SaintTex

put me in the camp that we can't afford to have JWP and Davis on the field at the same time. They offer no offensive threat. Today, Tadic was the only player delivering the ball in front of the goal. He can't do it alone. of our 5 realistic goal scorers today; Pelle, JRod, Davis, JWP, and Tadic; only one showed up. Past history tells us that JWP and Davis are not going to score. So, only really 3 goal scorers and one of those is coming off an 18 month layoff. And Pelle just had an off day, it happens. I was keeping my fingers crossed VvD was going to create some sort of magic off a corner or set piece or we could get lucky with some sort of ricochet'd shot. NOW, the positives.. 3 clean sheets in a row. The defense is really what buoyed us last year. With Bertrand coming back, VvD in place, and our defensive midfield sorted, I think opponents are going to find goals hard to come by. It was my first time seeing VvD play and I was impressed. He looked tall and big out there, made Big Vic look relatively puny. I am liking the cut of his jib. I saw only one positional error from VvD and that was in the second half, when one of the West Brom players got the ball the box and looked to threaten, but he ended up skying it over the crossbar. (It looked like the WBrom player was offside on that play, but the flag stayed down.) and like most, I hope Clasie can be that creative spark in middle of the pitch this season when he returns. That remains to be seen, but considering his size and the physicality of the PL, it would seem that is where he would fit best. overall, a dull game, we got an away point, we got the clean sheet, we build from there.

reminds me of the early season 0-0 draw with West Brom last season. a real yawner. VvD looks to be the real deal, but West Brom really didn't ask many questions.

Lovren is going to look back on his career and recognize that he never had it better than that 1 year at Southampton.

I would really prefer to be more positive, but I don't think this could have come at a worse time for the club. these two weeks were the perfect time to get acclimated and settled to a new club/city and now he is flying off to Turkey? I know a lot of first teamers aren't on the training ground right now, but two weeks to get adjusted to his new environment and new teammates is valuable time that is now delayed. but exciting news for VvD.

The Koeman bros. seem to be enjoying it way too much, especially Irwin. they don't look to be reluctant participants.

Bertrand's injury is very frustrating. May 24th - season ends (5 weeks pass) June 26th - he has surgery (10 days pass) July 6th - Surgery news revealed. Koeman publically says he is out 5 to 6 weeks (6 weeks pass) August 15th - play Everton (4 weeks pass) Sept 12th - W. Brom. He has now missed 8 competitive games. No sign of him in training. What are we looking at here? I am not feeling confident he sees the pitch until mid October. I hope I am wrong. Also, when did the club and Bertrand know surgery was needed? Could it have been done sooner after the end of last season instead of waiting 5 weeks?

I don't know, everyone seems to be raving about JWP in the DM position last week against Norwich and he is no bruiser. If indeed, Clasie is a more of a finesse DM and cannot adapt to a CAM role, I can see any combination of Romeu, Wanyama, and Clasie as the 2 DMs depending on 1) the team we play, 2) the strategy we want to employee and the availability of any of the three (re: suspensions/injuries). So essentially, we would use the 2nd half Norwich formation/squad, except Clasie instead of JWP, VvD instead of Yoshida, and Bertrand instead of Targett ----------------Stek----------------- Cedric--Fonte--Van Dijk--Bertrand -------Romeu----------Clasie------- Mane----------JRod-----------Tadic ---------------Pelle------------------ You put Romeu on the right to help out Cedric out. Or, if you want to be more defensive, you pair up Wanyama and Romeu and move Clasie into the CAM role. (this is the one EVERYONE seem to like) ----------------Stek----------------- Cedric--Fonte--Van Dijk--Bertrand -------Romeu--------Wanyama---- Mane---------Clasie-----------Tadic ---------------Pelle------------------ or a hybrid with a very defensive back and a very offensive front, although I would worry a bit without having a dynamic central MF in this scheme to bridge between the offense and defense. (maybe in this scheme, Van Dijk is give more freedom to roam upfield centrally, as from every video I have seen of him, he feels comfortable doing). ----------------Stek----------------- Cedric--Fonte--Van Dijk--Bertrand -------Romeu--------Wanyama---- Mane---------JRod-----------Tadic ---------------Pelle------------------ my 2 cents - as us Yanks say.

at this point, it is in the best personal interest of Wanyama and the best interest of the club that he knuckles down and commits himself 100%. We should all support that. If he pouts and is vanquished from the pitch for the year, the team loses his selling value and he loses his opportunity to jump to one of the big boys come June. Les, Ralph, etc. want to sell him next summer for £20m, not £8m. Wanyama wants to play for Arsenal or Spurs, not West Brom. It's in everyone's financial and personal interest that he gets back on the pitch as soon as possible and displays his abilities. I hope no one boos him. Maybe send him out for the MK Dons game away. Go from there.

I figure any English GK prospect worth his salt would salivate going to a club in which the goalkeeping coach is also the goalkeeping coach for England. On the face, this is a good speculative signing. I figure Watson knows plenty about the kid.

I agree with all this, but I am very curious to see how Clasie would perform as the second DM playing along Wanyama or Romeu type DM. This may be a transition/training year for Clasie, but with this being Wanyama's last season, Romeu and Clasie are our future DM pairing, which really excites me. Being: Romeu is the more defensive of the DMs, rough and tumble, making the hard tackles; where Clasie is the more offensive DM, distributing, finding passing lanes, but also cutting out opponent's passes and being a general nuisance to opponents. At least this is my aspiration. Jordy is on a 5 year contract, Romeu is on a 3 year. Time to look into extend Romeu's contract today? Lulz. So that is DM -- So now, the back 4. I am feeling good about Cedric, he has good instincts. The defensive part of the game can be taught. Then, you have Fonte which really our only worries at this point is age. Assuming Van Dijk, I have to hope he is everything we are looking for. Bertrand, again. we know what we have there. Cedric and Bertrand essentially on 4 year contracts, Van Dijk most likely at least 4 years, and Fonte has got 2 years left. Attacking MF/Forwards JRod on a 5 year, Tadic 3 years left, Mane is gone after this season. Juanmi is on a 4 year and I am betting is going to take Mane's place next season, not so much his role, but his place in the starting XI. to be honest, I am not sure where Davis' or JWP's futures lie in this club. Strikers,Pelle is in form, but he has 2 years left on his contract. I would be curious as to what the club has planned this summer with him. Long has 3 years left on his contract. Goalkeeping - would be nice to sign Stek. Forster I think is quality and when fit is likely better than Stek, but no guarantees with Forster's knee at this point) So, Next summer will have about £50 million to use with the Wanyama and Mane selling. I think all in we are in pretty good shape. It's been a rough start. we didn't handle Europa well. We lost some very key players, we have had key injuries, looks like we will have some late signing(s), but over all I think things are going to be fine.

This. We need a sound defensive platform for the offense tick. We got the benefit of the 2 yellows, which took the pressure off the defense, which in turn freed up the offense. It won't always be that easy. as many have said, we get VvD over the line, get Bertrand back on the pitch and Clasie in the midfield that defensive platform will be sound. I am as upset as anyone about the Wanyama situation (and if he really didn't have a stomach issue last Thursday then he really screwed up our Europa dreams) but we need him on the team. I think a Romeu/Wanyama paired with Clasie can work really well in a 4-2-3-1. However, Romeu's style of play will lend to knocks and suspensions. We need two physical DMs - Clasie, Davis, Reed are not. We need Wanyama. Really can't let him or Mane go at the point. the American broadcast was really playing up the Mane issue - it is like they had some vested interest in his head being turned to Man U.

tadic looking bright. On the left, where he should always be playing.

generally good results today.. with a win tomorrow, we could crack Top 10 then again, if we lose...18th

this whole 3 CB business has a lot to do with our FB situation right now. We are missing the considerable skills that Bertrand and Clyne bring to the pitch and what Southampton usually expects from a FB. A lot more than I thought we would. Give me a second to defend Koeman a bit here. He is in quite a bind - personnel wise. I think he really would like to play a 4 DB/2DM formation, but is limited. It's become obvious Soares, Targett, and Martina are all defensive liabilities, which puts extreme pressure on your two CBs. We have one very good CB and two very average CBs. It all falls apart. See Newcastle/Everton. So what do you do? Ironically, the 3 CBs at our disposal are all better defensively than the FBs we have available, so you get them on the pitch. So, you got 3 at the back and you take Cedric and Targett and put them on the wings. Now Cedric I think is up to the task, the problem is Targett is not. (I really thought Cedric should have started today.) That formation also lends itself to having 1 DM, which just so happens is all we really had available to us today. So, I get why Koeman went with this formation. Yes, one could argue that 4-2-3-1 is what is comfortable, but Targett and Soares are left exposed, Fonte and a Yoshida/Caulker pairing doesn't exactly fill you with confidence and then you most likely be forced to start Reed with Romeu. I know there are a lot of Reed supporters who think he would be up to the task. For whatever reason, Koeman does not. that leaves 4 players "attacking". JRod is not up to form, Tadic is an enigma, Mane is injured, These 3 items combined are the theme of the season so far. 01) Injuries - come on, we have been so unlucky 02) the usual summer defections have hurt 03) having important games (Europa) before the transfer window closes. Don't have the squad you want, players you do have are distracted. Koeman would love to play the 4-2-3-1. He just hasn't had the players to do effectively do it this season. -------------------Stek------------------------- --Cedric-----Fonte-----VvD-------Bertrand-- -----(Wanyama/Romeu)--- Clasie------------ (Mane/Juanmi) - (Davis/JWP) - (Jrod/Tadic) ----------------(Pelle/Long)-------------------- would love to find an AM to replace (Davis/JWP). I felt we gave up on Djuricic too quickly. I think Cedric can be an effective starting LB, but only if we have the rest of our defense and MF shored up, ie:(Wanyama, Clasie, and Bertrand healthy and VvD in the fold) So, I don't necessarily take a major issue with the formation today (though with a full squad I would advocate a 4-2-3-1), but would have preferred Cedric for Martina and Juanmi for Davis and Davis for Targett. -----------Stek--------- Yoshida-Fonte-Caulker Cedric - Romeu - Davis --Juanmi--JWP--JRod-- ----------Pelle---------- tldr: We miss Clyne and Bertrand tremendously.

You could argue 8 of last years starting 11. Tadic would have started, but he is carrying some mystery injury. Forster Clyne - Fonte - Alderweireld - Bertrand Wanyama - Morgan Mane - Davis - Tadic Pelle

It's not all that shocking of a line up once you realize the squad available to us. I basically called it. --------------Stek---------------- ----Yoshida--Fonte--Caulker---- Martina------Romeu------Targett ----Davis-----JWP-----JRod---- --------------Pelle---------------- Although, I think Cedric would be a better choice for Martina and I would like to get Juanmi in there for Davis for a bit more firepower. COYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wanyama being out throws a wrench in formation. Do we start Reed or Davis as a 2nd DM? Can we go it alone with one holding DM (Romeu)? Should we? If so, what is the optimum formation? If we are "going for it" is a 3-3-3-1 the way to go, considering what we need and the personnel available? --------------Stek---------------- ----Yoshida--Fonte--Caulker---- Cedric------Romeu------Targett ----Juanmi-----JWP-----JRod---- --------------Pelle---------------- (assumes Wanyama, Tadic, and Mane are not available) or do we go 4–1–3–2? It is pretty aggressive in attack and Koeman has always been hesitant to pair up Pelle. If you go with this, I think you take Cedric out and put Yoshida in at RB. ----------------Stek--------------- Yoshida--Fonte--Caulker--Targett --------------Romeu--------------- ---Juanmi-------JWP-----Davis--- -----------Pelle-----JRod---------- (assumes Wanyama, Tadic, and Mane are not available) Regardless, I think we need JWP and Caulker on the pitch so that we give ourselves a chance with a set piece as it may come to that if we are struggling in a 0-0 game. We need a goal. one goal. I do like our chances. 0-1 we advance 0-2 we advance 1-2 we advance 2-2 we advance Best scenario: We score an early goal. That forces FC Midtjylland to have to go at us, we counter with a second goal. Game over. They would then have to score 3 goals to advance.

3 good responses. While I agree that it is alarming the amount of turnover we have had, it is not the board's fault, but the very nature of modern football. Every single player we lost these past 2 years (but would have loved to have retained) went to a traditional big club that will pay 2 to 3 times the wages - wages we cannot afford to pay. We have been a victim of our own success. The board has fostered this success as is there is obvious quality in the club from top to bottom. The ManU's and Liverpool's of the world are not plucking players from Newcastle, West Brom and Sunderland. If we were poor, no one would even take notice of us. We will always be in a constant state of recovery (if we maintain our general quality), but the only recovery that is going to occur is to maintain mid-table status. Last year we got to 7th, this year could be 12th, the next year we may inch up to 8th, the following year back down to 13th. The best players will be plucked from the team whenever we threaten the Top 6. The best players understandably will willingly go, and we will fall back. There is a ceiling in this league for clubs like ours (look at the final table for the last 2 decades) and it will be not be allowed to be broken. There is not much "the board" can do about it.

Nail meet head. When the strategy is that we need two very defensive DMs to help our back 4, we lose all opportunity in attack. You have essentially fielded 7 players who by design are not looking to score during the course of play. I keep thinking our best 11 includes Clasie, Wanyama and Romeu on the pitch, but I am starting to rethink that. If we can get our back 4 sorted (VvD), we probably need only Wanyama or Romeu on the pitch with Clasie, which would then free up a slot for some more creative options; ie: Tadic. (as frustrating as he is, he is our most creative player). Plus, between Wanyama and Romeu, they are going to be suspended a lot, so there will be some unavailability there at times. Also if we get into the group stage, there will be more games to share between them. So, I am thinking like more like: --------------Stek-------------- Soares--Fonte--VvD--Bertrand ------Wanyama----Clasie------ -Mane-----Tadic---Rodriquez-- ------------Pelle----------------- or --------------Stek-------------- Soares--Fonte--VvD--Bertrand -------Romeu----Clasie-------- -Mane-----Tadic---Rodriquez-- ------------Pelle-----------------

01) This game reminded me a lot of the 2nd game of last season against West Brom that ended 0-0 draw. toothless, dull, anemic. I remember having a sinking feeling after that game that we were in for a rough season (not to mention the dreadful first half against West Ham the following match.) We went on an incredible run after that.. wishful thinking I suppose. 02) interestingly, we didn't have a second draw of the season until the 12th match of the season. Doesn't mean much really, just interesting. 03) When I saw the lineup announced, 0-0 seems to be what the obvious result would be today. 04) that being said, I like the formation but not with the squad we have available at the moment. Would look a lot better with these players. ------------------Stek-------------------- Cedric--Fonte--VvD--Caulker--Bertrand --------Wanyama----Romeu------------- -----------------Clasie-------------------- ----Mane--------Pelle------------Tadic--- Tadic/Bertrand is a proven matchup. Mane is Mane. Pelle is Pelle. Cedric can provide good crosses. Hopefully, Clasie can distribute. I like Caulker's presence on set pieces in front of the opponent's goal. I think the Wanyama/Romeu pairing will work, but they are going to be suspended on yellows a lot! Need to coordinate their suspensions. my 2 cents.. as us Yanks say.

15 minutes of highlights.. didn't see the game, but it looks like we had our chances. No way Caulker's goal should have been disallowed.

this. Will be almost zero width with this line-up. JWP is going to need to step up big time as he is going to be the main distributor of the ball - Looks like most everything will be going through the middle.

Chips without mayonnaise is not chips.

more like... -------------------Boruc-------------------- --Clyne - Lovren - Alderweireld - Shaw-- --------Cork-------------Schneiderlin------ Lallana--Oxlaide-Chamberlain--Puncheon ----------------Lambert--------------------