Master Bates Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Jan Poortvliet has hit out at his replacement at Southampton, Jan Wotte, after seeing his assistant step into his shoes at St Mary's. Poortvliet paid the price for a dismal record of one home win in 14 games with the sack last week and Wotte replaced him with "mixed feelings". In an interview with De Telegraaf, Poortvliet claimed: "It is far from chic what he does. "When everything is settled, Wotte must do what he wants. "I am sick of this man." Wotte oversaw a 2-2 draw with Norwich City on Tuesday night as his side fought back from 2-0 down to claim a point. http://www.setanta.com//uk/Articles/Football/2009/1/28/Championship-Poortvliet-on-Wotte/gnid-37457/ http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/voetbal/3105596/__Poortvliet_is_Wotte_spuugzat__.html?p=6,2 Who's Jan Wotte???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 I was told recently there was never any love between Poortvliet and Wotte. It was suggested Wotte was not happy to see Poortvliet brought in above him at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Inspires confidence doesn't it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Incongruous Monk Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 With the help of Google translate it would seem this is a little spat over Wotte taking over before Poortvliet's departure is properly finalised and settled... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 28 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Maybe: Players liked Poortvliet because he was soft Players had Mark Wotte because he gives them a kick up the backside all imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Bowood Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 was told by an ex-player some time ago that Poortvliet and Wotte didn't like each other rarely spoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Maybe: Players liked Poortvliet because he was soft Players had Mark Wotte because he gives them a kick up the backside all imo Not sure you means that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Jan Poortvliet has hit out at his replacement at Southampton, Jan Wotte, after seeing his assistant step into his shoes at St Mary's. Poortvliet paid the price for a dismal record of one home win in 14 games with the sack last week and Wotte replaced him with "mixed feelings". In an interview with De Telegraaf, Poortvliet claimed: "It is far from chic what he does. "When everything is settled, Wotte must do what he wants. "I am sick of this man." Wotte oversaw a 2-2 draw with Norwich City on Tuesday night as his side fought back from 2-0 down to claim a point. http://www.setanta.com//uk/Articles/Football/2009/1/28/Championship-Poortvliet-on-Wotte/gnid-37457/ http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/voetbal/3105596/__Poortvliet_is_Wotte_spuugzat__.html?p=6,2 Who's Jan Wotte???????? I thought he wasn't sacked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowsaintsfan Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Maybe: Players liked Poortvliet because he was soft Players had Mark Wotte because he gives them a kick up the backside all imo was it the team talk yesterday or just because Saga came on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 28 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 28 January, 2009 was it the team talk yesterday or just because Saga came on? I really don't know, could have been a mixture, including the fact of playing 4 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Is it something to do with JP having his hands continually tied, whilst at The mighty Saints. I have had to speak to Max Mosely about this strange practice. Looks like I will have to speak to Rupert, before Wotte is subjected to the same public Shoolboy games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 28 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 28 January, 2009 the magical formation that wins all football matches? I'd prefer 4-4-3, Davis upfront between ****a & Goldenboy. Is that allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 was it the team talk yesterday or just because Saga came on? I wouldn't know as I didn't see the game but I suspect bringing on our best striker helped. **** knows why he didn't start the game, according to Wotte it was hard to decide between mcg and saga but he went with mcg because he's "quicker on the break." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 according to Wotte it was hard to decide between mcg and saga but he went with mcg because he's "quicker on the break." Makes sense seeing as we went for a point and to hopefully nick a breakaway goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 I thought he wasn't sacked? Well he bought himself out of his Helmond contract, what price do you think he paid this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgiansaint Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 (edited) What p***es JP off is that, as a fellow member of the Dutch pro football managers association (CBV), MW should have stuck to the CBV code of conduct according to which no coach agrees to step in as long as all details of his predecessor's departure have been settled. Hence the "When everything is settled, Wotte CAN (not "MUST" - poor translation on Setanta) do what he wants." The association's director has warned Saints that MW had broken their code of conduct. Edited 28 January, 2009 by Belgiansaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 What p***es JP off is that, as a fellow member of the Dutch pro football managers association (CBV), MW should have stuck to the CBV code of conduct according to which no coach agrees to step in as long as all details of his predecessor's departure have been settled. Hence the "When everything is settled, Wotte CAN (not "MUST" - poor translation on Setanta) do what he wants." cheers for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Well he bought himself out of his Helmond contract, what price do you think he paid this time? I think he paid the price of signing a non disclosure agreement forbiding him from talking about Lowe and the other muppet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plumstead_Saint Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 What p***es JP off is that, as a fellow member of the Dutch pro football managers association (CBV), MW should have stuck to the CBV code of conduct according to which no coach agrees to step in as long as all details of his predecessor's departure have been settled. Hence the "When everything is settled, Wotte CAN (not "MUST" - poor translation on Setanta) do what he wants." The association's director has warned Saints that MW had broken their code of conduct. Cheers for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plumstead_Saint Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 was it the team talk yesterday or just because Saga came on? And Jason Euell. If not for his goal line clearance in the final minutes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7547806.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Watching this video for the first time....Confused how Wotte can be removed from the coach duo idea...I always thought at training and matches they were a pair. Together with Lowe and Kim it was a team effort and therefore I am unable to see why JP is solely the scapegoat....I am not even convinced JP made all or even most of the decisions to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7547806.stm well they seemed pretty damm pally for two that allegedley don't get on. Pehaps wotte could be in the team with those heading skills he should fit in well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 well they seemed pretty damm pally for two that allegedley don't get on. Pehaps wotte could be in the team with those heading skills he should fit in well! He was about his hair and tv makeup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Wotte comes accross as being a bit fake imo. In the press conference when he unveiled himself and Michael Svensson he was all pally pally with MS and MS looked a bit stanoffish as if to say "What the Fvck are you on man, stop touching my leg you cvnt". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 In a bizarre way it inspires a bit of confidence they might be different. I liked JP, it seemed many players did, but I don't recall a successful side ever going on about how much they liked the manager. It was the same with Wigley, very popular with players. I for one hope they don't like Wotte so much. Maybe a bit more fear and respect would help. Agreed and, coincidentally, I think the same sort fear and respect which the players had for NP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxfordshire_saint Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 After using Google language tools to translate the page, it's interesting to read the comments made on the article. Basically labelling Poortvliet a hypocrite due to the way he walked out on Helmond and saying that Wotte is arrogant and useless. Onwards and upwards eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 After using Google language tools to translate the page, it's interesting to read the comments made on the article. Basically labelling Poortvliet a hypocrite due to the way he walked out on Helmond and saying that Wotte is arrogant and useless. Onwards and upwards eh? In retrospect, I know that Wotte had " accepted the job " several years ago before Burley " suddenly arrived." instead. As Wotte was Lowe's choice in the first place ... WHERE/ WHEN/ HOW......did Poorvliet come into the picture....and WHY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Mullet Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Wotte comes accross as being a bit fake imo. In the press conference when he unveiled himself and Michael Svensson he was all pally pally with MS and MS looked a bit stanoffish as if to say "What the Fvck are you on man, stop touching my leg you cvnt". Not sure why but that's brilliant, I just lol'd chicken and rice all down my shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 (edited) In retrospect, I know that Wotte had " accepted the job " several years ago before Burley " suddenly arrived." instead. As Wotte was Lowe's choice in the first place ... WHERE/ WHEN/ HOW......did Poorvliet come into the picture....and WHY? If kim van de Waals was agent for both of them (was that ever confirmed?) then perhaps Waals was trying to maximize his 'commision' and managed to convince Lowe that two untried Dutch heads would be better (less risky?) than one? Just a hunch. Probably miles from the truth... Edited 28 January, 2009 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 If kim van de Waals was agent for both of them (was that ever confirmed?) then perhaps Waals was trying to maximize his 'commision' and managed to convince Lowe that two untried Dutch heads would be better (less risky?) than one? Just a hunch. Probably miles from the truth... Time to change your avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDonkey Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 I like the way some people are trying to associate Wotte with Poortvliet's failure - and thus write him off before he's had a chance - when all the evidence seems to be that they really didn't get on and barely spoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 If kim van de Waals was agent for both of them (was that ever confirmed?) then perhaps Waals was trying to maximize his 'commision' and managed to convince Lowe that two untried Dutch heads would be better (less risky?) than one? Just a hunch. Probably miles from the truth... Couldnt you do an avatar of Wotte and the chocolate man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Couldnt you do an avatar of Wotte and the chocolate man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Time to change your avatar. Crouch hasn't insisted I remove him yet. He stays and I will henchforth double my efforts not to post drivel every 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 If kim van de Waals was agent for both of them (was that ever confirmed?) then perhaps Waals was trying to maximize his 'commision' and managed to convince Lowe that two untried Dutch heads would be better (less risky?) than one? Just a hunch. Probably miles from the truth... WEEEEEEEEEEEL...I could think of sillier scenarios, I suppose. I know there is a conspiracy theory in everything, now ..tell me that van der Waaaaaaaaals is also agent for Dean Gorre ?.. ......and I might start to believe you've got the right thread. Not that I'm saying that Wotte and Gorre won't turn things around...just because they're both Dutch and so was JP - thats only guilt by association. Ask me again in april, but meanwhile expect Denan boom (or whoever he is ) to join " Sale " and then... the coup de grace...we sign that other Dutchman...EDWIN... VAN DER GOALIE !!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ron fan Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 In retrospect, I know that Wotte had " accepted the job " several years ago before Burley " suddenly arrived." instead. As Wotte was Lowe's choice in the first place ... WHERE/ WHEN/ HOW......did Poorvliet come into the picture....and WHY? Yes, this is the bit I find very confusing. Someone please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Perhaps Wotte just told Jan that he thought he was a crap coach. Ever tried working with a 100% idiot who's incompetent yet has the authority to do whatever he wants? It really gets on your tits,and as he's on another department you can't ball him out without blowing the whistle on him to senior management because of the command chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkiesaint Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 can only be Kim 'The Force' as far as i can see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Yes, this is the bit I find very confusing. Someone please explain. Perhaps Mike Wilde didn't fancy rubber stamping one of Rupert's former "choices". I mean Wotte's CV is by far superior to Jan's, he might even be considered as a "good signing". The rest is an enigma, unless Rupert (and Mike) knew that it might go tits up and wanted an extra "fuse". They perhaps might not be as ignorant about football as we think and knew that the kids first system was a sure fire f*ck up,relying totally on a good run of results at the end of the season to save our sorry asses (dangerous strategy,worked last season though). They've slashed costs and now we're going into overdrive with the first fuse gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 (edited) I like the way some people are trying to associate Wotte with Poortvliet's failure - and thus write him off before he's had a chance - when all the evidence seems to be that they really didn't get on and barely spoke. Read the article then you may realise why the 2 are being linked, after all "its a team of 4 who will work together and take responsibility for coaching all our players" Lowe, Wilde whoever can't make statements about it all being "a seamless link" and "all training the same way so players can simply slot in" then blame everything on Jan.!! Not in my opinion anyway! http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=10167 Edited 28 January, 2009 by St. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Perhaps Mike Wilde didn't fancy rubber stamping one of Rupert's former "choices". I mean Wotte's CV is by far superior to Jan's, he might even be considered as a "good signing". The rest is an enigma, unless Rupert (and Mike) knew that it might go tits up and wanted an extra "fuse". They perhaps might not be as ignorant about football as we think and knew that the kids first system was a sure fire f*ck up,relying totally on a good run of results at the end of the season to save our sorry asses (dangerous strategy,worked last season though). They've slashed costs and now we're going into overdrive with the first fuse gone. Good post WC, finally somebody else on here trying to read between the lines of WTF is going on. My alternate take was that Wotte has a good reputation with bringing the kids through and didn't actually want the higher risk role of being the first team coach - nice little back office number, not much in terms of deliverables as we say in Corp land. Then whether he disagreed with JP's almost stalinistic view on We will play this way, maybe they fell out. My reading of some of the comments is that Wotte was reluctant because he is now in 50:50 land - some good results he keeps his job but gets all the pressure, some bad results - he loses his nice cushy number. Must be about another 4,000 reasons out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 So, the suggestion is that Poortvliet was a naive pawn being set-up for inevitable failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7547806.stm lmfao!! I note the camera shot of the Titanic plaque, how appropriate is that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 lmfao!! I note the camera shot of the Titanic plaque, how appropriate is that Yeah, I thought that....I wonder if Poortvliet and Wotte cottoned on to the fact that they were probably the subject of an in-joke within the BBC South Today production team? (for I assume they chose the filming location for a bit of a chuckle?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Perhaps Mike Wilde didn't fancy rubber stamping one of Rupert's former "choices". Believe you me, Wilde may hold the biggest single amount of shares, but there is only one man running the show, and he's the one gone skiing. I mean Wotte's CV is by far superior to Jan's, he might even be considered as a "good signing". With the exception of his Technical Director role at Feyenoord (which ended in abject failure) and his stint at U 21 level, then I have to say Wotte's CV isn't actually that inspiring (and littered with a few relegations). And with all due respect to ourselves, if he was any good then he would have been someone other than running our ressies!!!!!! They perhaps might not be as ignorant about football as we think and knew that the kids first system was a sure fire f*ck up,relying totally on a good run of results at the end of the season to save our sorry asses (dangerous strategy,worked last season though). Lowe may have lost his touch in running a football club (or as some have said, he is struggling to cope without the millions from SKY), but he's not a total mentalist. There is no way he went into this season with Poortvliet thinking anything other than this would come off (even if it was with fingers crossed). If he thought Wotte was the better man last summer, then he would have appointed him there and then, and I certainly don't think he would have appointed Jan just so he could fail, so that he could then get his own way with Wotte!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Jason Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Good post WC, finally somebody else on here trying to read between the lines of WTF is going on. My alternate take was that Wotte has a good reputation with bringing the kids through and didn't actually want the higher risk role of being the first team coach - nice little back office number, not much in terms of deliverables as we say in Corp land. Then whether he disagreed with JP's almost stalinistic view on We will play this way, maybe they fell out. My reading of some of the comments is that Wotte was reluctant because he is now in 50:50 land - some good results he keeps his job but gets all the pressure, some bad results - he loses his nice cushy number. Must be about another 4,000 reasons out there As Mulder & Scully might say "we are not alone" in thinking this! http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=8856 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Baz Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Looks like the dutch haven't got much time for either Portvliet or Wotte. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.telegraaf.nl/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dde%2Btelegraaf%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7HPEB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Looks like the dutch haven't got much time for either Portvliet or Wotte. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.telegraaf.nl/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dde%2Btelegraaf%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7HPEB Which article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 28 January, 2009 Share Posted 28 January, 2009 Looks like the dutch haven't got much time for either Portvliet or Wotte. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.telegraaf.nl/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dde%2Btelegraaf%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7HPEB They certainly don't rate Wotte on there and a couple bring up his poor stints at clubs including relegation (or degredation!!!!) at a few clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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