Solving the Immigration Problem

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

I have, several times.

Great. This suggests that the usual characters that regularly agree with you are probably on the same political spectrum. We are getting somewhere…

Edited Friday at 23:51 by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

5 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

It does impact us. Pretty much every illegal migrant in the uk has come through Europe so seems a pretty legitimate point to me, if you’re concerned about illegal immigration

Only an idiot would not be concerned about illegal migration. Most of us are very concerned about legal migration too.

[Sheaf Saint]

7 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

Almost no one has a “pre-existing bias against immigrants”. 

That's just not true...

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/uk-public-opinion-toward-immigration-overall-attitudes-and-level-of-concern/

[Farmer Saint]

6 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

It does impact us. Pretty much every illegal migrant in the uk has come through Europe so seems a pretty legitimate point to me, if you’re concerned about illegal immigration

If only we were still part of the EU, and could use the Dublin Agreement to send them back.

This is what has caused the boats. It's quite ironic as those that voted for less migration got even worse migration.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

6 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Great. This suggests that the usual characters that regularly agree with you are probably on the same political spectrum. We are getting somewhere…

Right.

There you go again. Assuming who or what other posters are thinking or are like.

 

[Farmer Saint]

6 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Great. This suggests that the usual characters that regularly agree with you are probably on the same political spectrum. We are getting somewhere…

I would say most of us are liberals - the issue is that you are confusing liberal policies with socialist policies.

[moonraker]

9 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I would say most of us are liberals - the issue is that you are confusing liberal policies with socialist policies.

No he is just confused about everything.

[egg]

10 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I would say most of us are liberals - the issue is that you are confusing liberal policies with socialist policies.

Yep. He and Osvoldoramo thinks UK liberalism, where there's a broad political spectrum, is the same as US liberalism where there's a binary left and right.

His/their fascination with pigeon holing people as left or right is just a bit weird. I think it's to make "debate" easier for them - the actual issues and questions can be ignored, and issues merely hit with a "you lefties" retort. 

All a bit daft and silly. 

[Weston Super Saint]

12 hours ago, Turkish said:

 on the flip side it’s a lot of doctors and engineers so it’ll be a highly educated society which can only strengthen there culture 

But do we really want them?  They've shown their 'work ethic' ditching work at the drop of a hat to go visit foreign lands.  Imagine if they just up and left during a doctor's consultation?

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. He and Osvoldoramo thinks UK liberalism, where there's a broad political spectrum, is the same as US liberalism where there's a binary left and right.

His/their fascination with pigeon holing people as left or right is just a bit weird. I think it's to make "debate" easier for them - the actual issues and questions can be ignored, and issues merely hit with a "you lefties" retort. 

All a bit daft and silly. 

It is because in reality we take certain political nuances from most "sides".

It seems to be their go to when they can't answer questions or justify their posts. 

I do find Sir Ralph funny though, he started off by saying he was a moderate Conservative, trying to create debates by using AI to argue for him, yet over the past year has turned into an absolute loony. The constant lying doesn't help him though.

[whelk]

I mean what sort of dopey cunt would be influenced by such hyperbole? ‘Demand Burnham responds’ -lol so desperate to scare the weak

[whelk]

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

I mean what sort of dopey cunt would be influenced by such hyperbole? ‘Demand Burnham responds’ -lol so desperate to scare the weak

The fact that these people left a north African country to go to..........north Africa seems to have been missed by some people.

[badgerx16]

7 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Great. This suggests that the usual characters that regularly agree with you are probably on the same political spectrum. We are getting somewhere…

Did you notice I agreed with one of Osvaldorama's posts on the Burnham thread ?

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

The fact that these people left a north African country to go to..........north Africa seems to have been missed by some people.

I heard the Spanish government have housed them all and given them free cinema tickets and mobile phones. Couldn’t make it up!

[badgerx16]

12 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

 

12 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Assuming that's a verified image?

Many news reports this morning are carrying this.........

"Another resident interviewed by Euronews also expressed concern that tensions could escalate, saying people increasingly feared violence. "This morning I was shocked to see people from here, from the neighbourhood, with lots of knives, trying to take justice into their own hands," she said. "I just saw one boy with a katana running after a Moroccan boy, without really knowing what was going on.""

So there seems to be a good chance that that person is a local, not a migrant.

 

Edited yesterday at 07:16 by badgerx16

[egg]

6 minutes ago, whelk said:

I heard the Spanish government have housed them all and given them free cinema tickets and mobile phones. Couldn’t make it up!

That's nice. If I go to Morocco, have a little swim and go to Ceuta, does that make it easier for me to live in Spain permanently post Brexit? 

[Gloucester Saint]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

That's nice. If I go to Morocco, have a little swim and go to Ceuta, does that make it easier for me to live in Spain permanently post Brexit? 

You’d support a great international football team as well.

Downside - you’d become a frittata. 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

You’d support a great international football team as well.

Downside - you’d become a frittata. 

Good point! 

Spanish Omelette surely. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

 

Many news reports this morning are carrying this.........

"Another resident interviewed by Euronews also expressed concern that tensions could escalate, saying people increasingly feared violence. "This morning I was shocked to see people from here, from the neighbourhood, with lots of knives, trying to take justice into their own hands," she said. "I just saw one boy with a katana running after a Moroccan boy, without really knowing what was going on.""

So there seems to be a good chance that that person is a local, not a migrant.

 

I was just ready to join them storming Europe... in Africa. But not If I'm not getting a free katana and a Teenage Ninja Mutant Turtle costume.

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

It is because in reality we take certain political nuances from most "sides".

It seems to be their go to when they can't answer questions or justify their posts. 

I do find Sir Ralph funny though, he started off by saying he was a moderate Conservative, trying to create debates by using AI to argue for him, yet over the past year has turned into an absolute loony. The constant lying doesn't help him though.

You don’t take political nuances from other sides at all. You are consistently on the side of increasing taxes and government intervention in society. That is somebody who is who has views to the left. Stop claiming you are a balanced “centrist”. Also in your post you have said I dismiss your posts by saying you are left and then done the same about me!

In answer to your question about the Dublin agreement I don’t think it was a very successful process (apparently only 260 people were returned under it). My question is what has the eu  done as a bloc to try to influence international law on this matter? This is a serious issue for eu members so I would have expected a lot of activity and trying to apply influence on this front….

Edited yesterday at 10:18 by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

.

Edited yesterday at 10:20 by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Sir Ralph said:

You don’t take political nuances from other sides at all. You are consistently on the side of increasing taxes and government intervention in society. That is somebody who is who has views to the left. It’s not an issue but stop claiming you aren’t a balanced “centrist”

I think taxes should be lowered for low and medium earners you gimp. Stop making stuff up.

[Farmer Saint]

51 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

In answer to your question about the Dublin agreement I don’t think it was a very successful process (apparently only 260 people were returned under it). My question is what has the eu  done as a bloc to try to influence international law on this matter? This is a serious issue for eu members so I would have expected a lot of activity and trying to apply influence on this front….

The Dublin agreement was a deterrent. The reason not many people went back under it was because people didn't come over illegally then, because of the deterrent. Look at the numbers up to 2018.

Edited yesterday at 10:52 by Farmer Saint

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

The Dublin agreement was a deterrent. The reason not many people went back under it was because people didn't come over illegally then, because of the deterrent. Look at the numbers up to 2018.

My question is what has the eu  done as a bloc to try to influence international law on this matter? 
 

happy to accept that the Dublin mechanism was one factor in helping to minimise migration. 

Edited 23 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

My question is what has the eu  done as a bloc to try to influence international law on this matter? 

Absolutely no idea. I'm not party to those discussions.

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

 

So there seems to be a good chance that that person is a local, not a migrant.

 

Although that 'local' could previously have been a 'migrant'. So it could be migrant on migrant action.

The mind boggles.

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Absolutely no idea. I'm not party to those discussions.

So nothing we are aware of. My point being the EU as an organisation should be doing more to disincentivise illegal immgration through changes to the international legal framework. It seems that the EU isn’t taking this issue as seriously as it should and this is a failure on its part

Edited 19 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

So nothing we are aware of. My point being the EU as an organisation should be doing more to disincentivise illegal immgration through changes to the international legal framework. It seems that the EU isn’t taking this issue as seriously as it should and this is a failure on its part

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20260611IPR45214/new-eu-system-for-return-of-illegally-staying-third-country-nationals

[Farmer Saint]

10 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

So nothing we are aware of. My point being the EU as an organisation should be doing more to disincentivise illegal immgration through changes to the international legal framework. It seems that the EU isn’t taking this issue as seriously as it should and this is a failure on its part

I don't think any of us have any knowledge or whether they do or don't, as unless laws are put through (and International Law's are notoriously difficult to change) we wouldn't hear about it.

You seem to have a very odd understanding of how the world works - a bit like a child.

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

I don't think any of us have any knowledge or whether they do or don't, as unless laws are put through (and International Law's are notoriously difficult to change) we wouldn't hear about it.

You seem to have a very odd understanding of how the world works - a bit like a child.

Exactly but as there haven’t been any changes we have heard of being passed in terms of changes to legal frameworks we can assume that it hasn’t been successful in changing the legal framework, even if it was trying.

Thats why it’s reasonable to criticise the EU for not having used it’s influence to improve agreement / change legislation on returns rather than just changing its own internal rules (which are uncertain still as they rely on third countries cooperating, which they may not do).

Get personal - it doesn’t bother me - I have my own view of you but it’s not productive sharing it and it doesn’t make me feel “big”.

Edited 19 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

7 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Exactly but as there haven’t been any changes we have heard of being passed in terms of changes to legal frameworks we can assume that it hasn’t been successful in changing the legal framework, even if it was trying.

Thats why it’s reasonable to criticise the EU for not having used it’s considerable influence to improve wider cooperation on returns rather than just changing its own internal rules.

Get personal - it doesn’t bother me - I have my own view of you but it’s not productive sharing it and it doesn’t make me feel “big”.

You have in the past, so not sure why you're pulling the high and mighty card now. I don't think I'm getting personal anyway.

It's a bit odd your criticising the EU for not being able to change International Law, like it is that easy, especially when talking about what tends to be humanitarian crises. In addition to this because you haven't heard about it you automatically think they haven't tried hard enough - another very strange assumption. 

What kind of treaties are you proposing the EU put forward?

Edited 19 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Osvaldorama]

14 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

 

Many news reports this morning are carrying this.........

"Another resident interviewed by Euronews also expressed concern that tensions could escalate, saying people increasingly feared violence. "This morning I was shocked to see people from here, from the neighbourhood, with lots of knives, trying to take justice into their own hands," she said. "I just saw one boy with a katana running after a Moroccan boy, without really knowing what was going on.""

So there seems to be a good chance that that person is a local, not a migrant.

 

LOL

 

Genuinely can’t understand why people with your political persuasion are so keen to defend invaders. 
 

Whether it be Spain or the UK, the left will jump through hoops to defend violent incursions. 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

LOL

 

Genuinely can’t understand why people with your political persuasion are so keen to defend invaders. 
 

Whether it be Spain or the UK, the left will jump through hoops to defend violent incursions. 

Yet again you show hiw much of a narrow minded twat you are.

I am not  and do not in any way, trying to 'defend violent incursions'. I merely try to verify pictures and stories, particularly from the cess pit that X and other SM platforms have become, and to not be as easily provoked or gulled into rash judgements by what appears to be clickbait for the easily manipulated.

[Sir Ralph]

https://www.reuters.com/world/italy-suspends-eu-schengen-free-travel-pact-with-spain-over-ceuta-crisis-2026-07-31/
 

well done Italy

[Saint_clark]

21 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

The fact that these people left a north African country to go to..........north Africa seems to have been missed by some people.

That article is a piece of trash, but this is also a pretty poor take. The people who "broke into" Ceuta were misled and/or outright told they could easily get to mainland Europe. It shows how many would try in a very short space of time if they thought it was possible, and thats just from the closest African country with no conflict or major oppression. Once again, tens of thousands of men who are economic migrants trying to exploit what they see as weakness from Europe to allow them to live a "better life". 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

16 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

That article is a piece of trash, but this is also a pretty poor take. The people who "broke into" Ceuta were misled and/or outright told they could easily get to mainland Europe. It shows how many would try in a very short space of time if they thought it was possible, and thats just from the closest African country with no conflict or major oppression. Once again, tens of thousands of men who are economic migrants trying to exploit what they see as weakness from Europe to allow them to live a "better life". 

A beeb clip said that recently, a Spanish court had ruled that anyone who swan across the border could not be immediately returned. 

Dozens have died with Spain pointing a finger at Morocco for not doing enough at the border. Thousands still in the area, and no doubt other countries looking at the implications of that court decision.

The number who already had jobs among the migrants did stand out in the clips. Some of the returned either having quite or returning to them. One man had travelled from Sudan citing war for his reason of being there.

[Farmer Saint]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62vl925dqdo

Interesting - as some of us here have said, showing the dangers of Social Media, especially on the uneducated.

[Farmer Saint]

4 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/italy-suspends-eu-schengen-free-travel-pact-with-spain-over-ceuta-crisis-2026-07-31/
 

well done Italy

Why - how's that helping? Also, are you going to answer my question from yesterday? I answered yours.

Edited 5 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Baird of the land]

1 hour ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

A beeb clip said that recently, a Spanish court had ruled that anyone who swan across the border could not be immediately returned. 

Dozens have died with Spain pointing a finger at Morocco for not doing enough at the border. Thousands still in the area, and no doubt other countries looking at the implications of that court decision.

The number who already had jobs among the migrants did stand out in the clips. Some of the returned either having quite or returning to them. One man had travelled from Sudan citing war for his reason of being there.

I’m curious have the Spanish just quietly ignored the judge’s ruling and for obvious political necessity done their best to pressure as migrants to leave as they could.

[egg]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

That article is a piece of trash, but this is also a pretty poor take. The people who "broke into" Ceuta were misled and/or outright told they could easily get to mainland Europe. It shows how many would try in a very short space of time if they thought it was possible, and thats just from the closest African country with no conflict or major oppression. Once again, tens of thousands of men who are economic migrants trying to exploit what they see as weakness from Europe to allow them to live a "better life". 

There's something in that, although there's a school of thought that wider geo politics were at play due to US and Israeli beef with Spain re lack of support over Iran and recognising a Palestinian state. 

It goes something like disaffected youth all but encouraged to cross the border, blind eyes turned on Moroccan side, uproar and unrest leading to Spain feeling heat, a decison to switch US bases from Spain to Morocco, US troops having a presence/control along the straight of Gibraltar, and Moroccan troops possibly peacekeeping in Gaza. 

Not sure what to make of it, but the US pulling out of Spain and setting up base in Morocco seems plausible, wheras 60k young lads thinking they'd have a day out then be picked up and welcomed in Madrid with a Cruzcampo never felt likely. 

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

There's something in that, although there's a school of thought that wider geo politics were at play due to US and Israeli beef with Spain re lack of support over Iran and recognising a Palestinian state. 

It goes something like disaffected youth all but encouraged to cross the border, blind eyes turned on Moroccan side, uproar and unrest leading to Spain feeling heat, a decison to switch US bases from Spain to Morocco, US troops having a presence/control along the straight of Gibraltar, and Moroccan troops possibly peacekeeping in Gaza. 

Not sure what to make of it, but the US pulling out of Spain and setting up base in Morocco seems plausible, wheras 60k young lads thinking they'd have a day out then be picked up and welcomed in Madrid with a Cruzcampo never felt likely. 

Don't get me wrong this is definitely organised by someone somewhere. I don't believe for a second that 60,000 people decided to hop the border on the same day because they saw a video on instagram saying Spain was open.

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

I’m curious have the Spanish just quietly ignored the judge’s ruling and for obvious political necessity done their best to pressure as migrants to leave as they could.

I've read mixed reports on the ruling. On one hand I've read that only people intercepted at sea have amnesty. If that's right, anyone hitting dry land could be turned back. That was my initial understanding.

I've also read that only people who'd scaled or penetrated a border fence or similar could be turned back.

I've not delved to clarify but the former seems more likely, and that any confusion has come from the media spinning an agenda. 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

A beeb clip said that recently, a Spanish court had ruled that anyone who swan across the border could not be immediately returned. 

Is that because they would then belong to the King?

[Farmer Saint]

51 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Is that because they would then belong to the King?

Watch out for a spate of broken arms.

Edited 2 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[iansums]

17 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

I don't think I'm getting personal anyway.

“I think taxes should be lowered for low and medium earners you gimp”

A little bit personal I reckon.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

3 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

I’m curious have the Spanish just quietly ignored the judge’s ruling and for obvious political necessity done their best to pressure as migrants to leave as they could.

I've only seen those returning say they found everything to be closed, and many returning through hunger. No hint of support for them. That might reflect the impromptu creation of the surge, and what limited resources they could bring. One person mentioned the cost of buying anything. There's a lot still there. So, I wonder how they are eating. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Is that because they would then belong to the King?

Had they been swans, then we'd have had fewer drownings which would have been a good thing.