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Thread: Smacking children

  1. #1

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    Default Smacking children

    It's been illegal for many years here in Norway, looks like Scotland is following suit.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49908849



    What do you think?

    Ridiculous that we can hit children if we don't like their behaviour, but adults are protected by law?
    It's been shown time and again that children can be raised with discipline without using physical punishment, so using it is unnecessary

    Smacking is a harmless and effective tool to correct children's behaviour?
    This criminalises good parents for trying to teach their children discipline?

    We should be allowed to hit who we like to correct their behaviour, regardless of age?

    Extra points for the first people to use either the word "barbaric" or the phrase "it never did me any harm".

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwaysaint View Post
    It's been illegal for many years here in Norway, looks like Scotland is following suit.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49908849



    What do you think?

    Ridiculous that we can hit children if we don't like their behaviour, but adults are protected by law?
    It's been shown time and again that children can be raised with discipline without using physical punishment, so using it is unnecessary

    Smacking is a harmless and effective tool to correct children's behaviour?
    This criminalises good parents for trying to teach their children discipline?

    We should be allowed to hit who we like to correct their behaviour, regardless of age?

    Extra points for the first people to use either the word "barbaric" or the phrase "it never did me any harm".

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwaysaint View Post
    It's been illegal for many years here in Norway, looks like Scotland is following suit.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49908849



    What do you think?

    Ridiculous that we can hit children if we don't like their behaviour, but adults are protected by law?
    It's been shown time and again that children can be raised with discipline without using physical punishment, so using it is unnecessary

    Smacking is a harmless and effective tool to correct children's behaviour?
    This criminalises good parents for trying to teach their children discipline?

    We should be allowed to hit who we like to correct their behaviour, regardless of age?

    Extra points for the first people to use either the word "barbaric" or the phrase "it never did me any harm".
    I don't hit colleagues, mates, family, or anyone when they don't comply / need to learn, so wouldn't dream of hitting a child in those (or any) situations. It's obvious that nobody should hit a child and I can't imagine a credible argument for doing so.

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    I don’t think you’ll get much debate now, whereas ten years ago you would have done. Time has moved on and left it behind thankfully

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    I don't think anyone should be hitting children but I do think this should be looked at on a case by case basis when these incidents occur. It could for example be parents who have been taught that this behaviour is acceptable and so they may require education on the matter rather than immediate punishment. I have a lot of experience with loving parents doing what they think is best for their child but actually causing them harm in the process.

    As long as it is handled sensibly then I have no problem with a change in the law.

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    The cat o nine tails (the martinet) and belt #neverdidmeanyharm

    Just as if, not more, important than its form is that any punishment is applied consistently and the reasons for it are explained in full. Nothing worse than a parent losing their rag whatever the form of discipline.
    Last edited by shurlock; 03-10-2019 at 09:02 AM.

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    These days it's normally the children hitting the adults at least if the fat lip, broken glasses and bruises my teacher wife has come home from work with are anything to go by.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

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    I would never lay a hand on my daughter. Why, as a grown man, would I want to hit a child?

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    Smoking is a disgusting habit and it’s quite right that children aren’t allowed to do it.

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    Whelk seems quite violent, I wonder what he thinks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dig Dig View Post
    I would never lay a hand on my daughter. Why, as a grown man, would I want to hit a child?
    Not everyone has children who are as well behaved, compliant and understanding of the consquences of bad actions.
    I don't have kids and never will, but I was smacked on the arse as a child before I properly understood the consequences of my actions beyond the next 5 minutes.
    People seem to have forgotten that a smacked arse is meant to sting for a few seconds and that's it.

    At the end of the day, no-one knows that child and what they respond to better than it's parents.
    Last edited by Saint_clark; 03-10-2019 at 03:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Whelk seems quite violent, I wonder what he thinks.
    He also criticises people who think that babies dying is sad, so if you combine those two elements I can imagine which way he thinks this conversation should go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_clark View Post
    Not everyone has children who are as well believed, compliant and understanding of the consquences of bad actions.
    I don't have kids and never will, but I was smacked on the arse as a child before I properly understood the consequences of my actions beyond the next 5 minutes.
    People seem to have forgotten that a smacked arse is meant to sting for a few seconds and that's it.

    At the end of the day, no-one knows that child and what they respond to better than it's parents.
    Hmm I'm not sure about that. In my, extensive experience very frequently parents do not know what is best for their children. Out of interest, is it your own choice not to have children?

  14. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Hmm I'm not sure about that. In my, extensive experience very frequently parents do not know what is best for their children. Out of interest, is it your own choice not to have children?
    Entirely my choice, myself and my partner both have zero interest in having children. Much prefer to live our lives in just each others company doing exactly what we want to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_clark View Post
    Not everyone has children who are as well believed, compliant and understanding of the consquences of bad actions.
    I don't have kids and never will, but I was smacked on the arse as a child before I properly understood the consequences of my actions beyond the next 5 minutes.
    People seem to have forgotten that a smacked arse is meant to sting for a few seconds and that's it.

    At the end of the day, no-one knows that child and what they respond to better than it's parents.
    How do you feel about the fact that whole nations manage to do the same thing without the smacking? The same lessons learned, but taught other ways.

  16. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by norwaysaint View Post
    How do you feel about the fact that whole nations manage to do the same thing without the smacking? The same lessons learned, but taught other ways.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mo...-monsters.html

    A best-selling Swedish academic has concluded that permissive parenting is creating a generation of arrogant young adults who lack social empathy, personal resilience and, after a childhood of pampering, are destined to be bitterly disappointed in life.
    I like this quote;

    “What strikes me as the most disturbing feature of Swedish society is the voluntary abdication of adult authority,” says Frank Furedi, Emeritus Professor of Sociology at the University of Kent and author of Paranoid Parenting. “It began with stigmatising the punishment of children and mutated into a fear of disciplining them, which is what parents are supposed to do. The area for concern isn’t what happens to them as children, but what happens to them as they grow up.”
    Last edited by Saint_clark; 03-10-2019 at 03:49 PM.

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    You know that's not scientific evidence, right? Just someone's opinion? I've been hearing the older generation say similar all my life. I'll be fifty next year and I heard it said about my generation.
    Also, not smacking children does not mean the same as permissive parenting. Lots of us have raised our children with strict ideas of right and wrong, good manners, hard work ethics etc without needing to hit them to teach them that. You're muddling two different issues.

  18. #18

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    Slapping women was also acceptable not so long ago [below, Sean Connery approves]. Not sure the state needs to get involved though if society is moving away from the slap in any case, which it is.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo0d1zTAFKA

  19. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by norwaysaint View Post
    You know that's not scientific evidence, right? Just someone's opinion? I've been hearing the older generation say similar all my life. I'll be fifty next year and I heard it said about my generation.
    Also, not smacking children does not mean the same as permissive parenting. Lots of us have raised our children with strict ideas of right and wrong, good manners, hard work ethics etc without needing to hit them to teach them that. You're muddling two different issues.
    Well we'll find out how it affects peoples emotional growth over the next decade I suppose as those who have grown up in the recent culture change reach working age. I personally foresee a lot more obnoxious, entitled young people and rampant mental health issues brought on by an unrealistic expectation of how easy it's going to be to get what you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_clark View Post
    I personally foresee a lot more obnoxious, entitled young people and rampant mental health issues brought on by an unrealistic expectation of how easy it's going to be to get what you want.
    And that could all have been prevented by giving them a good whack?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_clark View Post
    But it's a bit of a leap to go from outlawing physical violence to outlawing any punishments entirely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_clark View Post
    Well we'll find out how it affects peoples emotional growth over the next decade I suppose as those who have grown up in the recent culture change reach working age. I personally foresee a lot more obnoxious, entitled young people and rampant mental health issues brought on by an unrealistic expectation of how easy it's going to be to get what you want.
    I absolutely agree that those sort of people exist, I just don't think that the presence or absence of smacking has an effect on that. Helicopter parenting and never allowing children to be independent or ever fight their own battles leads to the sort of thing but I fail to see why smacking has to be a factor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_clark View Post
    Well we'll find out how it affects peoples emotional growth over the next decade I suppose as those who have grown up in the recent culture change reach working age. I personally foresee a lot more obnoxious, entitled young people and rampant mental health issues brought on by an unrealistic expectation of how easy it's going to be to get what you want.
    Again, you are confusing not hitting children with being permissive. There are other ways to teach people than hitting them. I'm neither permissive in my workplace, nor as a parent, but I've never needed to hit anyone to help them understand acceptable behaviour.

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    Also, smacking children has been illegal in Norway since 1987, thirty years ago, so that generation that you are talking about includes most Norwegians you might have met. I have to say, they don't seem to be these rampantly obnoxious people you are worried about, so that's nice isn't it ��

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    Love my kids with all my heart but I have smacked them in the past. Not proud of it, wish I hadnít. When I did, it was because one has hurt the other, but thatís no excuse.
    My dad smacked the **** out of me, hopefully he regrets it but I donít hold it against him.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plastic View Post
    Love my kids with all my heart but I have smacked them in the past. Not proud of it, wish I hadn’t. When I did, it was because one has hurt the other, but that’s no excuse.
    My dad smacked the **** out of me, hopefully he regrets it but I don’t hold it against him.
    I think that there is an age when smacking has its role as long as it is controlled and with an open hand. What age that ends should be the debate.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Whelk seems quite violent, I wonder what he thinks.
    First thing I do when I come home is smack the kids. Toughens them up

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    He also criticises people who think that babies dying is sad, so if you combine those two elements I can imagine which way he thinks this conversation should go.
    Just pretentious fckers like you. Hurts you I know but have your number sunshine.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by egg View Post
    I don't hit colleagues, mates, family, or anyone when they don't comply / need to learn, so wouldn't dream of hitting a child in those (or any) situations. It's obvious that nobody should hit a child and I can't imagine a credible argument for doing so.
    Smacking isnít hitting. What a trite comparison.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dig Dig View Post
    I would never lay a hand on my daughter. Why, as a grown man, would I want to hit a child?
    She will have daddy issues if you never hug her

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    First thing I do when I come home is smack the kids. Toughens them up
    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Just pretentious fckers like you. Hurts you I know but have your number sunshine.
    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Smacking isn’t hitting. What a trite comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    She will have daddy issues if you never hug her

    Are you feeling lonely? Do you need some attention? Perhaps you'd like to expand on your only close attempt at a relevant answer, seeing as this is the lounge? Do you see how many would disagree and say that smacking is indeed in the same class as hitting and that's why it has been banned for the same reasons in countries that do not allow parents or other adults to hit children to correct their behaviour. How hard a smack can be and how damaging/painful is down to the person delivering the blow. It's way too much of a grey area to be separated out as an okay type of hitting.

    Interestingly the supreme court here at one point decided to alter the law towards your point of view and made an exception for light smacking, but it was repealed soon after and included in the ban again. Of course there are always grey areas. The only way to end that is a ban on striking children altogether. Norwegians under the age of forty have pretty much grown up with no smacking and they seem to be proof that it was never really necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergei Gotsmanov View Post
    I think that there is an age when smacking has its role as long as it is controlled and with an open hand. What age that ends should be the debate.
    Erm no.

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwaysaint View Post
    Are you feeling lonely? Do you need some attention? Perhaps you'd like to expand on your only close attempt at a relevant answer, seeing as this is the lounge? Do you see how many would disagree and say that smacking is indeed in the same class as hitting and that's why it has been banned for the same reasons in countries that do not allow parents or other adults to hit children to correct their behaviour. How hard a smack can be and how damaging/painful is down to the person delivering the blow. It's way too much of a grey area to be separated out as an okay type of hitting.

    Interestingly the supreme court here at one point decided to alter the law towards your point of view and made an exception for light smacking, but it was repealed soon after and included in the ban again. Of course there are always grey areas. The only way to end that is a ban on striking children altogether. Norwegians under the age of forty have pretty much grown up with no smacking and they seem to be proof that it was never really necessary.
    Arenít you suicidal living in Norway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwaysaint View Post
    Also, smacking children has been illegal in Norway since 1987, thirty years ago, so that generation that you are talking about includes most Norwegians you might have met. I have to say, they don't seem to be these rampantly obnoxious people you are worried about, so that's nice isn't it ��
    I love the fact that its popular among Nordic parent to leave their kids outdoors in -5 degrees centigrade (or colder) for a nap in the middle of winter. I imagine in this country if you left your kid in the back garden for a sleep in the middle of a snowy winters day someone would report you to social services for child cruelty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    First thing I do when I come home is smack the kids. Toughens them up
    The Spartan way of parenting?


  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwaysaint View Post
    Are you feeling lonely? Do you need some attention? Perhaps you'd like to expand on your only close attempt at a relevant answer, seeing as this is the lounge? Do you see how many would disagree and say that smacking is indeed in the same class as hitting and that's why it has been banned for the same reasons in countries that do not allow parents or other adults to hit children to correct their behaviour. How hard a smack can be and how damaging/painful is down to the person delivering the blow. It's way too much of a grey area to be separated out as an okay type of hitting.

    Interestingly the supreme court here at one point decided to alter the law towards your point of view and made an exception for light smacking, but it was repealed soon after and included in the ban again. Of course there are always grey areas. The only way to end that is a ban on striking children altogether. Norwegians under the age of forty have pretty much grown up with no smacking and they seem to be proof that it was never really necessary.
    Mate, I wouldn't bother, he's losing it.

    He used to be a half decent poster but he's just turned embittered after losing numerous debates, and he has no way to answer the rather questionable opinions he's espoused on those threads.

    He needs a change of username, and a fresh start.

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Erm no.
    You bring your children up how you want and I have brought mine up how I think is right but I think you should tread very carefully harnessing the state to legislate in a one size fits all way. It is an important right to raise your children how you think fit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Smacking isnít hitting. What a trite comparison.
    What the f*ck! Are you for real or just some Internet caricature? Smacking someone is hitting them.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Mate, I wouldn't bother, he's losing it.

    He used to be a half decent poster but he's just turned embittered after losing numerous debates, and he has no way to answer the rather questionable opinions he's espoused on those threads.

    He needs a change of username, and a fresh start.
    You got such a good read on people itís staggering, You go looking for bonding with other sad saps who slag me off. Bless your heart although this obsession must stop. Iím sorry I turned down our date offer.I didnít realise how much it would hurt you.

    I think this place means a lot more to you than me. ĎLosing debatesí? I call it mocking thick fckers
    Last edited by whelk; 03-10-2019 at 10:52 PM.

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by egg View Post
    What the f*ck! Are you for real or just some Internet caricature? Smacking someone is hitting them.
    Whatís an internet caricature?

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Whatís an internet caricature?
    I'll take that response as a "yes".

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Mate, I wouldn't bother, he's losing it.

    He used to be a half decent poster but he's just turned embittered after losing numerous debates, and he has no way to answer the rather questionable opinions he's espoused on those threads.

    He needs a change of username, and a fresh start.
    Bitter is right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergei Gotsmanov View Post
    You bring your children up how you want and I have brought mine up how I think is right but I think you should tread very carefully harnessing the state to legislate in a one size fits all way. It is an important right to raise your children how you think fit.
    And I said as such above. I don't support legislation against smacking but I certainly don't condone it in this day and age when we know so much more about child development. Discussing how exactly to smack your child is just bizarre. There are so many effective methods of discipline that don't involve physical violence, how about we focus on those rather than if we should be smacking our children with open or closed palms?
    Last edited by hypochondriac; 04-10-2019 at 01:16 AM.

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    You got such a good read on people it’s staggering, You go looking for bonding with other sad saps who slag me off. Bless your heart although this obsession must stop. I’m sorry I turned down our date offer.I didn’t realise how much it would hurt you.

    I think this place means a lot more to you than me. ‘Losing debates’? I call it mocking thick fckers
    Well, maybe you should think about your posting style, as a lot of people have the wrong read on you by the sound of things.

    It doesn't really come across as "mocking thick ****ers" if you get taken to the cleaners by said "thick ****ers". You just end up looking a bit stupid?

    Look, I'd prefer that you continue to follow me around and get angry on here, rather than you take it out on your missus and kids, so carry on as you need to, but I really think you need to stop getting so angry.

    If you need to chat, the offers always there.
    Last edited by Unbelievable Jeff; 04-10-2019 at 07:54 AM.

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    And I said as such above. I don't support legislation against smacking but I certainly don't condone it in this day and age when we know so much more about child development. Discussing how exactly to smack your child is just bizarre. There are so many effective methods of discipline that don't involve physical violence, how about we focus on those rather than if we should be smacking our children with open or closed palms?
    Isn't smacking with closed palms effectively punching a child?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Isn't smacking with closed palms effectively punching a child?
    Yes. Open palm (slap) or closed palm (fist) are two ways of hitting someone, but the latter is surely be a punch.

    In any event, I'm staggered by the suggestion above that there's a threshold beyond which it's considered acceptable to hit/smack/slap any child of any age. If someone would deal with a situation in life with another adult or the child of another without a hit/smack/slap, I need to understand on what basis they would feel the need hit/smack/slap their own child and why they would feel that necessary or justified. The "I can raise my child how I like" argument isn't an answer, just an excuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egg View Post
    Yes. Open palm (slap) or closed palm (fist) are two ways of hitting someone, but the latter is surely be a punch.

    In any event, I'm staggered by the suggestion above that there's a threshold beyond which it's considered acceptable to hit/smack/slap any child of any age. If someone would deal with a situation in life with another adult or the child of another without a hit/smack/slap, I need to understand on what basis they would feel the need hit/smack/slap their own child and why they would feel that necessary or justified. The "I can raise my child how I like" argument isn't an answer, just an excuse.
    Indeed. We also know that there are more effective parenting methods that correct or control behaviour that isn't the fear of pain or violence. If smacking were the only way to instill discipline, self control and correct behaviour then smacking would be more justifiable but it isn't.

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Indeed. We also know that there are more effective parenting methods that correct or control behaviour that isn't the fear of pain or violence. If smacking were the only way to instill discipline, self control and correct behaviour then smacking would be more justifiable but it isn't.
    One of my children is currently sat in his room, on his own, and will be for a lot of this morning, because he wouldn't come into the church to see my daughter sing in the Harvest Festival. However annoyed that has made me, I would never smack him for it.

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    And I said as such above. I don't support legislation against smacking but I certainly don't condone it in this day and age when we know so much more about child development. Discussing how exactly to smack your child is just bizarre. There are so many effective methods of discipline that don't involve physical violence, how about we focus on those rather than if we should be smacking our children with open or closed palms?
    If you are debating smacking then I would suggest that defining smacking is the starting point to any discussion would you not think? The important element to be aligned on is that you want the best for your children.

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    Do we think that adults should be struck for misbehaving or to learn a lesson? If not, why is that different?

    Most of us would agree that a society where adults are beaten as a legal punishment is a little primitive or barbaric (damn, I used it first) and we tend to look down on Arab/African/Asian countries where these practices might take place. At the same time though, we might see a woman slap a man for inappropriate behaviour and say "He deserved it".

    Personally I do prefer to have legislation making it illegal to hit anyone else, except in self defence. I'm not sure why an exception should be made to allow us to hit the smallest and most vulnerable. I think people tend to have different opinions about what a harmless smack means. I think there's also a problem with giving the message that striking someone is an effective way to demonstrate that you are in the right or that that's how to solve a dispute. We'd have trouble supporting that theory anywhere else in our lives.

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