Saint86

That mate, is exactly what the board want you to think. Its all one big greasy PR machine. Koeman has started giving them a hard time and they've begun the deflection and undermine strategy they have used every time it goes against them. Did you not notice the recent ITK comments casting doubt on Koeman... Same old same old. Things go wrong and all of a sudden there is loads of info coming out undermining or discrediting those involved.

The kids are good enough, you don't beat everton 3-0 with 7 of them in the squad if they aren't. Seager is a natural goal scorer and has been prolific at every level he's played at. Don't forget we also have young calum and josh sims at that level. As for Gallagher. He score under poch and got a number of appearances in the prem despite his dad dying. The kid is good enough and it is a failure of the current set up that no one other than Target is getting any game time. We are buying fillers and putting them in the way of youth players. As a result the wage and transfer costs are going up and loyalty is going out the window. It is a terrible business model. The fans need to stop buying the boards PR BS frankly. From the second Cortese was outed the new lot have set about using PR to tarnish his legacy and make sure that anyone who steps out of line at the club is at fault and this is then hinted at in the press or through little "ITK" snippets on the forums etc. I don't honestly believe that every time something goes against the club/board it is the other parties fault.... there is no smoke without fire and there has been far too many instances now... the only common denominator is the board. Make absolutely no mistake, under poch, Seager, Gallagher, Target, Hekseth, McQueen, Gape etc would all have had far more opportunities than now, and we would possibly have seen Josh and Callum also. All this is aside from the current results. I think Forster back in goal and we'll get back to winning ways. But there is very obviously a philosophy issue behind the scenes. I think the three players Koeman wanted this summer were Toby, VVD and Claise... I don't see how Juanmi and Martina fit into his style and these two seem like black box (post Mitchell) signings. I also think that the board would have sold both Wanyama and Mane this january given the chance and Koeman's very public and outspoken media comments that neither will be sold was done to make it very difficult for the board to flog em. That said, he needs to be playing the kids. Most saints fans would excuse losses if it meant we were developing our own, and the club have seriously misjudged the fan base if they think differently.

Things have been heading this way since Cortese went.... Wonder where this road ends up.

In fact he is having a great game, tackling, stopping crosses, tracking his man and always keeping the ball whilst getting forward and offering a dangerous outlet. Not far off deserving a run in the team..... Under a poch style manager anyway.

Playing well I think, just skimmed 2 players on a run onto the edge of the box from the right back position. A real handful in the air and can certainly handle himself. Very impressed so far, really finding his feet!

The thing is, Osvaldo was on a lower wage and the club only paid £9m for him. Some of that we recovered in loan fees. We also recovered a good portion of his wages whilst he was on loan. All in all, and sadly for Gaston, he expense is largely a wasted one by the club. The big mistake in all this is singing players the managers do not want. Partly the reason why Ron's first season was so successful, he had a clean slate and a nice budget to build his own team as a condition of his joining. Why this approach was then altered to include so many "committee" signings last summer should be looked at.

The reason kids do well under poch is that he has unequivocal faith in them. They come through playing as a group of players (some since the age of , they play for each other and with each other... and he gives them that platform to do it on the ultimate stage. He supports them, gives them the chances to learn and develop and pushes them on... Koeman says they aren't good enough and hardly uses them, supports them or gives them game time... If poch was still here, you would be seeing them in the first team and I think we'd be doing at least as well as we currently are this season. Love him (not many of us) or hate him, Poch fitted the youth development of this club down to the ground and every consecutive manager will be judged against him when it comes to youth development.

I see it pretty much like this. What Koeman is forgetting is that players like JWP and Gallagher were playing for Mopo two years ago when he got us to 8th. These players have not progressed under Koeman and arguably regressed. I like Koeman, but if he wants to stay at saints he needs to develop the kids. That is bread and butter for this club, other managers have managed it and Koeman has no excuse. Lets not forget that this is the U21 cup holders team and a lot of the star players in that u21 squad are 16 - 18 years of age... Seager is utter quality and needs to be blooded now. And gallagher was proving he could be a nuisance when he first came through under MoPo when he barely knew what to do with his gangly frame. I like Koeman, but he needs to stop all these excuses. We should have been signing a smattering of top quality players and then used the kids for depth and development. Instead we signed a load of squad fillers and some decent first team players... but no real improvements on a like for like basis. This new stance by the club of blocking the development and progression of youth players is going to rapidly undo all the good that was achieved under Adkins and MoPo.

Every other team in the league seems to have more money than Saints, that is despite the fact we are the only team to turn profits in the last 2 transfer windows, and on the back of 2 record years of TV revenues... There will be questions asked when teams like Bournemouth, Swansea, Palace and Leicester have both more ambition that us and a better ability to meet those ambitions. The board are looking utterly clueless atm and their whole club policy shows a complete lack of removal from what the fans want. Myself and many others would settle for a scrap every season with some decent attacking football and some home grown players from the academy. Instead they sign a bunch of european mercenaries as filler men and send the kids on loan. And ultimately we have crappy football where we can't even score and no kids!! I think most saints fans would be far happier with the current run of form if we were at least seeing players like Seager, Gallagher, McCartney etc in the squad... If the club aren't going to give us this then they could at least sign some real quality rather than fillers. We may have had a smaller squad last year, but we still beat Everton 3-0 with 7 U21's in the match squad.... The reason being is that the kids are pretty decent and it really means something to them when they play.... Not just about money. Either the board go out and sign a top quality striker / player for once... or they stop padding out the squad and let the kids have a crack. I think the fans are getting rapidly fed up with signing average players that block the kid's progression and don't really do it on the pitch. Don't know what Southampton Way the board bang on about, but to me its seeing the next home grown academy player on the pitch... I.e. watching Oxlade bang in those wonder goals in League 1, or watching an 18year old Luke shaw dump grant holt on his backside, or Lallana's début slalom and goal vs west brom in the championship 1-1 draw... Give us the kids, starting with Seager and Gallagher please. I'll be happy for the rest of the season if we blood the nippers and come 17th ffs.

Seager is quality, Reed and Sims disappointing, but Sims is still young so will not hold that against him. Stephens looked strong at the back. Hesketh never really impresses that much for me.

If you wanted a manager with unquestionable loyalty to the club, who would bring through and develop young players.... well, Cortese sacked him and his name was Adkins... He hasn't done a lot since but then he did get screwed over at reading and has a proper rebuilding "project" on his hands at Sheffield so maybe unfair to judge him on that yet. Fans need to wake up and accept that the dream of having 50% of the team from the academy was all Cortese, and he was getting there. Adkins really developed players like Morgan, lallana, clyne, Lambert etc and also gave the first opportunities to JWP (chances stifled since) and managed Shaw at the start also. He was replaced by Poch who took it further but as has been said many times, Adkins last 14 games and Poch's first 14 games are almost the same with regards to points return showing that Adkins and the team had adapted and turned things around. Since Adkins the club has been filled with more and more mercenaries and the loyalty within the club has diminished, starting with Nicola and Poch, then the players... Are player development has ground to a halt in relative terms and Les Reed once saying that "we don't loan out youth players" looks exactly like the hypocritical BS that it was. Fans need to ask themselves what they want from the club?!?! At the moment, Money is being made at the expense of the paying side of things (something that will remind the fans of far worse times and we were promised would not be the case at the moment). The manager is clearly irritated at the same time. Not only that, but we were told that youth players would be used for the europa campaign but instead we have seen barley anything from the kiddos this year and instead signed filler players rather than developing our own. Few of the players seem to be in it for a love of the club or the long haul, and the manager will not commit to a long term future (and I don't blame him). Is that what the fans want? If so they shouldn't moan too much. I'd rather have a loyal man at the helm who loves the club, develops the kids and fills the squad up with loyal passionate players by and large. Its no slight on Ronald as I think he has been royally stitched by the board and repeatedly had the rug pulled from under him, but ultimately, once he is gone and we have sold all our best players or those that have been here for a few seasons, then what legacy will the club have and what connection will the fans have to the team? Very little on current evidence.

Meanwhile... In a city not too far away.... Our little brother club Bournemouth (who by the way, have been penalised for violating financial fair play) are able to trounce our record transfer signing by spending £16.2m on Iturbe as a loan fee. Honestly, if that happens then the board need to seriously look at themselves, because the fans will! Not because Bournemouth have beaten our record, but because a far smaller club with a worse financial situation that us is able to go out and show some ambition. They have a great chance of finishing above us as it stands. We have had 2 summers of transfer profit, 2 seasons (plus this one) of record tv revenues.... and we should be all but guaranteed a minimum of £120m next season from tv revenue when chelsea only got £95m for winning it last year.... Where the hell is the money?

Charlie Austin - QPR Hakim Ziyech - Twente Nir Bitton - Celtic Sign them and sell wanyama and/or mane.... We would be stronger and up a few quid for the season as a whole anyway... People need to seriously ask where not just the transfer monies have gone, but also where the record tv revenues for the last few seasons are as well... Not to mention the fact that next season, the club that comes bottom get a guaranteed £120m.... Cheslsea got circa £90m-95m for winning it last season.... That is guaranteed money! Make no mistake, we had a fantastic squad last year and the best platform from which to invest since LM was in charge in the mid Eighties.... On current showing, the club have no serious ambition to achieve what they frequently state and are in serious danger of repeating the mistakes of Lowe. Not to mention the glaringly obvious comparison with Villa, a team that sold all their stars and youth players, never recovered, and who have slipped closer and closer to the trap door each year since. Sign the above 3 players and get on with it board ffs. Taking the fans for a ride unless you show some serious intent/improvement!

What we need is a rock solid quality CDM who can play possession football... That is our number 1 Need. Then we need a fast powerful striker who can finish. Then Mane's replacement when he says adios. No point getting too down beat. We will be mid table this year and that is it. Boring and stable. But we build for the future and the next batch of kids to take us onwards again. If I was shopping Prem(ish) players, I'd get bolasie, Vardy/austin and a feck off propper CDM and I would spend big on both the striker and the CDM!

I blame koeman a bit today. We were comfy first half (and should have been out of site!) Second half it was clear from 50min that we had lost the centre of midfield... But as he often does, he brings on 2 wingers in like for like changes rather than addressing the gaping hole in the middle. He needs to stop doing this imho. A shame because we gave it a good go and deserved a draw. The players worked hard but with no control in the middle we just didn't retain possession and made it very hard for ourselves. Not sure why we took off tadic or mane, and no idea why we used Gaston. We have a serious issue that we never came close to replacing Morgan. Wanyama and romeu are big lumps, and claise can tackle but is a deep lying play maker. Morgan did both... Tonight we had no possession in midfield and no creativity. And it showed second half. Trust Antonio to come back and haunt us. Anyway. Signs of progress in recent matches. It is mid table this year and we all know it anyway so there is no point getting too worked up over things. Recruitment needs to be significantly improved this summer. We should have a good chunk to spend once we sell wanyama and mane and we need to really target those funds like we did in koeman's first season! Onwards and (hopefully) upwards! Now to retreat before the wrist splitters take hold!

Long is just a beast for us. Finnaly getting a chance up top with no pelle to slow us down. This is two we should place. Solid back 8, and then long, mane and tadic. Only way to play this. Rape em on the break and with good movement and passers of the ball sitting deep. Shane long I'd our best striker tbh.

Saint86 here, after proving thastnlong was more effective than tadic for creating goals (and including tadic's penalties and assistsnin that tally) I see people have reverted to quoting his price? Perhaps people should look at tadic's cost... Or say McCormack's, or say Jordan Rhodes, or marcus bent?!?!! I mean seriously guys, long is a really strong asset for us, and he also gives his all every time unlike the Italian rasiak... And if you're still not convinced to stop slating him.... Liverpool payed 11million for heskey in 2000 or 2001... That is like 25m in today's prices. Just except you are wrong about long, no one will hold it against you. And we can save this thread as a golden one and be happy

Q E ****ing D Pelle needs to be dropped. Regardless of injury.

I think tonight vindicates my comments about playing long, mane, juanmi up front (even Martina) rather than pelle. Without pelle we are dangerous, fast tempo, great movement etc.

I really think you are missing the point tbh, koeman lost Morgan, clyne and Toby. One he was great mates with, any got him to the club in the first place and was texting all summer.... Another he was told by the board would be signing a new contract, and Morgan I think he knew was gone... The whole club knew that. So the board lost clyne and got Cedric (who I do rate) and Martina (anyone rate him?) And both are currently not as good as clyne - therefore weaker. We eventually signed VVD as a replacement for Toby, I rate him a lot but Toby is the superior defender and in any case this is a like for like switch and doesn't increase our first 11... We should also be sat here with both right now and happily using Toby as CDM aka morgan! We signed JC who I think us growing into the role a lot and his awareness and passing is top top notch... But he needs this season, especially given injuries. We also lost forster, replaced him with worse... And as above, no Morgan. Opening few months, also no RB at left back. That meant that for the start of the season, we had 1 of last year's back 5 playing and that is horrendous. Nor is it the managers fault and you can't expect him to gel a team together like last year every season..... It is obvious that we are weaker at the back, and the above changes and are weaker CM with the 2midgets (davis/claise/JWP) and wanyama does not do enough (Morgan) defensively. And this should have been Toby, wanyama and claise/davis). The other issue is attack, radix and mane especially are potent outlets, but pelle is not working atm. He also frustrates me so much, I know he has a knock but vs spurs he didn't run, he ****ed and moaned when the ball to him was perfect, we were losing and he wasn't in the box, and he lost the ball all the time or played it behind his runners and stalled the attack. It is like playing with 10men with him atm with him up front. And I think the team feel like this and it is damaging the confidence going forward. I watched the last one vs spurs, and people were moaning at the whole team... Well in my view, fonts should have stopped Kane (especially if he is gonna take a card), the second goal was a foul on Bertrand (and offside) and every player on that pitched worked there socks off except pelle. Our energy levels were good, wingers good, Davis, clasie, Bertrand etc did well... And then it got to pelle and we lost momentum and/or the ball. We were losing at had long and juanmi on, and they were in the 6 yard areas winning headers late on whilst pelle was on the far corner of the 18yard area almost outside the box... From a corner flag cross... It is a joke. The team were doing everything (even had one attack where VVD and fonte were setting each other up by the D) to score... And if we had it would have been in spite of pelle. My only gripe with pelle Is that koeman will not drop him! It has to happen when he is injured or in this form. The other problems like with board/scouting/recruitment teams. We made a profit this summer and didn't strengthen one position... And people are on here blaming koeman.... How many would quit you jobs with that level of consistent undermining.

Getting fed up with the negative bed wetting rubbish our fans are coming out with over one rough patch. I don't remember a single 8-0 or 6-1 win under loch, let alone 2 in the same season. The failing this year has been by the board and the recruitment teams, we haven't replace adequately, lost Toby when he was bloody well texting koeman all summer and didn't buy a single improvement of player quality. Everyone else around us improved. But seriously all, get over yourselves. We still beat Chelsea away, we're having an okay season so far and you have to accept that this is a rebuilding season after 2 years of complete squad refreshing. What we rebuild into is up to the recruitment and scouting team and so far their track record (without koeman's) input is shocking. But the depressive rubbish our fans are spouting on here is clap trap frankly. People forget that under loch we hardly ever won a game from behind, the craps cup sides he out out, nor how bad Tottenham were last year. Even spuds fans were calling for him out this year when they lost to Newcastle. Koeman is fine for us, just hope the board back him and I wish he would give pelle a rest and play long/juanmi for the movement.

This ^

The same obvious holes in the club remain after the summer, especially given Koeman's recent comments. The Toby fiasco really is a shame as him and VVD would have seen us done and dusted at CDM and CB. A real shame and all forward momentum that we had last summer has been given a proper stalling so far this season! No back up keeper (looking forward to Gazza proving me wrong), weak defensively in central midfield, and not enough cover in central defence - All problems that many highlighted in the summer and that the club didn't address. Ah well, looking forward to a positive result against the spuds; funny old league this season.

I agree, suspend this account immediately please!

Basically, it was there to go for... and rather than investing, Les Reed got all Sweaty palms sold the best we had left and invested in players that need to develop into their replacements over a couple of years... Instead, we should have spent a bit of dosh on 2 players from last years team and gotten a top 4 birth. Chance gone for another 2 generations like as not.