The Reform Thread

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, egg said:

The "I may as well try the new lot" attitude to choosing a government is mental. If your local car wash has gone downhill, sure, give the new guys down the road a go. But taking that approach to your government, who's decisions touch every aspect of your life for 5 years, plus a legacy period beyond, is bewildering. 

We're fucked though arent we. They're all absolute shit. Starmer is a proper wet lettuce, the rest of his cronies are just as bad, Tories less said about them the better. So what are the options? Country is absolutely fucked and there is no one you can believe in to sort it out, so no wonder people are taking the "might as well give them a go" they're probably thinking they cant be as bad, well they can, but then again do what you've always done you'll get what you always got.

[Lord Duckhunter]

23 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

GB News our equivalent of Fox News 

So fucking what. It’s not like  you’ll get chucked into  jail for not paying for it, or have to pay  for  it to watch another channel.,If you don’t like it, don’t fucking watch it…

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So fucking what. It’s not like  you’ll get chucked into  jail for not paying for it, or have to pay  for  it to watch another channel.,If you don’t like it, don’t fucking watch it…

C'mon. If he went on to apply that to Robinson, Hopkins, Farage and Trump, he'd have so much time on his hands he'd have go out, blinking and startled, into the sunlight of the real world. Real brunches with real people.

Mind you, there's always LBC and the Guardian website. Back inside to safety! 🙂

[sadoldgit]

Having just put up council tax by 3.99% the KCC have awarded themselves a pay rise of 3.8%. Hmmm…

[egg]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

We're fucked though arent we. They're all absolute shit. Starmer is a proper wet lettuce, the rest of his cronies are just as bad, Tories less said about them the better. So what are the options? Country is absolutely fucked and there is no one you can believe in to sort it out, so no wonder people are taking the "might as well give them a go" they're probably thinking they cant be as bad, well they can, but then again do what you've always done you'll get what you always got.

It's always possible to be more fucked, and sometimes it's the lesser of evils. 

A reform government would be diabolical on so many levels imo. 

I describe myself as politically homeless as none of the parties talk my language at the moment, but that'd never make me go for the "fuck it, let's try them" option. 

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

We're fucked though arent we. They're all absolute shit. Starmer is a proper wet lettuce, the rest of his cronies are just as bad, Tories less said about them the better. So what are the options? Country is absolutely fucked and there is no one you can believe in to sort it out, so no wonder people are taking the "might as well give them a go" they're probably thinking they cant be as bad, well they can, but then again do what you've always done you'll get what you always got.

Yes, my friends are very much apathetic on where we are. 

A lot of people are just run down from all the shit over the last 20 years I guess. From the credit crunch, to austerity, Ukraine, populism and so on.

I dont agree with the lets give someone else a try, my feeling is that they'd be a lot worse from what I've seen and heard.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Having just put up council tax by 3.99% the KCC have awarded themselves a pay rise of 3.8%. Hmmm…

Lol.  How can you moan about a 3.99% council tax raise whilst other counties (mine especially!) are going up 8.99%!  

[The Kraken]

22 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Lol.  How can you moan about a 3.99% council tax raise whilst other counties (mine especially!) are going up 8.99%!  

Ouch.

Got my notification yesterday, So’ton going up by a tiny smidge under 5% (police and fire up by slightly more).

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Lol.  How can you moan about a 3.99% council tax raise whilst other counties (mine especially!) are going up 8.99%!  

Could be worse, neighbouring Worcestershire (Reform) 9% increase https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y68r40yzgo

Not easy, this governing lark

Edited yesterday at 18:28 by Gloucester Saint

[Holmes_and_Watson]

57 minutes ago, egg said:

It's always possible to be more fucked, and sometimes it's the lesser of evils. 

A reform government would be diabolical on so many levels imo. 

I describe myself as politically homeless as none of the parties talk my language at the moment, but that'd never make me go for the "fuck it, let's try them" option. 

What do you mean politically homeless? What's that direct debit I've been paying to the "Get egg a new shell fund" about? 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, egg said:

It's always possible to be more fucked, and sometimes it's the lesser of evils. 

A reform government would be diabolical on so many levels imo. 

I describe myself as politically homeless as none of the parties talk my language at the moment, but that'd never make me go for the "fuck it, let's try them" option. 

I’m the same as you. I don’t believe in any of them and none of them resonate with me. 
 

im not advocating a Reform government by any means but my point is I can see why some people would because what we’ve tried for years has been absolutely shambolic. 

[egg]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

I’m the same as you. I don’t believe in any of them and none of them resonate with me. 
 

im not advocating a Reform government by any means but my point is I can see why some people would because what we’ve tried for years has been absolutely shambolic. 

I get that. As I posted earlier, by a process of elimination I can see how people would arrive at Green or Reform, but by a process of logical thinking, I don't see how anyone could think that they'd be anything other than a disaster in government. 

[whelk]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I’m the same as you. I don’t believe in any of them and none of them resonate with me. 
 

im not advocating a Reform government by any means but my point is I can see why some people would because what we’ve tried for years has been absolutely shambolic. 

They are filled with the same people though. Comical how anyone thinks they will improve anyone’s lives - the worst of the Tories. They just play the non-pc card and some seem t think they are different. Lunacy and if they get in it will get worse - see Brexit

[Gloucester Saint]

And they are no different in terms of corruption and seediness - arguably far worse. Today’s example https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/5455823/dundee-reform-suspended/

Another reason why their poll ratings are slipping back below 25% and in rapidly reverse gear. Plus recruiting the very worst of the previous government (Sewerella). 80 year Kate Hoey isn’t exactly a catch either.

Edited yesterday at 18:31 by Gloucester Saint

[Turkish]

34 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

And they are no different in terms of corruption and seediness - arguably far worse. Today’s example https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/5455823/dundee-reform-suspended/

Another reason why their poll ratings are slipping back below 25% and in rapidly reverse gear. Plus recruiting the very worst of the previous government (Sewerella). 80 year Kate Hoey isn’t exactly a catch either.

All their snouts are in the trough. I don’t really have an issue with them receiving gifts but the things like dodgy expenses, tax dodges etc when normal people are getting absolutely hammered by the tax man is criminal 

[Gloucester Saint]

18 minutes ago, Turkish said:

All their snouts are in the trough. I don’t really have an issue with them receiving gifts but the things like dodgy expenses, tax dodges etc when normal people are getting absolutely hammered by the tax man is criminal 

You’d think the Parliamentary expenses scandal in 2009 would have been a turning point. But no, it wasn’t. Politicians should be subject to the same rules Joe Public are.

It’s the sheer volume of tax evasion as well from the very wealthy, HMRC’s recovery rate is appalling, or it was last time I looked. As you say, it’s very unfair for most of us who do the right things and pay our way.
American big tech companies are just as bad, filleting entry level jobs for our kids whilst Trump ensures they don’t have to pay levies for retraining and regional development as they rake it in. 

That said, the public turn hostile when politicians are honest eg if you vote for a Brexit, it’s a hard Brexit and you’ll pay more tax to maintain the public services you expect. Nigel Lawson had a classic quote - ‘the public want North American taxation levels and Western European public services’ with the clear implication that this required rather a juggling act and there was electorate immaturity.

He was right at the time, and since 2020, when you cut 6% off your GDP it makes it harder still. Don’t recall Vote Leave mentioning that.

Edited 23 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[aintforever]

16 hours ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

I just dont get the vitriol towards Labour. Yes, they've messed up a few things but has it been to the extent of the last government? And is Reform really the answer. 

Whoever won the last election would have got a kicking, it’s so predictable. They all promised the Earth to try and win yet the state of the finances obviously meant tough decisions had to be made.

We were told countless times that we would be paying for Brexit and the Pandemic for years to come and here we are. Starmer’s flip flopping hasn’t been a great look and I don’t agree with some of his decisions (mainly the NI rise), but the shit state we’re in is mostly down to things out of his control. The general public are way too thick to grasp that though.

Edited 20 hours ago by aintforever

[Gloucester Saint]

7 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I've been surprised at just how poorly they've been received.

I'm no fan. It was disappointing seeing them continuing their freebies trough. No surprise when a union got a deal, and immediately came straight out saying that was just for starters. Starmer, having made a career on not having a stance except on whatever McSweeney felt would get them into power has been caught out with everything from Lord Ali access to judgement and weaseling on Mandelson (and others).

Do his eyes swivel while trying hypnotise your boobs, like Polanski?

Is he a fellow traveller, and security threat, like Corbyn?

Is he a habitual liar, grifter and scumbag like Johnson?

Is he spineless while showing an incompetent level of professional curiosity and action, like Davey?

Is he utterly anonymous, while up against a trainwreck of indoctrinated, gravy train grifting idiots, like Sarwar?

Is he a walking ego of self interest, playing to the worst of instincts like Farage, with his dreadful prior comments on race?

Is he part of active cover ups and fraud investigation into his predecessors, like Swinney (not using a party mobile home battle bus in the upcoming elections, as it got seized by police)?

Has he tried to second guess all the markets and world financial structures, leading to disaster, like Truss (now wandering around with a tin foil hat on)?

Boots on the ground based on made up intelligence, like Blair?

Flogged off half our gold reserves, like Brown?

None of the above. He's dragged his party back to an electable center. It's a broad church, and those tensions are the things that will undo him, after May (useless on immigration as Home secretary, incidentally) elections  (or when Rayner's tax dodge gets sorted).

I disagree with a lot of where he stands (u-turns pending). But, as a person, compared to that lot?

 

Agree with much if not all of that.

As far as the Mail and Rebekah Brooks/Rupert Murdoch are concerned though, he did prosecute phone hacking and corrupt illegal payment from police to their journalists, the staggering extent to which is STILL being fully uncovered. 

Not a coincidence that by far the worst bile comes from the likes of the Mail and Talk TV.

Not a Starmer fan either, but that is the honest truth of it.

Edited 23 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[The Kraken]

“The general public are way to thick to grasp that though.”

[Holmes_and_Watson]

45 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Agree with much if not all of that.

As far as the Mail and Rebekah Brooks/Rupert Murdoch are concerned though, he did prosecute phone hacking and corrupt illegal payment from police to their journalists, the staggering extent to which is STILL being fully uncovered. 

Not a coincidence that by far the worst bile comes from the likes of the Mail and Talk TV.

Not a Starmer fan either, but that is the honest truth of it.

A pioneer of not only the paperless office, but the e-free office too. Albeit due to shredding, removing and dumping all paper (even some the police had already found) and wiping (repeatedly) all e-mails and hiding and destroying hard drives. 

Except for the stuff in her underfloor safe and a couple of encrypted devices that, may or may not be hers.

[Gloucester Saint]

Not the worst drama series, I suppose…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd7094zj79qo

Edited 20 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[The Kraken]

The aintforever edited version,  ‘The general public are way to thick too grasp that though.’

 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by The Kraken

[rallyboy]

No one is happy with the leadership of our country right now but for those considering a risky punt because it can't get worse, just remember Liz Truss -  and Brexit.

The people rolled the dice and voted to try something different in 2016, a decision that will damage our economy for a generation and has made us an international laughing stock.

Farage failed to be an MEP of any consequence, he rarely attended, his Brexit campaign was exposed as a scam, and he's now an absent MP.

To think he'll suddenly improve as a PM is optimistic in the extreme.

[aintforever]

35 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

The aintforever edited version,  ‘The general public are way to thick too grasp that though.’

 

 

Fuck me, what are you the typo police!

[The Kraken]

9 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Fuck me, what are you the typo police!

I’m just suggesting….if you’re going to call people thick, maybe try and make sure you don’t look a bit dimwitted yourself whilst doing it. Twice.

Whatever, it was a funny so 👍

Edited 19 hours ago by The Kraken

[aintforever]

4 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I’m just suggesting….if you’re going to call people thick, maybe try and make sure you don’t look a bit dimwitted yourself whilst doing it. Twice.

What a hero. 👏 

[tdmickey3]

10 hours ago, rallyboy said:

No one is happy with the leadership of our country right now but for those considering a risky punt because it can't get worse, just remember Liz Truss -  and Brexit.

The people rolled the dice and voted to try something different in 2016, a decision that will damage our economy for a generation and has made us an international laughing stock.

Farage failed to be an MEP of any consequence, he rarely attended, his Brexit campaign was exposed as a scam, and he's now an absent MP.

To think he'll suddenly improve as a PM is optimistic in the extreme.

He is the ideal man for the easily fooled and the dense, good chance he will get in because there are a fair few of them about

[sadoldgit]

14 hours ago, aintforever said:

Whoever won the last election would have got a kicking, it’s so predictable. They all promised the Earth to try and win yet the state of the finances obviously meant tough decisions had to be made.

We were told countless times that we would be paying for Brexit and the Pandemic for years to come and here we are. Starmer’s flip flopping hasn’t been a great look and I don’t agree with some of his decisions (mainly the NI rise), but the shit state we’re in is mostly down to things out of his control. The general public are way too thick to grasp that though.

It’s all about quick fixes and it is so easy for snake oil salesmen like Trump and Farage to become popular. Starmer said it would take two terms (10 years) to repair the damage done to the UK by 14 years of austerity, Brexit and Truss. A chunk of the public want to hear that it will change tomorrow and will vote for the people who tell them what they want to hear.

Not only did Starmer inherit a poisoned chalice, Trump has gone full Tonto and unleashed chaos on the economic structure of the World along with fragmenting the NATO alliance, sucking up to despots like Putin and Netanyahu.

Who would you rather have leading the country right now? A normal, decent, stable human being like Starmer or a nutter like Farage or Lowe?

What is just as sad as the rise of far right politics in this country is the lack of fight being shown by the LibDems at the moment. They should be hoovering up the disaffected Labour voters but they have been overtaken by both the far right parties and the Greens. Ed Davey is a very decent man but he doesn’t have the personality and drive for this fight. I see propaganda from Reform and similar parties all the time but rarely anything from the LibDems. They really need to get their act together if we aren’t going to end up like Trump’s America.

Starmer looks the part on the international stage and I think he has done as well as can be expected dealing with a madman in the White House. What is clear is that more needs to be done domestically and he needs to be braver, especially over our relationship with the EU. Good to hear more positive comments about closer ties.

If anyone thinks that the current situation is poor, you only have to look at the shit show that Reform are making of running local councils to see where we would end up under Farage.

[Lord Duckhunter]

11 hours ago, aintforever said:

What a hero. 👏 

You made yourself look a right cock….