The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[hypochondriac]

If they're scheduled to depart on a flight then give them a time limit to appeal. Any appeal needs to be done and dusted to allow time for the flight to leave with the people on board.

[egg]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I think if we're sending them back to France I don't see the relevance. Hand them to French authorities and let them deal with it. Don't come here illegally.

You've just asked for a change to the law. What change are you calling for? 

We can't just "send them back". You know better than to make comments like that. 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If they're scheduled to depart on a flight then give them a time limit to appeal. Any appeal needs to be done and dusted to allow time for the flight to leave with the people on board.

How can an asylum seeker meet a deadline to finalise an appeal when the application/asylum/appeal system is beyond their control?!

 

[hypochondriac]

56 minutes ago, egg said:

How can an asylum seeker meet a deadline to finalise an appeal when the application/asylum/appeal system is beyond their control?!

 

You misunderstand me. Their activist lawyers deliberately put in last minute appeals to delay their deportation. If we tell them they are getting deported in a week then they have to put an appeal in with enough time to process and reject it and then get sent off on the flight as planned. No last minute appeals and gunging up of the system. 

Edited Tuesday at 20:13 by hypochondriac

[skintsaint]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You misunderstand me. Their activist lawyers deliberately put in last minute appeals to delay their deportation. If we tell them they are getting deported in a week then they have to put an appeal in with enough time to process and reject it and then get sent off p bthe flight as planned. No last minute appeals and gungong up of the system. 

Reading this on the BBC, it seems fairly obvious they just threw in an appeal to avoid the deportation. According to the BBC when arriving here, he said to officials he had not been exploited. 

[hypochondriac]

I'd certainly be looking to renegotiate the echr where right to family life is routinely abused. Probably in partnership with other countries who are keen to make changes as well. If it's Impossible then we will likely have no choice but to leave. 

I'd look to be a tougher with some of these countries as well. If they don't  assist in taking back illegal citizens then they shouldn't be receiving substantial aid from us and we certainly shouldn't be making life easy for them. We need to be a lot more serious about tackling the problem.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Reading this on the BBC, it seems fairly obvious they just threw in an appeal to avoid the deportation. According to the BBC when arriving here, he said to officials he had not been exploited. 

Of course he did, they always do. It shouldn't be allowed. If you're making an appeal then it needs to be done earlier. If you miss the deadline to appeal then off you go. If you complain then tough you shouldn't have come here illegally.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You misunderstand me. Their activist lawyers deliberately put in last minute appeals to delay their deportation. If we tell them they are getting deported in a week then they have to put an appeal in with enough time to process and reject it and then get sent off p bthe flight as planned. No last minute appeals and gungong up of the system. 

That comes back to asylum seekers having to meet a deadline to which is beyond their control. The only ways to address the issue, I think , is (a) to tighten the criteria in all respects (including the relevance of slavery issues), (b) get the home office geared up to process and determine claims, and (c) throw judges at the appeal system. The watered down appeal system will just lead to more judicial reviews I'd imagine, and that'll probably be slower than the current system. 

There's no easy solution though. If we throw judges at this it takes them away from other areas of the system. 

It's a mess. 

 

 

[Gloucester Saint]

6 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Reading this on the BBC, it seems fairly obvious they just threw in an appeal to avoid the deportation. According to the BBC when arriving here, he said to officials he had not been exploited. 

It’s as subtle as a fart in Winchester Cathedral yet Clive Sheldon fell for it https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1dqe2443l1o

UK’s finest legal mind my arse. The double glazing firms and charity chuggers need to get round to his house pronto so he can give his life savings away. 

Edited Tuesday at 20:15 by Gloucester Saint

[egg]

5 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Reading this on the BBC, it seems fairly obvious they just threw in an appeal to avoid the deportation. According to the BBC when arriving here, he said to officials he had not been exploited. 

Yep. Initially he is said to have said that he wasn't exploited. He was when it would help him. 

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. Initially he is said to have said that he wasn't exploited. He was when it would help him. 

Dreadful from Sheldon. Bottled it. So obvious he had to go and he was being manipulated but couldn’t help himself. If he gets plenty of stick in public now then limited sympathy. Simple to do his job on this case and failed. Probably best that he steps down and lets another justice who can cope with lobbyist manipulation step up to the plate.

Edited Tuesday at 20:19 by Gloucester Saint

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, egg said:

That comes back to asylum seekers having to meet a deadline to which is beyond their control. The only ways to address the issue, I think , is (a) to tighten the criteria in all respects (including the relevance of slavery issues), (b) get the home office geared up to process and determine claims, and (c) throw judges at the appeal system. The watered down appeal system will just lead to more judicial reviews I'd imagine, and that'll probably be slower than the current system. 

There's no easy solution though. If we throw judges at this it takes them away from other areas of the system. 

It's a mess. 

 

 

Not sure what you mean by this. They will have legal representation. The legal representation will be aware of a deadline for appeal which is why now they are able to appeal at the very last minute in order to delay the flight. If they are given notice that they have to appeal for the sake of argument let's say seven days before deportation then there is enough time to assess the validity of the appeal and reject it so they are cleared to be deported as planned.

[hypochondriac]

In fact looking at this case he has 14 days now to get the necessary evidence together. If the deadline for appeal had been 14 days ago then he would have had the time necessary to gather the evidence and he would be being deported now. As soon as you come here illegally.You have a limited time to provide evidence that you've been trafficked or you are gone.

[egg]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Not sure what you mean by this. They will have legal representation. The legal representation will be aware of a deadline for appeal which is why now they are able to appeal at the very last minute in order to delay the flight. If they are given notice that they have to appeal for the sake of argument let's say seven days before deportation then there is enough time to assess the validity of the appeal and reject it so they are cleared to be deported as planned.

You said:

"If we tell them they are getting deported in a week then they have to put an appeal in with enough time to process and reject it and then get sent off p bthe flight as planned".

We can't give them a week to have an appeal dealt with if the appeal can't be dealt with in that timescale. That's a process beyond their control. They can only appeal. The rest is down to the system. 

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

You said:

"If we tell them they are getting deported in a week then they have to put an appeal in with enough time to process and reject it and then get sent off p bthe flight as planned".

We can't give them a week to have an appeal dealt with if the appeal can't be dealt with in that timescale. That's a process beyond their control. They can only appeal. The rest is down to the system. 

A week is a hypothetical example. The deadline for an appeal needs to be early enough that the appeal can be done and dusted before the flight is due to take off whether that's a week, three weeks or whatever. What we can't have is last minute appeals designed to delay things. One appeal with enough tine to process you and reject it and then you're in the flight with no further delays. If we'd said to this bloke three weeks ago that you have until next week to appeal your deportation and then two weeks to prove your case or you're leaving then that would have been preferable.

Edited Tuesday at 20:27 by hypochondriac

[skintsaint]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

A week is a hypothetical example. The deadline for an appeal needs to be early enough that the appeal can be done and dusted before the flight is due to take off whether that's a week, three weeks or whatever. What we can't have is last minute appeals designed to delay things. One appeal with enough tine to process you and reject it and then you're in the flight with no further delays. If we'd said to this bloke three weeks ago that you have until next week to appeal your deportation and then two weeks to prove your case or you're leaving then that would have been preferable.

That would be too sensible.

[egg]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

A week is a hypothetical example. The deadline for an appeal needs to be early enough that the appeal can be done and dusted before the flight is due to take off whether that's a week, three weeks or whatever. What we can't have is last minute appeals designed to delay things. One appeal with enough tine to process you and reject it and then you're in the flight with no further delays.

I agree that there should be a finite deadline for appeals to be filed, but the appellant can only file the appeal. The rest is down to the system, and then the criteria to be applied. 

 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, egg said:

I agree that there should be a finite deadline for appeals to be filed, but the appellant can only file the appeal. The rest is down to the system, and then the criteria to be applied. 

 

And you give the appellant a deadline for filing the appeal with enough time for the system to look at it and reject it with no more appeals necessary. That's a much better approach than we have now.

[egg]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

And you give the appellant a deadline for filing the appeal with enough time for the system to look at it and reject it with no more appeals necessary. That's a much better approach than we have now.

Although we have deadlines already...from the refusal to first tier tribunal, then to the upper tribunal, then judicial review. I think what's happened in the case reported above, is that the modern slavery point was made belatedly meaning an injunction preventing deportation. I'm with you completely that all grounds of application/appeal should be made within the laid down process, not new ones lobbed in after you've lost. 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Although we have deadlines already...from the refusal to first tier tribunal, then to the upper tribunal, then judicial review. I think what's happened in the case reported above, is that the modern slavery point was made belatedly meaning an injunction preventing deportation. I'm with you completely that all grounds of application/appeal should be made within the laid down process, not new ones lobbed in after you've lost. 

Right well if thays the case then I don't believe we should allow belated modern slavery appeals. If you miss the clearly communicated deadline then that's on you.

[whelk]

Won’t see the BBC covering this positive story for the country

https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2025/09/16/microsoft-30-billion-uk-ai-future/

[rallyboy]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Won’t see the BBC covering this positive story for the country

https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2025/09/16/microsoft-30-billion-uk-ai-future/

It's already on the BBC....😊

[whelk]

1 minute ago, rallyboy said:

It's already on the BBC....😊

They took my complaint seriously 

[AlexLaw76]

A nice story in the paper about a Bangladeshi man, living in supported accommodation for free with his wife as he has depression, has brought his 2nd wife over and 9 kids - all paid for by you and me

he is fighting eviction (not deportation) as the tenancy agreement was never translated for him. 
 

got to love the UK sometimes

[Farmer Saint]

51 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

A nice story in the paper about a Bangladeshi man, living in supported accommodation for free with his wife as he has depression, has brought his 2nd wife over and 9 kids - all paid for by you and me

he is fighting eviction (not deportation) as the tenancy agreement was never translated for him. 
 

got to love the UK sometimes

What paper is that? Be useful to have a link.

Edited yesterday at 08:28 by Farmer Saint

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What paper is that? Be useful to have a link.

This one, I assume.... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15104797/Migrant-disability-benefits-housed-retirement-home-human-rights.html

 

 

Edited yesterday at 08:37 by trousers

[Weston Super Saint]

If he genuinely has two wives, shouldn't he be arrested for bigamy, which I believe is a crime...

[skintsaint]

Didn't know I could claim for sleep apnea? 

[Farmer Saint]

37 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

If he genuinely has two wives, shouldn't he be arrested for bigamy, which I believe is a crime...

He doesn't, he got divorced. He has also lived in the UK since 1997 and apparently has a UK passport.

The only issue here is that he lives in an over 55's property and shouldn't be living there with his newer wife and kids. He should have learnt to read English better so he could understand the tenancy agreement, or maybe he can and he's trying it on. Seems like a bit of a non-story to me TBH.

[whelk]

Fraser Nelson, not exactly a left winger. speaks some sense and gives perspective regarding some of the bs trotted out. Fuck facts though it’s all about feeling 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DObsRoMjzGZ/

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

He doesn't, he got divorced. He has also lived in the UK since 1997 and apparently has a UK passport.

The only issue here is that he lives in an over 55's property and shouldn't be living there with his newer wife and kids. He should have learnt to read English better so he could understand the tenancy agreement, or maybe he can and he's trying it on. Seems like a bit of a non-story to me TBH.

Fair enough. Just daily mail clickbait then (I couldn't be arsed to read it!).

[Farmer Saint]

43 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Fair enough. Just daily mail clickbait then (I couldn't be arsed to read it!).

I only did because I suspected it was going to be clickbait...

[mickn]

I'm sure inserting the word 'Bangladeshi' had nothing to do with them printing the story.

[Sir Ralph]

Credit where credit is due. In the interest of fairness and balance there is the odd thing they are doing right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7016ljre03o

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Credit where credit is due. In the interest of fairness and balance there is the odd thing they are doing right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7016ljre03o

Is this actually something decent - I hope so -or is it just part of the PR that comes with state visits ?

[whelk]

22 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Is this actually something decent - I hope so -or is it just part of the PR that comes with state visits ?

Luckily these tech giants didn’t speak to Ralph’s mates keen to talk our country down

[Sir Ralph]

3 hours ago, whelk said:

Luckily these tech giants didn’t speak to Ralph’s mates keen to talk our country down

I’m trying to be balanced….try it sometime as I know it’s alien to you. When we call out bad policies, that’s not talking the country down, it’s calling out crap policies! 

Edited yesterday at 22:01 by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

8 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

I’m trying to be balanced….try it sometime as I know it’s alien to you. When we call out bad policies, that’s not talking the country down, it’s calling out crap policies! 

Lighten up big boy

[Sir Ralph]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Lighten up big boy

Your comment wasn’t particularly funny. Try to be more balanced though

Edited 14 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

19 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Your comment wasn’t particularly funny. Try to be more balanced though

The only truly 'balanced' poster on here is Trousers, on his fence.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

Your comment wasn’t particularly funny. Try to be more balanced though

ChatGPT has called me out as particularly funny

[Farmer Saint]

3 hours ago, whelk said:

Lighten up big boy

 

12 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

I’m trying to be balanced….try it sometime as I know it’s alien to you. When we call out bad policies, that’s not talking the country down, it’s calling out crap policies! 

Ralph showing off his balance...

 

[Farmer Saint]

Fucking Starmer, noshing off Trump to increase investment in the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2nllgl3q7o

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[tdmickey3]

36 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Fucking Starmer, noshing off Trump to increase investment in the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2nllgl3q7o

 

Yeah, what a joke😉

[badgerx16]

The first "one out" has been flown to France.

[Saint86]

On 17/09/2025 at 09:32, trousers said:

This one, I assume.... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15104797/Migrant-disability-benefits-housed-retirement-home-human-rights.html

 

 

You can get benefits for Sleep Apnea now? Up to 10million people in the UK suffer from that... That should add a few more million to the already23.8M claiming benefits, ditto take a few more off the working population of 34Million. Parity isn't far away now, we can maybe even do it this governmental term!!!

Edited 8 hours ago by Saint86

[Saint86]

3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

The first "one out" has been flown to France.

1 out, 180k in. We're on our way... 

Edited 8 hours ago by Saint86

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

1 out, 180k in. We're on our way... 

No, it won't be 180k will it, because many would have had their cases heard and either given asylum and become a refugee, or removed once their asylum claims has been denied.

Edited 7 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[hypochondriac]

If we have a load of illegal migrants from somewhere like Pakistan who have failed in their appeals, why are we not demanding that the Pakistani government take them all back immediately ? We have significant leverage over many countries.

[AlexLaw76]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If we have a load of illegal migrants from somewhere like Pakistan who have failed in their appeals, why are we not demanding that the Pakistani government take them all back immediately ? We have significant leverage over many countries.

They might have sleep apnea and need to stay here on benefits