" A club in freefall"

[Long Shot]

says today's Independent referring to Southampton FC, and with the inevitable sale - it seems - of Davies and perhaps Surman (Readings DoF was in the director's box on Saturday) the above description is becoming uncomfortably close to being right.

 

While there is sometimes no point in playing the blame game because what's happened can't be altered I feel, in the light of Askham's presence in the Director's box on Saturday, that we should be bringing those most responsible for our demise to trial.

 

Having just read "The Nuremberg War trials" by Airey Neave while on holiday (yes I know not very light reading but I had read all mine and this was in the villa bookcase) I would like to lay charges as follows to the following "war" criminals in order of culpability.

 

Guy Askham - you are charged with starting the whole shooting match in the first place by putting in place a highly suspicious reverse takeover that turned SFC into a PLC and lined your own and others pockets while some long-standing servants were conned out of their shares. You then sat back and watched as your partner in crime, Rupert Lowe, despite showing early promise, turned this club from being one of the most respected clubs in the country into a laughing stock. You alone could have spoken up in our hour of need but you chose to melt into the shadows while Rome burned and now you have the cheek to once again sit at the feet of the emperor's throne. Shame on you.

 

Rupert Lowe - you are charged as being an accomplice of the reverse takeover and subsequent dereliction of duty as you oversaw the clubs established Premiership pedigree evaporate amid a plethora of unwise managerial appointments. Your failure to see the warning signals in our relegation year and your subsequent mis management of the first year of the parachute payments has cost this club dear and set us on the spiralling downward path we now tread. You are also charged with being pompous, arrogant and gaffe prone PR wise.

 

Michael Wilde - you are charged with a gross case of misleading the fanbase with promises and manifestos you could never keep. You are also charged with imcompetent mismanagement of the highest degree with your appointment of a discredited executive team. In the middle of the storm you then abandoned the ship which means a dereliction of duty charge only apt. Your involvement short has been, in short, disastrous.

 

Hone/Dulieu - charged with mass incompetence and lack of PR skills. Also charged with bullying and harrassment of employees and fans.

 

Leon Crouch - you are charged with 1st degree niaivity which nearly had grave consequences. Despite the good ship Southampton heading for the rocks you continually pointed the telescope to the open sea and refused to address the impending wreck until it was almost too late. Your patronisation of the fanbase was also inexcusable and it is considered you are unfit to serve on a football board ever again.

 

Keith Wiseman - you are charged as beeing weak willed and knock kneed. You have also wined and dined on Southampton FC far too long without contributing anything worth mentioning. In short you are a complete waste of space.

 

Lawrie MacMenemy - despite your known distaste for Mr Lowe and Mr Askham you were still prepared to line you pockets at the reverse takeover and then watch silently from the wings until your turn came again to feed at the trough. You have served this club well in the past but your time is up.

 

George Burley - you are charged with losing interest and being a manager that led the unfittest side in Saints history. You signed a lot of highly paid underperforming footballers over the last 18 months and when the slide came you couldn't be bothered to address the situation. You were content to sit back and tread water until the right offer came in and you left behing the most demotivated squad since Ian Branfoot. A 1st degree negligence charge is laid at your door.

 

Steve Wigley - charged with mass ineptitude of the highest degree. You let yourself be talked into a position you didn't want and you showed weak character in not standing up to the "playground bully".

 

The Saints Trust - despite a much vaunted launch amid promises and big talk you failed to have any effect at a time when the fans were crying out for a united voice. In fact you took on the appearance of a rabbit caught in headlights and today most don't even believe you exist such is your timidity. You wasted a golden opportunity to stand up and be counted and you are charged with cowardice under fire.

 

Gordon Strachan - another who left a sinking ship. You are also charged with being economical with the truth over your reasons for leaving.

 

Jason Dodd/John Gorman - you are charged with being absolutely useless and overseeing the worst ever performance by a Saints side in modern times.

 

Harry Redknapp - you are charged with treason, no more no less.

 

Sir Clive Woodwood - you are charged with carrying out dangerous experiments with guinea pigs not up to the task. You are also charged with bringing the biggest clown in football to Staplewood, Simon Clifford. His arrival was another nail in our coffin as it alienated the back room staff.

 

All in all this is a very sorry state of affairs and the prosecution calls for a 100% blanket ban on all the above ever entering SMS again.

Edited 18 August, 2008 by Long Shot

[paris]

Are you Alpine in disguise..

[SaintRichmond]

says today's Independent referring to Southampton FC, and with the inevitable sale - it seems - of Davies and perhaps Surman (Readings DoF was in the director's box on Saturday) the above description is becoming uncomfortably close to being right.

 

While there is sometimes no point in playing the blame game because what's happened can't be altered I feel, in the light of Askham's presence in the Director's box on Saturday, that we should be bringing those most responsible for our demise to trial.

 

Having just read "The Nuremberg War trials" by Airey Neave while on holiday (yes I know not very light reading but I had read all mine and this was in the villa bookcase) I would like to lay charges as follows to the following "war" criminals in order of culpability.

 

Guy Askham - you are charged with starting the whole shooting match in the first place by putting in place a highly suspicious reverse takeover that turned SFC into a PLC and lined your own and others pockets while some long-standing servants were conned out of their shares. You then sat back and watched as your partner in crime, Rupert Lowe, despite showing early promise, turned this club from being one of the most respected clubs in the country into a laughing stock. You alone could have spoken up in our hour of need but you chose to melt into the shadows while Rome burned and now you have the cheek to once again sit at the feet of the emperor's throne. Shame on you.

 

Rupert Lowe - you are charged as being an accomplice of the reverse takeover and subsequent dereliction of duty as you oversaw the clubs established Premiership pedigree evaporate amid a plethora of unwise managerial appointments. Your failure to see the warning signals in our relegation year and your subsequent mis management of the first year of the parachute payments has cost this club dear and set us on the spiralling downword path we now tread. You are also charged with being pompous, arrogant and gaffe prone PR wise.

 

Michael Wilde - you are charged with a gross case of misleading the fanbase with promises and manifestos you could never keep. You are also charged with imcompetent mismanagement of the highest degree with your appointment of an inept executive team. In the middle of the storm you then abandoned the ship which means a dereliction of duty charge only apt. Your involvement short has been, in short, disastrous.

 

Hone/Dulieu - charged with mass incompetence and lack of PR skills. Also charged with bullying and harrassment of employees and fans.

 

Leon Crouch - you are charged with 1st degree niaivity which nearly had grave consequences. Despite the good ship Southampton heading for the rocks you continually pointed the telescope to the open sea and refused to address the impending wreck until it was almost too late. Your patronisation of the fanbase was also inexcusable and it is considered you are unfit to serve on a football board ever again.

 

Keith Wiseman - you are charged as beeing weak willed and knock kneed. You have also wined and dined on Southampton FC far too long without contributing anything worth mentioning. In short you are a complete waste of space.

 

Lawrie MacMenemy - despite your known distaste for Mr Lowe and Mr Askham you were still prepared to line you pockets at the reverse takeover and then watch silently from the wings until your turn came again to feed at the trough. You have served this club well in the past but your time is up.

 

George Burley - you are charged with losing interest and being a manager that led the unfittest side in Saints history. You signed a lot of highly paid underperforming footballers over the last 18 months and when the slide came you couldn't be bothered to address the situation. You were content to sit back and tread water until the right offer came in and you left behing the most demotivated squad since Ian Branfoot. A 1st degree negligence charge is laid at your door.

 

Steve Wigley - charged with mass ineptitude of the highest degree. You let yourself be talked into a position you didn't want and you showed weak character in not standing up to the "playground bully".

 

The Saints Trust - despite a much vaunted launch amid promises and big talk you failed to have any effect at a time when the fans were crying out for a united voice. In fact you took on the appearance of a rabbit caught in headlights and today most don't even believe you exist such is your timidity. You wasted a golden opportunity to stand up and be counted and you are charged with cowardice under fire.

 

Gordon Strachan - another who left a sinking ship. You are also charged with being economical with the truth over your reasons for leaving.

 

Jason Dodd/John Gorman - you are charged with being absolutely useless and overseeing the worst ever performance by a Saints side in modern times.

 

Harry Redknapp - you are charged with treason, no more no less.

 

Sir Clive Woodwood - you are charged with carrying out dangerous experiments with guinea pigs not up to the task. You are also charged with bringing the biggest clown in football to Staplewood, Simon Clifford. His arrival was another nail in our coffin as it alienated the back room staff.

 

All in all this is a very sorry state of affairs and the prosecution calls for a 100% blanket ban on all the above ever entering SMS again.

 

 

Completely agree, though all the Lowe Luvvies will no doubt respond.

 

Tragedy is, in one years time, when Division One looms, and we are still MASSIVELY in debt but with NO MORE PLAYERS TO SELL .......... what happens then Mr Lowe ? Mr Wilde

 

FIREFIGHTING IS FOR EXPERTS, not for the likes of the Gruesome Twosome

[Mr X]

One things for sure were not going to have much to look forward to this season.

[John B]

It is all MLT's fault

 

If he had not been so good and kept us in the Premiership for so long we would have been relegated years ago and would not be in this position today.

 

 

I doubt if we every had the financial muscle to really perform at Premiership Level but it was good for a few seasons

[Pancake]

TBH, if youve got the time and impetus to sit down and draw up that comparision with the Nuremberg War Trails, then I can only suggest that you are not of a sound mind.

[Guest Hacienda]

I had hoped at the end of last season that we had hit rock bottom and the only way was up.

 

Now I'm not so sure.

[alpine_saint]

Agree with all you write, but it doesnt help us.

 

Let's just focus on getting Lowe and Wilde out, and trying to keep some players.

[ladysaint]

Its all very very sad, Monday mornings are depressing enough without even thinking about our situation. If investment doesnt happen before the end of the month it looks like we are doomed. All we can do is get behind the lads and try to build their confidence up. Dont lets give up yet.

[Channon's Sideburns]

What baffles me is that any SANE Saints Fan can read that and not agree.

 

Lowe is not to blame for our demise - it is a combination of ineptitude from many, many people.

 

However, my main concern is the here and now.

 

Selling Davies and Surman will be the biggest disaster since relegation - not because of who these players are and their performances, but the message that this sends out to the masses - the other players who do give their all, and the fans.

 

My problem with this situation is this - firstly, goes against all of the arguments placed by Lowe and Wilde upon their return - yes the younger players are our future, but what is the bloody point if it is these players you get rid of first?

 

If no-one will buy Skacel - release the waste of space and get his wages off the payroll - or offer Ipswich £4k per week to take him off our hands.

 

If we're not going to play him what's the point?

 

Secondly, if Lowe does sell Surman to Reading - why can't we have Alan Bennett as part of the deal?

 

This would cover the loss of Davies which I find ridiculous - on many fronts, not only the fact that he wants to go to Stoke.

 

FFS, he'll be back in the CCC next season anyway!! It seems there is, again, much more to this story than 'player wanting to go to Premier League'.

 

Here's a suggestion - if Lowe is really concerned about the costs, why doesn't he set the lead by taking and forcing his executive colleagues to take a 50% pay cut....???????

 

CHALLENGE LOWE AND WILDE >>>>> OVER TO YOU

[benjii]

What baffles me is that any SANE Saints Fan can read that and not agree.

 

Lowe is not to blame for our demise - it is a combination of ineptitude from many, many people.

 

However, my main concern is the here and now.

 

Selling Davies and Surman will be the biggest disaster since relegation - not because of who these players are and their performances, but the message that this sends out to the masses - the other players who do give their all, and the fans.

 

My problem with this situation is this - firstly, goes against all of the arguments placed by Lowe and Wilde upon their return - yes the younger players are our future, but what is the bloody point if it is these players you get rid of first?

 

If no-one will buy Skacel - release the waste of space and get his wages off the payroll - or offer Ipswich £4k per week to take him off our hands.

 

If we're not going to play him what's the point?

 

Secondly, if Lowe does sell Surman to Reading - why can't we have Alan Bennett as part of the deal?

 

This would cover the loss of Davies which I find ridiculous - on many fronts, not only the fact that he wants to go to Stoke.

 

FFS, he'll be back in the CCC next season anyway!! It seems there is, again, much more to this story than 'player wanting to go to Premier League'.

 

Here's a suggestion - if Lowe is really concerned about the costs, why doesn't he set the lead by taking and forcing his executive colleagues to take a 50% pay cut....???????

 

CHALLENGE LOWE AND WILDE >>>>> OVER TO YOU

 

 

Signs with a relegation release clause. A) They stay up (lol); B) Has virtually a whole season in the Premiership shop window and secures a move to a better club; or C) If not, has a couple of seasons in the CCC on inflated wages.

 

Can't lose and all three are preferable to a season with us and the risk of not getting paid at some point.

[John B]

What baffles me is that any SANE Saints Fan can read that and not agree.

 

Lowe is not to blame for our demise - it is a combination of ineptitude from many, many people.

 

However, my main concern is the here and now.

 

Selling Davies and Surman will be the biggest disaster since relegation - not because of who these players are and their performances, but the message that this sends out to the masses - the other players who do give their all, and the fans.

 

My problem with this situation is this - firstly, goes against all of the arguments placed by Lowe and Wilde upon their return - yes the younger players are our future, but what is the bloody point if it is these players you get rid of first?

 

If no-one will buy Skacel - release the waste of space and get his wages off the payroll - or offer Ipswich £4k per week to take him off our hands.

 

If we're not going to play him what's the point?

 

Secondly, if Lowe does sell Surman to Reading - why can't we have Alan Bennett as part of the deal?

 

This would cover the loss of Davies which I find ridiculous - on many fronts, not only the fact that he wants to go to Stoke.

 

FFS, he'll be back in the CCC next season anyway!! It seems there is, again, much more to this story than 'player wanting to go to Premier League'.

 

Here's a suggestion - if Lowe is really concerned about the costs, why doesn't he set the lead by taking and forcing his executive colleagues to take a 50% pay cut....???????

 

CHALLENGE LOWE AND WILDE >>>>> OVER TO YOU

 

 

I agree with what you are saying but our immediate problem is that we need about £4million

 

But no one wants to Buy Rasiak Saga Euell Viafara Skacel Thomas etc so we have no alternative IMO

 

Lowe and Cowen are working half price anyway

[John B]

Agree with all you write, but it doesnt help us.

 

Let's just focus on getting Lowe and Wilde out, and trying to keep some players.

 

You really have no idea .

 

 

The Bank wants £4 Million so please send a cheque and then get Lowe and Wilde out if you want

[Long Shot]

What baffles me is that any SANE Saints Fan can read that and not agree.

 

Lowe is not to blame for our demise - it is a combination of ineptitude from many, many people.

 

However, my main concern is the here and now.

 

Selling Davies and Surman will be the biggest disaster since relegation - not because of who these players are and their performances, but the message that this sends out to the masses - the other players who do give their all, and the fans.

 

My problem with this situation is this - firstly, goes against all of the arguments placed by Lowe and Wilde upon their return - yes the younger players are our future, but what is the bloody point if it is these players you get rid of first?

 

If no-one will buy Skacel - release the waste of space and get his wages off the payroll - or offer Ipswich £4k per week to take him off our hands.

 

If we're not going to play him what's the point?

 

Secondly, if Lowe does sell Surman to Reading - why can't we have Alan Bennett as part of the deal?

 

This would cover the loss of Davies which I find ridiculous - on many fronts, not only the fact that he wants to go to Stoke.

 

FFS, he'll be back in the CCC next season anyway!! It seems there is, again, much more to this story than 'player wanting to go to Premier League'.

 

Here's a suggestion - if Lowe is really concerned about the costs, why doesn't he set the lead by taking and forcing his executive colleagues to take a 50% pay cut....???????

 

CHALLENGE LOWE AND WILDE >>>>> OVER TO YOU

 

I think Bennett has been released and gone back to ireland.

[Long Shot]

TBH, if youve got the time and impetus to sit down and draw up that comparision with the Nuremberg War Trails, then I can only suggest that you are not of a sound mind.

 

 

Are there any Saints fans around today with a "sound" mind?

[stevegrant]

I think Bennett has been released and gone back to ireland.

SoccerBase are saying he's on loan at Brentford again.

[ottery st mary]

Nothing like looking forward.

 

The freefall happened long ago. Even if we go down again it's nothing compared to the relegation from the premiership to this league. I personally think we'll survive, but I don't see how dwelling on the past, who got us in the mess etc will help one bit. Not that punching George Burley or Harry Redknapp wouldn't be satisfying of course.

 

The only question that never seems to be answered is that Lowe and Wilde returned and once again with no financial imput. No reliance on selling players as it is now quite clear it will not happen or clubs hold us to ransom so where is there money as Directors to cover this shortfall until

the players are sold? All I ever hear is it is their club and their shares so great forward thinking when they have not got the money before or now.

I know you are a supporter of the said duo and the club but I do not call their strategy very sound for supposed financial big men.

 

You know as well as we all do to sell players is a no brainer so why take players in part exchange who you and I both know is not even good enough for our reserves or is it blackmail.

[Channon's Sideburns]

I agree with what you are saying but our immediate problem is that we need about £4million

 

But no one wants to Buy Rasiak Saga Euell Viafara Skacel Thomas etc so we have no alternative IMO

 

Lowe and Cowen are working half price anyway

 

Oh sorry John, I must have missed the public statement from Lowe and Cowen stating their salaries - care to point me in that direction??

 

Or is it a general statement (not confirming figures) that the masses have chosen to take as gospel, because 'why should they lie?'.

 

They hold us all in contempt - wake up and see it.

 

Rasiak - gone, only on loan, great deal for the club there Rupes;

Saga - gone, only on loan, great deal for the club there Rupes;

Euell - still here drawing wages but not being used - great management;

Viafara - different case

Skacel - waste of space, release the idiot, get him out of the club now.

Thomas - offer him out on a free to release wages if that's what you want to do...

 

Funny how Rupert leaked his mistrust for the 'playing mercenaries' - looks like it's already come back to bite him on the rear end.

 

Well done Rupert, your mercenaries are now bleeding you dry.

[Doctoroncall]

Alan Bennett was released by Reading so he's available as a free. He was rather miffed by it to considering he wasn't one of the many first teamers who what to leave and continue their EPL career.

[Channon's Sideburns]

alan bennett was released by reading so he's available as a free. He was rather miffed by it to considering he wasn't one of the many first teamers who what to leave and continue their epl career.

 

 

so why the hell aren't we knocking on his agent's door then????????

[Long Shot]

Don't get me wrong I can see no other alternative to what Wilde and Lowe are doing now. It seems we have no choice - but one point of my thread is we should realise a lot of the reason we are in this mess is because of them and others.

 

It does irk me to see the grand architect of this situation accepting Director hospitality on Saturday. I think Askham has a lot to answer for and has got away largely scot free with public criticism. At least Lowe and Wilde put their mugs above the parapet now and again.

[ottery st mary]

Alan Bennett was released by Reading so he's available as a free. He was rather miffed by it to considering he wasn't one of the many first teamers who what to leave and continue their EPL career.

 

Contract at Brentford?

[Doctoroncall]

so why the hell aren't we knocking on his agent's door then????????

 

Indeed (or why isn't he knocking on our door?). Defence seems to be in need of a recruit or two given the frailty of our CB's and the form of Thomas. Certainly more so than the midfield with the alledged interest in Pulis.

[broncoboy]

I dont understand how Rupert and Michael Wide imagined they could do advance the club without financial investment. Did Rupert really believe when we were in the Premiership that we could become a bigger club without serious investment

 

Even then we sold a good player every year. So what was the masterplan

 

If we now have to sell the young players then all that will happen is that everytime one looks to be making the grade he will attract the attention of other clubs and we will lose him early in his career for little money. That is not a strategy that is just hanging on and hoping somehthing will turn up

 

Reality is Rupert & Co have no hope of pushing this club forward all they can offer is a lingering death as they sell offevery player of merit to meet the monthly costs

 

Lok forward to hearing from the luvvies to explain how he is going to save the club

[Doctoroncall]

Contract at Brentford?

 

Yes, just checked and he's played both games and has been given the No. 6 shirt.

[Andoverian]

says today's Independent referring to Southampton FC, and with the inevitable sale - it seems - of Davies and perhaps Surman (Readings DoF was in the director's box on Saturday) the above description is becoming uncomfortably close to being right.

 

While there is sometimes no point in playing the blame game because what's happened can't be altered I feel, in the light of Askham's presence in the Director's box on Saturday, that we should be bringing those most responsible for our demise to trial.

 

Having just read "The Nuremberg War trials" by Airey Neave while on holiday (yes I know not very light reading but I had read all mine and this was in the villa bookcase) I would like to lay charges as follows to the following "war" criminals in order of culpability.

 

Guy Askham - you are charged with starting the whole shooting match in the first place by putting in place a highly suspicious reverse takeover that turned SFC into a PLC and lined your own and others pockets while some long-standing servants were conned out of their shares. You then sat back and watched as your partner in crime, Rupert Lowe, despite showing early promise, turned this club from being one of the most respected clubs in the country into a laughing stock. You alone could have spoken up in our hour of need but you chose to melt into the shadows while Rome burned and now you have the cheek to once again sit at the feet of the emperor's throne. Shame on you.

 

Rupert Lowe - you are charged as being an accomplice of the reverse takeover and subsequent dereliction of duty as you oversaw the clubs established Premiership pedigree evaporate amid a plethora of unwise managerial appointments. Your failure to see the warning signals in our relegation year and your subsequent mis management of the first year of the parachute payments has cost this club dear and set us on the spiralling downward path we now tread. You are also charged with being pompous, arrogant and gaffe prone PR wise.

 

Michael Wilde - you are charged with a gross case of misleading the fanbase with promises and manifestos you could never keep. You are also charged with imcompetent mismanagement of the highest degree with your appointment of a discredited executive team. In the middle of the storm you then abandoned the ship which means a dereliction of duty charge only apt. Your involvement short has been, in short, disastrous.

 

Hone/Dulieu - charged with mass incompetence and lack of PR skills. Also charged with bullying and harrassment of employees and fans.

 

Leon Crouch - you are charged with 1st degree niaivity which nearly had grave consequences. Despite the good ship Southampton heading for the rocks you continually pointed the telescope to the open sea and refused to address the impending wreck until it was almost too late. Your patronisation of the fanbase was also inexcusable and it is considered you are unfit to serve on a football board ever again.

 

Keith Wiseman - you are charged as beeing weak willed and knock kneed. You have also wined and dined on Southampton FC far too long without contributing anything worth mentioning. In short you are a complete waste of space.

 

Lawrie MacMenemy - despite your known distaste for Mr Lowe and Mr Askham you were still prepared to line you pockets at the reverse takeover and then watch silently from the wings until your turn came again to feed at the trough. You have served this club well in the past but your time is up.

 

George Burley - you are charged with losing interest and being a manager that led the unfittest side in Saints history. You signed a lot of highly paid underperforming footballers over the last 18 months and when the slide came you couldn't be bothered to address the situation. You were content to sit back and tread water until the right offer came in and you left behing the most demotivated squad since Ian Branfoot. A 1st degree negligence charge is laid at your door.

 

Steve Wigley - charged with mass ineptitude of the highest degree. You let yourself be talked into a position you didn't want and you showed weak character in not standing up to the "playground bully".

 

The Saints Trust - despite a much vaunted launch amid promises and big talk you failed to have any effect at a time when the fans were crying out for a united voice. In fact you took on the appearance of a rabbit caught in headlights and today most don't even believe you exist such is your timidity. You wasted a golden opportunity to stand up and be counted and you are charged with cowardice under fire.

 

Gordon Strachan - another who left a sinking ship. You are also charged with being economical with the truth over your reasons for leaving.

 

Jason Dodd/John Gorman - you are charged with being absolutely useless and overseeing the worst ever performance by a Saints side in modern times.

 

Harry Redknapp - you are charged with treason, no more no less.

 

Sir Clive Woodwood - you are charged with carrying out dangerous experiments with guinea pigs not up to the task. You are also charged with bringing the biggest clown in football to Staplewood, Simon Clifford. His arrival was another nail in our coffin as it alienated the back room staff.

 

All in all this is a very sorry state of affairs and the prosecution calls for a 100% blanket ban on all the above ever entering SMS again.

 

Well done Long Shot! Not only did I enjoy your very amusing and interesting comparison

but you are quite right! However the real villain of the whole peace is Lowe. He failed to back the team by using a fair proportion of the money that we made by getting to the Cup Final and with Strachan, not surprisingly, leaving soon after, the club has been in total freefall ever since. By the way does anybody know where that income went. Crowds were high (30,000+) and expenditure was low particularly as we were a Premiership club. That is the time when a clever,astute and less arrogant chairman would have made the right decisions that would have kept the club on track. Lowe is a seller by inclination as he has no real understanding of what football is all about.Why should he! He only arrived on the back of a very iffy reverse takeover deal that did nobody any good except a few greedy individuals with their snouts in the trough. We have been reaping the folly of that deal which turned the club into a public company ever since. I'm totally convinced that it has made it hard for a number of potential investors to get involved. It's just another business to Lowe and he has proved time and time again that even as a businessman he really doesn't have a clue. How he is back at the helm I will never understand. Wilde has a lot to answer for and history will judge him accordingly. I'll continue to be there both home and away and I pledge to renew my season ticket once again at the end of the season but it doesn't stop me having a bad taste in the mouth about what has gone on in recent years.

[stevegrant]

Crowds were high (30,000+) and expenditure was low particularly as we were a Premiership club.

Sorry, what?!?!

[Matthew Le God]

Comparing the misfortunes and boardroom fighting at a football club to the war crimes, genocide - extermination of 6 million Jews etc of the Nazi party during WWII is quite bad taste really

[benjii]

I dont understand how Rupert and Michael Wide imagined they could do advance the club without financial investment. Did Rupert really believe when we were in the Premiership that we could become a bigger club without serious investment

 

Even then we sold a good player every year. So what was the masterplan

 

If we now have to sell the young players then all that will happen is that everytime one looks to be making the grade he will attract the attention of other clubs and we will lose him early in his career for little money. That is not a strategy that is just hanging on and hoping somehthing will turn up

 

Reality is Rupert & Co have no hope of pushing this club forward all they can offer is a lingering death as they sell offevery player of merit to meet the monthly costs

 

Lok forward to hearing from the luvvies to explain how he is going to save the club

 

Yes, "the Machester United of the South" , I believe.

[benjii]

Sorry, what?!?!

 

I think he's saying that our outgoings were small, for a Premiership club.

[Doctoroncall]

I dont understand how Rupert and Michael Wide imagined they could do advance the club without financial investment. Did Rupert really believe when we were in the Premiership that we could become a bigger club without serious investment

 

Even then we sold a good player every year. So what was the masterplan

 

If we now have to sell the young players then all that will happen is that everytime one looks to be making the grade he will attract the attention of other clubs and we will lose him early in his career for little money. That is not a strategy that is just hanging on and hoping somehthing will turn up

 

Reality is Rupert & Co have no hope of pushing this club forward all they can offer is a lingering death as they sell offevery player of merit to meet the monthly costs

 

Lok forward to hearing from the luvvies to explain how he is going to save the club

 

Not a lowe-ite, but wanted to comment on his masterplan:

 

I suppose the point of having an excellent academy which he saw the value before many other chairmen was develop players with a first class coaching team so that they could be introduced into the first team along with the odd incoming transfer based on the fact we would continue to sell players.

 

Where he totally messed up and perhaps should have gone foreign much earlier is on the football management side to support this process.

 

It seems this country is never going to adopt radical changes unless there is a foreign manager (Wenger, Ramos, Benitez etc) to instigate them. Great coaches they are but we also had them once but the likes of Hogan, Hutton and Hamilton had to go abroad to continue to develop football the way they wanted to play (passing game rather than the physical game).

[benjii]

Comparing the misfortunes and boardroom fighting at a football club to the war crimes, genocide - extermination of 6 million Jews etc of the Nazi party during WWII is quite bad taste really

 

Don't be so wet.

 

And no one's comparing it with the Second World War.

[benjii]

Not a lowe-ite, but wanted to comment on his masterplan:

 

I suppose the point of having an excellent academy which he saw the value before many other chairmen was develop players with a first class coaching team so that they could be introduced into the first team along with the odd incoming transfer based on the fact we would continue to sell players.

 

Where he totally messed up and perhaps should have gone foreign much earlier is on the football management side to support this process.

 

It seems this country is never going to adopt radical changes unless there is a foreign manager (Wenger, Ramos, Benitez etc) to instigate them. Great coaches they are but we also had them once but the likes of Hogan, Hutton and Hamilton had to go abroad to continue to develop football the way they wanted to play (passing game rather than the physical game).

 

 

I think every chairman in football knows that a good academy can provide good players on the cheap.

 

What they also know is that to place complete reliance on this happening is utter folly and extremely high risk.

[Matthew Le God]

Don't be so wet.

 

And no one's comparing it with the Second World War.

 

He called them war criminals

 

I would like to lay charges as follows to the following war criminals in order of culpability.

 

The Nuremburg reference wasn't really needed. He could have just had criminal charges if he wanted to do it in a story fantasy way.

 

Amounts to what Seb Blatter said about football club using "slavery" to keep players. Inappropriate and not needed. Just make the point without such childish comparisons.

[benjii]

He called them war criminals

 

 

 

The Nuremburg reference wasn't really needed. He could have just had criminal charges if he wanted to do it in a story fantasy way.

 

Amounts to what Seb Blatter said about football club using "slavery" to keep players. Inappropriate and not needed. Just make the point without such childish comparisons.

 

He actually called them '"war" criminals'. Not, "war criminals" clearly indicating a schism between the horrors of war and the spastic thrashings of a mentalist football club.

 

The Nuremberg reference described how he was inspired to create this thread having read a book.

[aintforever]

Here's a suggestion - if Lowe is really concerned about the costs, why doesn't he set the lead by taking and forcing his executive colleagues to take a 50% pay cut....???????

 

CHALLENGE LOWE AND WILDE >>>>> OVER TO YOU

 

Does anyone know how much Lowe and Cowan earn. Surely as a PLC we should be able to find how much they are taking out?

[benjii]

Does anyone know how much Lowe and Cowan earn. Surely as a PLC we should be able to find how much they are taking out?

 

Aggregate director's emoluments will be in the Annual Report as will the earnings of the highest paid director (presumably Lowe although if he is only working three days a week then it could be Dave Jones).

 

Some companies will state the individual earnings of director's but I don't think there's an obligation to.

 

I think the least Lowe could do (if it is liquid and available) in our current state is loan back, on favourable terms, his portion of the £563,000 termination payments paid in 2007 now he's back on the payroll. Likewise Cowan, if he can.

[Snowballs2]

Does anyone know how much Lowe and Cowan earn. Surely as a PLC we should be able to find how much they are taking out?

 

It does not matter how much they get...we cannot afford them end of story

[Thedelldays]

Aggregate director's emoluments will be in the Annual Report as will the earnings of the highest paid director (presumably Lowe although if he is only working three days a week then it could be Dave Jones).

 

Some companies will state the individual earnings of director's but I don't think there's an obligation to.

 

I think the least Lowe could do (if it is liquid and available) in our current state is loan back, on favourable terms, his portion of the £563,000 termination payments paid in 2007 now he's back on the payroll. Likewise Cowan, if he can.

 

maybe his pay off was/is being paid as a salary and has been frozen now he is back on the pay roll...we just dont know

[benjii]

maybe his pay off was/is being paid as a salary and has been frozen now he is back on the pay roll...we just dont know

 

No, such a pay-off would almost certainly have been lump-sum.

[aintforever]

Lowe sacked Woggy even though he earned peanuts and offered to work for half wages -all in the name of cost cutting. Yet we still can't find out how many thousands he sucks out the club - great. What is the point in being a plc again?!?

[stevegrant]

Lowe sacked Woggy even though he earned peanuts and offered to work for half wages -all in the name of cost cutting. Yet we still can't find out how many thousands he sucks out the club - great. What is the point in being a plc again?!?

If you're a shareholder, I believe you are entitled to inspect the company directors' contracts at the registered office, i.e. St Mary's.

[Whitey Grandad]

From the Times today:

 

"It is a sad state of affairs when, less than two weeks into the season, a manager admits that he is not sure which of his players are staying at the club, who is leaving, where they are going and when the fire sale will stop."

 

and...

 

"Asked how much the club needed to either bring in through sales or cut from the wage bill, he said: “I don’t know exactly, except that maybe it is something like £6 million. I’m not sure if they will shoot me now.” Cue swift intervention from alarmed Southampton PR official."

 

Does anybody know the true figure of our 'losses'? I have seen figures like £15million a year but if it really is that big then we could sell all the players and still be £12million short,

[stevegrant]

Does anybody know the true figure of our 'losses'? I have seen figures like £15million a year but if it really is that big then we could sell all the players and still be £12million short,

The operating loss for the year is around £17m, offset by a £12m profit on player trading, resulting in an overall loss of about £5m.

 

Quite how we managed to spend £31m (revenue of circa £14m) in the 12 months from July 07 to June 08 is beyond me. Absolutely staggering figures.

[John B]

The operating loss for the year is around £17m, offset by a £12m profit on player trading, resulting in an overall loss of about £5m.

 

Quite how we managed to spend £31m (revenue of circa £14m) in the 12 months from July 07 to June 08 is beyond me. Absolutely staggering figures.

 

Yes I agree Steve which goes to show investing heavily in players does not lead to the promised land.

[Whitey Grandad]

The operating loss for the year is around £17m, offset by a £12m profit on player trading, resulting in an overall loss of about £5m.

 

Quite how we managed to spend £31m (revenue of circa £14m) in the 12 months from July 07 to June 08 is beyond me. Absolutely staggering figures.

 

Thanks. I would love to see the budgetary projections for this season. I assume that the bulk of the £31m was on players' salaries. If not, then there is something seriously adrift. That sort of figure is comparable to a club at the bottom of the premiership.

[benjii]

Thanks. I would love to see the budgetary projections for this season. I assume that the bulk of the £31m was on players' salaries. If not, then there is something seriously adrift. That sort of figure is comparable to a club at the bottom of the premiership.

 

Player salaries were about £12million I think. Not sure where this £31m figure came from.

 

To be honest, it doesn't matter much now. We need money quickly.

[benjii]

If you're a shareholder, I believe you are entitled to inspect the company directors' contracts at the registered office, i.e. St Mary's.

 

 

This is correct. Section 318 of the Companies Act 1985. Not sure if it has been amended/repealed etc. by the new Companies Act but I doubt it.

 

Any shareholders who can be arsed to go and have a look? Would be quite interesting to find out!

[John B]

Player salaries were about £12million I think. Not sure where this £31m figure came from.

 

To be honest, it doesn't matter much now. We need money quickly.

 

Yes income from player sales was £12m yet we lost £5million

Edited 18 August, 2008 by John B

[stevegrant]

Thanks. I would love to see the budgetary projections for this season. I assume that the bulk of the £31m was on players' salaries. If not, then there is something seriously adrift. That sort of figure is comparable to a club at the bottom of the premiership.

The interim report stated that player and coach wages accounted for £6.1m of £14.4m operating expenses for the 6 months to 31 December 2007. Extrapolating that out to the end of June, that's roughly £12m of £31m on wages (although it's possible that wage costs for the second half of the season were even higher due to the loan players we brought in, Richard Wright in particular). As a percentage of costs, that's actually perfectly manageable. Unfortunately, the costs themselves are more than twice the revenue.

 

Deloitte & Touche recommend that player salaries should not exceed 60% of the club's revenue. At the moment, we're pushing 85%. That's simply ridiculous.

 

60% of revenue is £8.4m, so that's got to be the target.

 

The following players have left (guesstimate wage figures in brackets):

Safri (£8k)

Wright (£5k)

Ostlund (£7k)

Lundekvam (£15k)

Licka (£4k)

Makin (£7k)

Idiakez (£10k)

Powell (£10k)

 

Also, Rasiak (£20k) and Saganowski (£10k) are off the wage bill for the forseeable future, so we're clearly taking a step in the right direction on that front.

 

If my guesstimates are anywhere near accurate, that's £96k per week (nearly £5m per year) removed from the wage bill, which would bring it right in line with the recommended wages:turnover ratio. Of course there have been additions, but I don't expect Holmes, Schneiderlin, Perry, Wotton or Forecast to be on big basic salaries. I'd expect them to have decent bonus schemes which reward them for their own performances and that of the team, which I think is the right way to go, particularly for a middling-sized club like ours.

 

The reason for still requiring player sales is, in my opinion, two-fold:

 

1. Short-term cashflow to keep the bank happy - I'm sure they're satisfied with the salary cutbacks made to date, but even with those, we're still spending about £25m from £14m revenue;

2. Get a bit of cash in for a couple of players who could be replaced with a number of slightly lesser but "decent" players on smaller salaries, thereby ensuring we've still got cover for key positions but so that we're not keeping too many high earners.