Rebel
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A slight variation on that for me if we are going to play 3 at the back against United and the other big clubs. Might as well play Hoedt on the left of the back three as he is left footed. And with Long and Austin upfront we can play a bit more direct and use the full backs to cross the ball in to the box. It's also more or less the way we played the 3-5-2 under Koeman against the big clubs. ..............................................Forster............................................... .....................Yoshida.................Van Dijk...............Hoedt.................... Cedric...................................................................................Bertrand ..................................Romeu..............Lemina.................................... ..............................................Davis............................................... .............................Long........................ Austin...............................
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4-3-3 for me -------------Forster------------ Cedric--Stephens--Hoedt--Bertrand JWP-------Romeu---------Lemina Long----Austin----Gabbi Our midfield keeps getting overrun so I think we need to play 3 midfielders - a tackler in Romeu, a box-to-box runner in Lemina and a passer in JWP (who when played in the right position on the right of a midfield can be a good player). Upfront we need the physical presence of Austin in the box to give us a focal point - and actually encourage our fullbacks to get forward and cross the ball and our midfield to play the ball forward. The pace, physicality and running of Long will cause any defence problems as we've all seen and also open up the space. And hopefully with Austin holding the ball and laying it off or getting on the end of crosses and Long mixing it up physically it will create some space for the intelligent movement and finishing of Gabbiadini coming in off the left flank. For me Gabbi is just not suited to leading the line so we need to change things around to get the best out of him. And with Lemina making runs in to the box to be the 4th man - and JWP sitting deep to make the play or going wide to cross the ball in we might actually see some goals - or at least some attempts at scoring. And with Hojberg, Redmond and Tadic on the bench we might have some subs who can make and impact if we need it. Anyway that's the theory - now just for the practice!
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I was expecting us to sell Tadic this summer and replace him in the starting 11 with Boufal and in the squad with a younger player like Roberts or Karamoh. I was also expecting us to sell Long and replace him with a younger and better forward - someone who has pace but can also finish - someone like Vietto or Gabriel Barbosa maybe. Although either of these could be seen as a replacement for Rodriguez who I thought was replaced by Gallagher. (By the way I am only naming these players as we have been linked with them in the press - I'm not in the know or a transfer guru) I don't really understand why we let Gallager go on loan to Birmingham City and Redknapp of all people - I would have kept Gallagher over Long - he's just as physical as Long and probably a better finisher although maybe not as fast on the ground and he gives us an alternative player and a different style to lead the line. For me its time to cash in on Van Dijk and spend the money on the first 11. There are a number of players that that need to be moved on to clear space in the squad and room on the wage bill - namely Clasie, Long and Gardos. I'd add Tadic to that list as well but only if we bring in another attacking player. And Pied probably need to be replaced as well - to me he seems to be just another cheap stop gap at right back in the same way Cuco Martin was - slightly better maybe but still not good enough. And Bednarek probably needs to go on loan lower down the League to develop as he seems to be way of the level we need. Last season we had the wrong manager in Puel - but the squad wasn't good enough either. This season I hope we have the right manager in Pellegrino - but at the moment he doesn't have a good enough squad either. I certainly don't think we have two good players in every position as Reed and Co seem to claim. Lemina and Hoedt were certainly steps in the right direction - but we still need to take a few more steps.
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Tadic it seems is better on the left cutting in on his right foot and Redmond is better on the right crossing the ball in on his right foot and taking on players on the outside. And Redmond has the pace we need but he is a winger - not an ACM or No. 10. Similarly Tadic seems lost when he's played as a No.10 - without the space he needs to make things happen which he has on the wing. I am not really sure where Boufal best position is - mostly because he's not really played that much - but of the three he looks the most suited to playing the ACM or No. 10 role. But I think we have proved you can't play both Tadic and Boufal in the same team - neither really track back and lack the pace we need up front. So for me it has to be one these two and Redmond at the moment with either Davis or JWP in the three behind the striker. Long give us an alternative to Redmond as a wide striker - but he lacks the finishing touch to be a main striker.
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Taking a radical view maybe it is time for the club to move on players like Tadic, Long, Clasie, Gardos and give the younger players like Redmond, Stephens, Boufal, JWP, Lemina and PEH the game time to develop - and add more young players like Roberts, Karamoh, Hoedt and Christensen who will also develop with game time and use players like Targett, McQueen, Gallagher, Bednarek, Sims, Flannigan and Slattery as the back up players. You could argue that maybe we do need to move on players like Yoshida, Davis and Pied as well to give younger players the room to develop. Even Bertrand to give Targett and McQueen the room to develop. Now I am not saying I would actually do this - you need balance and experienced quality in the squad - but I don't think its a million miles away from what the club is actually thinking - bringing in or through young players from the academy, developing them, flipping them as someone said by selling them and replacing them with younger players, giving the younger players room to develop, focusing on new younger players with real potential - and repeating the process. In some ways its the 'pathway' they talk about. I probably would move on Tadic, Clasie, Long and Gardos this summer (to give the existing younger players room to develop) and replace them with younger players who will also need the room to develop. So it looks like Lemina will replace Clasie anyway and Bednarek will probably replace Gardos (when he goes out on loan for his final year I expect). And we could be looking to bring in someone like Patrick Roberts to replace Tadic and maybe someone like Yann Karamoh to replace Long. Vietto or Gabriel Barbosa might also fit this model as well - but the slight adaptation that we look for players like Lemina and PEH with real potential that haven't been given the time to develop at a big club. And if Van Dijk goes replacing him with someone like Christensen or Hoedt (or both) would make sense based on this model as well.
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really? Failure to replace Fonte properly in January probably cost just the League Cup Final. Failure to replace Fonte last summer before we sold him and we knew he wanted to go. Starting last season with just JayRod, Long and Austin as our forward options - surely everyone could see we were going to struggle with a lack of goals with those options. Failure to really replace the goals and attacking options of Mane and Pelle last summer. Buying Boufal when he was obviously crocked - when we need a fit and firing ACM. Replacing Chambers and Clyne at right back - over £30 million worth of players sold - with Cedric and Martina/Pied for less then £5 million. Appointing Puel - there is no denying now he was the wrong manager - but then failing to give him the backing he needed with a squad to suit his style of play. All of those things left me feeling a little disappointed. I'm not saying I think they've done a terrible job - after all we've made it to Europe, finished in the top 10 for 4 seasons in a row and made it to a League Cup Final - but we haven't actually won anything and our squad now is probably weaker than the one Pochettino started with if Van Dijk goes. Now I expect some of this - players wanting to leave for example - was simply beyond their control - and other than the board who really knows the realities of Saints financial situation - but there are certainly things they could have done better. I'm not going to be disappointed if they end up selling Van Dijk - but I will be disappointed if they don't replace him properly. Sometimes I just wish we looked a bit more like we were on the front foot with transfers.
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My first thought is that's a bit disappointing if that's true - its yet another window where Reed and Co have let down the manager and supporters. We all agreed that we needed a more physical presence in CDM - and cover for Romeu - and it looks like Lemina will tick that box. But I think most of us felt we needed an ACM that can score goals and a real replacement for Fonte at CB as well. Not too mention a top class replacement for VVD is he goes. The board are running a tight club though and it looks like we are set to make transfer profit again. And the reality is I think that is where our ambition really lies - not in Europe or winning things - but in making a profit. So it seems it will always be a case of 1 in 1 out for the most part - with Stephens stepping up to replacing Fonte (and Bednarek stepping in to replace Stephens as 4th choice). I was expecting Gardos and Clasie to leave this summer - with Bednarek replacing Gardos and Lemina replacing Claise, but if we are bringing in an attacker on Loan maybe Long will be the one to leave. With Clasie staying it gives us 6 central midfielders - which gives you the cover you need if you're going to play 4-3-3. Not sure where that leaves Taylor and Gardos though. Could the attacking player on loan be one of the three 'wide forwards' we have been linked with - Luciano Vietto, Gabriel Barbosa or Patrick Roberts?
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OK so in the spirit of the OP - here goes! So starting with the fact that we have sold VVD to Chelsea for £60M plus Andreas Christensen - here is what we do in 'realistic fantasy' land - and keeping with our supposed buy young players with potential strategy: And then with the £60M sign: DC: Wesley Hoedt from Lazio FW: Patrick Roberts from Man City FW: Yann Karamoh from Caen Play Jack Stephens as a defensive midfielder, sell Clasie and Long and loan out Gardos.
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Get Andreas Christensen in part exchange for Van Dijk and spend some of the money on Wesley Hoedt - 2 centrebacks with first team experience in the Bundesliga and Serie A - right age at 23 and 24. And send Gardos and Bednarek out on loan. And spend the rest of the money on one of William Carhalho, Geoffrey Kondogbia or Gregorz Kryochiawk to partner Romeu in midfield. Easy peasy as you say!
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Its going to be last summer isn't it!? Last summer the transfer window closed and we started the season with some major gaps in the squad. At the start of last season I think we all knew we were going to struggle to score goals and that we lacked any real strength or depth in midfield. Whereas this season - although we might have solved the goal scoring problem upfront with Austin and Gabbi - we still lack strength in depth in midfield but with Fonte gone and Virgil probably going it looks like we are going to have a big hole at the back. Even if Virgil stays and we don't lose anyone else I'd like to see us add a first choice centre back, a physical CDM and a ACM. If Virgil goes a first choice centre back to partner Yoshida or Stephens is a must - and so is a physical CDM to partner or cover Romeu and Hojberg and shield the defence - even more so if we are going to play 4-2-3-1.
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I think we'll see some movement in and out of the squad before the transfer window closes - whether Van Dijjk, Cedric or Bertrand go or not. But I think it will be more a case of one in and one out rather than real additions - and maybe the odd trimming of the squad as well. I fully expect Gardos to go out on loan for his final season - either back to Roumania or the lower end of the Championship - and it looks to me like Bednarek was bought as his replacement. There are rumours that Reading want Long - and I wouldn't be too sad or surprised to see him go either (as long as he takes that bl**dy song with him) and I think we will look to replace him with someone like Karamoh or Roberts. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Tadic go to Inter to replace Perisic if he gets his move to Man Utd - and I have a feeling Boufal was bought as his replacement last summer. Clasie is another one I expect to move on - Lazio are supposedly interested. Maybe we will add the ACM we need having shown interest in Armstrong at Celtic - but I think he will just replace someone in the squad even if its not a direct replacement.
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You can sign 2 but have to release 4 - Who goes?
Rebel replied to Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd's topic in The Saints
Out: Clasie Gardos Long Davis In: Geoffrey Kondogbia for the physicality and mobility we need in central defensive midfield Hakim Ziyech - for the ACM/no 10 role both in their early 20's with the probability they are going to get better and their value go up -
For me its: Forster Cedric Stephens VVD Bertrand Romeu PEH JWP Redmond Gabbi Austin Austin has to lead the line for us - we need him in the box to score goals, convert the crosses, win the headers and hold the ball up. Gabbi is better as a wide or second striker than a centre forward according to all the reports I read on him when we signed him - and he'll use the space created by Austin to nip in and score. Redmond gives us that pace we need on the break and also seems to play better when wide out on the right. I just don't see any end product in Boufal or Tadic at the moment. JWP - for the set pieces - and he has more chance of delivering the killer pass than Davis. PEH - there's no one else - but he needs to step up and live up to the comparison with Busquets the club was so smug about! Stephens - better on the ball than Yoshida - and he's only going to get better the more we play him.
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Unfortunately I think its true that our current midfielders aren't really good enough - or to some extent anyway as its probably the mix that's wrong more than anything. Davis is a jack of all and a master of none in midfield. He's not a holding midfielder and he's not an attacking midfielder. He's really the third midfielder in a midfield 3 - but he's not really a dynamic box-to-box midfielder either. And every time he's played as one of the double pivot we have been overrun. He's great against teams when we ae dominating the ball and keeping possession though. He's also past his best but that is another issue. JWP is pretty similar to Davis but I think potentially he is a lot better - and he could become the dynamic box-to-box midfielder we are missing or another deep lying playmaker. I think Claise and Hojberg were bought as deep lying play makers to sit alongside Romeu and replace Schneiderlin. But I think Clasie has proved he lacks some of the physicality needed in the premier league for that role - although he has the passing and the positional sense. Hojbgerg has the physicality and the passing range needed and I think will come good given games and time. He needs to improve his positioning and awareness though. And both need to work in their stamina. Maybe Hojberg could be a box-to-box midfielder in time. Clasie was bought by Koeman as his favourite - bit like Martina - never really understood why Reed and the black box let him do it. And I am guessing Hojberg was bought as Clasie wasn't living up to expectations - and we thought he would be a real money making prospect. What we lack is an out and out attacking midfielder/No. 10 and a second holding or defensive midfielder to play alongside Romeu or cover for him if he gets injured. You could argue we need a dynamic box-to-box midfielder as well. I don't really count Boufal as midfielder - more a winger - but maybe I'll be proved wrong. I see him more as a long term replacement for Tadic/Mane. Sometimes I daydream we bought Hakim Ziyech or even Ondrej Duda instead. I think Boufal was Puel's buy and an attempt to replicate the player he had at Nice with Ben Arfa. Again I don't know why Reed and the black box let him to it. It depends on what formation you play - 4 3 3 or 4 2 3 1 - but I'd argue we need to strengthen the midfield to give us the option of playing a proper double pivot/2 defensive midfielders or a 3 made up of one holding, one box-to-box and one attacking midfielder. Undoubtedly our best midfield at present is a midfield 3 of Romeu as the holding midfielder, Hojberg as a deep lying playmaker and JWP as box-to-box midfielder - so there is room for improvement and strengthening. Replacing Clasie with Chalobah would have given us a second holding midfielder and more options in midfield. I'd also replace Davis with a dynamic box-to-box midfielder and add a proper attacking midfielder. Anyway what do I know.
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That positional map says it all really - we sat far too deep and had nothing up front. Once Spurs equalised we just sat back and invited them on to us - but had no out ball and nothing upfront to counter attack with. The big question though was that the players or the manager. Neither one is good but I have a feeling it was the managers tactics. A number of players had a bad game as well which really didn't help - Forster and Romeu in particular. Rodriguez gave us nothing but was isolated up front and Boufal is tricky in the ball but lacks anything resembling an end product. And Steven Davis had another one of those games again - Jack of all and master of none - he is just not dynamic enough. He's not physical or defensive enough and he's not attacking or creative enough. Playing him and JWP together means our midfield is just too lightweight. It was also obvious yesterday that we lacked physical presence in midfield - Romeu was off the pace which didn't help but Hojgberg should have started against Spurs physical midfield. But we desperately need another physical or defensive midfielder. I'd have Schneiderlin back in a shot if we could afford him.
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Can't say I'm too sad to see him go - had a bad attitude for most of this season, missed a lot of games through suspension and at times his passing of the ball, positioning and reading of the game and work rate were terrible. When he could be arsed he was at times great though. But he will need replacing - Clasie, Reed, Davis and Ward-Prowse just don't have the physical presence needed for a defensive midfielder which leaves us with just Romeu. Romeu is a better passer of the ball and probably better at reading the game and being in the right position to intercept the ball. The biggest problem is when he goes forward he's not got the pace to get back in to position if they opposition break on us. Also he's not dominant in the air at all. We need at least one other big defensive midfielder to provide cover - or to let us play a double pivot / defensive duo. Personally I think Clasie is surplus to requirements in the midfield - he's just not physical enough or dynamic enough for the premier league and we have Davis, Reed and Ward-Prowse who are all as good if not better. Although I think Reed is probably too small as well. We should cash in on him if we can get our money back or better - plus he's Koeman's man - and add that to the money raised from selling Wanyama and go and buy a beast of a defensive midfielder
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Any 2 from Praet, Ziyech and Silva to replace Tadic and Juanmi Sebastian Haller and/ or Vincent Janssen to replace Pelle Redmond and Townsend to replace Mane Wanyama will be the hardest to replace - Schneiderlin would be perfect, Cork even - but I expect t someone from Europe - Oscar Hiljdemark maybe - or Marco Benassi Simples!
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None of those are a surprise. Juanmi almost gone already - it's a shame it didn't work out Wanyama's not exactly a surprise - we all know he's wants to leave for a big champions league club - he's not exactly given his all this season Mane - again no surprise - pretty much the same as Big Vic - he can be great but he's so inconsistent - we've probably seen the best of him already Pelle - he's no longer first choice, he's got a year left on his contract and he's over 30 - plus he wants to one last chance at a big club in Italy - and we look better going forward when he's not leading the line Tadic - maybe a surprise to some but he had a run in with Koeman earlier in the season which suggested he'd leave this summer - given his contract and age maybe it's a good time to sell him - I expect he'll follow Pelle to Italy for one last big payday I think we will see a few others go as well - maybe Yoshida for first team football somewhere - and maybe Jay Rodriguez back to Burnley As long as we replace them and add some more depth for the Europa League we wil 'March On'
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Virgil van Dijk signs new six-year deal with Saints
Rebel replied to Saint-Armstrong's topic in The Saints
Barcelona? Messi, Iniesta, Pedro, Xavi, Busquets, Puyol, Tello, Pique all came through the Barca academy - and then you have Bojan, Bartra, Muniesa, Romeu, Etc -
It was a great day out - and will live long in the memory. It was my birthday too just like today :-)! I got to see Saints play at Wembley and actually win something which apart from 76 when I was too young to really know what it meant was something I never thought I'd see in my lifetime. It was also the day the club returned from the brink - where 40,000 to 50,000 Saints fans celebrated the fact we had survived it all and were on our way back.
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We should have given up on Ramírez a long time ago - he doesn't have the right attitude or temperament for English Football. He's been given so many chances and failed to take any of them. He's the only player I've seen walk of the pitch before being subbed - and he's done that 2 or 3 times now. Hopefully we will get him off the wage bill this month. We've also proved we are better with two upfront - so I'd start with Long and Juanmi upfront and a diamond in midifield with Romeu as the defenisve midfielder, Clasie on the left and Ward-Prowse on the right as the Central midfielders and Davis in the hole at the tip of the diamond. I'd play the current defence of Bertrand, Van Dijk, Fonte and Martina with Gazzinaga in goal. And I'd have the kids on the bench - Stephens, Seagar, Targett and Reed - to see if they can make a difference if we need it - or get some game time depending how the game goes.
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We should have replaced Clyne with someone like Kieran Trippier, Carl Jenkinson or Sam Byram. Supposedly we were interested in Byram but weren't willing to pay the £6M fee Leeds wanted. Jenkinson was supposed to be our first choice and rumour has it we had agreed a fee with with Arsenal for £10 million but he chose to go back to West Ham on loan instead. But more importantly we should have replaced Calum Chambers a year earlier - or refused to sell him - as when he left it was obvious Clyne was going to leave. We didn't which meant in the end we had to panic buy this summer. We sold Chambers for £17M and Clyne for £15M so we should at least have spent £15M on two replacements. Not just £5M on Cedric and Martina. We'd be laughing now if we had Jenkinson and Byram at right back. Similarly I don't understand why we let Cork leave last Jsnuary knowing Schneiderlin was going to leave in the summer. We simply shouldn't have let it get to the stage where he felt unwanted and chose to leave. It's not all about the money - but I think Les Reed and Co have convinced themselves they are clever than they are - that they can identify and sign an unknown player from abroad, improve the player, sell him on at a profit and repeat the process. Cedric was this type of signing I guess - but I am not sure he is up to it in the premier league - same with Juanmi. Both are too small for one thing. If we signed one of Trippier, Byram or Jenkinson and Cedric again I think we'd be fairly happy. Martina was just a last minute panic buy - and one I don't really understand. One of the problems I think we've got is our wage bill - if it's at 60% of our turnover isn't it maxed out? If so its means we can't afford to pay anymore thanks to FFP. So maybe it is partly about the money. This is where the lack of commercial revenue and disastrous signings like Osvaldo and Ramírez have bitten us. But we have made some bad signings since those two and I think both Les Reed and his team and the Koemsn brothers share the blame for that. Players like Pellè, Martina, Stekelenburg and Clasie were undoubtedly Koeman brothers signings. Tadic was identified by Reeds team but approved by Koeman according to Ron's comment at the time. Van Dijk was probably the same. And Alderweireld similar. Whereas Juanmi, Cedric, Mané, Gardos and Caulker look like Les Reed signings to me. And not forgetting Long - for the £12 million fee the worst of the lot. We have also lost our English core and a not of our team spirit along with it or so it seems as well. So Reed and Koeman should share the blame for player recruitment - which has taken us a step backwards. But Koeman has to take the blame for our tactics - we no longer press the ball, build from the back or look as fit. We look very one dimensional playing the long ball to Pellè most of the time. Will Koeman walk? Yes I think he will in the summer to protect his reputation - because unless something changes we are going backwards - and probably looking at a relegation battle next season if not this one.
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The sad fact is two seasons ago our squad was miles better than that of Palace or Stoke whereas this season our squad is probably worse than both. In Puncheon, Zaha and Bolasie Palace have a great attacking 3 and a playmaker of real quality in Cabaye. Supporting them they have a solid squad of players and in a couple of other positions are probably better of than us as well - right back foe example with Ward. Stoke have a great front three of Bojan, Shaqiri and Arnautovic - again supported by a solid squad of hard working players - and again with players like Eric Pieters at left back some real quality in there as well. West Ham have also strengthened their squad with real quality in Zarate, Lanzini and Payet and also have a solid squad whilst Carl Jenkinson is a much better right back than anything we have. All three have better squads - with more quality and strength in depth than us now. And when you add last seasons top 6 (Arsenal, Cheslea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City, Spurs) and Everton without the distraction of the Europa League who all have better squad than us - and Leicester who are having one of those seasons -we will be lucky to finish 12th.
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We were close to bringing someone in on loan before the deadline in the summer supposedly so maybe that will be resurrected. No idea who it was though - although I have a sneaking suspicion it was Filip Djuricic again. I can actually see us signing Djuricic as he's not wanted by Benfica and is supposedly available for a knockdown price. He can actually play the No. 10 role and was just starting to adapt to the premier league at the end of last season. Damarai Gray and Solly March have both been linked in the press - Young English wingers - and we do need some pace up front. We have also been linked to Charlie Austin and with 6 months on his contract he will be available - an aggressive and mobile physical striker which we desperately need. Another player with 6 months on his contract is Tonny Vilhena at Feyenord who we have been linked with in the past. I can see Koeman making a bid for one of his protégés who can play the attacking or defensive midfield role and is left footed. And let's not forget Rodriguez, Forster and Gardos should all make a return in January. We should also bring back Gallagher, Stephens and Turnbull to add some strength in depth and some heart to the team. Maybe we should consider a sneaky 6 month loan for Pato - he wants to play in England and needs a shop window and we need a striker.
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If we play the same old 4-2-3-1 with the usual suspects we will lose again. We need to bench Wanyama, Pelle and Taduc and stop long balling it. We need to change things and play 4-3-3 for me with pace and movement up front - and a solid midfield that find the front 3 with the through pass - and cover for the full backs when they go forwRd and add some width. A front three of Juanmi on the left, Long down the middle, and Mane on the right. A midfield of Romeu as the holding midfielder, sitting deep to protect the back 4, Davis on the left and Clasie on the right to press the opposition and support the front the three. A back 4 of Bertrand, Fonte, Van Dijk and Cedric - with the full backs provide width on the overlap when attacking and Fonte and van Dijk taking it in turns to bring the ball out from the back to start attacks. If this doesn't work we should switch to 4-3-1-2 and bring on Tadic for Juanmi to play in the hole behind two strikers - Mane and Long, maybe switching one for Pelle if all else fails.
