I'd rather have Martin than Still.

[benjii]

12 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Weird thread, but then it’s SaintsWeb so I guess not.

The guy is managing with one arm tied behind his back at the moment. We’ve got an 18 year old as our only creative outlet, we are desperately short of creative options.

Stoke looked like a settled team that have been managed by a very good manager for 9 months. Thomas and Manheouf would walk into our team at the moment. Yet despite that, we still created enough chances to win today. 

The guy needs time with a settled squad and hopefully we will start to see some improvement in performances and patterns of play.

Mental.

He's got Fernandes and Armstrong. He's got Fraser, he's got Robinson. He could keep Edozie if he wanted.

Poor Saints with such awful options.

[benjii]

8 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

The revisionism is astounding, as is writing off a young manager, with a deficient squad, after just three games. Get a grip…

Go and tell the other managers in the Championship we've got a "deficient squad". They'd laugh you back to the dinlow farm.

[benjii]

Some ways our deficient Championship squad that is doomed to failure because it's so shit unless we sign more forwards could line up:

 

                        Baz

Capn/Mads THB Quarshie Well/Mann

              Charles   Fernandes        

Armstrong      Robinson        Fraser   

                   Downs/Stewart

 

                         Baz  

Capn/Mads THB Quarshie Well Man

Fraser   Charles Fernandes Robinson

              Stewart   Armstrong

 

                      Baz

        THB     Capn   Quarshie     

Mads   Charles  Downes Man/Fraser

                      Fernandes

          Stewart    Armstrong/Archer

 

So deficient! The man has no chance without some of Stoke or Coventry or Middlesbrough's players.

And that's without even mentioning Edwards, who seems to have been coached from being one of the best CBs in the league to a fucking disaster zone in the space of one pre-season.

Honestly, excuses about having the "wrong" players are fucking pathetic, especially as he is also being praised for being a pragmatist who isn't wedded to a system.

Absolutely laughable.

 

 

[AlexLaw76]

That is the bit I find odd, not being able to play 4231/433

Why?

I get he wants new wide players in, but for 2-3 games, it is not possible to play Fraser, Robinson and / or Armstrong as wide players… even against Northampton?

is it not possible  to do something else other than play 3 at the back and Armstrong as the lone striker?

the answer is clearly yes to the above, BTW

very poor show from Still given his own words

Edited August 24 by AlexLaw76

[ErwinK1961]

44 minutes ago, benjii said:

Mental.

He's got Fernandes and Armstrong. He's got Fraser, he's got Robinson. He could keep Edozie if he wanted.

Poor Saints with such awful options.

So where are all the creative options then? Fernandes is unlikely to be here in a weeks time and he isn’t a creative midfielder. 

Edozie wants to leave, hence why he’s not playing.

Armstrong, lol.

 

[Pamplemousse]

I'll wait until we lose 4 in a row including a 5-0 defeat before writing off Still and wanting Martin back.

Oh hang on, that actually did happen in the Championship under Martin. And we still went up...

He had a far better squad. We need a complete overhaul on the playing side. That's the issue.

Edited August 24 by Pamplemousse

[benjii]

Just now, ErwinK1961 said:

So where are all the creative options then? Fernandes is unlikely to be here in a weeks time and he isn’t a creative midfielder. 

Edozie wants to leave, hence why he’s not playing.

Armstrong, lol.

 

I listed 5 players that have a proven track record of goals and assists in the division or, where they don't, are players with massive potential. Smallbone was also excellent as an attacking midfielder last time we were in the division but seems to have been jettisoned (or is he injured?). 

I'm not surprised Edozie wants to leave seeing the shite we are serving up.

Honestly, do you think we couldn't have maximised our options more in these 4 matches?

And, on top of that, our defending has been utter garbage.

[ErwinK1961]

4 minutes ago, benjii said:

I listed 5 players that have a proven track record of goals and assists in the division or, where they don't, are players with massive potential. Smallbone was also excellent as an attacking midfielder last time we were in the division but seems to have been jettisoned (or is he injured?). 

I'm not surprised Edozie wants to leave seeing the shite we are serving up.

Honestly, do you think we couldn't have maximised our options more in these 4 matches?

And, on top of that, our defending has been utter garbage.

You listed 5 players, two of which aren’t likely to be here next week and one who is 18 years old playing his first full season in men’s football (and seems to like falling over all the time).

Fernandes was crap yesterday and it wasn’t happening for Robinson - what options did we have on the bench to change the game? 2 beanpole strikers who are utterly gash at the moment. Not one option on the bench who could come on and unlock a defence. (Smallbone is injured).

I’m not saying it’s brilliant right now, I agree the defence has been crap in the main. Though I guess not a huge surprise given it’s mainly the same personnel that have shown they cannot defend for the last two seasons (and beyond for one of them).

Could he have played a 4 atb instead of 5, I would say so and that’s something I’d like to see. But that being said, if Downes doesn’t think he’s Xavi and if he and Ross Stewart remembered how to head a football we’d have won.

He needs time, he’s only had three league games and the windows not even closed yet. If it’s still like this in October then probably time to panic.

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

You listed 5 players, two of which aren’t likely to be here next week and one who is 18 years old playing his first full season in men’s football (and seems to like falling over all the time).

 

So?

[ErwinK1961]

22 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

So?

So what?

Edozie wants to leave, hence why he’s not playing.

Fernandes played yday and was generally shite.

[Gloucester Saint]

9 hours ago, warsash saint said:

Only on Saintsweb!!!

 

About the manager - yes I agree. Far too soon, had a stinker yesterday and Robins took him to the cleaners, but it’s one game.

About the club, DoF and SR board? No, far too soft for too long. There should have been protests and boycotts some time ago. They are now under enormous pressure to transform the first XI in a solitary week.

Tick tock.

[egg]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

Some ways our deficient Championship squad that is doomed to failure because it's so shit unless we sign more forwards could line up:

 

                        Baz

Capn/Mads THB Quarshie Well/Mann

              Charles   Fernandes        

Armstrong      Robinson        Fraser   

                   Downs/Stewart

 

                         Baz  

Capn/Mads THB Quarshie Well Man

Fraser   Charles Fernandes Robinson

              Stewart   Armstrong

 

                      Baz

        THB     Capn   Quarshie     

Mads   Charles  Downes Man/Fraser

                      Fernandes

          Stewart    Armstrong/Archer

 

So deficient! The man has no chance without some of Stoke or Coventry or Middlesbrough's players.

And that's without even mentioning Edwards, who seems to have been coached from being one of the best CBs in the league to a fucking disaster zone in the space of one pre-season.

Honestly, excuses about having the "wrong" players are fucking pathetic, especially as he is also being praised for being a pragmatist who isn't wedded to a system.

Absolutely laughable.

 

 

Every one of those suggestions would lose the midfield. Fernandes plus Charles with Robinson dropping in is a shocker in particular. Also, any CB pairing with Quarshie in a 4 would get battered. 

Your suggestions show that Still doesn't have the right players.

The squad isn't right, although I agree that starting AA through the middle on his own was/is stupid. 

[egg]

54 minutes ago, benjii said:

I listed 5 players that have a proven track record of goals and assists in the division or, where they don't, are players with massive potential. Smallbone was also excellent as an attacking midfielder last time we were in the division but seems to have been jettisoned (or is he injured?). 

I'm not surprised Edozie wants to leave seeing the shite we are serving up.

Honestly, do you think we couldn't have maximised our options more in these 4 matches?

And, on top of that, our defending has been utter garbage.

If we played Smallbone this forum would go into meltdown. Personally, I like the lad, and I'd play him in a midfield 3, but he's far too lightweight to play as one of the 2 in a 4231. How do you suggest Smallbone be accomodated? 

I'm not sure when Edozie became the answer. Stepovers then nowt is his calling card. 

[benjii]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Every one of those suggestions would lose the midfield. Fernandes plus Charles with Robinson dropping in is a shocker in particular. Also, any CB pairing with Quarshie in a 4 would get battered. 

Your suggestions show that Still doesn't have the right players.

The squad isn't right, although I agree that starting AA through the middle on his own was/is stupid. 

Haha, mental. 

We're not playing against Busquets and Xavi or Modric and Kroos. 

And swap Quarshie for Edwards or Wood if you like.

[egg]

56 minutes ago, benjii said:

Haha, mental. 

We're not playing against Busquets and Xavi or Modric and Kroos. 

And swap Quarshie for Edwards or Wood if you like.

Mental is thinking that a midfield of Charles, Fernandes and Robinson would be an improvement on a midfield of Charles, Downes and Fernandes. Sure, we've been crap, but let's be sensible. 

[benjii]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Mental is thinking that a midfield of Charles, Fernandes and Robinson would be an improvement on a midfield of Charles, Downes and Fernandes. Sure, we've been crap, but let's be sensible. 

Its 4231, Robinson isn't in central midfield. If you like, swap him out and play Downes.

If you think we have to have 3 central midfielders for some reason, in the Championship against mostly inferior squads (which Still has never done in any of his matches yet) then we could have Charles, Downes and Fernandes behind a front 3 of Fraser/Armstrong, Stewart/Downs and Robinson/Fraser.

The point remains the same: the argument that Still is somehow hamstrung and has to play the crappy formation and line up he's played so far is plainly wrong.

[benjii]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cr4e55kg93lt

 

Lol

[SW11_Saint]

8 hours ago, benjii said:

Go and tell the other managers in the Championship we've got a "deficient squad". They'd laugh you back to the dinlow farm.

Playground insults… mature🙄

He’s inherited a squad that has some quality, but is made up of odds and ends from previous regimes. He needs time (and investment) to build his own team. 

[CB Fry]

51 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Playground insults… mature🙄

He’s inherited a squad that has some quality, but is made up of odds and ends from previous regimes. He needs time (and investment) to build his own team. 

A manager has inherited a squad of players signed before he arrived?

Fuck me. You mean like every single football manager since the dawn of time?

[SW11_Saint]

8 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

A manager has inherited a squad of players signed before he arrived?

Fuck me. You mean like every single football manager since the dawn of time?

So every other manager in the same situation is immediately successful? Would you buy Armstrong, Stewart, Archer & Downs as a complementary strikeforce? 

Edited August 24 by SW11_Saint

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, SW11_Saint said:

So every other manager in the same situation is immediately successful? Would you buy Armstrong, Stewart, Archer & Downs as a complementary strikeforce? 

The point is, as covered by benjii above, is that he isn't so hard done by, the squad is not that "deficient" as you're making out.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

So every other manager in the same situation is immediately successful? Would you buy Armstrong, Stewart, Archer & Downs as a complementary strikeforce? 

You forgot BBD.

If you can't get something out of that strike force then you're in the wrong profession. 

[SW11_Saint]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

You forgot BBD.

If you can't get something out of that strike force then you're in the wrong profession. 

Easily done…

Really? Downs a rookie who looks unconvincing. Arma hopeless as a main striker. Stewart, who has promise, also unconvincing when he does get a fleeting start, and Archer never quite ‘clicking’ with other players. 

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Easily done…

Really? Downs a rookie who looks unconvincing. Arma hopeless as a main striker. Stewart, who has promise, also unconvincing when he does get a fleeting start, and Archer never quite ‘clicking’ with other players. 

It would help if they ever got some game time. Starting a game at home with a packed defence and a lone striker is abject capitulation. 

[SW11_Saint]

36 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The point is, as covered by benjii above, is that he isn't so hard done by, the squad is not that "deficient" as you're making out.

I’m not saying he’s ’hard done by’ - but the fact is he has inherited a group of players, some of whom are not up to the job, some of whom want to leave and some who just don’t work in his preferred formations. It will take time, and moves in/out to sort out… 

Simply ludicrous that some fans are writing him off after 4 games and 1 defeat… though I probably shouldn’t be surprised.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, SW11_Saint said:

I’m not saying he’s ’hard done by’ - but the fact is he has inherited a group of players, some of whom are not up to the job, some of whom want to leave and some who just don’t work in his preferred formations. It will take time, and moves in/out to sort out… 

Simply ludicrous that some fans are writing him off after 4 games and 1 defeat… though I probably shouldn’t be surprised.

 

I've not written him off just yet but neither have I seen anything to give me hope.

[sockeye]

"Still" too early for me, but if we line up against Norwich and Watford in the same way we have in the last four he will begin to lose a lot of credit. I really want him to do well but it's time to try something new. 

[CB Fry]

13 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

I’m not saying he’s ’hard done by’ - but the fact is he has inherited a group of players, some of whom are not up to the job, some of whom want to leave and some who just don’t work in his preferred formations. It will take time, and moves in/out to sort out… 

Simply ludicrous that some fans are writing him off after 4 games and 1 defeat… though I probably shouldn’t be surprised.

 

No-one has written him off. No one.

[SW11_Saint]

11 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It would help if they ever got some game time. Starting a game at home with a packed defence and a lone striker is abject capitulation. 

I’ll agree on that somewhat. I don’t believe 5 is a ‘ packed defence’ though - the wingbacks are pushed further forward than fullbacks, so it can be more offensive. I could even live with one upfront, as long as it isn’t Arma. I’d like to see Stewart or even Downs start as the main striker. Perfect world I’d also like Archer to play off of them/him. 

[SW11_Saint]

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

No-one has written him off. No one.

Erm, you might want to check the title of the thread and Benjii’s posts… 

[SW11_Saint]

17 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I've not written him off just yet but neither have I seen anything to give me hope.

I think we need to get through August and see where we are. He needs support from the board and a settled, committed squad. 

[SW11_Saint]

On 23/08/2025 at 17:09, Osvaldorama said:

To be honest it’s not good enough at all 

He’s had all preseason and we look so disorganised.  
Why do Stoke look like a team, whereas we look like strangers?

Perhaps they had the same manager last year? 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, SW11_Saint said:

Erm, you might want to check the title of the thread and Benjii’s posts… 

😂 OK then.

[Osvaldorama]

13 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Perhaps they had the same manager last year? 

Makes a big difference, sure, but Still effectively wasted preseason imo. 
He didn’t play this formation or any players consistently in their positions and allow any chemistry to build. 

How can he expect a coherent team performance when the players are doing something brand new in their first competitive games?

Not writing him off, he needs time, but initial my opinion is that he has failed the first test already. Hopefully he is a fast learner. 

Edited August 25 by Osvaldorama

[Midfield_General]

On 23/08/2025 at 22:29, AlexLaw76 said:

However, for all Russell martin's twattyness, he did not play Arma as a lone striker with 5 defenders. 

No - he actually managed to be worse than that by picking no striker at all, or picking two and having them out on the touchlines with literally no-one in the middle. 

Arma as a 9 is an absolute disaster, yet it still makes more sense than some of the things that that idiot did. And continues to do, looking at the absolute shambles he’s now created at Rangers as well.

[Midfield_General]

14 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It would help if they ever got some game time. Starting a game at home with a packed defence and a lone striker is abject capitulation. 

Sorry, are you suggesting that the thing Adam Armstrong needs is more game time?

[SW11_Saint]

29 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Makes a big difference, sure, but Still effectively wasted preseason imo. 
He didn’t play this formation or any players consistently in their positions and allow any chemistry to build. 

How can he expect a coherent team performance when the players are doing something brand new in their first competitive games?

Not writing him off, he needs time, but initial my opinion is that he has failed the first test already. Hopefully he is a fast learner. 

I have no insider information, but I’d be astounded if they only worked on one formation in training. They’ve switched between 3 & 4 at the back in-game, so must have worked on both. For whatever reason he thinks 442 is suboptimal atm with the players he has (I’d prefer 442 too!). Hoping things will change if the board bring in the talent he needs - given their track record I’m nervous about that too! 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

Sorry, are you suggesting that the thing Adam Armstrong needs is more game time?

I'm saying that playing with a lonely striker is not going to be very successful. 

Did I mention Adam Armstrong?

[Roo1976]

On 24/08/2025 at 08:28, Pamplemousse said:

I'll wait until we lose 4 in a row including a 5-0 defeat before writing off Still and wanting Martin back.

Oh hang on, that actually did happen in the Championship under Martin. And we still went up...

He had a far better squad. We need a complete overhaul on the playing side. That's the issue.

Its far too late in the remaining transfer window to have a complete overhaul now ,that should have been planned months ago whilst we were still in the prem being relegated.

[Midfield_General]

21 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I'm saying that playing with a lonely striker is not going to be very successful. 

Did I mention Adam Armstrong?

It was in response to a post which mentioned him. But yeah I didn’t think you - or indeed anyone - could possibly believe that, hence the clarification. 

Edited August 25 by Midfield_General

[Holmes_and_Watson]

24 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I'm saying that playing with a lonely striker is not going to be very successful. 

Did I mention Adam Armstrong?

Is playing with a lonely striker so much better than playing with a broken striker?

Asking for a band who need a Yes on it, so they can finish their lyrics. 🙂

[m4]

Crazy post to be honest. Reminder that under Martin, we lost 5 of our first 9 games, along with a draw. 

We've lost one under Will Still, who has admitted he isn't playing the style he wants due to not having the resources. Wait until the windows finished to really pass judgment and stop wetting the bed.

[benjii]

17 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Erm, you might want to check the title of the thread and Benjii’s posts… 

I didn't write him off. But based on what I've seen so far, Martin appears to be a better coach.

[trousers]

13 minutes ago, benjii said:

based on what I've seen so far, Martin appears to be a better coach.

Martin may well be better at coaching, per se, the trouble is, often what he coaches isn't necessarily the best fit for the players he's coaching....

[Roo1976]

1 hour ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Is playing with a lonely striker so much better than playing with a broken striker?

Asking for a band who need a Yes on it, so they can finish their lyrics. 🙂

Ah what a wondrous story.................................

[Osvaldorama]

One major thing for me is that always when we have been at our best, there have been strong on field relationships. 
 

Lallana / Lambert, Tadic / Pelle , Fonte / VVD. 

 

On the wings, the full backs and wingers build up an understanding - eg. Bertrand and Redmond built up a chemistry.  I can go back further and name loads more.
Times where players knew each other so well, they instinctively know where each other will be. 

We just have zero relationships through the team any more, because there has been so much upheaval and so many new managers & players. It’s really worrying tbh as it’s not something that gets sorted quickly. And so many players signed for different strategies 
 

[SW11_Saint]

2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

One major thing for me is that always when we have been at our best, there have been strong on field relationships. 
 

Lallana / Lambert, Tadic / Pelle , Fonte / VVD. 

 

On the wings, the full backs and wingers build up an understanding - eg. Bertrand and Redmond built up a chemistry.  I can go back further and name loads more.
Times where players knew each other so well, they instinctively know where each other will be. 

We just have zero relationships through the team any more, because there has been so much upheaval and so many new managers & players. It’s really worrying tbh as it’s not something that gets sorted quickly. And so many players signed for different strategies 
 

I think that’s what he needs to work on when he has a settled squad. I also think it’s somewhat difficult for relegated clubs where PL clubs circle their prized assets but don’t always move until late in the window (eg Dibling/Fernandes) which then has the knock-on effect of those clubs not being able to recruit key players earlier in the window. 

[Gloucester Saint]

Although I dislike five at the back, I like Will Still.

The owners are fairly and squarely the issue, particularly Phil Giles’s ex-colleague still pulling Spors’s strings. Can’t wait until they sell up and go.

[adrian lord]

Agree, SR are the root cause of our current problems and of course we have been dogged by bad owners since the day Marcus died. 

A pre-season is worthless if one is going to then sell several of the drilled players and rely on a host of new players coming in at the tail end of the window when the season is several games old. 

Edited August 25 by adrian lord

[Gloucester Saint]

38 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

Agree, SR are the root cause of our current problems and of course we have been dogged by bad owners since the day Marcus died. 

A pre-season is worthless if one is going to then sell several of the drilled players and rely on a host of new players coming in at the tail end of the window when the season is several games old. 

Kat did her best and had fantastic seasons up to 2017. Jisheng Gao was the death knell really, and once the club was hollowed out SR have done the rest of the demolition.