 10 and compare that with our team that day.. Schmiechel, G Neville, Pallister, May, P Neville, Scholes, Beckham, Butt,Cruyff, Cantona...even though they lost Keane...still 10 better players on paper than our 11 that day. Sad state that we are now more likely to concede 6 rather than score 6.... Interesting that Askham had backed Souness by investing in Lundekvam, Van Gobbel, Berkovic and Ostenstad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Sorry but chosing one game is a terrible example - we could all go back through the history books and pick one result and slant it to our justification..... ...remember the Saints 4-0 Tottenham, FA Cup Third Round ?? guess what, Rupert was around!! Indeed, nothing like picking one result to slant it to your justification.....LOL How many times did we turn teams like Man U over once Lowe got his mitts on the train set then?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 P.S - forgot to add Eyal left as soon as a wedge of cash was waved his way, nothing to do with Rupert! Watch the video at the top of the Lowe Interview thread - it states on there that Berkovic was on his way because Souness had gone. Had Souness and Lawrie stayed, who knows. Souness left because of being offered only £2M to improve the squad over a period of years = Lowe's decision. What??? Minimal investment in the squad??? Never... So, indirectly, yes, Lowe did cause Berkovic to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpb Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Following the thread about the Lowe interview in 1997, I dug out my copy of the game in 96 (when Souness was boss before Lowe)... Christ we were good. And, that's with a side on paper that you would look at now and think that we were weak in some areas....Berkovic was immense, totally ran the game. Interestingly, he was one of the first to leave after Souness left (thanks Rupert)... YES RUPERT THIS IS HOW LOW YOU HAVE DRAGGED US DOWN. On the day, we were immense but how did we get on against Everton a few weeks later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 On the day, we were immense but how did we get on against Everton a few weeks later? Wasn't that just a typical Saints Season tho? Up and Down??? Would love some Ups right now..trouble is, regardless of Sat's result, we are sliding. One swallow doesn't make a summer...as an old-girlfriend once told me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Souness left because of being offered only £2M to improve the squad over a period of years = Lowe's decision.. Denied by Lowe in the same link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Denied by Lowe in the same link Who would you believe out of those two?? I know for a fact that Souness had already put down roots in the area, and had also bought a Care Home business in Lymington at the time. Hardly someone that's looking for the door without a genuine reason. I think I know who I'd trust and he doesn't have rosy cheeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Who would you believe out of those two?? I know for a fact that Souness had already put down roots in the area, and had also bought a Care Home business in Lymington at the time. Hardly someone that's looking for the door without a genuine reason. I think I know who I'd trust and he doesn't have rosy cheeks. didnt souness all of a sudden get a highly paid job abroad immediately after leaving us..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Indeed, nothing like picking one result to slant it to your justification.....LOL How many times did we turn teams like Man U over once Lowe got his mitts on the train set then?? 1997/98 Saints 1-0 Man United 1999/2000 Man United 3-3 Saints (I'd class that as on a par with beating them at home) 2000/01 Saints 2-1 Man United 2003/04 Saints 1-0 Man United 2000/01 Saints 3-2 Arsenal 2002/03 Saints 3-2 Arsenal 1997/98 Liverpool 2-3 Saints 1999/2000 Saints 2-1 Liverpool 2001/02 Saints 2-0 Liverpool 2003/04 Liverpool 1-2 Saints 2003/04 Saints 2-0 Liverpool 2004/05 Saints 2-0 Liverpool 1997/98 Saints 1-0 Chelsea 2000/01 Saints 3-2 Chelsea 2001/02 Chelsea 2-4 Saints How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 didnt souness all of a sudden get a highly paid job abroad immediately after leaving us..? Torino, if memory serves me correctly, where he lasted about 4 months before being sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Interesting that Askham had backed Souness by investing in Lundekvam, Van Gobbel, Berkovic and Ostenstad.... combined transfer fees totaling???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Who would you believe out of those two?? I know for a fact that Souness had already put down roots in the area' date=' and had also bought a Care Home business in Lymington at the time..[/quote'] Was that from the proceeds of the shares sold that were gifted to him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommi Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Indeed, nothing like picking one result to slant it to your justification.....LOL How many times did we turn teams like Man U over once Lowe got his mitts on the train set then?? I was just making a point. I think Mr Grant has answered that one for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Wasn't that just a typical Saints Season tho? Up and Down??? Would love some Ups right now..trouble is, regardless of Sat's result, we are sliding. One swallow doesn't make a summer...as an old-girlfriend once told me.. The games at Preston and Reading were good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Indeed, nothing like picking one result to slant it to your justification.....LOL How many times did we turn teams like Man U over once Lowe got his mitts on the train set then?? What a load of sh it e. In the four of the five seasons before Lowe turned up we survived relegation in the last week of the season. We were sh it e and could easily and justifiably gone down in any one of those seasons. We stayed up in those years because of one bloody player. The only season in those five years we were any good was under Bally, who then quit because of lack of support to be replaced by an underqualified coach who then did shi te the following season. In the years before 1997 we also sold any player of any value to the first club that asked - Wallace, Shearer, Hall, Horne, Ruddock, Flowers. And so on. And don't mention Le Tiss - our board accepted offers from Man U, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea at various points. So don't make out we were some wonder team who were destroyed by Lowe. We were rubbish in the years immediately preceeding his arrival. The five years following 1997 were infinitely better, so put that in your pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Actually we then discovered that Souness had only signed Berkovic on a one year's loan even though that hadn't been made clear to supporters at the time he signed. (We were kept in the dark by the old regime too!) He didn't want to stay, and we had no contractual right to make him. K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 combined transfer fees totaling???? According to Lowe in the 1997 interview...£6.2M...more like £4M. Lowe forgot in his interview that we got over £3m in return for the sales of Richard Hall, Shipperley and Widdrington. So it wasn't as if the money was travelling one way was it? Also on the interview Lowe claimed that 'we' had given Graeme 'x' amount of funds....hmm surely that was the old Askham regime and not the Secure Retirement version?? My memory was that Souness wanted in the region of £7M to 'take us to the next level and keep progressing'...Lowe apparently offered £2M. Souness apparently told Lowe that he couldn't guarantee that we would even stay in the Premier League with that level of investment. Seems that Rupey started as he meant to go on. Wake up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Watch the video at the top of the Lowe Interview thread - it states on there that Berkovic was on his way because Souness had gone. Had Souness and Lawrie stayed, who knows. Souness left because of being offered only £2M to improve the squad over a period of years = Lowe's decision. What??? Minimal investment in the squad??? Never... So, indirectly, yes, Lowe did cause Berkovic to leave. What a total muppet. Why do you think Berkovic left? because we had no option to buy him at the end of his trial period. Great having a trial period, but what is the use of it if he can walk after being a total success? As for the 6-3 win against ManU, you seem to have completely forgotten the 7-1 loss to Everton, but I expect that one was solely down to Lowe. That same season we escaped relegation on the last day, not because of anything we had done as I think we lost that day, but others failure to win. Also in that year the youth policy was completely raised to the ground and had to be built up again. If any idiot had to go and select facts to prove a point, you could not have chosen a worse example and just makes the whole thing more laughable than serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Was that from the proceeds of the shares sold that were gifted to him ? Hmmm..interested. Tell me more.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 What a load of sh it e. In the four of the five seasons before Lowe turned up we survived relegation in the last week of the season. We were sh it e and could easily and justifiably gone down in any one of those seasons. We stayed up in those years because of one bloody player. The only season in those five years we were any good was under Bally, who then quit because of lack of support to be replaced by an underqualified coach who then did shi te the following season. In the years before 1997 we also sold any player of any value to the first club that asked - Wallace, Shearer, Hall, Horne, Ruddock, Flowers. And so on. And don't mention Le Tiss - our board accepted offers from Man U, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea at various points. So don't make out we were some wonder team who were destroyed by Lowe. We were rubbish in the years immediately preceeding his arrival. The five years following 1997 were infinitely better, so put that in your pipe. So name me one player that we DIDN'T sell after 1997 to the first club that asked... Talking of underqualified coaches...you are comparing Merrington with Wigley and Stuart Gray then? No, thought not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Hmmm..interested. Tell me more.. I am sure others on here are more informed on this matter than I, however, I believe when floated, as our manager at the time, along with others was gifted a volume of shares which he promptly sold at the first available moment, making a fair wedge out of his time with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Actually we then discovered that Souness had only signed Berkovic on a one year's loan even though that hadn't been made clear to supporters at the time he signed. (We were kept in the dark by the old regime too!) He didn't want to stay, and we had no contractual right to make him. K. But he didn't want to stay because Souness had left...which in turn started the chain reaction of the next 10 years..... 1. Appoint a new Manager having paid off the old coaching staff; 2. Dismantle previous manager's squad; 3. Allow new manager to build new squad; 4. As Squad takes time to gel, league position falters; 5. Manager leaves by mutual consent; 6. Appoint a new Manager having paid off the old coaching staff..... Repeat as necessary to build up debts, confirm relegation and alienate the fans... See....who's fault is it that we're in the CCC now....struggling to stay in it??? Of course...it's people like me who have supported this club for 29 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 This is why I choose to stand up for Rupert. Not because I like him, I often don't. Not because I think he's always done a good job, he's made some terrible decisions. Not because he's a good guy, he doesn't help himself one bit with some of his comments. BUT because of the utter garbage that gets written on here and said by many fans. Bitterness, over the top hatred and rewriting history, combined with inconsistent, illogical argument and blatant lies half the time. We now have someone making out we were amazing before Rupert came and he's dragged us down?! Christ, if people could look objectively for just a second they'd realise how ridiculous that was. We had Askham in charge, a man who did no good for the club at all and never would have delivered a stadium. If he'd got his way I'd imagine we'd have lost Le Tissier too. What kind of ignorance claims they know we'd have done better if that situation had continued? How can they prove we wouldn't have been down far sooner and sunk even lower? Nostalgic memories of the Dell are fine, I miss it, but let's face it, it was a dump and we needed to move on. There's so many short memories around here, it's as if we never had any good times in the premiership under Lowe. In my memory, the relegation battles actually became less frequent didn't they? Jones came in and did well for a while, signed some excellent players. We had Davies, Le Tissier, Pahars, Beattie, Hirst all doing well at times. Then Hoddle and more decent football, sadly not carried on by Gray, although it was under him we had the perfect end to life at the Dell. The Strachan and no real relegation fights, just improvement, a hard working team and more success than ever before. Then due to changes, poor signings and many injuries downhill ever since. From 2004. That's 4 or 5 years, of which 18 months or more Rupert wasn't even here. So please, at least criticise him for things that make sense. I don't believe for a second (nor want to do believe so myself) that Rupert was solely responsible for the 2003 season, so why on earth should it follow that he's solely responsible for all the negatives? It simply doesn't make sense. Hmmm...something about a David Frost consortium interested at the time makes me think that Rupert wasn't the only person that was interested in developing the club. Hindsight's a fine thing..but yes Rupert delivered the stadium, with a £20M + DEBT THAT IS DAMN NEAR CRIPPLING US.. HE GAMBLED THEN AS WILDE DID, DON'T PRETEND ANYTHING OTHERWISE. Lowe's strategy was fine as long as we stayed in the Prem. We got relegated and it fell apart. And David Hirst??????????????? Christ how many minutes did he last?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 What a load of sh it e. In the four of the five seasons before Lowe turned up we survived relegation in the last week of the season. We were sh it e and could easily and justifiably gone down in any one of those seasons. We stayed up in those years because of one bloody player. The only season in those five years we were any good was under Bally, who then quit because of lack of support to be replaced by an underqualified coach who then did shi te the following season. In the years before 1997 we also sold any player of any value to the first club that asked - Wallace, Shearer, Hall, Horne, Ruddock, Flowers. And so on. And don't mention Le Tiss - our board accepted offers from Man U, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea at various points. So don't make out we were some wonder team who were destroyed by Lowe. We were rubbish in the years immediately preceeding his arrival. The five years following 1997 were infinitely better, so put that in your pipe. A very fair and accurate assessment of the situation which will no doubt be totally and utterly ignored by the rabid anti-Lowe keyboard thumpers. In the early 90s no reasonable Saints fan could argue against the fact that the only way we didn't get relegated was MLT. Bar him we we utter sh ite with players such as Dixon, Speedie, Dryden, etc. We also played at a ground too small to support top flight football and had an academy that last unearthed a gem in Danny Wallace.... After Lowe took over, even with MLT's playing abilities in decline we actually improved as a tam and went for perennial relegation fodder to a team competing in the top half of the table under Hoddle and WGS (and were in a CL qualifying position at Xmas not too long ago...) and oh yeah, we also reached a cup final. However all of these facts seem to have been erased from the memories of the key board thumpers! It's absurd that some on here seem set on perpertrating the myth that we were a top 6 team when Lowe took over and that by his penny pinching, profit removal and concentrating on money before football we fell from this position to where we are now..... Nice story but it's about as true as the Three Bears.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 A very fair and accurate assessment of the situation which will no doubt be totally and utterly ignored by the rabid anti-Lowe keyboard thumpers. In the early 90s no reasonable Saints fan could argue against the fact that the only way we didn't get relegated was MLT. Bar him we we utter sh ite with players such as Dixon, Speedie, Dryden, etc. We also played at a ground too small to support top flight football and had an academy that last unearthed a gem in Danny Wallace.... After Lowe took over, even with MLT's playing abilities in decline we actually improved as a tam and went for perennial relegation fodder to a team competing in the top half of the table under Hoddle and WGS (and were in a CL qualifying position at Xmas not too long ago...) and oh yeah, we also reached a cup final. However all of these facts seem to have been erased from the memories of the key board thumpers! It's absurd that some on here seem set on perpertrating the myth that we were a top 6 team when Lowe took over and that by his penny pinching, profit removal and concentrating on money before football we fell from this position to where we are now..... Nice story but it's about as true as the Three Bears.... Hmmm...nice mention of Danny Wallace but aren't you forgetting these that came through the Youth System before Lowe's arrival... Benali, Shearer, Kenna, Both other Wallaces, Oakley.... BTW, I never said that we were top 6 before Lowe arrived - if you re-read the original post instead of jumping on the 'Let's protect Rupey at all Costs Bandwagon' you would actually see that my point was how we had fallen....from beating Man U convincingly to...13 years later....chasing shadows on a pitch. Cyber Bullies eh? Don't you just love em? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 This is why I choose to stand up for Rupert. Not because I like him, I often don't. Not because I think he's always done a good job, he's made some terrible decisions. Not because he's a good guy, he doesn't help himself one bit with some of his comments. BUT because of the utter garbage that gets written on here and said by many fans. Bitterness, over the top hatred and rewriting history, combined with inconsistent, illogical argument and blatant lies half the time. We now have someone making out we were amazing before Rupert came and he's dragged us down?! Christ, if people could look objectively for just a second they'd realise how ridiculous that was. We had Askham in charge, a man who did no good for the club at all and never would have delivered a stadium. If he'd got his way I'd imagine we'd have lost Le Tissier too. What kind of ignorance claims they know we'd have done better if that situation had continued? How can they prove we wouldn't have been down far sooner and sunk even lower? Nostalgic memories of the Dell are fine, I miss it, but let's face it, it was a dump and we needed to move on. There's so many short memories around here, it's as if we never had any good times in the premiership under Lowe. In my memory, the relegation battles actually became less frequent didn't they? Jones came in and did well for a while, signed some excellent players. We had Davies, Le Tissier, Pahars, Beattie, Hirst all doing well at times. Then Hoddle and more decent football, sadly not carried on by Gray, although it was under him we had the perfect end to life at the Dell. The Strachan and no real relegation fights, just improvement, a hard working team and more success than ever before. Then due to changes, poor signings and many injuries downhill ever since. From 2004. That's 4 or 5 years, of which 18 months or more Rupert wasn't even here. So please, at least criticise him for things that make sense. I don't believe for a second (nor want to do believe so myself) that Rupert was solely responsible for the 2003 season, so why on earth should it follow that he's solely responsible for all the negatives? It simply doesn't make sense. Trouble is Adrian, both sides are at it, there has been more re-writing of history on this website since the summer than a David Irving book. Wilde started this polarisation of the fans by using S4E as a propaganda tool - that "COYR and we got our club back" stuff makes me feel sick now. Just as unforgiveably, Rupert Lowe then wasted club money on putting some incredibly PR plants on S4E and I stand by my assertion that more have returned to this site recently. Some of the stuff on the OS this season has been very blameworthy and not neccessarily accurate some of the time either. Trouble is, if Leon Crouch returned tommorrow we'd have Lowe's army sniping and Lowe's pet pressman Charles Sale at it. The only way is a totally new broom, Lowe has about 5-10% support judging by what I see and hear at SMS and that's why some of the criticism is getting a bit unfair. He does invite it though by the way he carries on. That AGM was the final straw all-round with regard to the major shareholders for a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 What a load of sh it e. In the four of the five seasons before Lowe turned up we survived relegation in the last week of the season. We were sh it e and could easily and justifiably gone down in any one of those seasons. We stayed up in those years because of one bloody player. The only season in those five years we were any good was under Bally, who then quit because of lack of support to be replaced by an underqualified coach who then did shi te the following season. In the years before 1997 we also sold any player of any value to the first club that asked - Wallace, Shearer, Hall, Horne, Ruddock, Flowers. And so on. And don't mention Le Tiss - our board accepted offers from Man U, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea at various points. So don't make out we were some wonder team who were destroyed by Lowe. We were rubbish in the years immediately preceeding his arrival. The five years following 1997 were infinitely better, so put that in your pipe. I totally agree with this post and Askham was so appalling as Chairman that Secure Retirement had to clear a significant overdraft. However, I know that you are no fan of Rupert either CB but whatever anyone posts at the moment, it just seems to be labelled as pro-or-anti Lowe straight away. OB is as bad as some of the antis actually, many of the silent majority who are not RL backers are not keyboard-thumpers or have ever had an issue with background, education etc. The re-writing of history needs to cease from BOTH SIDES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 12 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 12 January, 2009 I totally agree with this post and Askham was so appalling as Chairman that Secure Retirement had to clear a significant overdraft. However, I know that you are no fan of Rupert either CB but whatever anyone posts at the moment, it just seems to be labelled as pro-or-anti Lowe straight away. OB is as bad as some of the antis actually, many of the silent majority who are not RL backers are not keyboard-thumpers or have ever had an issue with background, education etc. The re-writing of history needs to cease from BOTH SIDES! Echo that. As I posted above, I was not trying to create a 'Top 6' finishing side by the content of the original post, as some have claimed. I know we have been on the whole 'sh1te' for about 18 years. FFS!! What is clear over the last six months is that we have gone from a club which was 85-90% united (on the pitch after Sheff U) to a clear (at least) 50-50 split pro and against Lowe. Which, regardless of whoever you think is good or right for the club, is not healthy for the future of SFC. That split has been down to the presence of one individual - regardless of my views on him or anybody else's - Lowe is continuing to cause upset and disturbance to the fanbase. If Wilde had a backbone he's have a word in his shell-like and ask him to take a back seat for now. The fact that no-one (Cowen included) seems to have the kahunas to stand up to him speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Echo that. As I posted above, I was not trying to create a 'Top 6' finishing side by the content of the original post, as some have claimed. I know we have been on the whole 'sh1te' for about 18 years. FFS!! What is clear over the last six months is that we have gone from a club which was 85-90% united (on the pitch after Sheff U) to a clear (at least) 50-50 split pro and against Lowe. Which, regardless of whoever you think is good or right for the club, is not healthy for the future of SFC. That split has been down to the presence of one individual - regardless of my views on him or anybody else's - Lowe is continuing to cause upset and disturbance to the fanbase. If Wilde had a backbone he's have a word in his shell-like and ask him to take a back seat for now. The fact that no-one (Cowen included) seems to have the kahunas to stand up to him speaks volumes. Cowen has by all accounts had enough - I don't blame him - and Wilde is just crossing his fingers and hoping it somehow comes off OK. Rupert is highly unpopular and hasn't handled his return well - sometimes confrontation isn't the right way all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Cowen has by all accounts had enough - I don't blame him - and Wilde is just crossing his fingers and hoping it somehow comes off OK. Rupert is highly unpopular and hasn't handled his return well - sometimes confrontation isn't the right way all of the time. To be honest I think, bar the AGM (at which neither side covered themselves in glory), that RL has made the best of a bad job on his return. He was never going to be popular, and nothing was going to change the 'lunatic fringe' into card carrying 'lowe luvvies'. That said he's taken, in press terms a pretty anonymous back seat and that has reduced the amount of sticks he can be beaten with. If the accounts are to be believed, cuts needed to be made and RL has made them. If he cut too much, time will tell and we'll be relegated. If he has cut just enough and JP stays up then it will be job done. It's a ****ty job but someone had to do it, and whoever did it will be vilified for it. To be honest I think Wilde and even Crouch / Fulthorpe et. al are happily sitting back letting RL take the flak (afterall if you are already considered as Satan, how much worse can it get). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 To be honest I think, bar the AGM (at which neither side covered themselves in glory), that RL has made the best of a bad job on his return. He was never going to be popular, and nothing was going to change the 'lunatic fringe' into card carrying 'lowe luvvies'. That said he's taken, in press terms a pretty anonymous back seat and that has reduced the amount of sticks he can be beaten with. If the accounts are to be believed, cuts needed to be made and RL has made them. If he cut too much, time will tell and we'll be relegated. If he has cut just enough and JP stays up then it will be job done. It's a ****ty job but someone had to do it, and whoever did it will be vilified for it. To be honest I think Wilde and even Crouch / Fulthorpe et. al are happily sitting back letting RL take the flak (afterall if you are already considered as Satan, how much worse can it get). That is certainly true of Wilde which is why although Rupert isn't my pick for CEO, I still respect him more than Wilde. Having said that, Crouch had already said cuts had to be made - not that I'm a fan or his either. I think the JP gamble was uneccessary with the fragile state we are in and next weekend could be the last chance to really kick on and gain momentum to get out of trouble. Some of the PR on the OS has been unneccessary and inflammatory for the sake of it, not to mention inaccurate. As for the "total football" articles, I won't even go there, the stupidity speaks for itself... Rupert has got a very difficult job but he is also one of the contributors of the mess as well. I have always wished him well and continue to do so. Don't be fooled into thinking that Lowe opposition is a lunatic fringe though, support was about 50/50 on his return at best and a lot of that was provisional which was swept away with the JP gamble. Lowe's supporters are very much in a very small minority. My views are not set in stone, if Rupert keeps the squad together in the window and JP keeps us up, he's had a good season. If he fails on both counts, that's 2 relegations and he really does have to go. Right now, if we can take a pragmatic approach and bring in more Saejis-type signings, we might just do it. I backed Rupert 1997-2003 because he was doing a fine job. 2004-6 his record was dreadful and the jury is very much out on this season. As a fan, I reserve the right to call things as I see them and not be labelled Lunatic Fringe, Lowe Luvvie or Keyboard Thumper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Bones Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Sorry - I've skippped straight to the end.... haven't read past the first post. As much as that game was one of the greater in Saints history, Souness was one, if not THE greatest underachiever at Southampton ever. Funny how we can bring football results into a debate about the chairman. Wasn't Lowe the last to bring us Europe ? PS. Sorry if i've rambled or repeated - But I personally think this thread is poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 So name me one player that we DIDN'T sell after 1997 to the first club that asked... Talking of underqualified coaches...you are comparing Merrington with Wigley and Stuart Gray then? No, thought not. Hang on, you're the one making out how fantastic everything was before 1997...... And anyway, I can answer your question - we turned down a £5m plus bid from Strachan's Coventry city for Pahars who wanted him to replace Robbie Keane. And yes I compare Merrington to Gray and Wigley - all three were excellent servants to the club and all three did fantastic work with our youngsters and/or the first team as superb coaches/assistants. All three should never have been appointed as manager as cheap option. Anyway, I don't need to add any more to this thread - you've made yourself look a complete tool enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Bones Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Hmm.. Wasn't Eyal part of an 11th hour deal after already agreeing to a contract ? - Or have I had too many tongiht ? ... Wiki Move To England For the 1996-97 season, Berkovic signed on a season-long loan for English club Southampton. He proved to be a big influence, and was a major part of the famous 6-3 victory over Manchester United, as he scored twice and got three assists. The next season he was signed by West Ham United for £1.75 million, for whom he played for two seasons, appearing in 64 games. Striker John Hartson had a prolific season that term for West Ham helped by Berkovic's assists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Isn't there enough current cr*p to blame Lowe for without going back 12 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Sad state that we are now more likely to concede 6 rather than score 6.... even back then (perhaps especially back then) we were more likely to conceed 6 than score 6. I recall a 7 goal thumping at the Valley on the first day of the season, one in which we took about 8 games to get off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Sad state that we are now more likely to concede 6 rather than score 6.... even back then (perhaps especially back then) we were more likely to conceed 6 than score 6. I recall a 7 goal thumping at the Valley on the first day of the season, one in which we took about 8 games to get off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 I think you'll find that that team survived relegation on the last day of the season. LOL!!!! Isn't that the point Bungle you big irritating bear. :smt044 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 I think you'll find that that team survived relegation on the last day of the season. LOL!!!! Isn't that the point Bungle you big irritating bear. :smt044 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 even back then (perhaps especially back then) we were more likely to conceed 6 than score 6. I recall a 7 goal thumping at the Valley on the first day of the season, one in which we took about 8 games to get off the mark. That was 98-99. 5-0 at the Valley and then a home defeat by Forest. Had lost to Liverpool on the opening day with Beresford finishing his career with a knee injury to be replaced by an unknown 18 year old called Wayne Bridge... We had a problem defending high balls in the opening few games so shows you little changes! Scott Marshall at CB didn't help with his own goals. Jones had a tremendous first season but he bought some crud in the summer of 98 - Marshall, Ripley etc. We had an incredible home run in 1999 and got what I think was our first away win at Selhurst - what a day out that was. Ignore the official figures, we had 15k that day and the volume when Beatts scored was awesome. That was by far Jones best signing in 1998 - Beattie for £1m. That's what we need in 2009 - home form like that. We cannot rely on away wins, welcome as they are and cannot afford any more home defeats. Never mind the tippy tappy stuff, get 2-3 experienced heads in to help the more able young players out and get stuck into the opposition. Results first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 even back then (perhaps especially back then) we were more likely to conceed 6 than score 6. I recall a 7 goal thumping at the Valley on the first day of the season, one in which we took about 8 games to get off the mark. That was 98-99. 5-0 at the Valley and then a home defeat by Forest. Had lost to Liverpool on the opening day with Beresford finishing his career with a knee injury to be replaced by an unknown 18 year old called Wayne Bridge... We had a problem defending high balls in the opening few games so shows you little changes! Scott Marshall at CB didn't help with his own goals. Jones had a tremendous first season but he bought some crud in the summer of 98 - Marshall, Ripley etc. We had an incredible home run in 1999 and got what I think was our first away win at Selhurst - what a day out that was. Ignore the official figures, we had 15k that day and the volume when Beatts scored was awesome. That was by far Jones best signing in 1998 - Beattie for £1m. That's what we need in 2009 - home form like that. We cannot rely on away wins, welcome as they are and cannot afford any more home defeats. Never mind the tippy tappy stuff, get 2-3 experienced heads in to help the more able young players out and get stuck into the opposition. Results first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 To be honest I think, bar the AGM (at which neither side covered themselves in glory), that RL has made the best of a bad job on his return. He was never going to be popular, and nothing was going to change the 'lunatic fringe' into card carrying 'lowe luvvies'. That said he's taken, in press terms a pretty anonymous back seat and that has reduced the amount of sticks he can be beaten with. If the accounts are to be believed, cuts needed to be made and RL has made them. If he cut too much, time will tell and we'll be relegated. If he has cut just enough and JP stays up then it will be job done. It's a ****ty job but someone had to do it, and whoever did it will be vilified for it. To be honest I think Wilde and even Crouch / Fulthorpe et. al are happily sitting back letting RL take the flak (afterall if you are already considered as Satan, how much worse can it get). You mean like sacking NP (1.23 points per game and steadily improving, with overwhelming fan support, despite inheriting a demoralised squad) for purely egoistic reasons, and replacing him with a Dutch amateur (0.96 points per game) with no experience in English football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 1997/98 Saints 1-0 Man United 1999/2000 Man United 3-3 Saints (I'd class that as on a par with beating them at home) 2000/01 Saints 2-1 Man United 2003/04 Saints 1-0 Man United 2000/01 Saints 3-2 Arsenal 2002/03 Saints 3-2 Arsenal 1997/98 Liverpool 2-3 Saints 1999/2000 Saints 2-1 Liverpool 2001/02 Saints 2-0 Liverpool 2003/04 Liverpool 1-2 Saints 2003/04 Saints 2-0 Liverpool 2004/05 Saints 2-0 Liverpool 1997/98 Saints 1-0 Chelsea 2000/01 Saints 3-2 Chelsea 2001/02 Chelsea 2-4 Saints How's that? Was that the one with Beattie's rasper from about 75 yards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 12 January, 2009 Share Posted 12 January, 2009 Echo that. As I posted above, I was not trying to create a 'Top 6' finishing side by the content of the original post, as some have claimed. I know we have been on the whole 'sh1te' for about 18 years. FFS!! What is clear over the last six months is that we have gone from a club which was 85-90% united (on the pitch after Sheff U) to a clear (at least) 50-50 split pro and against Lowe. Which, regardless of whoever you think is good or right for the club, is not healthy for the future of SFC. That split has been down to the presence of one individual - regardless of my views on him or anybody else's - Lowe is continuing to cause upset and disturbance to the fanbase. If Wilde had a backbone he's have a word in his shell-like and ask him to take a back seat for now. The fact that no-one (Cowen included) seems to have the kahunas to stand up to him speaks volumes. Didn't look that way to me Sunday before last, and this Saturday I personally won't give him a second thought if we win 3-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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