VectisSaint

Channon debuted in Apr 66, made 2 appearances in 66-67 but was then a regular in 67-68; 27 appearances, made simpler by the departure of Chivers. So he was a regular by the age of 19. The point was he was in the squad at 17 and making occassional appearances, and don't forget in those days there were only 12 players available on match days (and the sub could only be used for injury replacement), no place on a subs bench to blood a youngster for 15 minutes at the end of an already won game. In some ways you could argue that its actually easier to get a kid into the first team than it was 30 or 40 years ago. I know I picked on some top players as examples, but my point was it was not hard to find a lot of players very easily who broke into the 1st team in their teens. I don't think it would be difficult to find a lot more to be honest. My point with Williamson still stands, I don't think it was the fact that he was being kept out of the team, rather that it really is very difficult for a CB to break through, as opposed to a winger because of the physical needs of the position. I think Martin is an exceptional talent, I don't think there is any way Saints would unload him now, he clearly can stand in for Fonte or Hoiveld when needed, and will develop in this position over the coming 2 or 3 seasons. He will be 23 in September, so really not a youngster any more.

I've posted on 2 or 3 other threads about this. The Premier Reserve League is not fully supported by the PL teams, Man City, Stoke, Spurs & QPR did not enter this year. Arsenal were apparently "bullied" into entering at the last minute. The reason is that it is not competitive and appears to be doing nothing substantial for player development. I would not be surprised if we do not enter. There are however plans afoot to revamp the Reserve League for the 2013/14 season. The main changes being discussed are to make it an Under 21 league, though with allowances to play a quota of over age players to enable players to get back to fitness. There are other suggestions as well, but the most contentious I would guess is to associate the reserve matches with the first team games, I read that they were planning to play the reserve matches just after the 1st team games had finished. There are obvious issues with this, not least what happens with midweek matches, can't see them kicking off at 10pm, and also I could imagine clubs being concerned about the state of the pitch after 3 hours football on a wet January afternoon. The idea of playing just after the first team game is that it would also enable players who were on the bench but not used to get a game. For me a major issue is that the Reserve League is directly connected with the Premier League, meaning that teams who are relegated from the PL have to look elsewhere for their reserve team matches, which can be very disruptive for those clubs who like ourselves have strong academy/development streams but who slip out of the PL. Not at all clear if these plans will come to fruition, but in any case nothing new until 2013, so will be interesting to see if more teams drop out next year.

man

I agree with Dalek. Do people seriously look back on Chris Nicholl as a failure as a manager? I certainly don't. Always had a hard act to follow but did it very well initially. Lasted a lot longer than most and even that many think was good (e.g. Hoddle & Strachan). I would put Chris Nicholl as 3rd or 4th in our all time list of managers (behind Lawrie & Ted), although NA will probably prove to be better once he gets his crack in the PL.

David, not really sure this statement is true. OK, bit more than 20 years ago, but here's a few that made their debuts long before they were 21, Mick Channon, 17, Glen Hoddle, 17, Trevor Francis 16, George Best 17, Matt Le Tissier 18 (?), Peter Shilton 16, I'm sure I could pluck many more out of the ether. The top players have nearly always come to the fore in their teens, Walcott and Oxo are not that much of a phenomenon in that respect. One thing that does make a difference in many cases though is the position that a young player starts off at. It is in my opinion much harder for a centre back, or even centre forward to break though at a very young age, because of the need for more of a physical presence. True also of goalkeepers (although Shilts would suggest otherwise, he was truly exceptional). It is much easier for a winger, or these days a full back to break through earlier. It is very difficult to hold on to young centra defenders, take Mike Williamson for instance, didn't look out of place against Man City on Sunday but released by us, same with Monk at Swansea. Cranie didn't look too bad the other day against us for Coventry.

One of Boro's bigger crowds by the look of things.

Looks like you can't read, most of them saying it would be a steal to get him for 750k, others simply comparing him to Marshall, whoever he is. I suspect there is something in the rumour, otherwise Reading would have released him at the same time as the other 13. They know that he is actually worth something by selling rather than releasing.

Hopefully not, if that was his target he would have been disappointed. Bayern II played on Friday night and Jennings was subbed after 67 minutes.

Maybe Fat Sam would suggest otherwise

There seems to be an assumption that now we are in the PL we will also be in the Premier Reserve League. This is not the case. We may or may not enter, it is not compulsory, there are only 16 teams competing this year. The PRL is not considered to be very good and poorly structured at the moment. There are plans afoot to completely revamp it for the 2013/14 season, with new age rules (u21 I think but caveats to allow over-age players to play), and matches to be played in conjucntion with first team matches (the ideas I saw floated were to play the reserve games following the first team games, though how that would work in practice is hard to see with weekend games, badly cut-up pitches and so on). Bottom line though is that we may well not be in the Reserve league next season, just as Man City, Newcastle and Stoke and QPR are not this season.

The 25 man squad size does not include under 21 players. You can use as many of them as you like. The whole point of the squad size rule is to encourage home-grown young talent.

There haven't been many 3pm Saturday kick-offs this season, only 9 at home all season, 11 away and since New Year even less than previously. Good thing about the PL is that most games are at weekends, apart from the MNF of course. For those of us who live a few miles away this is actually much better than the many midweek 7.45 kick-offs.

Sorry, I read the title and overlooked the fact that the actual post added the words "League 1" Quite why someone puts a title and then changes it in the post itself is beyond me.

Not only is he a Reading player, but he was not amongst the 13 players that they have released which included several first teamers. So they clearly think he has a future with them in the PL, or they have already had an acceptable offer from elsewhere (Wednesday).

I must have missed us losing to Rochdale in the Championship. Will miss us winning more often than not. Get used to the fact that we will probably not win much more than 12-15 league games next season.

Take off the rose tinted specs. Sorry that you can't deal with facts. This is not negativity, just a simple observation as the result of this thread. Saints always had young home grown players throughout our history. At the moment we have no-one other than Lallana who is now 23. Quite clear that no-one is on the verge of breaking through in the PL.

No I,m not.Mentioned Oxo several times and also Theo and Bale. Point. Is we have a missing few years with no breakthroughs. If people can,t see that then c,est la vie. Martin is not an academy product by the way and is also 22 or 23.

Its shocking as a long term Saints supporter. We have always had young players coming through, one or two at least, right back to the days of Mick Channon in 1966/67 and so on. That is what is shocking. Shocking that because of all of the problems we have had we have a significant hole in our assembly line of young talent. But theres not a lot can be done, just a sad reflecttion on our recent history. I don't see anyone breaking through next season either.

Really, I'm very surprised at the stat if true. Looks a hugely overrated player, good skill but goes down blind alleys and has no end product, was dire last night and also against us at St Andrews in the snow. Ince and Phillips showed him up last night. I think Ince would be a superb signing, reminds me of Ronaldo the way he runs and will develop into a great player (just a pity he is his father's son). Will be interesting if Blackpool don't go up to see if they take up the option for a 3rd year in order to bump up his price.

Balotelli was under 21 last year, Walker at Spurs, Ramsey at Arsenal (last year), OK I'm comparing to last year, but that is reasonable as this will be our first year under the rules. The stark fact is that due to our problems over the last 5-6 years our much hyped Academy has provided no input into the current first team other than Adam Lallana who is now 23, other than Oxo last season. Thats a huge gap, very few clubs have no first team players in this age range. We are seriously considered by many to be a young team, but actually we aren't. It is something the management will surely look to put right by bringing in a couple of young emerging players capable of finding their way into the first team next season. Will be happy to see Ward-Prowse or someone else making it, but find it difficult to imagine given their lack of impact in the past season.

Have you considered that maybe it was never actually planned, but that the players were goading NC into taking them to Vegas again.

Find it hard to believe that **** was invited after the way he behaved towards us when we were docked 10 points, seems an odd choice of guest. Although I suppose in a perverse sort of way without him we would not have ended up with Markus/Nicola in charge.

3rd choice keeper likely to be under 21, hence has no impact on squad size, and also means it won't be Bart.

Suspect Bart will not be with us next season, and hopefully Fourpast will be gone as well. So need to sign 2 new keepers, one youngster as No 3, and one established experienced keeper initially as backup to KD. While KD's ability at crosses and corners has improved markedly, he still gives me the shivers at times I'm afraid, but for sure he will be No.1 to start with at least next season.

Looking at the current squad and omitting all of the u21s, and some of the obvious leavers (Jaidi, Forte, Homes, Dickson, Falque, etc) we only have a squad of 23 anyway (we have no problem naming 8 home grown players, in fact there are not many players that don't qualify, Hooiveld, Fonte, de Ridder, Lee at a guess). I suspect we will lose a couple of others (Barnard?) so will have several spaces for new players. If one or two new players that we sign are also under 21 we would not have any issue with this rule. I seem to recall llast year that several teams did not even name 25 players on 1 September. The thing that is worrying at the moment is that we have no established 1st team squad players under 21. That is shocking really. OK, one or two youngsters were on the verge last year but only Ward-Prowse looked like breaking through. Definitely think we need to bring in one or two young players who already have some experience. Would really like to get Tom Ince, assuming Blackpool don't go up.